Jon Stewart gets it exactly right on "Climategate":
| The Daily Show With Jon Stewart | Mon - Thurs 11p / 10c | |||
| Scientists Hide Global Warming Data | ||||
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What, exactly did he nail?— SteveMG- Comment removed.
- You cant say Climategate in this newspaper.— tr88
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- The leading "researchers", on whom the UN IPCC rely totally for their global-warming scam, have been caught seemingly discussing their falsifying of data in order to perpetuate their fraud global warming, admitting that they need to falsify the data because the real data actually refutes their false claims of global warming, and also discussing how to discredit and destroy other researchers who disagree with them. OK, now queue up the insane lefty spin to explain it away... Ready? Go...— 24601
- "No climate change? Whew. That's a relief." 20,000 years ago we were in an Ice Age to where glaciers reached into Pennsylvania. 1,000 years ago the world was warmer than it is now (a period of relative human prosperity, BTW). Michael Mann's infamous hockey stick graph tried to pretend that warm period 1,000 years ago never happened. But rest assured, Mann has said in an interview that there is no evidence he ever manipulated data. Mind you, he did not deny manipulating data, just that no evidence exists that he did such. Maybe he was smart enough not to leave a trail the way Phil Jones did. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/copenhagen-climate-change-confe/6718183/Climategate-Phil-Jones-accused-of-making-error-of-judgment-by-colleague.html But the larger point is, there is a lot of history of natural climate change, and those pushing for draconian goverment action regarding the burning of fossil fuels need to meet an extraordinary level of proof that any warming we have seen over the past few decades (other than the last decade, where there was none) is human-caused. So far, the emails reveal the opposite.— db_cooper
- An interesting study of the "costs" of moving to low carbon technologies. http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg20427373.400-lowcarbon-future-we-can-afford-to-go-green.html Of course, db will dismiss it out of hand. Oh, and btw, db, there are two other data collection sources that confirm the CRU's analysis, in fact, projecting even warmer temps than the CRU did. And of course, the fact that articles were actually published discussing the "divergence" is beyond your consideration. And also, db, which articles were published that actually included the "fixed" data?— Talking point sleuth
- "Of course, db will dismiss it out of hand. " Boy, you really are in full strawman mode, TPS. Here is one of the two problems in the study: "Achieving the overall picture of low prices does require government action. The model forecasts that by 2050 natural gas and petrol will cost 160 per cent and 32 per cent more respectively. To avoid large price hikes in home heating and road transport while still hitting the 80 per cent target, the Cambridge researchers had to build two major policies into their analysis. They assumed that future governments will provide grants and other incentives to help switch all domestic heating and cooking to electricity, and invest in the infrastructure needed for electric cars to almost completely replace petroleum-fuelled vehicles." And where do goverment grants come from? Taxes. From consumers. This was a rather sneaky way of hiding the real costs. In addition, technologies such as wind and solar require on-demand generation as backup - and those typically are run with expensive natural gas generators. Also, the study looked at the energy costs of producing, say, beer - but the biggest energy cost of beer and many other goods is transporting the finished product, which I don't see reflected in your link. Beyond that, TPS, I have said on Attytood that I would be in favor of a long-term program for a diversified energy program to prepare for the day when fossil fuels are no longer widely and cheaply available - but that should be done not because of global warming hooey - because carbon credits are rapidly turning into a big corporatist scam that will only hurt consumers and enrich government programs and corporate insterests. Regarding the other data collection sources, how do we know that they didn't play games with the data as well? Climate researchers need to become completely transparent after the revelations at CRU - something they have not been to date.— db_cooper
- Oh, and TPS, I see you failed to address the fact that Mann issued a classic non-denial denial.— db_cooper
- Fair enough, db, on all accounts, with your last post.— Talking point sleuth
- Fair enough, db, on all accounts, with your last post.— Talking point sleuth
- Dang - last post got eaten by this garbage interface. Not sure what you mean by non-denial denial, db. From what I've seen, no studies used in the IPCC report used "fixed" graphs, the comments said that the "trick" would invalidate the conclusions and so it was not used in scientific papers, the "divergence" problem was the subject of scientific papers, others studies which do not use that tree ring proxy data show similar results - in fact, even greater warming. Much of what Mann did was immature and non-scientific, but I understand the tribalism mentality that the CRU developed. That is not an excuse. They absolutely should now, and should have in the past made data available. But the CRU controversy, like the debate itself, is very heavily influence by tons of bogus input from the "denialist" camp. I believe that there are perfectly valid "skeptics" out there (like Lindzen) - and the refusal of Mann et. al. to deal with people like McIntyre is unacceptable - by bogus "denialists" have also hijacked the CRU controversy also.— Talking point sleuth
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