How did someone like Leon Panetta, former chief of staff in the Clinton administration, with no career background in intelligence, get tapped to be the new director of the Central Intelligence Agency?
He earned it -- in a number of ways, but especially when he recently wrote this in the Atlantic Monthly:
We have preached these values to the world. We have made clear that there are certain lines Americans will not cross because we respect the dignity of every human being. That pledge was written into the oath of office given to every president, "to preserve, protect, and defend the Constitution." It's what is supposed to make our leaders different from every tyrant, dictator, or despot. We are sworn to govern by the rule of law, not by brute force.
We cannot simply suspend these beliefs in the name of national security. Those who support torture may believe that we can abuse captives in certain select circumstances and still be true to our values. But that is a false compromise. We either believe in the dignity of the individual, the rule of law, and the prohibition of cruel and unusual punishment, or we don't. There is no middle ground.
We cannot and we must not use torture under any circumstances. We are better than that.
God knows the Obama team has had a couple of swings and misses here in the transition, and a big whiff with the Bill Richardson, but late in the game they're hit a home run with this selection and with his late appointments to the Justice Department, all of whom seem committed to human rights and to the Constitution.
Panetta's words show he truly wants to bring change to the intelligence community, and his experience as a top governmental official who understands the kind of information that's useful to the White House should help him carry it out. He's not a career spy? So what? We don't pick a career military person, generally, as Secretary of Defense, so maybe the CIA should be treated the same way.
Look at George H.W. Bush, who ran the CIA in 1975-76 and had their building named after him -- he wasn't a career spy (was he?). I just wish that all of Obama's Cabinet choices had sent as clear a signal as this one.
Posted by Will Bunch @ 12:33 PM
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63 comments
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Bush's job as DCI in the 70s was to protect the Agency from the inquisitive Church commission, which he did quite well. Any one who understands the CIA realizes that the Director is window dressing anyway.
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Bush had Brown running FEMA and we know how well that went. Now we are turning the CIA over to a guy with the same amount of prior experience. Buckle up folks, this is going to be a rough ride!
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The vast majority of folks in the intelligence community concur that torture is ineffective and counterproductive. Simply being against totrue isn't a qualifying criteria for heading the CIA. That said, direct experience with intelligence agencies doesn't need to be a defining criteria either - although it would be a help. What else about Panetta's experience would make him qualified? Without such qualifications, the Republican toadies would be right on this one, Will - the appointment would be cronyism. Cronyism is bad policy.
b.atkinson, the Democrats are not circulating a CD with the song "Barack the Magic Negro" on it, so give it a rest.
[Insert childish argumentum ad hominem here] Hey, at least it will get posted.
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Off topic - but have I whined yet today about how unfair everything is? I mean Americans are soooooo stupid that they've been fooled by the vast left-wing media conspiracy. Republicans are treated soooooo unfairly. They never get called on by the teacher. They never get the good cookies during snack time. The teachers never always cut their naps short. It's just sooooooo unfair, Will. It's just sooooooo unfair.
No but true to form you bash people for doing EXACTLY what you do on a 24/7 basis, then call them obsessive, then call them toadies, then you don't respond when they expose you for the coward fraud that you are and ask what seperates you from them. And BTW, you continuosly cry about what others post on here...that's whining you fuscia leotard wearing contortionist. Go back to Canada you COWARD.
“President-elect Obama made a commitment to change the way Washington does business, and the vetting process exemplifies that,” said Stephanie Cutter, chief spokeswoman for the Obama transition office. IN THE WORDS OF A DOONESBURY CLASSIC "I GUESS THERE A STILL A FEW FLAWS IN THE SYSTEM"
And the terrorists breathe a sigh of relief...
" The teachers never always cut their naps short. It's just sooooooo unfair, Will. It's just sooooooo unfair" Stop sucking up to Bunch and try to make a salient point. I agree with bpphilly, simply disagreeing with your logic doesn't qualifiy as whining, but constantly beating this silly toadie drum is getting old.
Toady Pointed Slime agrees with Will more than Will. Even Will occassionally admits he might be wrong.
Ok, Norton, re-read the thread. I made a salient point on-topic. It contained disagreement with Will, and support for the validity of disagreement with him (on the content of the disagreement divorced from toadyism). My other response was to an off-topic toady post. If you are getting tired of my responses to the Attytood Republican toadies, feel free to not read them.
Yeah, Norton. Toady PS came right out and said cronyism is bad policy!!! Next week he may enlighten us that water is wet.
Hey - GO PHILLIES, did you look up the definition of "casualties" yet? If so, why didn't you get back to me? Was it because your post on the previous thread about "facts" was completely lacking in factuality? Could that be it? If you didn't look it up, look it up now - we'll talk. K?
"Bush's job as DCI in the 70s was to protect the Agency from the inquisitive Church commission, which he did quite well." I'm not sure this is accurate. By the time Bush was sworn in as DCI (Jan 1976) the Church committee had already held their investigative hearings and were preparing their reports. It might be more accurate to say his job was to protect the Agency from the public and political fallout of the Church committee reports. And that he did quite well.
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Thanks for reading my posts closely, GO PHILLIES, but perhaps you need to read more closely still. Like, um, you know, this part: ---}}} Simply being against totrue isn't a qualifying criteria for heading the CIA. {{{--- Guess it's that problem you have with "facts" again, eh?
toady point do you have to type out whhhhhaaaaaa whhhhaaaaa every time you post or do you have a special keyboard with the crying effects set to one key?
"Will Bunch, a senior writer at the Philadelphia Daily News, blogs about his obsessions, including national and local politics..." How about updating your bio, 'politics' is too general a term to describe what you do here. Your obsessions are much more focused than that.
Must be toady ps's nap time. Sleep tight little one.
TPS, if that was directed at me, well, I was joking, but thank you for setting me straight. And it was not the cookies, but the milk. You always get the colder milk. Teacher's pet!
That's just the Sloth being the Sloth...almost like Manny, but with absolutely no talent what-so-ever other than spinning arguments and statements.
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"The vast majority of folks in the intelligence community concur that torture is ineffective and counterproductive. ...source please?"///Hey Sloth - Answer the question. Or are you preoccupied with a passionate "Twitter" back & forth with Bunch?
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*"But the single, biggest factor is, in IMO, the fact that for all the competing companies insurance costs are a non-factor."* -Table Pounding Sociopath on why GM is failing...and why his leotards chaf his inner thighs. BBWWWWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAACCCCCKKKKKKKKKKKK!!!!
Not everyone finds TPS annoying. I'm sure his mom..........hmmm maybe everybody does find him annoying.
“I know nothing about this, other than what I've read," said Senator Feinstein, who will chair the Senate Select Committee on Intelligence in the 111th Congress. "My position has consistently been that I believe the agency is best served by having an intelligence professional in charge at this time." Looks like Obama is striving for bi-partisanship - he wants everyone to hate him, Republican or Democrat. Way to go O.
I don't find TPS annoying - I don't find any of you annoying. Repetitive maybe, but not annoying.
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I love you WIll Bunch!!!! My heart gushes for your insight into politics and soccer among other things. Hey leave me alone! You're a lackey. You have homoerotic fantasies! You are so scatalogical!! Hey look up the definition of casualty and get back to me, K? You are such a toady!!! BBBWWWWWWWWWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAACCCCCCCKKKKKKKKKKKK!!! And for the record I DO NOT think that Talking Point Sleuth is annoying. In fact I think he is the smartest person to ever walk planet earth! BBBBBWWWWWWWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAACCCCCCKKKKKKKKKKKK!!!!
xi and notsoswift. the vast majority of intelligence gatherers say that torture is not productive. Sorry I don't keep chapter and verse on every one I've seen say this on talk shows, but I have yet to hear anyone in authority (other than in dick cheney's own mind) that it has worked. Please inform us who, other than Jack Bauer, who can prove that torture does pay off in good intelligence. Name some terrorist action that torture has prevented from happening. We'll wait.
Hey, bathead, if the Senate seated Burris, would you be the first one on here to rip them for seating a tainted appointee? Just wondering.
Ok, torture-lovers, We'll compare, K? Let's see whose [list] is bigger.... Brent Cavan Intelligence Analyst, Directorate of Intelligence, CIA Ray Close Directorate of Operations, CIA for 26 years—22 of them overseas; former Chief of Station, Saudi Arabia Ed Costello Counter-espionage, FBI Michael Dennehy Supervisory Special Agent for 32 years, FBI; U.S. Marine Corps for three years
Rosemary Dew Supervisory Special Agent, Counterterrorism, FBI Philip Giraldi Operations officer and counter-terrorist specialist, Directorate of Operations, CIA Michael Grimaldi Intelligence Analyst, Directorate of Intelligence, CIA; Federal law enforcement officer Mel Goodman Division Chief, Directorate of Intelligence, CIA; Professor, National Defense University; Senior Fellow, Center for International Policy Larry Johson Intelligence analysis and operations officer, CIA; Deputy Director, Office of Counter Terrorism, Department of State Richard Kovar Executive Assistant to the Deputy Director for Intelligence, CIA: Editor, Studies In Intelligence Charlotte Lang
Supervisory Special Agent, FBI W. Patrick Lang U.S. Army Colonel, Special Forces, Vietnam; Professor, U.S. Military Academy, West Point; Defense Intelligence Officer for Middle East, Defense Intelligence Agency (DIA); founding director, Defense HUMINT Service Lynne Larkin
Operations Officer, Directorate of Operations, CIA; counterintelligence; coordination among intelligence and crime prevention agencies; CIA policy coordination staff ensuring adherence to law in operations Steve Lee Intelligence Analyst for terrorism, Directorate of Intelligence, CIA Jon S. Lipsky Supervisory Special Agent, FBI David MacMichael Senior Estimates Officer, National Intelligence Council, CIA; History professor; Veteran, U.S. Marines (Korea)
Tom Maertens Foreign Service Officer and Intelligence Analyst, Department of State; Deputy Coordinator for Counter-terrorism, Department of State; National Security Council (NSC) Director for Non-Proliferation James Marcinkowski Operations Officer, Directorate of Operations, CIA by way of U.S. Navy Mary McCarthy National Intelligence Officer for Warning; Senior Director for Intelligence Programs, National Security Council Ray McGovern Intelligence Analyst, Directorate of Intelligence, CIA; morning briefer, The President’s Daily Brief; chair of National Intelligence Estimates; Co-founder, Veteran Intelligence Professionals for Sanity (VIPS) Sam Provance
U.S. Army Intelligence Analyst, Germany and Iraq (Abu Ghraib); Whistleblower Coleen Rowley Special Agent and attorney, FBI; Whistleblower on the negligence that facilitated the attacks of 9/11. CIA Officers:
Milton Bearden, Directorate of Operations
Ray Close, Directorate of Operations
Vincent Cannistraro, Directorate of Operations
Philip Giraldi, Directorate of Operations
James Marcinkowski, Directorate of Operations
Melissa Mahle, Directorate of Operations
Paul Pillar, Directorate of Intelligence
David MacMichael, Directorate of Intelligence
Melvin Goodman, Directorate of Intelligence
Ray McGovern, Directorate of Intelligence
Mary O. McCarthy, DCI professional staff
US Military and Department of Defense:
W. Patrick Lang, (Colonel, US Army retired, Director Defense Humint Services, retired)
A. D. Ackels, (Colonel, US Army, retired)
Karen Kwiatkowski, (Lt. Colonel, USAF, retired)
US Department of State:
Thomas R. Maertens, Deputy Coordinator, Office of Counter Terrorism, US Department of State
Larry C Johnson, Office of Counter Terrorism, US Department of State
Federal Bureau of Investigation:
Christopher Whitcomb, Hostage Rescue Team
I can't quite figure out which is more pathetic - the long line of Attytood Republican toadies who trip over each other to obsessively read and document each of my posts, or the long line of Attytood Republican toadies who apparently think that any normal person would base their self-esteem on how Attytood Republican toadies feel about them. LOL! When will you guys get it? The angrier you get at me, the more obsessed with me you get, the more you demonstrate that you are peons that I can do with as I wish. Look at this thread: comment after comment focused on me. Hilarious. I AM the lawgiver. Bow down to your master, fools.
Quick, bp, make a note of exactly what time I post - so you can report on it tomorrow to the other Attytood Republican toadies. OH, and btw, have you looked up the definition of "confidence interval" yet? Lol! Get back to me once you have. We'll talk. K?
Sloth staes "The vast majority of folks in the intelligence community concur that torture is ineffective and counterproductive" . Challenged to provide backup, hours upon hours later, the Sloth provides us with a list of..........about 40 names. LOL. The most prominent name - Larry Johnson - who is a nutcase and so featured prominently on Overbite's show, stated the following in an op-ed in the NYTimes on....... JULY 10, 2001: ""Judging from news reports and the portrayal of villains in our popular entertainment, Americans are bedeviled by fantasies about terrorism. They seem to believe that terrorism is the greatest threat to the United States and that it is becoming more widespread and lethal. They are likely to think that the United States is the most popular target of terrorists. And they almost certainly have the impression that extremist Islamic groups cause most terrorism.
"None of these beliefs are based in fact. ... While terrorism is not vanquished, in a world where thousands of nuclear warheads are still aimed across the continents, terrorism is not the biggest security challenge confronting the United States, and it should not be portrayed that way."
Fair enough, sloboat - I don't have a link to back up my earlier statement. I'm guilty of hyperbole. But on the other hand, anecdotally, the vast majority of intelligence experts I've read or heard denounce torture as counterproductive and ineffective. I know you loves you some torture - so why don't you provide us with a list of intelligence experts who are on record advocating for the use of torture. Shouldn't be a problem, right? I've given you 40 names (thanks for counting). You got 41? My guess is that mine is longer than yours.
retired Air Force Col. John Rothrock, who, as a young captain, headed a combat interrogation team in Vietnam. More than once he was faced with a ticking time-bomb scenario: a captured Vietcong guerrilla who knew of plans to kill Americans. What was done in such cases was "not nice," he says. "But we did not physically abuse them."...Rothrock, who is no squishy liberal, says that he doesn't know "any professional intelligence officers of my generation who would think this is a good idea."...Or listen to Army Col. Stuart Herrington, a military intelligence specialist who conducted interrogations in Vietnam, Panama and Iraq during Desert Storm, and who was sent by the Pentagon in 2003 -- long before Abu Ghraib -- to assess interrogations in Iraq. Aside from its immorality and its illegality, says Herrington, torture is simply "not a good way to get information." In his experience, nine out of 10 people can be persuaded to talk with no "stress methods" at all, let alone cruel and unusual ones. Asked whether that would be true of religiously motivated fanatics, he says that the "batting average" might be lower: "perhaps six out of ten." And if you beat up the remaining four? "They'll just tell you anything to get you to stop."
Matthew Alexander: I'm not some ivory-tower type; I served for 14 years in the U.S. Air Force, began my career as a Special Operations pilot flying helicopters, saw combat in Bosnia and Kosovo, became an Air Force counterintelligence agent, then volunteered to go to Iraq to work as a senior interrogator. What I saw in Iraq still rattles me -- both because it betrays our traditions and because it just doesn't work.
NEW YORK—Fifteen former interrogators and intelligence officials with more than 350 years collective field experience have declared that torture is an “unlawful, ineffective and counterproductive” way to gather intelligence, in a statement of principles released today.
The group of former interrogators and intelligence officials released a set of principles to guide effective interrogation practices at the conclusion of a meeting convened by Human Rights First last week in Washington. The meeting participants served with the CIA, the FBI and the U.S. military.
The principles are based on the interrogators and intelligence officials’ experiences of what works and what does not in the field. Interrogation techniques that do not resort to torture yield more complete and accurate intelligence, they say. The principles call for the creation of a well-defined single standard of conduct in interrogation and detention practices across all U.S. agencies. At stake is the loss of critical intelligence and time, as well as the United States’ reputation abroad and its credibility in demanding the humane treatment of captured Americans.
The full text of the principles and brief bios of its signers follow below.
The group gathered together in Washington last week for two days to discuss the most effective ways to obtain timely and credible information from suspected terrorists and other individuals who threaten the security of the United States, during which time they also met with Presidential campaign advisors and Members of Congress to discuss these issues.
Frank Anderson worked for the CIA from 1968 until 1995. He served three tours of duty in the Middle East as an agency station chief, headed the Afghan Task Force (1987-1989), and was chief of the Near East Division. He now runs a consulting practice that focuses on the Middle East.
* Jack Cloonan served as a special agent with the FBI from 1977 to 2002. He began investigating Al Qaeda in the early 1990’s and served as a special agent for the Bureau's Osama bin Laden unit from 1996 to 2002.
* Colonel (Ret.) Stu Herrington served thirty years as an Army intelligence officer, specializing in human intelligence/counterintelligence. He has extensive interrogation experience from service in Vietnam, Panama, and Operation Desert Storm. He has traveled to Guantanamo and Iraq at the behest of the Army to evaluate detainee exploitation operations, and he recently taught a three-day seminar on humane interrogation practices to the Army’s 201st MI Battalion, Interrogation, during its activation at Ft. Sam Houston, Texas.
* Pierre Joly has more than 39 years of military intelligence experience. He currently serves as the Vice President of Phoenix Consulting Group where he leads more than 350 employees involved in providing human intelligence training to members of the intelligence community and law enforcement agencies of the United States. Immediately before joining Phoenix he served as the Chief of Controlled Operations at DIA from 2005- 2006 and the Chief of Operations for the Iraq Survey Group in Baghdad from 2003-2004.
* Brigadier General (Ret.) David Irvine, US Army
General Irvine enlisted in the 96th Infantry Division, United States Army Reserve, in 1962. He received a direct commission in 1967 as a strategic intelligence officer. He maintained a faculty assignment for 18 years with the Sixth U.S. Army Intelligence School, and taught prisoner of war interrogation and military law to soldiers, Marines, and airmen. He retired in 2002, and his last assignment was Deputy Commander for the 96th Regional Readiness Command. General Irvine served 4 terms as a Republican legislator in the Utah House of Representatives, has served as a congressional chief of staff, and served as a commissioner on the Utah Public Utilities Commission.
* Steven M. Kleinman
Steve Kleinman is an active duty intelligence officer who has twenty-five years of operational and leadership experience in human intelligence, special survival training, and special operations. He has served as a case officer, as a strategic debriefer, and as an interrogator during Operations JUST CAUSE, DESERT STORM, and IRAQI FREEDOM. He previously served as the DoD Senior Intelligence Officer for Special Survival Training and is currently assigned as the Reserve Director of Intelligence, Surveillance, and Reconnaissance at the Air Force Special Operations Command. As an independent consultant, his engagements have included serving as a senior advisor to the Intelligence Science Board's Study on Educing Information and as a member of the faculty for the U.S. Army Behavioral Science Consulting Team Course.
* Dr. George Mandel
Dr. George Mandel, born in Berlin, Germany, came to the US in 1937. He was inducted into the U.S. Army in 1944, and after basic training was transferred to Camp Ritchie, MD, for training in military interrogation because of his knowledge of German. He was then transferred to P.O. Box 1142, outside of Washington, D.C. where he conducted interrogation of German scientists brought to this country as prisoners of war. After a brief stint at Fort Strong, outside of Boston, he returned to 1142 to continue his previous work in military intelligence until the end of the War in Europe. After discharge in 1946 he returned briefly to 1142, and then entered graduate school at Yale University, specializing in organic chemistry. After receiving his Ph.D. he began his career in biochemical pharmacology, at George Washington University School of Medicine, starting as Research Associate in 1949, and promotion to the ranks to Professor. He became chairman of the Department of Pharmacology in 1960, stepped down from that position in 1996 and currently is working there as Professor of Pharmacology & Physiology. His research work has been in drug metabolism, cancer chemotherapy and carcinogenesis.
* Joe Navarro
For 25 years, Joe Navarro worked as an FBI special agent in the area of counterintelligence and behavioral assessment. A founding member of the National Security Division’s Behavioral Analysis Program, he is on the adjunct faculty at Saint Leo University and the University of Tampa and remains a consultant to the intelligence community. Mr. Navarro is the author of a number of books about interviewing techniques and practice including Advanced Interviewing which he co-wrote with Jack Schafer and Hunting Terrorists: A Look at the Psycopathology of Terror. He currently teaches the Advanced Terrorism Interview course at the FBI.
* Torin Nelson
Torin Nelson is a veteran Human Intelligence (HUMINT) Specialist and interrogator with 16-years of experience working with military and government agencies. He has worked in major theaters of operation in Eastern Europe, the Balkans, Iraq, Afghanistan, and Guantanamo Bay, Cuba. Mr. Nelson has worked in tactical and strategic environments, both as a soldier and civilian advisor. Primary assignments include the 66th Military Intelligence and 300th Military Intelligence Brigades. He has also worked for the US Army Intelligence Center, Southern European Task Force (SETAF), the On-Site Inspection Agency (OSIA, later DTRA), Combined Joint Task Force 170 (later CJTF-Gitmo), CFLCC (Iraq), CJTF-76 (later -82/-101) (Afghanistan), NATO (IFOR, SFOR, and ISAF), as well as numerous military to military joint training exercises. Mr. Nelson is one of the founding members at the Society for Professional Human Intelligence (SPHI). He is currently working in the Middle East as a senior interrogator and mentor.
* William Quinn
William Quinn served in the United States Army from 2001 to 2006 as a human intelligence collector, interrogator, and Korean linguist. He was deployed to Iraq from February 2005 to February 2006 in support of Operation Iraqi Freedom, and was stationed at Abu Ghraib and Camp Cropper. Will is currently studying International Politics and Security Studies at Georgetown University and is a cadet in Army ROTC.
* Buck Revell
Mr. Revell served a 30-year career (1964-1994) in the FBI as a Special Agent and senior executive. From 1980 until 1991, Mr. Revell served in FBI Headquarters first as Assistant Director in charge of Criminal Investigations (including terrorism); then as Associate Deputy Director he was in charge of the Investigative, Intelligence, Counter-Terrorism and International programs of the Bureau (1985-91). In September 1987, Mr. Revell was placed in charge of a joint FBI/CIA/U.S. military operation (Operation Goldenrod) which led to the first apprehension overseas of an international terrorist. Prior to joining the FBI, Mr. Revell served as an officer and aviator in the U.S. Marine Corps, leaving active duty in 1964 as a Captain. He currently serves as the President of an international business and security consulting group based in Dallas.
* Ken Robinson
Ken Robinson served a twenty-year career in a variety of tactical, operational, and strategic assignments including Ranger, Special Forces, and clandestine special operations units. His experience includes service with the National Security Agency, Defense Intelligence Agency and the Central Intelligence Agency. Ken has extensive experience in CIA and Israeli interrogation methods and is a member of the U.S. Military Intelligence Hall of Fame.
* Roger Ruthberg
Roger Ruthberg served as an interrogator in the U.S. Army for 22 years. He conducted interrogation and counterintelligence operations during Operations Desert Storm, Joint Endeavor, and Iraqi Freedom. He currently works as an instructor in debriefing operations on contract to the Department of Defense.
* Haviland Smith
Haviland Smith is a retired CIA case officer and Station Chief who served for 26 years. He served in East and West Europe and in the Middle East. He also served for three years as Chief of the Counterterrorism Staff at the Agency, as well as a tour as Executive Assistant to the DDCI.
* Lieutenant General (Ret.) Harry E. Soyster, USA
Lieutenant General Soyster served as Director, Defense Intelligence Agency during DESERT SHIELD/STORM. He also served as Deputy Assistant Chief of Staff for Intelligence, Department of the Army, Commanding General, U.S. Army, Commanding General, U.S. Army Intelligence and Security Command and in the Joint Reconnaissance Center, Joint Chiefs of Staff. In Vietnam he was an operations officer in a field artillery battalion. Upon retirement he was VP for International Operations with Military Professional Resources Incorporated and returned to government as a Special Assistant to the SEC ARMY for WWII 60th Anniversary Commemorations completed in 2006.
‘24’ Versus the Real World
Does torture really work? Most intelligence experts say no. By Evan Thomas | Newsweek Web Exclusive http://www.newsweek.com/id/45788
Here's a good one, sloboat. Why don't you ridicule this guy? --snip-- I also know firsthand the bonds between members of the “brotherhood of the close fight.” Seeing a fellow trooper killed by a barbaric enemy can spark frustration, anger, and a desire for immediate revenge. As hard as it might be, however, we must not let these emotions lead us—or our comrades in arms—to commit hasty, illegal actions. In the event that we witness or hear of such actions, we must not let our bonds prevent us from speaking up.
Some may argue that we would be more effective if we sanctioned torture or other expedient methods to obtain information from the enemy. They would be wrong. Beyond the basic fact that such actions are illegal, history shows that they also are frequently neither useful nor necessary. Certainly, extreme physical action can make someone “talk”; however, what the individual says may be of questionable value. In fact our experience in applying the interrogation standards laid out in the Army Field Manual (2-22.3) on Human Intelligence Collector Operations that was published last year shows that the techniques in the manual work effectively and humanely in eliciting information from detainees.
We are, indeed, warriors. We train to kill our enemies. We are engaged in combat, we must pursue the enemy relentlessly, and we must be violent at times. What sets us apart from our enemies in this fight, however, is how we behave. In everything we do, we must observe the standards and values that dictate that we treat noncombatants and detainees with dignity and respect. While we are warriors, we are also all human beings. Stress caused by lengthy deployments and combat is not a sign of weakness; it is a sign that we are human. If you feel such stress, do not hesitate to talk to your chain of command, your chaplain, or a medical expert. David H. Petraeus
General, United States Army
Commanding
For me, the best thing about the Panetta appointment is that it was a clear slap at Diane Feingold and Jay Rockefeller who have let the Bush administration get away with torture. Their candidate for the job would be a CIA operative who also accepted torture. Did anyone read the story in today's Times about the extraordinary rendition (to Egypt) of yet another person who clearly had done nothing to deserve the torture and imprisonment. We applaud the folks in Illinois who expose errors in that State's capital punishment, but ignore the fate of innocent people from around the world who have been imprisoned by the Bush Administration.
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Newsweek? The same Newsweek reponsible for the fake flushed Koran story? Evan Thomas? Grandson of Norman Thomas, the Socialist Party presidential candidate in six elections from 1928 until 1948?
Sloth. There are thousands upon thousands of CIA employees. You said the "vast majority of folks in the intelligence community". You got a ways to go fella. Keep trying. LOL.
TPS-Hey buddy...I'm on your side. Think of me as the voice of reason here. You keep trying to convince everyone that you're cool (BTW I think you're totally rad), that you have a life and a girlfriend and stuff, and that you're not some obsessive nutso who has some sort of superiority complex...but I have to tell you that posting late into the night (I know I'm on here too...can't sleep), attacking posts that were made super long ago and responding 12 times in a row to some wacky conservo (that's what I like to call conservatives) seems to be a little kooky to me. It's like I'm gonna see you on one of those Dateline "To Catch a Predator" segments. There's some real weirdos on there so I wouldn't want to be part of that crowd. I'm just sayin' dude. Just chill man, go to the Asian massage parlor or something...blow off some steam and stop acting like such a psycho-maniac. But anyhoo, what are the chances I can get into your club with Will "Blogmaster" Bunch and that Montani Semper guy? I bet you guys stay up soo late!! Awesome. And oh yeah!...I noticed that mean conservo's making fun of you earlier for wearing a fuscia leotard. Is that true? Do you really wear one at yoga? If you haven't noticed yet, fuscia is my fav color and I wear leotards all the time!! Even when I'm at work! (under my regular clothes of course). Well, let me know man, I'd love to get to know you some more...we would have such good times!!
---}}} You got a ways to go fella {{{--- I said my earlier statement was hyperbolic, sloboat. Meanwhile, I've given you a pretty substantial list of experts who say that torture is ineffective and counterproductive (let alone, to most, immoral). And you? What have you got, torture lover? You got nuttin. Absolutely nuttin. As usual.
Considering the fact that Panetta is against the use of torture, I'd say Obama is making a step in the right direction with this appointment. Torture doesn't work as a viable information gathering tool. The Bush administration in so many ways has shown that it is inept and will try anything (even if it doesn't work) to push it's agenda. Most people would agree that torture is immoral and doesn't work. I have no intention of listing ALL the people in the spy community to back up this statement. TPS, as usual has blown all you neocon idiots out the water so there is no need. Obama is moving in the right direction to counteract the failed and immoral policies of Bush/Cheney. Nice job Barak! Keep it up!
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Will Bunch, a senior writer at the Philadelphia Daily News, blogs about his obsessions, including national and local politics and world affairs, the media, pop music, the Philadelphia Phillies, soccer and other sports, not necessarily in that order.
Will Bunch, a senior writer at the Philadelphia Daily News, blogs about his obsessions, including national and local politics and world affairs, the media, pop music, the Philadelphia Phillies, soccer and other sports, not necessarily in that order.
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