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Wednesday, October 8, 2008

 

Once there was a president in the Oval Office who understood the ramifications of killing innocent civilians abroad, even for an operation that might appear on its face to advance American interests. This commander-in-chief once shunned a sweeping military response to a terrorist killing of a U.S. Navy sailor because, as his highly respected biographer later noted, the president told his aides "that killing civilians in a strike against terrorists would be 'an act of terrorism itself.'"

That happened in 1985, and the president was Ronald Reagan, the man that Sarah Palin and John McCain have practically nominated for sainthood during their rallies and their TV debate shtick in 2008. But Palin and McCain have in fact dishonored Reagan, and all the leaders from both parties who have come before them, with their cavalier attitude toward how America treats other people around the globe, and how other people should perceive us. We see this in their vicious and petty high school pep rally approach to politics -- where chants of "drill baby drill" seem to be morphing dangerously closer to "kill baby kill" every passing day.

The once noble idea that U.S. military actions that kill innocents as collateral damage are a thing to be minimized and ideally avoided altogether is now a wussy concept for those arugula-eating tire-inflating wimps, now that we're in the glorious new era of American "shock and awe."

And so Palin has made a big deal -- in a soundbite the McCain campaign is recycling in a TV commercial -- about some comments that Barack Obama made last year against the way that we're fighting the war in Afghanistan. In Palin's recent words

"Barack Obama had said that all we're doing in Afghanistan is air-raiding villages and killing civilians." Palin insisted that "such a reckless, reckless comment and untrue comment, again, hurts our cause."

First of all, you'll be shocked, shocked to learn that Obama's actual remark on Afghanistan was taken way out of context. Here's what he really said:

"We've got to get the job done there," Obama said. "And that requires us to have enough troops so that we're not just air-raiding villages and killing civilians, which is causing enormous problems there."

In other words, Obama's concerns are all about how to "get the job done" over there -- which seems to contradict Palin and McCain's cartoonish portrayal of the Democratic candidate as someone who doesn't believe in U.S. "victory" abroad, although I guess you can see why it's hard for them to understand when a leader doesn't use their exact pep-rally lingo. And as this excellent analysis in the Guardian notes, Obama's words were anything but "untrue" -- at the time he said them, U.S. forces and our allies were killing civilians, albeit inadvertently, at a higher rate than the militants we are fighting in Afghanistan.

And that was last year. So far in 2008, the issue of collateral damage and innocent civilian deaths in Afghanistan has grown much worse -- much of that tracing back to a strategy that's hampered by a lack of manpower, which is tied up in John McCain and George W. Bush's surge in Iraq.

Indeed, the utter vapidity of Palin's comments that any comment about Americans killing civilians in warfare are automatically "untrue" was rendered even more ridiculous by this sad story today out of Afghanistan:

WASHINGTON — An investigation by the military has concluded that American airstrikes on Aug. 22 in a village in western Afghanistan killed far more civilians than American commanders there have acknowledged, according to two American military officials.

The military investigator’s report found that more than 30 civilians — not 5 to 7 as the military has long insisted — died in the airstrikes against a suspected Taliban compound in Azizabad.

The investigator, Brig. Gen. Michael W. Callan of the Air Force, concluded that many more civilians, including women and children, had been buried in the rubble than the military had asserted, one of the military officials said.

This is one incident, and the facts are still very much in dispute. The U.S. military says the target was a Taliban compound, and if that's so it shows how hard it is to avoid this kind of tragedy in modern warfare. That doesn't mean the problem of civilian deaths shouldn't be taken quite seriously, and thus brushed off with embarrassing pep-rally bravado.

Most importantly, killing innocent civilians is morally wrong, period, and what had happens it should be the subject of mourning, not baseless denial and an avenue for political ridicule; you'd think even a pit-bull hockey mom would have a little more human empathy, especially when the Afghan people are our allies that Palin and McCain so much say they want to deliver freedom to.

But beyond that, avoiding civilian deaths is also so critical to that victory over there that Palin and McCain talk so much about; every needless death creates more hatred toward America and our allies, and drives new converts to anti-U.S. terrorism. And that totally undermines our strategy abroad -- it ultimately puts more U.S. citizens and soldiers at greater risk, including Palin's own son, now fighting in Iraq along with the sons of John McCain and Joe Biden.

And Palin's political abuse of the civilian casualty issue is disrespectful to our own military leaders, who have asked for more ground troops in Afghanistan so that we don't have to use so much airpower, a situation that's more dangerous for our soldiers as well as for innocent Afghans. I thought a McCain-Palin (or is it Palin-McCain these days?) administration was going to be all about respect for our military leaders and listening to what they have to say. Very sad.

The  problem of civilian casualties is -- at least back here in the "reality-based world" -- just too sober and serious to get those war whoops and whistles at your Sunbelt cheerleading competitions, too easy to lump into an evil effort to demonize Barack Obama as "that one." Even Ronald Reagan -- despite his many flaws as president --understood the gravity of the issue. Have we really fallen this far, this fast in just one short political generation? 

Posted by Will Bunch @ 11:52 AM  Permalink | 100 comments
Comments   
Posted 12:09 PM, 10/08/2008
JourneyHome
Obama is far more Presidential. He is head and shoulders more dignified and Presidential than even Ronald Regan. His conduct, his grasp of the issues, are his ideas. This man is a born leader and he is intelligent. A quality desperately needed at the top. He is able to communicate his ideas effectively because they are his ideas and a product of his own research and contemplation. McCain and Palin are puppets spouting talking points force fed to them by handlers who's only goal is to remain in power and continue reaping the personal benefits of that power. What in Sarah Palin's personality lets her imply Barack is a terrorist? That's not leadership, that's not Presidential, that's just a character flaw. A lack of integrity, a lack of honesty, disingenuous and not deserving of our trust. These people (McCain, Palin and their handlers) just want to win and will say anything to win. John McCain has been flip flopping like a fish on a dock. In years past the republican party loyalist would be calling him out for that if he was a democrat. It's pathetic and I actually feel sorry for McCain who so blatantly has sold out. That picture of him hugging Bush makes me want to puke after the working over Bush and Rove did to him in South Carolina. But John will be all right. He's got tons of money and he'll go back to his seven homes like nothing happened and continue his "Keating Five" way of doing business hopefully out of the limelight. I hope the true Conservatives kick these neo-con fascist and freedom hating zealots out of their party and balance the damn budget already. It's laughable that the democrats are fiscally more responsible than the republicans. But then again Change is the only constant in the Universe.
Posted 12:11 PM, 10/08/2008
JourneyHome
Obama is far more Presidential. He is head and shoulders more dignified and Presidential than even Ronald Regan. His conduct, his grasp of the issues, are his ideas. This man is a born leader and he is intelligent. A quality desperately needed at the top. He is able to communicate his ideas effectively because they are his ideas and a product of his own research and contemplation. McCain and Palin are puppets spouting talking points force fed to them by handlers who's only goal is to remain in power and continue reaping the personal benefits of that power.
Posted 12:11 PM, 10/08/2008
jmc
Here's a little reality for you. If you are in a war, innocent civilians will be killed, especially against an enemy who blends in with the general population. The United States does all it can to keep these to a minimum, and is successful. To say otherwise is a lie, and to have our hands tied out of fear of killing civilians seals our defeat. The responsibility for the vast majority of dead civilians falls on the terrorists who hide behind them. Also, Obama's comment states that we are currently only air-raiding villages and killing civilians. His stated reason for this is not enough troops, but the reason doesn't matter, his words are pretty clear.
Posted 12:19 PM, 10/08/2008
Captain Awesome
"but the reason doesn't matter". Brilliant.
Posted 12:23 PM, 10/08/2008
voiceofreason
These people are human beings, not just collateral damage. How many civilians have been killed in Iraq and Afghanistan? These figures are seldom published. Nor is the fact that the Pope--for all you flag waiving Catholics--has told Bush repeatedly that Iraq is NOT a just war, thereby making participation in it a mortal sin.
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Posted 12:38 PM, 10/08/2008
Politburo
I see Xi Jah picked up today's talking points..
Posted 12:52 PM, 10/08/2008
ElBlot
Great post Will - I really love the Reagan quote. In my opinion, the issue of civilian casualties is not discussed nearly enough. Every innocent person that our military kills - even by accident - is a sin that every American citizen carries on their shoulders.
Posted 01:05 PM, 10/08/2008
KevinS
OBAMA: "Its above my paygrade".... Mother Teresa: "The greatest destroyer of peace is abortion because if a mother can kill her own child, what is left for me to kill you and you to kill me? There is nothing between.".... "It is a poverty to decide that a child must die so that you may live as you wish."... CATHOLICS: It is within your paygrade. Vote.
Posted 01:22 PM, 10/08/2008
SteveMG
What the wingnuts don't get is that we want the civilians on our side. We aren't at war against Iraq and we aren't at war against Afghanistan. Elblot, you're getting carried away calling every civilian death a sin on our shoulders. Now THAT'S the kind of thing Palin would be right to trash. Even the statement, that you could sin by accident, makes no sense.
Posted 01:32 PM, 10/08/2008
montani semper liberi
"Here's a little reality for you. If you are in a war, innocent civilians will be killed, especially against an enemy who blends in with the general population." . . . . . jmc, maybe you need to tell that to Palin? It's funny how would-be pro-lifers ignore such reality.
Posted 01:34 PM, 10/08/2008
Danny55
Hello Xi Jah. It is obvious who the real idiot is - that would be you - since you cannot respond in a human, dignified way to your fellow Americans when you disagree with their opinions. Since you act like a child, why don't you go sit in the corner with your thumb in your mouth and think of a more reasonable way to respond like with real facts and logic as opposed to "you're an idiot". Any monkey in the Zoo can come up with that response.
Posted 01:36 PM, 10/08/2008
Gibba Mang
Obama pwn3d McCain on how the GOP has lost the war on terror. Bush and his cronies propped up a dictator in Pakistan (Musharref) who has not done right by his people. That is one of the reasons why the Pakistani people don't want to help America and it's allies root out AQ. If we promote Democracy in Pakistan then perhaps we can reduce the Pakistani role in protecting AQ. McSame is clueless on foreign policy. He wants to continue the faile practices of previous administrations.
Posted 01:44 PM, 10/08/2008
Talking point sleuth
The concept of civilians dying "by accident" is misleading anyway. Military target evaluators have ratios that they use to determine the number of civilians they consider expendable contingent on the value of the target. Barring information that a terrorist is in the area a bomb wouldn't be dropped, but the civilian deaths are not accidental, and sometimes the information is wrong and the only resultant deaths are those of civilians. The "collateral damage" is not simply the deaths of the civilians, but also very counterproductive impact on the larger war. This is the very reason that more emphasis should be made on other measures that are more productive and have less collateral damage. The situation in Iraq only became less horrendous once the maniacal civilians that were originally crafting the military strategy in Iraq (i.e., Rumsfeld and his cronies), civilians who lacked the necessary insight into how to wage the war successfully, civilians empowered by George Bush and indirectly the Republicans who voted for Bush, were removed. I once thought that McCain had some greater awareness of the damage caused by ill-conceived military strategies that didn't sufficiently weigh the costs of collateral damage. Unfortunately, his pandering to his base - as represented by his reversal on torture and his ridiculing the notion of the potential benefits of direct diplomacy - suggest that he has raised political expediency above successful strategy.
Posted 01:44 PM, 10/08/2008
Damgoodbodies
Danny55, we welcome intelligent commentary such as yours. You have nailed Xi Jah bullseye. That is pretty much the gist of his daily posts.
Posted 01:46 PM, 10/08/2008
Talking point sleuth
Ok, since for some reason it didn't pass the filter the first time, I'll break it into chunks to find the problem. The concept of civilians dying "by accident" is misleading anyway. Military target evaluators have ratios that they use to determine the number of civilians they consider expendable contingent on the value of the target.
Posted 01:47 PM, 10/08/2008
Talking point sleuth
Uh oh. Not only does this filter catch wacky items, now it also seems to vary in how long it takes for a post to show up. Sheeece.
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Posted 01:51 PM, 10/08/2008
Gibba Mang
TSP - I also believed McCain understood the errors made in Iraq and would chose another strategy on ending the war. Sadly, he has repeated the same rhetoric we heard from Bush et al. I guess I believed that is he was elected, he would be different. That does not appear to be the case.
Posted 02:01 PM, 10/08/2008
montani semper liberi
Xi Jah, should McCain publicly reject the endorsement of Leonore Annenberg? After all, she provides funding through her foundation to an educational project that allows a known terrorist to sit on its board.
Posted 02:03 PM, 10/08/2008
GreyHippie
I've been baffled for 2 weeks now about what exactly is the McCain camp's strategy with Palin. Keeping her sequestered for debate prep was one thing but this pep-rally with highly inflammatory empty rhetoric to the already committed McCain/Palin voters is just a bizarre strategy to win over other voters. Then, it hit me - this is about Rick Davis and Steve Schmidt et al getting paid every penny of their multi-million dollar consulting fees. Palin is out there to raise $$$ from the party faithful so that the bills (and the boyz) get paid.
Posted 02:05 PM, 10/08/2008
montani semper liberi
Excellent point, Grey Hippie.
Posted 02:06 PM, 10/08/2008
Talking point sleuth
"TSP - I also believed McCain understood the errors made in Iraq and would chose another strategy on ending the war...." One would assume that would be the case. Having military experience usually leads to a greater appreciation for the costs of war - be they the loss of American lives, the expenditure of American resources, or the horrors of civilian deaths and other forms of "collateral damage." In that sense, one would think that McCain's military career would be an advantage of "experience" as he has claimed. Of course, his experience didn't prevent him from completely misreading the cost/benefits of invading Iraq in the first place, and didn't prevent him from completely miscalculating the losses it would incur. But even the best military leaders can make mistakes. Yes, there were military leaders who pointed out beforehand that the civilians that were crafting the American military strategy in Iraq were ill-informed. But those civilians deliberately ignored that advice because it ran presented realistic obstacles to their desired outcome and the rhetoric they needed to promote in order to gain public support. But the problem with McCain is that he acts like it is his military experience in and of itself that guarantees the viability of his judgment - despite his obvious errors in judgment re: Iraq. That posturing - that lack of humility in the face of his faulty judgment that has had huge costs to America at so many levels - is far more troubling than the simple fact of his having been mistaken.
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Posted 02:12 PM, 10/08/2008
longshanks
Again Kevins, for the second straight day, I plead with you to tell us how women having abortions and the woman's right to choose are ruining your life? Please explain how a woman's personal business is yours too? And while you're at it, tell us how many foster children you've adopted or support. Stop being a sheep for a church that has supported pedophiles for centuries. You need help...but before you go to a shrink, first explain to us exactly how abortions are affecting your life?
Posted 02:17 PM, 10/08/2008
montani semper liberi
"I confess, without shame, that I am sick and tired of fighting—its glory is all moonshine; even success the most brilliant is over dead and mangled bodies, with the anguish and lamentations of distant families, appealing to me for sons, husbands, and fathers ... it is only those who have never heard a shot, never heard the shriek and groans of the wounded and lacerated ... that cry aloud for more blood, more vengeance, more desolation." - Gen. Wm. T. Sherman
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Posted 02:20 PM, 10/08/2008
jmc
I'll line Obama's quote up a different way. He says something is causing problems there (Afghanistan). What is causing problems is air raiding villages and killing civilians, and in order to stop that, we need more troops. Forward and backward he says the same thing.
Posted 02:21 PM, 10/08/2008
BillyPenn
Xi Jah, well for starters he is a graduate of Columbia University and Harvard law school where he served as president of the Harvard law review. He also taught constitutional law at the university of Chicago law school. Ronald Regan was an actor, wasn't he? and Palin has a degree in what, journalism right? and McCain 5th from the bottom of his class and how many planes did he crash? btw what is your degree in? fingerpainting? lmao.
Posted 02:27 PM, 10/08/2008
montani semper liberi
KevinS, you realize that Mother Theresa passed away, don't you, and besides, I don't think she'd qualify to be President because of her citizenship. It was a nice thought, though. Heck, maybe it should be a protest vote for Catholics anyway.
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Posted 02:28 PM, 10/08/2008
Mr. Smith
"just air-raiding villages and killing civillians" the word "JUST" implies that is all the military is doing. I know it was a slip of the tongue, an unscripted moment, but it reveals a disdain for the delicate balance our military has to try to maintain.
Posted 02:31 PM, 10/08/2008
legatus
"first explain to us exactly how abortions are affecting your life?" For the sake of argument, please explain how the murder of a one-day old baby affects your life.
Posted 02:31 PM, 10/08/2008
Talking point sleuth
I don't agree Grey Hippie. The current Palin as attack dog strategy seems to me to be the way for the Republicans to step up the hateful rhetoric without sullying McCain's image. They need to promote these absurd notions as a last-ditch effort to try to reverse the momentum, and they've calculated that if she does it with a smile and a wink, voters won't judge Palin as being an aggressive partisan. After the first debate, it became obvious that McCain would be hurt more than helped by being strongly aggressive. That's also why he was less aggressive in the second debate than many thought he would be. All they've got left is Palin as attack dog. Sad. Well, actually not so sad.
Posted 02:31 PM, 10/08/2008
montani semper liberi
"I'll line Obama's quote up a different way." . . . . Of course you will. It just makes too much sense left intact.
Posted 02:38 PM, 10/08/2008
kellyfromsp
You get them Daily news, exposure is needed by the press to shed the light on the dishonesty.
Posted 02:38 PM, 10/08/2008
kellyfromsp
You get them Daily news, exposure is needed by the press to shed the light on the dishonesty.
Posted 02:40 PM, 10/08/2008
Gibba Mang
I can't believe that Jah is trumpeting Reagan. While I believe Reagan did a lot to improve the collective moral of the country after he was elected. Reagan was also the man whose administration sold weapons to the Iranian Government in exchange for cash that was used to fund an illegal war in Central America. Reagan either was incompetent to what was going on, or he was involved but lied. Either way, he is a failed President. Funny how all of that gets swept under the rug when discussing Reagan's legacy. I voted for the schmuck in '84 and changed my party affilition to Independent in '88.
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Posted 02:42 PM, 10/08/2008
Gibba Mang
For the sake of argument, please explain how the murder of a one-day old baby affects your life......Who is "murdering" one day old babies?!?
Posted 02:46 PM, 10/08/2008
Gibba Mang
Gibba, who gives a sh*t what you think?.....obviously you do if you took the time to respond to my statement. Just admit it, Reagan was a crook like Bush. Both failed America! THAT is the GOP legeacy over the past 25 years: Failure!
Posted 02:47 PM, 10/08/2008
xxx
Palin is a stupid scumbag.
Posted 02:48 PM, 10/08/2008
legatus
Who said anyone is murdering one-day old babies? Do you always answer a question with a question? Let me clarify for those lacking intellectual acuity...For the sake of argument, if one was to murder a one-day old baby, please explain how it would affect your life.
Posted 02:52 PM, 10/08/2008
legatus
I better be even clearer for Gibba's sake. If someone else was to murder a one-day old baby, please explain how it would affect you, a total stranger.
Posted 02:53 PM, 10/08/2008
RG
"For the sake of argument, if one was to murder a one-day old baby, please explain how it would affect your life." Well, it wouldn't affect my day to day life, but it would be morally reprehensible. In addition, it's against the law.
Posted 02:54 PM, 10/08/2008
Damgoodbodies
Posted by Xi Jah 02:27 PM, 10/08/2008 " Reagan was President of the SAG in California...a major organization" This coming from a guy who ridicules any actor or celeb who dare endorse Obama or disagree with your republican lackey rhetoric. You are good for a laugh. I'll give you that.
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Posted 02:57 PM, 10/08/2008
RG
Ah yes, NOW Xi Jah is all about foreign citizens and actors in formulating his opinions.
Posted 02:58 PM, 10/08/2008
legatus
I would go further and state that the reason it is against the law is because it is morally reprehensible. That "morally reprehensible" part is the argument that pro-lifers use to justify their position that abortion should be against the law. You would agree then that the argument that "what you do doesn't affect me" is not tenable, and there must be other, better reasons to support the pro-choice argument?
Posted 02:59 PM, 10/08/2008
RG
It doesn't matter what I agree with, the Supreme Court took the side of "right to privacy". I've already stated, that morally, I am against abortion.
Posted 03:02 PM, 10/08/2008
BillyPenn
Well Xi Jah accomplishments are normally part of a resume, you would know that if you ever had to write one but here you go a few more resime entries...As a member of the Democratic minority in the 109th Congress, he helped create legislation to control conventional weapons and to promote greater public accountability in the use of federal funds. He also made official trips to Eastern Europe, the Middle East, and Africa. During the 110th Congress, he helped create legislation regarding lobbying and electoral fraud, climate change, nuclear terrorism, and care for returned U.S. military personnel. There's more the internet is a wealth of knowledge and I have studied up on BOTH candidates. I'll take a man with a Harvard degree over an overinflated frat boy any day of the week. Unless I'm going drinking and cruising for chicks then I guess McCaint would be my pick.
Posted 03:02 PM, 10/08/2008
legatus
In fact, I too am personally against abortion...but do not believe that the gov't should me involved in this decision. My only point is that the argument presented above is inane...we don't live in a vacuum.
Posted 03:03 PM, 10/08/2008
Gibba Mang
Ah yes, NOW Xi Jah is all about foreign citizens and actors in formulating his opinions......Jah is a mess, he's all over the place. It seems he takes his cues from Mr. McCain!
Posted 03:03 PM, 10/08/2008
Politburo
Mr. Smith how can you say in the same breath that it's a slip of the tongue, but reveals some mythical disdain? If it's a slip of the tongue, then it doesn't reveal anything.
Posted 03:05 PM, 10/08/2008
montani semper liberi
Xi Jah, Reagan was an idiot. He traded arms for hostages with Iran. Even Carter didn't stoop that low.
Posted 03:06 PM, 10/08/2008
Talking point sleuth
Wow! Apparently Xi Jah thinks we should formulate policy analysis on the basis of what Europeans think. Pretty strange, but I have to admit, it's a step up from sloboat, who thinks we should formulate policy by asking Martians their opinions.
Posted 03:09 PM, 10/08/2008
Captain Awesome
Pelosi is saying the government now needs to issue a $150B stimulus package. The hits just keep on coming.
Posted 03:11 PM, 10/08/2008
BillyPenn
Thanks Gibba Mang, I also lived through the 80's and remember the reagan years well. I'm still wating for that trickle down theory to kick in.
Posted 03:12 PM, 10/08/2008
LJL
...and you get these morons spouting "they hate us for our freedoms!"....Uh, no, actually they hate us because we kill them and destroy their countries. And please, spare the abortion analogies. These same cretins who want to force woman to have children also want to cut funding for assistance to unwed mothers, not to mention having no problem with the death penalty. Ah conservatives, fighting for the right to life.....until you are born, that is.
Posted 03:15 PM, 10/08/2008
montani semper liberi
"I'm still wating for that trickle down theory to kick in." . . . . Heh, it's kicking in now, in case you haven't noticed.
Posted 03:16 PM, 10/08/2008
Bud Fox
I think it takes a lot of nerve to accuse the other side of "pep rally politics" when your candidate is Barack Obama. I think it's pretty clear he is the pep rally candidate. Most of his supporters don't even know what he stands for (taking money from them to waste in the govt), but they love a good pep rally.
Posted 03:17 PM, 10/08/2008
BillyPenn
montani semper liberi good one, I guess I had the concept reversed :)
Posted 03:18 PM, 10/08/2008
GreyHippie
Talking point sleuth, but it isn't working any better with Palin as attack dog. They have her going to only the safest most reliably Republican areas; they are ensuring that the crowds are the most fervent and all decked out in bright red. This doesn't seem to be designed to attract undecided’s to me, or if it is, it's a big-time miscalculation.
Posted 03:25 PM, 10/08/2008
Talking point sleuth
That is a good point, GreyHippie. It does seem like a pretty lame strategy to try to win independents by letting Palin loose in front of diehards. You could be right. I guess it could also be that they also believe there's something to be gained by rallying their base - since they perceived a jump in support from their base when Palin got nominated. Of course, that turned out to just be a blip on the radar - but it wouldn't be out of character for Republicans to base strategies on short-term thinking. Deregulation and invading Iraq are only two of the many planks of the Republican platform that reflect an inability to see obvious consequences that lie just beyond the immediate horizon.
Posted 03:29 PM, 10/08/2008
legatus
"Ah conservatives, fighting for the right to life.....until you are born, that is." LJL, are there ~any~ talking points that you don't mindlessly spout? Here, let me give you the right-wing version of the above..."Ah liberals, killing innocent babies and fighting for the right to life for mass murderers."
Posted 03:35 PM, 10/08/2008
gee1971
McCain lost to George Bush. The Republicans Acknowledged it 8 years ago....George Bush is a more suitable candidate for the White house than John McCain. So there is the measuring stick. McCain is not He doesn't measure up to the most powerful moron on the planet. Bush has been a failure. Why would any rational person want the guy who could't beat him? And then, in his anger, instead of holding the moral highground, he endeavorvered to become him by running his campaign much the same way wiht many of the same people. It's a joke. And it's a shame. He still wouldn't be fit to be President, but atleast he'd have his dignity.
Posted 03:36 PM, 10/08/2008
sleepy
When are we going to hear about the massive voter fraud that is being perpetrated by ACORN?
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Posted 03:40 PM, 10/08/2008
Gibba Mang
I also lived through the 80's and remember the reagan years well.....I remember them too. I am in awe at how faithful some Republicans are in supporting their candidate even when faced with information that they willingly broke the law in selling arms to terrorists. And Obama is risky? lolz.................please.
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Posted 04:16 PM, 10/08/2008
SNS08
Xi Jah is an idiot. Pay no attention to the gargoyle.
Posted 04:19 PM, 10/08/2008
SNS08
Xi Jah got slapped so silly over at the Polman blog that he/she/it came scurrying over here to infect this blog like a V.D. Get your shots everyone - Xi Jah is a pandemic sized moron.
Posted 04:53 PM, 10/08/2008
montani semper liberi
"I'm not going over the ridiculousness of touting a grown man's academic credentials as the reason he should be President...." . . . In light of the hand your party has been dealt, you'd probably be a fool to do so, Xi Jah. However, you still come across as foolish in poo-pooing the importance of education for the highest political office in the world. It's not the only qualification for office, but it's up there near the top of the list. Another thing......are you suggesting that a person only develops leadership skills by holding political office? You don't think much of Reagan then, do you? By your standard, Reagan would have been unqualified to be elected Governor of California in the first place, because he had held no prior political office. Of course that's idiotic. Reagan (like Obama, imho) naturally possessed exceptional leadership talent that voters sensed instinctively. I'm sure you'd agree.
Posted 04:59 PM, 10/08/2008
bpphilly
Gibba: seriously, what does LOLZ mean? Laugh out Loudz? Laugh out Loud, then sleep (as in zzz's)? Or LOLZ...as in the literal pronunciation? I'm seriously curious as to what the meaning is being that I see you post it almost daily. I guess I'm old school with the plain old lol--laugh out loud.
Posted 05:22 PM, 10/08/2008
SBVFT Contributor
Will's post is all the proof you need to see that even if we had never gone into Iraq, the media would have eventually turned on the Afghan war as well. Prolly early 2002. Targeting is, and always will be an inexact science. Even with our most precision weaponry and the abundant precautions we take, civilians die, especially when an enemy hides among civilians. And I got news for you libz – civilians will continue to perish, even in an Obama administration (well, if he doesn’t surrender and disband our military). Even with a dark ages enemy (the Taliban) that would likely slit the throat of your typical liberal faster than you can say ‘Bush Lied”, libz can barely muster the enthusiasm to battle these savages. Thanks to our traitorous media, Western Civilization would be doomed were there ever to be a large scale conflict in the future. Thanks to a journalist class populated with Will Bunch types, the modern democratic state would be unable to wage war in the manner necceesary to win.
Posted 05:33 PM, 10/08/2008
RG
"Thanks to our traitorous media, Western Civilization would be doomed were there ever to be a large scale conflict in the future. Thanks to a journalist class populated with Will Bunch types, the modern democratic state would be unable to wage war in the manner necceesary to win." Where to start. First, in your fear wracked mind, you imagine some future large scale conflcit against an enemy that has neither a Navy nor Air Force (not to mention ICBMs, etc.). Then you somehow blame our imaginary future loss on the media. so as of now you are scared to death of the Taliban AND the media. Finally, you seem to argue against democracy in times of war, and almost seem to envy the Taliban's tactics and their will to win.
Posted 05:46 PM, 10/08/2008
ClarkU
For the 45th time we need to get out of Afganistan. These wars are killing the country and are financially disasterous. Afganistan will not be conquered, ask the Brits and the Soviets. Obama's emphasis on sending more troops to that backwater is very disappointing. If we can outsource the jobs why can't we outsource the wars? If they really want Osama make someone an offer they can't refuse, declare victory and get the hell out. This is insane...
Posted 05:47 PM, 10/08/2008
SBVFT Contributor
RG - your compatriots are registering the Dallas Cowboys to vote in Nevada. Trying to hijack the foundation of our republic - the right to vote. Cancelling out the legitimate ballots of your average registered American. When I see Will Bunch start posting about that and stop second guessing our troops, then maybe I'll believe he is committed to America. Not holding my breath.
Comment removed.
Posted 05:56 PM, 10/08/2008
ClarkU
Isn't there a General in the ISI willing to neutralize Bin Laden for 50 million and a goat?
Posted 06:11 PM, 10/08/2008
rallyrally
The foul repukes posting here still are getting wrong, and all because they cannot think for themselves. They listen to Limbaugh, Fox, O'Reilly, et. all and repeat the talking points and lies. Pathetic morons, all of you Obama Haters. ODS! ODS! ODS! Dear god, hopefully you'll all just go away and hide in your conrners come Nov 5th when we all awake to President Obama, and he finally brings us the end of our most dark, long and shameful national nightmare brought to us by the G. O. P.
Posted 06:19 PM, 10/08/2008
montani semper liberi
Batty, how about the full quote? Here's the quote in the WashPost story: "We've got to get the job done there and that requires us to have enough troops so that we're not just air-raiding villages and killing civilians, which is causing enormous pressure over there." I think it speaks for itself, but let's break it down. If you have enough troops on the ground, you don't have to rely solely on air raids to acheive your objective. Air raids cause the killing of civilians. The killing of civilians doesn't sit well with the natives. Is there any military expert that would disagree?
Posted 06:38 PM, 10/08/2008
montani semper liberi
I think it should also be noted that Obama - again - got it right. The step-up in air raids this past summer is a direct result of allowing the Taliban to regroup because we've lacked the forces necessary to wipe them out. The resulting civilian casualties have created serious rifts between the Karzai government and our commanders there.
Posted 06:48 PM, 10/08/2008
George Tomezsko
Now for the translation of the above remarks by JourneyHome: Obama is far more Marxist. He is head and shoulders more leftist and socialist than even Jimmy Carter. His conduct, his grasp of the issues, are the ideas of our socialist masters, Kark Marx and Friedrich Engels. This man is a born leader (he supports abortion on demand) and he is intelligent (he considers it progress to redefine the family and to socialize the economy), a quality desperately needed at the top. He is able to communicate his ideas effectively because the major media are in the tank for him. Is this clear to everyone?
Comment removed.
Posted 07:04 PM, 10/08/2008
montani semper liberi
"(he considers it progress to redefine the family and to socialize the economy)" . . . . Funny. That's been the story of progress since the dawn of Man, but I guess conservatism means we should still be organized as nomadic clans huddled in caves fighting over scraps of rat meat.
Posted 07:30 PM, 10/08/2008
SteveMG
George, how've you been? On leave from the asylum again? While you were away, George Bush begged for and signed the bill that socialized the economy? The Republicans went along, too, but at least they held out for thirty pieces of silver.
Posted 07:53 PM, 10/08/2008
SBVFT Contributor
Four states complaining of fraudulent registrations... in a single week./////WE'RE GONNA SPREAD HAPPINESS, WE'RE GONNA SPREAD FREEDOM, OBAMA'S GONNA CHANGE IT, OBAMA'S GONNA LEAD 'EM, WE'RE GONNA CHANGE IT, AND REARRANGE IT, WE'RE GONNA CHANGE THE WORLD.......yes we can can can, yes we can can can, yes we can can can, yes we can can can, yes we can can can
Posted 07:56 PM, 10/08/2008
Damgoodbodies
MSL, is it any surprise that batboy only used the portion of the quote that fits into his lackey agenda? Then when you hit him right between the eyes with the whole quote in context he never responds. I'll tell ya, you republican lackeys are entertaining if nothing else. And for the last time who the hell keeps forgetting to lock crazy George's cell at the asylum?
Posted 08:03 PM, 10/08/2008
SBVFT Contributor
THIS JUST IN: PHILADELPHIA - "Sarah Palin's next faceoff will come at center ice at an NHL arena, not at a debate. The GOP vice presidential nominee will drop the ceremonial first puck when the Philadelphia Flyers open the regular season against the New York Rangers on Saturday. Palin, the Alaska governor and self-described "hockey mom," will join the winner of a team promotion for the "Ultimate Hockey Mom" to drop the puck." ........P.D.S. POST FROM WATCHDOG JOURNALIST WILL BUNCH IN 5....4....3....2....1....
Posted 08:09 PM, 10/08/2008
SteveMG
What's second prize, spending the whole game with Palin?
Posted 08:15 PM, 10/08/2008
Talking point sleuth
Interesting context for the charges of voter fraud: Chief members of the Bush administration will be under investigation for systematically politicizing the justice system. The Bush administration pressured state's attorney to pursue voter fraud investigations even after the attorneys had determined there was insufficient evidence to prosecute. As punishment for resisting pressure to use their office for political ends, the state's attorney were fired. You'd think that given the context, far-right loons like sloboat would be circumspect before jumping onto the voter fraud bandwagon. You know, like wait until the investigations are concluded to see whether and what kind of fraud might have taken place. Republican lackeys, accountability, and logic: like oil, water, and, well, Kool-Aid.
Posted 09:10 PM, 10/08/2008
True North
If you actually analyze the first part of Palin's statement; "Barack Obama had said that all we're doing in Afghanistan is air-raiding villages and killing civilians." with what Obama said; "And that requires us to have enough troops so that we're not just air-raiding villages and killing civilians, which is causing enormous problems there", you'll find that Palin was pretty much on the money. What Obama said, strictly speaking, is that American air strikes just kill civilians and this situation will persist until more ground troops arrive in Afghanistan (which makes no sense). So technically Palin is right, but the rest of her comment is so much partisan noise. Being a foreigner I can't say I'm much impressed by Obama's foreign policy stance. The guy is trying to be more belligerent than John McCain. He doesn't want to bring the troops home from Iraq, he wants to send them to Afghanistan. He'll annihilate anyone that threatens dear old Israel. He blames Russia, not Georgia, for the attack on South Ossetia. He's even shaken his fist at Hugo Chavez and said he's in favour of keeping the embargo against Cuba in effect. Now I know that having a bigger pair of brass balls than your opponent is considered of being of supreme importance when playing up to the average American voter. So all this tough talk may just be pandering (I do hope so) because while Obama may be the Great Black Hope to many average Americans, he and you, will still be judged by what you do on the foreign stage.
Posted 09:55 PM, 10/08/2008
RG
Thanks swifty, for sidestepping all of my points to change the topic, once again.
Posted 09:18 AM, 10/09/2008
WDRussell
Remember one thing about Ms Palin. Any wingnut fundi who thinks they are doing the will of God, is willing to commit any atrocity.
About Will Bunch
Will's book: Learn about it here and purchase it here.

Will Bunch, a senior writer at the Philadelphia Daily News, blogs about his obsessions, including national and local politics and world affairs, the media, pop music, the Philadelphia Phillies, soccer and other sports, not necessarily in that order.

E-mail Will by clicking here.

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