Americans owe Joe the Plumber a debt of gratitude this morning -- for helping to show the nation what the real issue with voter fraud, which is not that it's too easy for Americans to cast fradulent ballots, but that it's too hard for legitimate voters like Joe (hey, we're all on a first-name basis now) to make their vote count:
The Toledo Blade reported today that "Joe the Plumber's" name appears on Ohio voter registration rolls with a slight misspelling -- as Worzelbacher, not Wurzelbacher.
And that sort of data-entry error might be enough -- were Joe a new registrant -- to have him disqualified from voting in Ohio, Florida, or Wisconsin this year, depending on the outcome of ongoing litigation.
Purging voters or blocking their registration because of data errors is disenfranchisement by typo," said Michael Waldman, the executive director of the Brennan Center for Justice, a liberal legal group involved in litigation in those states. "Joe is a perfect example. If he were anew voter, he would be being challenged right now as not eligible to vote."
"Joe the Plumber is not committing voter fraud by having his name spelled differently on two different lists," he said.
No, he's not. If Republicans believe that voter fraud is truly a widespread problem in America, we want to see the names and the facts about actual votes that were cast illegally. Because mostly what we're seeing instead is good citizens like Joe facing a government hassle on Election Day because of other people's mistakes and laws that err on the side of undemocracy.
Posted by Will Bunch @ 1:57 PM
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63 comments
Well, when groups like ACORN register the entire Dallas Cowboys team in Ohio, it brings more scrutiny to all registrations. And allowing fraudulent votes has the exact same effect as disallowing somebody to vote.
Since he's not a musician or actor, I don't pay attention to what Joe the Plumber says.
Joe also doesn't like to tax his Ohio insomce taxes, be patient it loads very slowly: http://apps.co.lucas.oh.us/onlinedockets/Docket.aspx?STYPE=1&PAR=LN200701803-000&STARTDATE=01/01/1900&ENDDATE=01/01/2100&PARTY=0
"And allowing fraudulent votes has the exact same effect as disallowing somebody to vote...." Try again, jfar. People being registered to vote under fictitious names does not equate to fraudulent votes. The actual instances of people voting fraudulently after registering fraudulently are few and far between. What do you think will happen when some little ol' lady walks in to vote as a 6'7", 340 lb Flozell Adams. Lol!
I'm glad all those voter fraud issues you libs have been complaining about since 2000 got cleared up. Now with Obama poised to be elected, the system is clean as a whistle. By the way, when you get a name or a fact regarding all of the left's conspiracy theories from the 2000 election, please let me know.
Joe should have known that if you try to make the Messiah look bad, the full wrath will come down upon you.
Joe is also a liar. Now he says that the plumbing business he wishes to buy will not make $250K/yr, but the total cost of the business is $250K. lolz.........and McCain trots this guy out there as someone who will be adversly affected by Obama's tax? Joe wouldn't be affected one penny! http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpunch/2008/10/joe-the-plumber.html
Joe should know that lying is a sin.....
jmc. "Libz" complained about actual voter fraud - whether you agree that the fraud occurred or not - not people being registered to vote under fictitious names. You do understand the difference, don't you?
How about a fraudulent plumber? "‘Plumber’ says he has no plumbing license" http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/27207215/
Notice also, jmc, that I said that people voting fraudulently after registering fraudulently are few and far between. Other types of voter fraud are arguably more common. The reason behind that is exactly why the kind of voter fraud Republicans are whining about occurs so infrequently. How many people do you know that are willing to risk serious jail time in order to vote more than once for a candidate?
Comment removed.
TPS, there is nothing to prevent people from voting on the fraudulent registrations. And people were willing to risk jail time for a few cigarettes to fill out the phony registration forms. Why wouldn't they be willing to risk it to vote?
"Libz" want to investigate voter registration fraud... after all, it was ACORN who brought these things to the attention of authorities in the first place.
Liberals would risk a few fraudulent votes to insure everyone's vote counts. while cons would risk denying legitimate votes to avoid the risk of fraudulent votes. Which is the greater threat to democracy - facing the problem inclusively or exclusively? Maybe we could ask the veterans who actually risked their lives and sacrificed their youth to defend democracy and our right to vote.
Gibba, how do you know that Joe won't make more than $250K a year as the owner of the plumbing business?
What's wrong with getting it right? Then there is no voter fraud. Dems=always grading on the curve. Their curve.
"TPS, there is nothing to prevent people from voting on the fraudulent registrations. " That's not true. First, there are penalties if you get caught. Secondly, if I'm not mistaken, at least in many states, you need to provide some proof of residence the first time you vote after registering. Third, how likely is a little old lady voting as Flozell Adams to get caught? But MSL nails it. There is very little proven history of people voting under fraudulent registrations. Look it up. What Republicans are saying is that they'd rather have fewer minority and low-income voters than have a relatively small number of people registered fraudulently, even though there is no significant history of people utilizing fraudulent registrations to vote. Please explain that to me.
Section 303(b) of HAVA introduced a new ID
requirement for all individuals who register by
mail and have not voted previously in a Federal
election in the State in which they are applying
to register. According to the Federal law, States
must require each of these first-time voters to
present one of the following types of ID before
casting a ballot:
A voter may avoid having to show ID at the
polls by submitting a copy of one of the above-
mentioned IDs with his or her registration
application. Alternatively, the voter may choose
to include a driver’s license number or at least
the last four digits of his or her Social Security
number; if that number and the voter’s name and
date of birth match an existing State identification
record, ID will not be required at the polls. Any
first-time voter who does not comply with these
requirements may cast a provisional or fail-safe ballot. Military and overseas voters are exempt
from this requirement as are any voters, including
people with disabilities, who are entitled to vote by
absentee ballot according to Federal law
TPS, I think that everybody should vote. Once. To respond to your points: 1) threat of criminal penalties didn't prevent people from submitting fraudulent registrations; 2) what makes you think that somebody who falsifies a registration couldn't come up with fraudulent documentation (the documentation requirement is quite low -- without a valid state id, I believe a power bill will suffice, although I may be wrong); and 3) a little old lady won't try to vote as Flozell Adams. But a male could. And it isn't like the registration forms require height/weight.
Comment removed.
False registrations aside, our registration process is incredibly flawed. Every election, my parents (both Mom and Dad) get asked if they are me when they mention the last name. And I haven't lived at that address, or in that county, in over a decade. I've updated my registration every time I have moved. Why aren't the old registrations purged? If I so chose, I could easily vote a half dozen times in this election. Registration should be done by social security numbers, and there should be a nationwide, computerized system to ensure that each social votes only once. And when somebody dies, that registration should be purged.
Gibba, how do you know that Joe won't make more than $250K a year as the owner of the plumbing business?.....uh, because he said so? http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpunch/2008/10/joe-the-plumber.html
I'm already sick of Joe the Plumber.
Joe's not exactly the undecided voter he's made out to be, he's a registered Republican who voted for McCain in the primary. I call shenanigans on this whole thing.
Good points, jfar86. I'm not sure what the penalties are for submitting a fraudulent registration. I would assume that they are much higher than actually voting fraudulently, but your point is a good one notwithstanding. But the bottom line is that there is very little history of anyone successfully for voting fraudulently. On the one hand, that could be because the burden of proof is higher than simply proving a fraudulent registration. Proving someone's intent to vote fraudulently is difficult. But the fact remains that there is an extreme imbalance in the way the issue of fraudulent registrations is being played out by the Republican talking point machine. Undoubtedly, part of the reason for that may be that some, unlike yourself, would prefer that fewer minorities and low income voters go to the polls. That is a proven impact of these kinds of hype about registration. Many legit voters don't go because they fear repercussions for incorrect reasons. There have been recent examples of materials being distributed in poor communities that have deliberately propagated that misinformation. But even though not all Republicans want fewer people to vote, many see political advantage in hyping this problem in disproportion to the reality of the degree of the problem.
I'm already sick of Joe the Plumber. Joe's not exactly the undecided voter he's made out to be, he's a registered Republican who voted for McCain in the primary. I call shenanigans on this whole thing.....I agree JZan. But what is troubling is he's not a licensed plumber despite laws in Ohio requiring him to be. He has a tax lien filed against him for failing to pay income taxes and now he changes his story saying that he is thinking about buying a business for $250K. Much, much different from buying a business that will earn $250K a year. McCain, like Joe, is a fraud!
Comment removed.
A San Bernardino County Republican group has distributed a newsletter picturing Democratic presidential candidate Barack Obama on a $10 bill adorned with a watermelon, ribs and a bucket of fried chicken.
Captain, you forgot the best part of the story:
Linking Obama to demeaning racist stereotypes drew denunciations from various GOP officials after the illustration appeared in the October newsletter of the Chaffey Community Republican Women, Federated, the Riverside Press-Enterprise reported Thursday.
Diane Fedele, president of the group, said she had no racist intent.
"I never connected," she told the newspaper. "It was just food to me. It didn't mean anything else."
oh, and it was a $10 food stamp, not a $10 bill. seriously, this is what it's come to for the republicans?
"The actual instances of people voting fraudulently after registering fraudulently are few and far between." says the sloth. I see, so no big deal n' stuff and that makes it all OK I guess. Thanks for clearin that up sloth. All this FBI investigatin stuff is all so silly I guess. In fact, we should then prolly promote this behavior by maybe even subsidizing this fraudulent registratin' with taxpayer money I guess.......Oh wait, we already do.
Comment removed.
TPS - does the voter registration form include height and weight? I'm sure it doesn't include race so I guess I can show up in Ohio and tell them I'm Terrell Owens and cast a vote. Eliminating all fraud is impossible but I still don't see what is wrong with requiring a photo ID to vote.
Sweetness/light: “Obama Got Elected Throwing Out Names” - With ACORN’s rampant signature collection fraud so much in the news, we should pause to remember that not only did Obama get elected to his first political office thanks to them, but he ran unopposed because of getting his opponents taken off the ballot — because of phony signatures.The case of Alice Palmer, via Wikipedia is as good as any angle to approach this: Obama was able, however, to successfully challenge enough signatures to disqualify not only the incumbent but the other three candidates for the Democratic nomination as well, which he won unopposed. Obama himself has said that the challenges were necessitated by what he called obvious flaws in the challengers’ signature sheets. “To my mind, we were just abiding by the rules that had been set up,” he said in a 2007 interview with the Chicago Tribune.” Or, as this article from the New Republic puts it: “Instead of deferring to Palmer’s seniority, Obama challenged the very legitimacy of her petitions to get on the ballot, dispatching aides to the Chicago Board of Elections to scour Palmer’s filing papers, and, while they were at it, every other candidate’s, signature by signature. Many were fake. Obama won the challenge and cleared not just Palmer but all his potential rivals from the field.” MIND YOU, HE DID THIS TO A PERSON WHO HAD ANOINTED HIM AS HER SUCCESSOR (IN THE CHICAGO FASHION). WHAT A SWEETHEART.
"I would like one person who has referred to Obama as a socialist to explain to me how McCain isn't, after he voted for the bailout." You're right - he's advocating socialism too, but to a lesser degree. That's why I will holding my nose while pulling the lever for Johnny Mac.
Mark Steyn (10/14): "Like the fellow in Ohio yesterday who said he registered to vote 72 different times because the ACORN reps told him otherwise they wouldn't get paid. If you swamp small county offices with a gazillion registrations a month before the election, you cripple the system, you make it impossible to do basic background checks, and you make it easier for all kinds of monkey business to go on. This is why giving groups like ACORN quasi-official status is wrong. If Fred Smith wants to register to vote, Fred Smith should go to the Town Clerk's office and do it himself. The "CO" in ACORN stands for "community organizers". We should be grateful to these guys for bringing to light what a phoney-baloney Orwellian concept Obama's much vaunted "community organizing" is. Like most people, I have no wish to live in a community organized by community organizers."
To all of you attacking this guy "Joe the Plumber". Funny thing but nobody is saying anything about the questions he asked and the answer's Obama gave. He asked are you going to raise my taxes if my business makes over 250,000. Obama's side stepped criptick answer was "Yes". When asked why? Obama basically said because other people should be able to profit from his hard work. "Spread the Wealth around". I don't know about anybody else but I thought the idea of a business was to make money, not "Spread the Wealth" If I want to spread the wealth I should be able to do it my way. Hire more people, donate to organizations of my choice. But Obama feels he has the right to tell me how to "spread the Wealth". BTW Taxes are not for "Spreadinig the Wealth" they are for Military Defense of our country , roads, maybe education. Thats it. Read the Constitution.
"If you swamp small county offices with a gazillion registrations a month before the election, you cripple the system...." Lol! "If.... "Kind a like your "let's ask a Martian what he thinks" cut and paste. Where has it happened, sloboat? You know, the "gazillion" registrations that has brought the system to its knees? Seriously, bro, you raise fraudytood to new levels with each and every post.
"That's why I will holding my nose while pulling the lever for Johnny Mac....." Really amazing that you would vote for a candidate that you, yourself, have said you think in incapable of reading. Guess you don't care much about who gets elected, do you? Well, at least as long as it isn't a candidate that looks like Obama, anyway, Right?
Nick4102 - if the Republicans had a story out like this his name is misspelled garbage we would be accused of not focusing on the issues. You hit the point - what is this "spread the wealth" BS? Now Obama wants to be Robin Hood - great!!!! Hey Barrack, your tax return for 2007 had $4.2 million in income why don't you start spreading that by sending a couple hundred grand my way??
Do you know the main difference between God and Barrack Obama? God never thinks He's Barrack Obama.
"Well, at least as long as it isn't a candidate that looks like Obama, anyway, Right?" Yep. You got me. Its because he's black. The Sloth brings out the race card. It was only a matter of time. Well at least he held out longer than the DNC's lickspittle slaveys in the MSM. Where bringing up Ayers is somehow racist. I'm still waiting for someone to explain that to me. Desperation. It is to laugh.
Race card? What does race have to do with it? I meant because he's taller than McCain. Funny, though, that you would have thought of race. Obviously, you wouldn't vote for someone you have said you think is illiterate, and that you think supports socialist policies, simply based on his race. You'd never use such an irrelevant attribute. Obviously, to override those defects, it would have to be something really important that you're using as a criterion. That's why I assumed his height. Most U.S. presidents have been tall. And I know that because you're such a patriot, you'd think it would be important to vote like many Americans have in the past.
Sloth boy - your posts have to make sense in order for me to respond. What is this gibberish you're wasting everyone's time with? You're an embarrassment. Go outside and have a cig.
"Well, at least as long as it isn't a candidate that looks like Obama, anyway, Right?" Penalty flag...unsportmanlike conduct. "What does race have to do with it? I meant because he's taller than McCain." Another flag....illegal motion.
"Sloth boy - your posts have to make sense in order for me to respond." Lol! You just responded. Played like a fiddle.
Oops!... Obama Camp Caught Scrubbing Its "Fight the Smears" Webpage on ACORN (gatewaypundit.blogspot.com/2008/10/oops-obama-camp-caught-scrubbing-its.html) Nahh. No shenenigans going on with ACORN. Why they're squeaky clean. Completely above board. Nah - they're not trying to steal the election. Nah - Barry's never worked with them. Nahh - Barry' not tryin to hide nuthin. Nothing to see here. Move along. Move along. Oh - my sides.
montani semper liberi - your post makes no sense. either way, the wrong person gets elected. to use your words, one vote would be "inclusive" of criminals (something I doubt veterans of foreign wars fought for) or "exclusive" of criminals (perhaps something veterans did fight for)
I know this thread was about voter fraud, but the real message of what was involved in the conversation was totally missed by Bunch. When asked about his tax plan Obama replied in so many words that he believes in the redistribution of wealth. Does anyone hear that? Obama espoused socialism. Now he is trying to dismiss this individual by saying do you know any plumbers who make $250k? Even Biden got into the act with his inane comments. I don't know why I even bother coming to this blog. Same old BS. Not a new idea presented in eons.
The voter registration fraud and voter fraud problem is so easily solved by having voters submit their votes along with their tax returns.
Well, this evening a failed School Teacher Law School Drop Out, defended Joe as the real middle class Blue Collar Worker that represents the new Republican Party. Well unfortunatley, that's true,and also why the Republican Party and its frauds are in the position they are in today. I guess if a man who is $1,200 delinquent in state Income taxes and has a lien on his house who is asked by the Republican Party to go to the Obama Rally, and show his worries about how much more taxes he would pay if he BOUGHT a BUSINESS, and then was making over $250K is Legitimate to a desperate Group of Stepford Talk Hosts yes, he represents the Republican Party Well. - Let's think about this. Shouldn't a qualified school teacher have had the integrity to look into facts instead of taking the path of the Stepford Talk Hosts given to them by Karl Rove and his Bull Conner Thugs.
Xi How does ACORN registering Donald Duck 30 times mean even one fraudulent VOTE. Now when Donald waddles into the polling place and is told he can't vote because the owner of the pond is in forclosure, that's voter fraud
McCain should be worrying about the next drink or drug his wife is going to take, didnt she spend years in rehab??? if he wants to go there lets go there. The Black Guy McCain set up to stand there and beg him was too funny on youtube Then McCain walks over and kisses the guy the only Black person in the room looked like he planted an Actor that time. Well he missed it on good old Joe Plumber huh? I bet he wished he had chose a better guy because good old Joe is making Obama look like a Saint!
But dont worry I think McCain can get away with a steal in this Election just like Bush taught him to do.
The Left invented voter fraud. Therefore, the only question that remains is why any clinically normal human being would ever vote Democrap ever again.
Yeah, and that certain Acorn application that made the news? They really meant to register Mikey Mouse, not Mickey. Yeah, that's it. Cut me a break, Will, there is a big difference between a typo and registering members of the Dallas Cowboys to vote in Nevada. But keep up your moral equivalence game, it's what the left excels at to rationalize criminal vote fraud.
"But MSL nails it. There is very little proven history of people voting under fraudulent registrations. Look it up." Conspiracy to commit voter fraud is a crime, just as conspiracy to rob a bank is a crime, TPD - you don't have to actually rob the bank to turn the conspiracy into a criminal action - the planning itself is a crime. How many fraudulent registrations are NOT caught?
Look at how many of you attack a guy who simply asked a question! I share Joe's belief in lowering taxes across the board. The U.S. income tax code is ALREADY PROGRESSIVE. As I continue to succeed in my career I will pay more in taxes, not less, and not the same proportion or percentage. In fact, the middle class gets squeezed because of ideologically motivated tax policies like the AMT. PLEASE GET OVER YOUR POLITICAL IDEOLOGY AND STUDY THE POLICY! If you live in NY, NJ, CA, or are a resident of Philly, NYC, you pay extremely high property and income/wage taxes, which are obligations (not preferences, IMO) added back to taxable income to arrive at the AMT. On the other hand, millions of Americans receive REFUNDABLE credits such as the Earned Income Tax credit, which effectively gives low-income taxpayers more in refund then they paid in taxes. Unfair. Sounds like welfare to me. AND WHILE YOU POLITICAL JUNKIES FIGHT LIKE CHILDREN ON A PLAYGROUND, YOUR TAXES ON BASIC NEEDS IS GOING UP AND UP!!
Look at how many of you attack a guy who simply asked a question! I share Joe's belief in lowering taxes across the board. The U.S. income tax code is ALREADY PROGRESSIVE. As I continue to succeed in my career I will pay more in taxes, not less, and not the same proportion or percentage. In fact, the middle class gets squeezed because of ideologically motivated tax policies like the AMT. PLEASE GET OVER YOUR POLITICAL IDEOLOGY AND STUDY THE POLICY! If you live in NY, NJ, CA, or are a resident of Philly, NYC, you pay extremely high property and income/wage taxes, which are obligations (not preferences, IMO) added back to taxable income to arrive at the AMT. On the other hand, millions of Americans receive REFUNDABLE credits such as the Earned Income Tax credit, which effectively gives low-income taxpayers more in refund then they paid in taxes. Unfair. Sounds like welfare to me. AND WHILE YOU POLITICAL JUNKIES FIGHT LIKE CHILDREN ON A PLAYGROUND, YOUR TAXES ON BASIC NEEDS GO UP AND UP!!
I've been entering voter registration data for the Obama campaign, and I can tell you that many of the hand-written forms are illegible. Data entry mistakes shouldn't keep someone from voting, but I bet this wouldn't have happened if Joe/Sam had filled out the form more carefully -- a sloppy U can easily be read as a O. It all goes to show that our voter registration system is a shambles.
His name isn't Joe, He is registered Worlzburger not Wurzberger and in a different county than he lives in. If the Republicans have thier way "Joe" will be sent packing when he goes to vote
Since most of the new "Dee" registrations are obviously fraudulent, I think the election ought to be postponed until this mess is sorted out. I may file a lawsuit to do just that, citing the "equal protection" claims of the Fourteenth Amendment. The time is now for all real Americans to come forward -- NO RULE by the brothas and the sistas, never, ever, ever!
Real voter fraud if right wing nut jobs trying to get democrats to come to the polls a day late, ticketing and towing cars if they have Obama stickers, lying to college students by saying they would loose their scholarships if they vote, challenging every minority vote, and making threatening remarks towards people that are trying to vote. I will be glad when this election is over, so the fake plumber, the old angry war hero, and the funny speaking hockey mom can go back and hang out in “real America.”
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About Will Bunch
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Will Bunch, a senior writer at the Philadelphia Daily News, blogs about his obsessions, including national and local politics and world affairs, the media, pop music, the Philadelphia Phillies, soccer and other sports, not necessarily in that order.
Will Bunch, a senior writer at the Philadelphia Daily News, blogs about his obsessions, including national and local politics and world affairs, the media, pop music, the Philadelphia Phillies, soccer and other sports, not necessarily in that order.
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