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Thursday, April 24, 2008
The politics of obliteration

Initially, the emails that I received about last week's ABC News debate and my pointed criticism of it were running about 90 percent favorable -- that changed slightly as my words bounced across conservative talk radio and the editorial page of Rupert Murdoch's Wall Street Journal.The naysayers said those who complained were merely mad that Obama was asked "tough questions," and as for issues like the health care or educaton, well, there's no difference and they've been asked about those a million times.

Really? It seems to me there's a lot of issues that have never been asked, not even in 21 debates. This week, the New York Times raised a significant question that I guarantee you will never, ever become part of the 2008 presidential campaign, even though it speaks to the essence of life in America today:

The United States has less than 5 percent of the world’s population. But it has almost a quarter of the world’s prisoners.

Indeed, the United States leads the world in producing prisoners, a reflection of a relatively recent and now entirely distinctive American approach to crime and punishment. Americans are locked up for crimes — from writing bad checks to using drugs — that would rarely produce prison sentences in other countries. And in particular they are kept incarcerated far longer than prisoners in other nations.

Criminologists and legal scholars in other industrialized nations say they are mystified and appalled by the number and length of American prison sentences.

It's a slam dunk to criticize the media for not making this issue -- which has become a fact of life and not even a topic of political discussion in America -- part of the campaign, but to be honest the problem runs deeper than that. It's a problem with a political candidates, in both parties, and our entire system.

Do you think a question about reducing prison populations would get a useful answer from any of the three remaining candidates? Based on how they're dealing with other issues, the only acceptible political answer is avoid suggesting you might want to release anybody from prison -- EVER. Because no matter what the political question might be in 2008, the correct answer is always going to be the least-nuanced, or most hard-core, the one that requires the least thought and the least sacrifice.

Taxes? Cut 'em.

High gas prices, caused in part by rising demand? A gas tax holiday (keeping demand high).

Iran? "Obliterate" them.

People who say controversial things? Reject and denounce them.

Flag pins? Wear 'em...or pay the penalty.

That's what politics is these days -- who can obiliterate, reject and denounce the most, the fastest, the harshest, whether it's taxes, foreign nations, or those who violate the law. Gail Collins was right on the money with this about the two Dems:

If you want to worry about something, worry about the way both of them have been pandering themselves over the edge. There was the dreaded read-my-lips, no-new-middle-class-taxes pledge during the Pennsylvania debate. Then Hillary tried to demonstrate her toughness by announcing she would “obliterate” Iran if it messed with Israel. And when it comes to political piñatas, we’ll always have Nafta. They both went into the tank on agricultural issues back in Iowa, so heaven knows what they’re saving for Indiana. Mandatory use of corn in highway paving materials?

I do think why one of the few things in this race that received mostly praise was Obama's Philadelphia speech on race, because it actually addressed painful subjects, and because it actually chose nuance over obliteration. But we make look back on that as an oddity, a one-off.

Because everywhere else, honesty and nunance have already been obliterated.

Posted by Will Bunch @ 12:16 PM  Permalink | 35 comments
Comments   
Posted 12:29 PM, 04/24/2008
didderbops
It's ridiculous to say that the candidates have been asked the questions before so there is no reason to ask them again. A) This is a debate for the Pennsylvania primary, so many people in the state who might not have been paying attention prior would like to know now their positions. The debate is not for the pundits, it's supposed to be for the voters. B) This also assumes the candidates' positions are static and don't change or evolve. Maybe they've changed their views since the first debate a year ago? This is just further evidence of how elitist the media has become. Which is why they criticized Obama for "Bittergate". The media decides what the people think, not Obama. He's infringing on their turf.
Posted 12:29 PM, 04/24/2008
didderbops
It's ridiculous to say that the candidates have been asked the questions before so there is no reason to ask them again. A) This is a debate for the Pennsylvania primary, so many people in the state who might not have been paying attention prior would like to know now their positions. The debate is not for the pundits, it's supposed to be for the voters. B) This also assumes the candidates' positions are static and don't change or evolve. Maybe they've changed their views since the first debate a year ago? This is just further evidence of how elitist the media has become. Which is why they criticized Obama for "Bittergate". The media decides what the people think, not Obama. He's infringing on their turf.
Posted 12:30 PM, 04/24/2008
Politburo
BTW.. the system isn't broken, it just changed without notice. If there are more than 5 comments, there is a 'view all comments' link at the top right of the comments section.
Posted 12:51 PM, 04/24/2008
MontcoKevin
Will, how could we hope to run this country without a permanent underclass? Criminalizing a section of the population provides not only a coolie labor pool, but a strawman with which to frighten the remaining population into submission. And the best part is, since the overwhelming majority of this underclass is Black, they are easy to identify when you see them on the street! You can thank Richard Nixon's War on Drugs for the fantastic expansion of this very expensive anti-social program. Those uppity Negroes thought they got themselves the vote in the 60's, only to have it taken away again by the criminalization of their race. There are currently more Afican-American males in prison than in college in America, which is great if you think it's better to spend all that money training professional criminals and dishwashers instead of accountants, teachers and engineers. Interesting, too, is the prevailing attitude that you can't fix the schools by throwing money at them, but you can fix all of America's social problems by throwing money at the justice/prison system. We are so screwed.
Posted 01:05 PM, 04/24/2008
SteveMG
Darn thing is we are releasing prisoners because of overcrowding. Until crime is really rejected by people, this is the way it's going to be. Witnesses don't come forward, neighbors tolerate the dealers, parents don't control or educate their children. I'm tired of hearing about poverty, because a lot of the criminals aren't impoverished, and in most cases, the criminals are making more money than they would if they had jobs. All of the guys but one who work in my factory have been in jail. Two of them have been arrested during the time they worked for me. In the neighborhood around me, nobody cares anymore. The cops just chase people off of Kensington Ave, the neighbors just walk right by the dealers. What are the kids in the neighborhood supposed to think?
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Posted 01:57 PM, 04/24/2008
Talking point sleuth
An important aspect of this issue is the for-profit prison system. More political shenanigans taking place - at the behest of those with vested interests, this time companies that run prisons. There was an interesting article in a recent New Yorker about a for-profit prison company that previously lost contracts because of their failure to do the job properly but somehow managed to land a huge contract running prisons for aliens seeking asylum. Kids kept in cells away from their parents, given something line one hour's worth of education daily, not provided with educational materials. And the government colludes with the prisons to create a system with little oversight and no transparency. But, you know, we need to lock up even more people, as the brilliant commenter above suggests. After all, it's clear that in countries that lock up fewer people, crime is rampant. Take Japan. In Japan....oh....wait....nevermind.
Posted 02:24 PM, 04/24/2008
E.Plebnista
Yes, Xi Jah, you do have the one report from the DOJ to fall back on. Of course, the US still imposes the death penalty (which Britain does not) yet our murder rate is nearly six times that of Great Britain. So, it's not as simple as "tougher sentences reduce crime." And we are, of course, left to wonder what's gone on over the past 12 years...
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Posted 03:27 PM, 04/24/2008
MontcoKevin
Xi Jah...You never break laws? You never drive over 25 MPH in the city or 55 on the highway? Never cross the street in the middle of the block? Never poured a glass of wine for a minor at dinner? Always paid the Social Security tax on money you made mowing lawns? We ALL break laws and then rationalize it as "harmless" whenever we deem it necessary or when we feel the law is unfair or following it is too inconvenient. Plenty of people are in prison just for the crime of being in the wrong place at the wrong time, too. Don't be so certain that it will not happen to you or one of your family members one day.
Posted 03:36 PM, 04/24/2008
RG
I have questions but no answers. I beleive our recidivism rates are much higher than most industrialized nations as well. Leads me to think that we are doing an extremely poor job at rehabilitation (if possible). I've ready studies and opinions that liken our prison system to a "criminal university". In other words, an offender is sent to prison and instead of becoming a better citizen and learning from their mistake, they learn how to commit other crimes and refine their own routines.
Posted 03:47 PM, 04/24/2008
montani semper liberi
"they quoted criminologists who say its irrefutable that tougher sentencing reduces crime".............No doubt; there are experts that take opposing sides on every controversial issue, from the risks of tobacco to global climate change. Usually you can weigh their credibility by finding out who is buttering their bread. I think the point, though, is that the issue isn't being discussed at all because of our obsession with "gotcha" politics. Kudos to Will for starting a discussion here. In that spirit, who IS buttering the bread of those criminologists quoted in the WSJ? We know that prisons are becoming more privatized, to contractors who obviously have a vested interest in "attracting" new "customers". We also know that Congressmen and state legislators, representing districts that have an economic dependence on large prisons, or districts that want new prisons, aren't likely to be interested in evaluating ways to reduce prison populations, and are more likely to want prison expansion as the remedy. Mandatory sentencing laws fit right into their politics, and that's not necessarily bad if we're discussing violent crimes, or non-violent crimes that have a devastating impact on their victims, but drug crimes???? Couldn't the vast sums of money needed to house drug prisoners (not to mention the money needed to provide social services to families broken up by such incarcerations), be better spent on prevention, treatment, intervention, education, and so on? If those types of solutions are ignored, then don't we end up with the apathy that SteveMG cites above? And what does prison do except harden otherwise non-violent criminals, anyway?
Posted 04:21 PM, 04/24/2008
Talking point sleuth
See, this is why I like Attytood. Commenters like Xi Jah. First he makes the mistake of confusing correlation with casusation - by simplistically linking higher crime rates to lower incarceration rates without considering any other variables. And the, he says Take it up with James Taranto in the WSJ . Where else would you find such obvious cases of people who rarely actually attempt to make a cogent argument, then do so lamely with faulty reasoning, and then point the finger elsewhere rather than provide a decent defense of their position when challenged? Oh yeah, and then who disavows any concern whatsoever with one of the biggest social issues out there, because neither he nor anyone in his family has done jail time. Beautiful
Posted 04:22 PM, 04/24/2008
Yankee Air Pirate 12
Steve MG-You nailed it.Stop glamorizing criminals,stop treating them like returning royalty when released from prison.It's like some weird rite of passage.
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Posted 04:44 PM, 04/24/2008
MiddleNameHussein
How come it's "Rupert Murdoch's Wall Street Journal", but not "Pinch Sulzberger's New York Times"????
Posted 04:51 PM, 04/24/2008
MiddleNameHussein
If we are to believe these stats, maybe we have 5% of the world's population and almost a quarter of the prisoners because (1) we are good at catching our criminals and (2) we do not have the corrupt governments, justice systems, and police forces that they have in other countries. We catch and jail our criminals, where they go free in other countries. If you think it's so great in other countries, why don't you want to live there? Do you think a country like Mexico is a crime free paradise because they have a smaller percentage of their population in jail??????
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Posted 05:35 PM, 04/24/2008
montani semper liberi
You want to argue...argue with the criminologists cited by Taranto yesterday Posted by Xi Jah..................LOL, pointing out your simplistic logic isn't an argument, it's a keen observation. If this is a such a non-issue for you, then why should we care what you think?
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Posted 07:14 PM, 04/24/2008
Talking point sleuth
This is cute f we are to believe these stats, maybe we have 5% of the world's population and almost a quarter of the prisoners because (1) we are good at catching our criminals and (2) we do not have the corrupt governments, justice systems, and police forces that they have in other countries...... Great point. Because, you know, the only reason why such a smaller percentage of folks in Japan (as just one example) are rotting in jails is because the Japanese government is so much more corrupt, and so inept at catching criminals. It has nothing, absolutely nothing, to do with smaller gaps between the rich and the poor, a more "socialistic" and consentual concept of society, less racial and ethnic strife, etc. Have any of you traveled to Japan? Why there are maniacal derranged criminals running the streets everywhere you look in Japan. If only they'd throw more people in jail, they'd have the admirable crime rate we have here in the U.S.....Oh, what's that? Nevermind.
Posted 08:04 PM, 04/24/2008
marewin
Clinton's did a fine job in Pennsylvannia. They managed to get the desired result by kneecapping the voter's. If people were worried about the economy, wages, healthcare...why then did woman vote for Hillary? Did she promise everybody something, like she does at every stop...or was it the old hometown girl thing. the analysts clearly asked would you vote not for someone because of race? Overwhelming # said yes. This is sad day for Pennsylvannia. Instead of doing some research on the candidate's, they really wasted a vote and a ton of money.
Posted 08:15 PM, 04/24/2008
chrissmith
Some of you guys are just ridiculous. Character questions are completely legitimte in a presidential debate. Give it a rest. Obama sucked. He performed poorly at the debate. Think for yourselves guys. There's so many Obamatrons out there...you guys are like cult members. Obama just sucked at the debate. Period. Let's move on.
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Posted 09:10 PM, 04/24/2008
Talking point sleuth
A translation of Xi Jah = "Well, yeah, the article I quoted from confuses correlation with causation - and provides no support for that connection. But I agree with the politics of their perspective (even as I hypocritically argue that the whole issue is irrelevant but keep posting on it). Therefore, I won't even attempt to articulate my own perspective (too taxing of my limited brain cells), and I'll only quote from their comments. And BTW, don't bother bringing up any experts with conflicting opinion. If you do, I'll just tell you that they're a bunch of "Kos Kooks," and therefore not to be trusted." The Attytood marginalized minority - you gotta love 'em.
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Posted 10:45 PM, 04/24/2008
Archimedes
So "The Genius" thinks that the problem is that blacks and Hispanics commit most of the prison-deserving crimes. The possibility that blacks and to a lesser extent Hispanics are punished more for crimes similar to those committed by nonHispanic whites would be too subtle to understand, I suppose. In any case, a major reason we have so many prisoners is that we imprison people caught with drug possession and also (in NYS at least) people who are caught driving drunk on more than a couple of occasions. Put these people in the rehabs where they belong and the prison population would go down drastically. And, since a lot of other crimes have roots in drug and alcohol abuse, there would be a secondary effect that reduced the size of the prison population. If cops and courts treated all races equally and druggies and alcoholics got treatment, there would be much less of a problem. Also decent gun laws would help reduce crime a lot.
Posted 04:08 AM, 04/25/2008
maxcat06
So the answer is building more prisons in Japan and sending the African Americans and Mexicans there, huh?
Posted 04:08 AM, 04/25/2008
maxcat06
So the answer is building more prisons in Japan and sending the African Americans and Mexicans there, huh?
Posted 07:24 AM, 04/25/2008
jmc
Will, I made a comment on this topic yesterday and it has not shown up as of yet. It's getting frustrating.
Posted 07:24 AM, 04/25/2008
jmc
Will, I made a comment on this topic yesterday and it has not shown up as of yet. It's getting frustrating.
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About Will Bunch
Will's book: Learn about it here and purchase it here.

Will Bunch, a senior writer at the Philadelphia Daily News, blogs about his obsessions, including national and local politics and world affairs, the media, pop music, the Philadelphia Phillies, soccer and other sports, not necessarily in that order.

E-mail Will by clicking here.

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