NRA takes potshot at Philadelphia
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NRA takes potshot at Philadelphia
Talk about firing a random shot! For reasons known only to its warped minds, the NRA -- via its hyperactive Twitter feed -- sent off this stray, poorly aimed potshot this afternoon:
Philadelphia accounts for a disproportionate share of Pennsylvania’s crime.
— NRA (@NRA) February 27, 2013
The point being...exactly what? Is the National Rifle Association angry that Mayor Nutter and Philadelphia Police Chief Charles Ramsey have been high-profile supporters of the kinds of sensible gun-safety laws that the NRA opposes? Or is it just an emotional appeal to NRA members that violent crime is not so much a gun thing as a big-city thing -- in other words, a blatant, "para-racial" appeal to the idea that gun violence should be associated with places with large numbers of non-whites?
Anyone who lives or works in Philadelphia or rides its subways knows that Philadelphia is a living, breathing argument for sane gun laws -- including the kind of background checks that are supported by about 90 percent of Americans but opposed by the fringe far-right extremists who control the NRA. In fact, I was on the Market Street line when the NRA sent out its borderline offensive tweet, so my friend Joel Mathis from Philly Post beat me to the punch.
As he correctly notes, most other violent crime has been dropping in Philadelphia but murders -- 80 percent of which are commited with a gun -- have ben the rise. So perhaps if it were not so easy for folks to get their hands on guns here, the murder rate would fall off with these other crimes. Yes, I'd be the first to admit that solving urban crime is more vexing than stopping suburban mass shootings -- where banning high capacity magazines would really make a difference. But where the hell has the NRA been all these years -- suddenly now they're concern trolling Philly's crime rate?
In other words, the NRA is illogical and sending its patrons"dog whistles" about the evil of "urban" life. Sad and pathetic, but not exactly breaking news at this point.
And we are upset with the NRA comment because....... dim-5
Yes, the incidents at the Sandy Hook elementary school were tragic. And yes, the perpetrator did use a rifle that had a collapsible stock and a pistol grip. But is there a correlation between the kind of gun he had and the damage he did? It was well reported that he also had 4 handguns on him. This may sound cold hearted, but he was shooting 8 year olds at (more or less) point blank range; take the AR-15 away from him and he easily does just as much damage with the handguns. Bullets are small, magazines are small, handguns are concealable in a way that rifles are not. I'm hardly what you'd call Billy The Kid, but I can swap out a magazine in a handgun in a couple of seconds.
As for magazine limitations - telling me I'm not allowed to have more than 7 bullets in the 9mm I keep for home protection means I'm going to purchase a more powerful gun; and even then, in the hopefully unlikely event that I actually need it, I'll almost certainly be outgunned by perpetrators that don't care about complying with magazine limits. I can't help but agree, here, with the stance of my fellow gun owners that it only serves to punish law abiding citizens.
Improving background checks and imposing harsher penalties for gun crimes may help to a degree, but nothing seems to address the underlying culture of violence that is so prevalent in our city streets. Arbitrary gun-control laws like the proposed AWB represent a willful ignorance on the part of policy makers. It's simply "feel-good" policy intended to appease and garner votes from the similarly ignorant screaming masses; and does not show a serious attempt to address the underlying causes of violence and crime. bobby-d
Though I do share some of the concerns regarding registration that have already been mentioned, I am generally in favor of universal background checks and information sharing. I see the biggest hurdle to that being a technological one; i.e. implementing the actual software system. I also support increased funding for mental health, as well as mandated reporting (similar to the requirements for hospitals and counselors). With regard to the proposed "assault weapons ban", however, I must point out the ignorance surrounding the entire premise. It seems that most clamoring for it do not understand that "semi-automatic" is something very different from "fully-automatic"; and in fact does not mean "machine gun". It is one trigger pull, one bullet. Like every other non-full-auto gun. I bet most don't realize that the AR-15 ("AR", btw, does not stand for "assault rifle", it stands for "Armalite Rifle", as it was called by the company that first produced it, Armalite) is not nearly as powerful as your standard .30-06 hunting rifles that have been used to hunt dear for the past century (in fact, it is illegal in many states to use an AR-15 for hunting dear, as they're not considered powerful enough to take one down). The AWB does not identify rifles by how powerful they are, only by arbitrary features: collapsible stock (allowing you to take a 35.25" rifle and make it, gasp, a 32" rifle), pistol grip (allowing you to, gasp, hold the rifle steady), barrel shroud (allowing you to, gasp, not burn yourself on a hot barrel). It's also worth nothing that only .00017 percent of crimes (FBI) even involve these arbitrarily defined "assault weapons". bobby-d
I'm not a member of the NRA, primarily because of their extreme right leanings in non-gun related issues in recent years (seriously, stick to your business; but they do a lot of good with regard to promoting gun safety). I'm not a doomsday prepper. I'm not a conspiracy theorist.
I'm not worried about having to fight some sort of revolution. I don't have guns in every corner of my home so as to be prepared for invaders. I do not lack self-esteem or confidence in my manhood. I'm not a one-issue voter, and I did, in fact, vote for Obama in each of the last two elections because I can't abide the "legitimate rape/science denial/because god said so and he talks to me" nonsense trotted out there by the Republican party over the last 10-15 years. I'm not any of the things that it seems a lot of anti-gun folks seem to think that all gun owners must be. I'm a liberal (at least on most issues) AND a gun owner. Yes, we exist. I'm a well educated working professional who enjoys shooting holes in pieces of paper; and who takes a moderate degree of solace in knowing that, in the unlikely but possible event of someone (or multiple someones) breaking into my home, I may at least have an opportunity to protect myself and family. Forgive the autobiography, but I believe its worth pointing out that this is NOT a strictly partisan issue. bobby-d
The attention needs to move from the instrument ,to focus on the real problem. Violence is a lack of respect for one self or others. in short the people who shoot people with guns or stab others with knives have no home training. Parents should uphold their responsibility to raise their children. When you remove bibles from school you removed the moral fibers from society. Readitphilly- "When you remove bibles from school you removed the moral fibers from society."
What an ignorant comment.
To base ethical decisions on religious creed has a ‘retarding effect’ on people’s ethical thinking. Following scripture – the product of, by today’s standards deeply ignorant, primitive tribal groups, living a couple of thousand years ago – becomes the main concern, and the guide in ethical issues.
Religion is an organism, whose aim is to propagate and perpetuate itself. It has nothing intrinsically to do with morality, though must claim to be the ultimate moral arbiter, or lose probably its chief justification/excuse. wokmaster - Som wok accuses me of being backwards for clinging to "guns and religion". Well, Wok has rejected both, so it's safe to assume exactly what he clings to. I won't mention it, as the subject of onanism is not good for civil conversation. DonQ
Re-do the 2nd amendment. Let's start there. The d*mn thing was drafted 221 yrs. ago. CaptAwesome
The NRA and its leadership are nothing more than whores for manufacturers and those who live on the suffering of others. There is not a sane and impartial individual serving at the top of the NRA. This country will ultimately develop a gun subsidy program not unlike farm subsidies that pay farmers not to produce crops. The NRA and its leadership can be bought off to not produce guns and ammunition with a subsidy that ensures a standard of living comparable to what they enjoy by producing them. Doubt it, debate it, what you will. It's true. Claudio Vernight
Comment removed.- ///Every one of your "arguments" are so easily destroyed with facts and statistics///
It's the other way around, Cheswald. But it doesn't matter. Background checks for gun shows are coming. The national perception changed after Sandy Hook and there's nothing you or any of your gun-worshiping friends can do about it. wokmaster - This comment has been deleted.
Othar of the Philly People - Sorry, but your talking points are tired and falling on deaf ears. Get ready...background checks are coming. That will be a good start. Don't like it? Feel free to move - I'll supply the bubble wrap.
wokmaster
So the largest city in PA has more crime than all the many small towns in PA with a population slightly higher than whats on my street and this is news to the NRA? ceez0341
Comment removed.
You actually think these tugs are getting the guns legally? You sir, are an idiot! Also what has race have to do with the NRA's comments? You are trying to start a race issue when the actual problem is thugs getting guns illegally. MikeyRider
In America we all have the right to join a well-regulated militia and to own a musket. dearolddad
Anyone who opposes universal background checks for purchase of any firearm to prevent criminals and mentally disturbed from getting guns is a moron. Secondly if think the 2nd Amendment should provide the right to run around with an high capaciy assault weapon then follow the 2nd Amendments purpose of a well regulated militia then go enlist in the service. Uncle Sam will provide you the weapon and ammo free and send you off to exotic destinations where you can enjoy yourself ElecFact- Exactly how many people do you see "running around with an assault rifle" on a daily, or even better, yearly basis? NONE!
That weapon and ammo from Uncle Sam, isn't free. You, stupid, are paying for it with your taxes just like the rest of us are. If someone wants to LEGALLY defend themselves with a weapon that even more people are obtaining ILLEGALLY then let them. You never know when you might need it. (Perhaps tomorrow night a group of large males is going to break into a small woman's home. Damn right she should be able to defend herself in a quick, efficient manner and not have to worry about her handgun jamming.)
If you don't want to use one, then please don't. Nor should you. That doesn't give you the right to take away our right to the second amendment, which was created to keep military personnel from taking over our homes and tyrants from dictating us.
I am so sick you gun ignorant idiots spewing your idiocy all over the place. Just choose not to own a gun and shut up. Your loss. CrazySocialWorker - Even though I will accept the universal background check legislation, I don't call people who think only respectable citizens will go through the process morons. Objections like this can help create a better law.
As far as assault weapons in PA, it doesn't look like there are a lot of running around committing crimes with assault or any other rifles. If somebody on some farm or permissible state land or rifle range wants to practice with a legal assault rifle, that is their business. It will have no effect at all on Philly. It's probably a good thing to have citizens who know how to shoot well and safely.
If Philly wants to ban guns, knives, fists, feet, etc., that is O.K. with me as long as it doesn't become PA state or Federal law. If you think I'm a moron, that's O.K., too, but I'm not leaving the US. Jack Hughes
Is Philly.com so cheap that they do not use editors anymore? How you can allow this putrid sentence to be published " have ben the rise." I hope they don't pay you by the word because you might have cost yourself 20 cents. Awarm
""Since when is the truth a borderline offensive statement?" . . . . When it's pointless....intentionally"...more likely when it gashes a high holy of liberals. The point is Philly has the most restrictive gun laws in the state yet has a ridiculously higher rate of murder by gun. The juxtaposition is so vexing it will soon be Bush's fault. 2ndNlong
Get a clue Will Bunch, the Mayor and Ramsey say nothing on a daily basis on the gun crime in this city...95% done without an "Assult Weapon"...but as soon as some murder and thief kills some people in another state, those two are all over the media. Why not address the issues in Philly, and not jump on some issue that has nothing to do with Philly. The NRA was probably pointing out the hypocrisy. mikenphilly
Just another example of the NRA showing its hatred of America. Oh, and its "manhood" shortcomings. FishtownGerry
I am pro-gun, pro-universal-background check but that’s it. The FBI Uniform Crime Reports for 2011 shows in PA 636 total murders, 470 by firearms, 379 by handguns, 8 by rifle, 19 by shotgun, 73 by blade and 27 by hands or feet. Banning rifles of all types with all types of magazines wouldn’t have done much in 2011 for PA as a whole. For Philly, whatever the citizens want should determine. In fact, I think any municipality should be able to be as strict as they want, but not the whole state, county or country, except for universal background checks, which should help straw buyer prevention.
The FBI reports also show that blacks are 7 times more likely to murder than whites in the US. They are very likely to murder other blacks, though. If the black population of a municipality wants strict gun laws and they can vote them in, so be it. If they don’t, that is their right.
We have no business telling municipalities how strict their gun laws should be. We also have no right to control rural PA or any other state. I don’t want the nanny state pretending that one size fits all or passing laws that don’t make sense. FBI link is below.
http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2011/crime-in-the-u.s.-2011 Jack Hughes
Yes, background checks would certainly solve Philly's crime problems, just give the all street thugs the Instacheck number and they'll all check on each other before selling their stolen guns. MaggieL
The thing that is vexing to the Politicians is that (in this case) the NRA is correct and the Pols(and Mr. Bunch) don't want to admit it. 14% of the population account for 55% of the gun homicides. if you do the math, blacks are 7 times more likely than whites to die from a gunshot. This isn't a gun problem, it's a culture problem that is recreated over and over in cities across the nation. The statistics don't lie.
One of the other comments addressed stop and frisk...why is it that politicians are concerned with protecting the rights of criminals but are more than happy to infringe the rights of a citizen who regularly and routinely abide by our countries laws? I just don't get it. usn retired
Will you are a very prejudiced person by your opening line calling the NRA warped minded people. You wanna argur racial stats as to what race is committing more gun crimes, shootings, murders go right ahead. I beleive thes stats are sealed by the FBI the keeper of records in a database, probably by the Democrat party as providing true information would be considered, ya know RACIAL Injustice. Vom Brunhaus
"Potahot"? BS! Bullseye is what it is! blipster
Someone should tell the NRA that Philadelphia also has a disproportionate share of the people in Pennsylvania. And we live closer to each other than anywhere else in Pennsylvania. And we are more diverse than anywhere else in Pennsylvania. We have more of everything in Philadelphia. And our sister to the west, Pittsburgh, can say the same thing. OldSouthPhilly
it is obama's intent to take away our 2nd amendment. if you look at cities like philly, east LA, oakland, chicago, etc, you will find that the majority of the murders by firearms is from the thugs from the "hood" and the barrio. this article was obviously written by a liberal who loves obama and his agenda of tyranny. the 2nd amendment says we have the right to bear arms and does no limit us as to what kind. if these politicians start telling us what kind of weapons we can have pretty soon they will say we can have sticks and stones to protect ourselves. the 2nd amendment was not written for the intent of hunting and sporting as obama and biden say, it was written for the purpose of protecting ourselves from invaders and wannabe tyrants such as obama and biden. they have no respect for our constitution, our flag and our national anthem, just ask obama. if he would be honest for once in his life he would tell you that. tanker83
97% of the murderers in this city already have EXTENSIVE arrest records before they resorted to murder. Many of those arrests are for illegal guns. Yet the same democratic judges release these guys over and over again with acquittals and light probation. It's not a gun problem, it's a revolving door justice system created by democrates. TakingAstand- I would agree that within the urban communities we need to do more to control the criminals that do commit most of the crimes. I would think more police on foot presence and stop and frisk policies are needed in the urban areas of higher crimes and gun violence. Tougher judicial enforcement of the sentences for gun crimes would help as well. But, tougher laws against straw purchases as well as tightening of gun laws in other states (particularly southern states) would at least make it more difficult to maintain the supply of guns into city neighborhoods. Also, although the main point of discussion is gun crime in the city, the gun crime in the suburbs is not predominantly criminal elements creating the violence. There is a problem of domestic violence, suicide and instances of spontaneous anger issues that end up resulting in deaths because guns are so efficient at what they are meant to do.
BT23 - NRA in shocking "big cities have a disproportionate amount crime" statement, Amazing unknown news!!!!
One of the problems that I see with the gun rights argument is that law abiding gun owners do not contribute to our gun violence problem. In many perceived "safe suburban" communities, gun owners with no previous criminal records breakdown and commit acts of gun violence (suicide or attempted murder) as a result of their current state of mind. So, to pretend that these individuals that do use the power and efficiency of their guns to act out for the first time and attempt to kill others or themselves are "existing criminal elements" of relatively crime-free communities (and not "law abiding citizens") are misstating the risk associated with having highly efficient and dangerous weapons within the community. BT23
Let's look at the numbers. For 2011 (the latest comparative set I found): Philadelphia had 12% of the population of Pennsylvania, and 23% of the murders. One could call that disproportionate with no fear of error. DonQ
So, a college group from CT polls 1,800 people and, from that sample, extrapolate the opinion of all Americans? This is "Statistical lying" taken to the extreme, Will! DonQ- What is it with you? You seem to crawl out from under your rock within 5 minutes of every story having to do with guns or gun control. Yet you don't seem to comment on much of anything else.
Are you being paid to "astroturf" by the NRA? wokmaster
Truth hurts, Will. You are being a whiny baby. CD75- "Since when is the truth a borderline offensive statement?" . . . . When it's pointless....intentionally.
Wish philly.com had an IGNORE button for people like professor. If he's trying to win the Nuttiest Poster Award he can stop; he had it wrapped up months ago. wokmaster
I'm suburban, white, married w/2 kids that has a black neighbor in the same situation. I'm an NRA member he is not. Ive been to his daughter's graduation party. They are invited every 4th to watch fireworks in my yard. We have mutual respect for each other but after reading this article I wonder if I have been doing it wrong all these years. not_retired- What the hell?
CrazySocialWorker
Since when is the truth a borderline offensive statement? Will didn't argue against the validity of the statement, only the unmitigated gall to say it openly. 2ndNlong
99.9% of gun deaths in Philly are committed by guns that will still be "legal" if and when an "assault weapon" ban goes into effect.
If you think more laws against guns will reduce crime in Philly, you are sadly mistaken and ignorant.
Prosecute straw purchasers, felons with guns, bring back stop and frisk and that would reduce crime....but...wait for it...
Yep, those are all racist ideas...
So go ahead, make more laws. See you in 5-10 years still talking about gun violence in Philly! rpr333
I'm waiting to hear what South jersey frank has to say about this. AreaMan- Whatever it is, I bet it will be worth repeating.
carl and sons - This just made my night. Hahahaha!
CrazySocialWorker
The gun homicide rate for black males is over twice that for hispanic males and 15.3 times higher than non-hispanic white male. At some point that needs to be discussed. If they were my children being killed at that rate, I would demand "Stop & Frisk", not in Philly. tlee- Ironic. Blacks tend to be more often "stopped and frisked" for no particular probable cause other than skin color. Anyway, I'd welcome a discussion about race and homicide rates. It's not like it hasn't been discussed ad nauseam for at least a century, with plenty of schools of thought.
This comment has been deleted. thinkforyourself- "Out of control violence IS much more of a big city thing than a gun thing" . . . . Violence is part of human nature, and the rate of violence, and most crime, always correlates with heavy concentrations of population in Western culture and history, if for no reason than the fact that there are more opportunities for it when more people are within close proximity. Guns tend to make it especially "out of control" because they're made that way - an appliance accommodating our violent human nature. The Chinese invented them for war, not self-defense.
Hey Will, are those 90% the ones that are tweeting Congress about gun control? Those people that are being investigated as fraud accounts created by 1 of Obama's former advisors to push his agenda and not real people, are they the 90% you speak of? Taxpaying Voter
The crime rate in Philly is what it is because of Mr.Nutty and his cronies. ricciaje
high water is a racist MilesLong1- this from the poster who continually refers to the presidents as "the kenyan." america doesn't care what you think. that's why you lost the election. our country, not yours.
Hey Judges and Politicians, instead of tagerting law abiding citizens, I propose, if you get caught with an illegally purchased gun or you are carrying a legally purchased gun without your CCW license, jail, for 15 years, no plea deals or letting off the hook. If you are caught legally buying a gun, then selling it illegally to someone else, life in prison. All these other proposals for more gun control will not stop gun violence. dcn
suburban white people are monsters. high water
I'll have to take you to the range sometime Willie...I need a good laugh! dogman5
So 90% of americans agree on background checks, thats bull$#@!you could'nt get 90% to agree on anything. (HTML deleted) south jersey frank- Thanks. We got it the first time.
wokmaster
So 90% of americans agree on background checks, thats bull$#@!you could'nt get 90% to agree on anything. (HTML deleted) south jersey frank
So 90% of americans agree on background checks, thats bull$#@!you could'nt get 90% to agree on anything. (HTML deleted) south jersey frank
So 90% of americans agree on background checks, thats bull$#@!you could'nt get 90% to agree on anything. (HTML deleted) south jersey frank
So 90% of americans agree on background checks, thats bull$#@!you could'nt get 90% to agree on anything. (HTML deleted) south jersey frank
So 90% of americans agree on background checks, thats bull$#@!you could'nt get 90% to agree on anything. (HTML deleted) south jersey frank
So 90% of americans agree on background checks, thats bull$#@!you could'nt get 90% to agree on anything. (HTML deleted) south jersey frank
So 90% of americans agree on background checks, thats bull$#@!you could'nt get 90% to agree on anything. (HTML deleted) south jersey frank
So 90% of americans agree on background checks, thats bull$#@!
you could'nt get 90% to agree on anything. south jersey frank
What would "sane gun laws" do to stop criminals armed with weapons obtained illegally from shooting each other?
What is a "sane gun law"? The opposite of an "insane gun law"? Are you implying that the gun laws we have in force at present are all "insane"? DonQ
Philly's crime rate is indefensible. As is every other statistic in which we are failing miserably.It's a shining example of the systemic failure of the election-winning DNC-machine scheme of the Welfare State. It keeps us down, it keeps us broke, but it keeps us in office. That is never under the microscope though, is it? Let's keep avoiding that and blame the NRA, like you have for 30 years. tr88- Boy a few kids get shot to death and the Dems want to take our assault weapons from us. Thankfully we have the magnificent NRA protecting guns and not kids.
GO NRA GOPee_er
not illogical at all. Why are the areas with more guns less deadly? Rightly or wrongly, if you remove Philly from the equation, the stste crime rate drops dramatically. I used to live in Scranton, Lackawanna county, and there were many years with no homicides. It is not a rural county Tom813- "Why are the areas with more guns less deadly?" . . . . You can't be stupid enough to think there are more guns per capita in Scranton than Philly.
Will, I think you even know there's more to Philly's high murder rate than just easy access to guns. LouDiamondPhillipsheadScrewdriver- One word,...DRUGS
Professor1982 - Will, are you for or against "stop and frisk" policies where gun crime density is high? That is the most effective way to reduce gun crime, if that is, in fact, your goal. Mr. Smith
- NRA is right. Its just painful when someone points out the Emperor has no cloths. Most of the gun crime in Philly is committed by CRIMINALS not law abiding citizens.
What makes is worse is Obama is releasing illegal immigrants back onto the streets to make a political statement about his failed tactics with the budget deficit.
Philly needs a real commissioner and a real DA. It didn't have these kinds of problems when Rizzo was around or when Timoney was Chief. Professor1982 - BTW, notice how its only Democrats proposing laws which would turn millions of law abiding citizen gun owners into criminals.
Amazing...simply amazing. Professor1982 - Agree.
gguy - You folks are idiots! You honestly think that more restrictive laws will prevent the criminals from getting their dirty hands on a weapon of their choice? Are you insane? Facts are facts the parents not raising their children to respect life. Instead urban youths are killing eachother. Now you want to remove law abiding citizens ability to defend themselves when one of these "people" commit a violent crime. The Philly police is not the answer they are at best minutes away when seconds count. You all have blinders on to the world and refuse to face reality.
jon24601 - You're saying millions of lawful gun owners would fail a background check? Or are you saying assault weapons are like an addictive drug, incapable of kicking when its suddenly outlawed?
- Exactly! People afraid of background checks have something to hide.
dearolddad - Background checks leads to a defacto gun registry. After they chip away at our 2A rights and finally want to confiscate all guns they will have a nice long list of where every gun resides, that can not be allowed. The .gov has no right to know what I own whether it is a gun, 2 liter of soda, incandesant light bulb or 10 big screen tvs.
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