Sure, it was shocking and appalling when we heard about Gov. Rod Blagojevich, but now an even higher ranking official has been captured on tape making outrageous comments that should offend every American:
"I was aware of the program, certainly, and involved in helping get the process cleared, as the agency, in effect, came in and wanted to know what they could and couldn't do. And they talked to me, as well as others, to explain what they wanted to do. And I supported it."
(Questioner): In hindsight, do you think any of those tactics that were used against Khalid Sheikh Mohammed and others went too far?
"I don't."
It's bad enough when a political figure is so brazenly willing to violate the Constitution, let alone international law -- but to say so on tape, when he realizes that he's being closely watched by the American people? You almost have to wonder whether Vice President Dick Cheney is some kind of sociopath, or has some psychological desire to get caught.(Questioner): In hindsight, do you think any of those tactics that were used against Khalid Sheikh Mohammed and others went too far?
"I don't."
I hope that when the Obama administration gets around to figuring out what they're going to do with that pit-bull Patrick Fitzgerald, they consider him for legal counsel to that National Truth Commission.
Posted by Will Bunch @ 7:32 PM
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47 comments
georgel, you are living proof that to govern the great unwashed in America all you have to is crank up the fear factor. It is laughable that you would put your faith in two chuckle heads like Bush and Cheney. You expect these bozos to protect you from terrorists? They ARE the terrorists. They are the ones responsible for 9/11. They are the ones that shredded your precious Constitution. They are the ones that deprived Americans of their rights and freedoms. And they are the ones who ruined the US economy but still managed to give a trillion dollars to rich bankers, no strings attached. Buddy, you wouldn't know good leadership if it jumped up and bit you on the keester!
It's just so amazing that people are defending the same procedures we prosecuted the enemy for using during WWII. People think that torture kept us safe, when the opposite was true. People think that torture is OK if the person isn't a citizen (or sometimes if he is, but we don't like him). People think that torture is OK because these are some pretty bad guys, even though a large percentage of them turned out not to be. People who think that torture is OK, period.
We got a lot of commentary about how the dead Wal-Mart worker was a sign that we've lost some of our humanity, yet the fact that our VP has just admitted to war crimes won't get most people to bat an eyelid. Wow.
With the Bush administration's secret use of torture ... what exactly separates us from the animals and religious fanatics that Bush wants to eliminate in his "war on terror"?? What then makes us "different" than them? And then, what makes our country attractive to immigrants? Some immigrants have much to offer our country ... why would they want to come to a country that illegally has spied on its citizens, tapped our phones and internet and can call you a "terrorist" simply because we used our "freedom of speech" and said we disagreed with the Bush policies. The owners of websites that question the attacks on 9/11 are on the terrorist watch list, simply because they dare to disagree. Even Canada now has listed the U.S. as a country that uses torture. We are on the list of "animals" and "terrorists" in the world arena. Those of you who condone torture or so easily give up your rights under the Constitution are part of the problem and you are betraying and undermining your fellow Americans and putting our country at further risk. You betray our Constitution. You are a threat to our country and our rights. Herein is the "real" terrorism.
You can sit all day and debate whether waterboarding should be legal. The simple fact is that it was illegal according to US and international law when Cheney unilaterally approved its use. Regardless of the position you take regarding the act itself, it was specifically prohibited. Now, the real question is whether you believe in the rule of law. This deserves to be investigated, and tried. Again, for the slow readers, it's not whether the act itself was warranted, it's whether the act was prohibited by law at the time.
Blago = Palin, IN pants and ON tape.
Lol! Mr. Smith whines again about how "unfair" the world is. Imagine that, a prosecutor doing his job. A prosecutor holding someone as important to our Democracy as the chief of staff of the Vice-President accountable for breaking the law. Just sooooooo unfair. Next Mr. Smith will whine about prosecutors who refuse to bring cases to trial because there is insufficient evidence, and who refuse to bow to political pressure from high-ranking Republicans to do so. Oh... wait.
To all of you anti-American, cowardly torture advocates and defenders: read this http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/11/28/AR2008112802242_pf.html Then shut up.
"You can really sense the fear this is stirring in terrorists. What? That's actually laughter, not fear? Oh, never mind." . . . . What a splendid example of sociopathic insecurity. I realize what distinguishes us from the barbarians here. We care about how we're perceived by the rest of civilization. Batty-types are obsessed only by how we're perceived by their kindred spirits.
"…people that would yell "kill him or hang him" (referring to Obama) at a McCain/Palin rally." Poor McCain. I can just see him at one of those rallies thinking, “These are my supporters?” and then looking over at Caribou Barbie (Steve Schmidt’s pick for Mac’s VP) and thinking, “THAT’S my running mate?”
Cheney had no problem saying it on tape because he knows HE WON'T BE PROSECUTED.
Congress is either paid off or compromised or both.
There is no punishment for offenders at that level of government, and the next president always maintains the status quo.
Cheney had no problem saying it on tape because he knows HE WON'T BE PROSECUTED.
Congress is either paid off or compromised or both.
There is no punishment for offenders at that level of government, and the next president always maintains the status quo.
Cheney had no problem saying it on tape because he knows HE WON'T BE PROSECUTED.
Congress is either paid off or compromised or both.
There is no punishment for offenders at that level of government, and the next president always maintains the status quo.
Anybody wonder who leaked the details of the investigation to Blagojevich, to make him dummy up? Just when the negotiations were getting juicy, somebody leaked details about Fitzgerald's investigation....... was it a whistleblower, performing a civic duty to keep the public informed, or was it an attempt to protect someone who was getting ensnared?... Has Fitzgerald ever continued an investigation, even after he already knew the answers he was supposedly looking for? I seem to recall something like that in the past. Who was being protected, I wonder? .....Maybe Fitzgerald will be Obama's AG. Holder won't hold it for long....
I was going to post about this but Gee1971 said it all. Sometimes it's tough to stand behind your principles and uphold the constitution against 'mob mentality' but you have to. The people who would say torture is ok in some cases are the same kind of people that would yell "kill him or hang him" (referring to Obama)at a McCain/Palin rally. Torture isn't right and never will be. It provides unreliable information and most of the time is just an excuse for revenge.
This is a little off subject, but that doesn’t seem to be unusual in this blog; Patrick Fitzgerald is my kind of prosecutor: Fair-minded, incorruptible, non-partisan and yet, as Will said, a pit bull. Oh, and he’s funny too. Did anyone hear his guest appearance on NPR’s Wait, Wait Don’t Tell Me? President Obama’s Attorney General, perhaps?
Icky and soft. your an idiot. Is it tougher to say. This is what I believe in and I will stand and defend what i believe in PERIOD. or are you so shallow in your morals that one terrorist act and you're willing to set the very principles that make this country great aside. What happens after the next attack? no one in and no one out of the country? We're on lock down. curfues for the entire country. Yeah, torture is a sign of strength..... Right. Good one. It's a sign of weakness and you don't get it. It's a sign of no backbone.... Its a sign of letting adversity eliminate the very foundation of our values. It's fear and fear is weak.
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"We're the bad guys." . . . . . . . . . . . Well, if the shoe fits, be my guest. The fact is, the real challenge for our civilization is the same one Jesus predicted two millenia ago. It's the struggle between those who love and those who hate. Terrorists and torture sympathizers look to be on the losing end. Sorry.
The harsh reality is that this was not a noble undertaking done for good reasons. It was a criminal enterprise launched by madmen cheered on by a chorus of fools and cowards. And it’s seen as such by virtually everyone all around the world — including but by no means limited to the Arab world. But it’s impolitic to point this out in the United States, and it’s clear that even a president-elect who had the wisdom not to be suckered in by the War Fever of 2002 has no intention of really acting to marginalize the bad actors. Which, I think, makes sense for his political objectives. But if Americans want to play a constructive role in world affairs, it’s vitally important for us to get in touch with the reality of what the past eight years of US foreign policy have been and how they’re seen and understood by people who aren’t stirred by the shibboleths of American patriotism.
That a boy will.. stick up for the terrorists. We're the bad guys.
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How many days are left in the worst Presidency ever?
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The right is so incredicbly full of ridiculous contradictions that it's pathetic. And they think they are the moral compass of this country. Same guys who claim torture is totally legitimate if it's justified to protect "our interests" are the same guys who defend the Iraq war because Saddam was a a bad guy who used torture and fear as tools to defend what he considered his national interests. It's the ACT THAT MATTER YOU MORONS!!! Legitimacy, rational or justification for such actions is strictly based on you Point of View. That's why American and International Law says you can't do it. Period!! it doens't say, well you can do it in some cases, if the victim is a REALLY BAD GUY. Morons.
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I think someone should have asked Obama directly if he would not have waterboarded KSM and watch him stumble over that one for a few days before not answering it.
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Yes, Virginia, the marginalized minority supports torture. Which, of course, is why they are a marginalized minority. Go wallow in your filth and leave the rest of us to restore America's pride and dignity.
Will, ‘when the Obama administration’ gets to anything, you will have wasted time and effort. Get some ambition. Get involved in something, help others, do something other than complain and wait. It does not bring resolution or invention. I respect you writings (most of the time), but call people to honest arms to debate. Lead us to debate something worth debating. Here remains partisanship and complaining, or rants from the empty corner.
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Not a surprising position from Will - Will also thinks that cop killers like Mumia should get free room and board on the taxpayers for life.
It doesn't matter if Obama is a D or R. He made promising across the land to get elected. His task: keep those promises, get people & industry to spend to revive the economy, and stay clean. As a junior politician, he does not have the clout to protect himself from being clean. He sold his soul to get elected. - Also, he has been doing no favors to help his cause. He could have brought his way our by helping Dems with debt from the election, but chose not too. – Talk he is good at, but real leadership would have gotten the last 8 votes for the auto industry. He didn’t and cannot, his clout runneth empty.
Yawn. Quick WIll, change the subject from how Emanuel lied about talking to the Governor of Illinois. Quick, quick!
more than ever, Cheney reveals himself for a churlish, brutish thug unfit for any public office in America.
"not what the Eurotrash think of us." So wait, I can't keep staight when Eurotrash opinion matters. Torturing people? It doesn't. Talking about former presidents? It does. Is that how it works?
Now that torture is legal can we torture the 50 million idiots who voted for Bush twice.
Yeah, I've heard that being instrumental in keeping America safe, and preventing another 9/11 from happening is one of the main identifiers of the sociopath.
To talking point sleuth:
Read my post and the one before it.I know you feel superior with your lofty ideals, but this is a street fight, not a debating society. You can't negotiate with people who want you dead, and don't care if they die in the process. Screw world opinion. I would prefer to be feared than loved by my enemies. you must be related to Neville Chamberlain and Trudy Rubin. Remember, these people want you as dead as they want me. When will you morons realize that?
"Yeah, that'll teach him. " Ah, now I understand. No matter that using torture produces unreliable information. No matter that the vast majority of interrogation experts discredit torture as ineffective and antithetical to effective interrogation practices. No matter that in advocating torture, the Bush administration has lost support world wide. No matter that in adopting torture as an official policy, the Bush administration has set handed jihadists the best recruiting tool possible. No matter that military experts like Powell tell us that torture undermines our effort to combat Islamic fundamentalism. No matter that using torture undermines centuries of stated principles of American leaders. What matters is whether we will "teach" a lesson to someone who will never spend another waking moment of his life free of shackles. Because, after all, what's to worry about sacrificing future American lives and our moral authority when you can extract some revenge and laugh about it with your Republican toady buddies?
Had we been attacked these same mental midgets would have been screaming for Bush and Cheyney's heads. These guys were unlawful combatants and NOT US citizens and are not entitled to constitutional protections. When are you going to understand this is about our survival, not what the Eurotrash think of us. Who do you want on your side in a street fight, the ACLU or Bush? I'll take Bush. Hopefully this group of commies coming in January will learn this lesson quickly and not get thousands of people killed while worrying about political correctness and "fairness" (whatever that is).
Did you see the interview on Rachel Maddow with Mr. Tamm, the Justice Department lawyer who recognized that the U.S. was illegally taping, using illegal rendition, and illegally torturing? He blew the whistle on the violations of the 4th Amendment (and FISA Act) a year ago. Apparently the Justice Department lawyers, focusing on the near at hand, thought that the Atty. General would be tried, convicted, and sent to jail for 5 years for condoning the acts, to which I say, "not too late!" I worry that a Truth and Reconciliation Commission would spend too much time on reconciliation and not enough time on punishing the wrongdoers. The Medal of Freedom ought to be stripped from around the neck of George Tenant and given to Tamm in appreciation for his efforts to save the civil liberties of Americans.
Will The Shill Bunch... so consumed with BDS that he will defend enemies of our country if it means he can practice some BushHate.
Waterboarding KSM is more a violation of the Glass-Steagall Act than it is the Geneva Convention.
Sarah Palin wasn't qualified to be VP after two years as governor, but Caroline Kennedy is qualified to be Senator after 50 years as a fairy-tale princess.
No . . . the President and Vice President took actions that they felt necessary to prevent future terrorist attacks against this county. Cheyney could work on KSM with a pair of pilers and a blow torch during half time of the Super Bowl, and I wouldn't care or be offended.
What would Wil do . . . oh, that's right, give KSM a fair trial in open court. Yeah, that'll teach him. How is the view from the cheap seats?
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About Will Bunch
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Will Bunch, a senior writer at the Philadelphia Daily News, blogs about his obsessions, including national and local politics and world affairs, the media, pop music, the Philadelphia Phillies, soccer and other sports, not necessarily in that order.
Will Bunch, a senior writer at the Philadelphia Daily News, blogs about his obsessions, including national and local politics and world affairs, the media, pop music, the Philadelphia Phillies, soccer and other sports, not necessarily in that order.
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