I've been waiting for the right time to comment on the state of the Philadelphia Phillies now that I'm back...like maybe after a nice win or something. But with an 0-7 West Coast road swing looking like an actual possibility after 3 games, Jimmy Rollins has stepped forward to be the catalyst -- the catalyst for getting Phillies fans even more angry and worked up at their lackluster barely-in-first-place team.
Rollins said on Fox's incorrectly named "Best Damn Sports Show Period":
"There are times," he said. "I might catch some flak for saying this, but, you know, they're front-runners. When you're doing good, they're on your side. When you're doing bad, they're completely against you."
Rollins then mentioned the hometown of teammate, and fellow show guest, Ryan Howard as a differently wired fan base.
"For example, Ryan is from St. Louis and St. Louis, it seems like they support their team, they're out there and encouraging. In Philly, can't be no punk."
It's hard to believe that Rollins can misunderstand the fan base so badly after playing here for most of the 2000s. Philadelphia fans are different from other cities, no doubt about it, but it's a lot more complicated than just turning against you when "you're doing bad." My experience has been, for the most part, that fans here give great rewards for effort and attitude, not results, and the things that bring out the boo-birds are a) not wanting to be here in Philly (see "Drew, J.D,," and now "Wagner, Billy" or b) not hustling.
Rollins should know because, most unfortunately, he's been guilty of b) on a couple of occasions this season -- he was yanked from a game for not running full-speed on a pop-up that was dropped and benched in a key game for getting to the ballpark late. What's more, fans mistakenly thought that in the wake of Rollins' bold playoff prediction in 2007 and then the departure of clubhouse leader Aaron Rowand in the off-season, it would be J-Roll filling that void.
He hasn't. He's not a leadership kind of guy -- heck, he's not even riding the bus to games with his teammates.
So, yeah, people boo. Hasn't Rollins absorbed enough of the Philly air to understand why?
As for the team, I have no expectations. That's different from low expectations -- I just can't even guess what happens from here out. This is a franchise that makes quick direction changes (see "1980," "2007"...or "1964") but the direction they're going in now is "none." The bullpen looks totally shot from too much use early in the season, and the offense shows what can happen when a decent line-up has a string of non-career years all going at the same time. Who on this team has really out-performed expectations, other than non-regular Greg Dobbs and team MVP Brad Lidge and, until this week, Chad Durbin?
Then there's the Rowand vacuum. Yes, hindsight is 20-20 -- most of us were OK with him leaving for a too-lucrative contract in S.F., and it looks like most of us were wrong. No one has been able to step up and replace him as a leader, and what this team needs most is direction.
It's sure not getting that from J-Roll.
Boo!
Posted by Will Bunch @ 10:01 AM
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70 comments
Why does anyone even care about an athelete's opinion? All I can say is "ho-hum." If the Phillies win, what he says doesn't matter, because they won. If the Phillies lose, what he says doesn't matter because the Phillies lost. This is a total non-issue.
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acerulli, I couldn't agree more with you more. especially when you say: "Yet I have to carry that stigma every day, and hear it from the national media. The last thing I need is to have it thrown back at me by one of my own players, especially one I have loved to watch and support for the last 7 years."--------Philly fans have been good to Jimmy. I'm disappointed.
Jimmy is taking the same route as Charles, Scott, & Allen. Blame everyone but the actual person, himself. Stop crying and play ball, bighead.
bwunderlick: that is my issue, exactly. No, "philly fans" did not boo Jeff Garcia; a bunch of drunk morons at an Eagles game did. I am a "philly fan", but I did not boo Jeff Garcia for getting up, nor did I cheer Michael Irvin's career ending neck injury, nor did I throw batteries at J.D. Drew, nor did I boo Santa Claus 9 years before I was even born. Yet I have to carry that stigma every day, and hear it from the national media. The last thing I need is to have it thrown back at me by one of my own players, especially one I have loved to watch and support for the last 7 years.
"Will's picking on Rollins because he's black." - David Axelrod
didn't philly fans boo jeff garcia when he GOT UP after a huge hit two years ago? here was a player who showed heart (and eventually lead them to a playoff win) and he was booed because the fans wanted some unknown guy over him! i was back in town a few months ago and it seemed like the sports media's entire analysis of the 76ers was 'they have no stars!' they didn't have any stars, but they were a decent team, the best you could hope for with the bad management and ownership (trade korver???). doesn't anyone wonder why philly fandom always boils down to 'that guy doesn't try hard enough' and future Hall of Famers run screaming from town, glad to have escaped? to say the fans are to blame for the city's championship drought is crazy, but to say it doesn't have SOMETHING to do with it would be equally crazy....
I suppose my issue isn't so much what Jimmy said as it is the fact that the way he said it lumps me and a ton of other really great baseball fans in with a group of idiots. This can be a very ungrateful and unforgiving town to play in at times, I get it. There are a lot of idiots here, I get it. But it isn't my fault. I do my part.
acerulli, i agree front runner wasnt the right choice of wording, its the trash talk fromt he fans, howard sucks, oh now he leads in RBI n HR, hes the man ! Utley MVP !! now Utley sucks ! Its every other day I see the same users going back and forth, Rollins IS right in the fact that none of you are consistent with your likings/dislikings. Lets all keep in mind WHO is in 1ST, its been up n down with the lead, but majority has been the phils, and I see it being them at 162 games
Rick Schu never complained about the fans being front runners.
"large chuncks of the fan base didn't exactly warm up to Schmidt, Barkley, and McNabb." ... ... ... That is true, but how many is a "large chunk"? Just because they are the most vocal doesn't make them the majority. I am tired of taking flak for the 10% of the fanbase that are drunken morons. I have been to more than 30 Phillies games the last two years, and the booing that goes on there is not representative of the entire crowd, it is a small portion that is able to be heard because there is nothing going on to warrant the larger percentage a reason to cheer. I was there when Jose Reyes nearly knocked himself silly in April, and about 1,000 out of 45,000+ people booed, but the whole rest of the place was so quiet, it sounded like everyone was booing. I was one of the Phillies fans who stood up and applauded when he got to his feet, but there was never any mention of the thousands of others who joined in. This is a great sports town tortured by the behavior of a very vocal minority, and pathetic performance on and off the field by the organizations. Should we all just stop caring? Is that our only recourse, because I love baseball, and I don't want to have to walk away from the Phillies simply because other fans are jacka$$e$, nor do I want Jimmy Rollins putting me down for the behavior of so few. Not when I shell more than $100/game that I can barely afford for two tickets, parking, two hot dogs and two sodas.
"Every fanbase boos, some more than others. Philly is a demanding town. But they do not boo effort, and they do not boo winners." Just to play devils advocate, large chuncks of the fan base didn't exactly warm up to Schmidt, Barkley, and McNabb.
Jimmie boy, I don't know where you hail from but growing up here in Philly when someone called us a name we responded by saying "It takes One to know ONE". Jimmie the fact that people in other parts of the country act differently isn't proof that we are doing it wrong. We've suffered hundreds of team years of losing and we've learned that players for the most part are just paid merceneries who come through town, make too much money and act like a bitch when someone criticizes their performance.
Ressurect Steve Jeltz STAT
And another thing. Rollins and his ilk are too stupid to understand that they are paid to entertain us. Without an us there is no them. If you don't entertain the fans, i.e. (did you learn what "i.e." means in school, Jimmy?), give us the effort we pay for, the fans in this town will tell you. Jerk-Roll and his prima donna kind think they exist unto themselves only. Sellouts at the Bank, your name on the back of a six year old's jersey, your bobblehead (nice likeness, too) on a shut-in's bedside table, all mean that the fans are supporting you, you bug wit.
"I guess you think it's purely a co0ncidence that players in all sports say that that is a tough town to play in" ... ... ... I think its remarkable that this is such a tough, unforgiving town, that players love to retire here, even if they only played a small protion of their career here. I think it is telling that players in all sports do NOT say this is a "tough town to play in", but more commonly say it is a "great town to win in, but a tough town to play in when you are losing".
"living and dying and BOOING with the Phillies no matter how good it gets" ... ... ... What the heck are you talking about? how good ahs it gotten? The team is falling apart! No one... NO ONE...was booing when they were 13 over .500 in early June with a 5 gm lead in the division. No one was booing the Eagles in 2004 during their Super Bowl run. People in this town are demanding. They are impatient. But to make every single fan in a town of over 2 million people out to be so impractical and irrational by insinuating that EVERY fan boos, no matter how well the team is playing, is beyond moronic. The fans are quicker to boo here than in other places. That is the truth, and that is as far as the truth goes. No one boos when the team is successful, the players playing hard, playing right. And this nonsense that there is some other mythical city in which no one ever gets upset with the team, and they always stand up and applaud the end of every game no matter how good or bad the team is, is beyond fiction. It is lunacy. Every fanbase boos, some more than others. Philly is a demanding town. But they do not boo effort, and they do not boo winners. Jimmy Rollins is right now neither giving effort, nor winning. Plus, he has not been booed yet this year. It sure seems like he will be now.
This front runner is smart enough to say, sayonara.
{{{{ yet here they are, living and dying with the Phillies no matter how bad it gets....}}}} You meant.....living and dying and BOOING with the Phillies no matter how good it gets. Please. Philly fans love to boo. I guess you think it's purely a co0ncidence that players in all sports say that that is a tough town to play in. The funniest thing about Philly sports fans is that even though they're so tough, they whine like little girls at the slightest criticism or even perceived criticism.
I'm not trying to pack J-roll's bags and ship him out of town. All I want is to see him pull his head out of his rear end and rededicate himself to his craft. The first six years of his career my friends used to kill him because of his OBP, but I was always a vocal supporter because he never seemed to "dog it". I threw it in every one of my buddy's faces when he one the MVP last year. So I have the right to be critical of this guy when he doesn't run out balls and doesn't act as a team player. Cholly needs to hit Jimmy in the wallet next time he is late or doesn't run one out because at this point benching him hasn't helped nor has it changed his attitude for the better.
Will.i.Am: "yall proved jimmys point, lay off"... ... they are actually completely dispproving Jimmy's point. He called the fan base front runners, fans who vanish to support teams that are successful when the hometown team is not, yet here they are, living and dying with the Phillies no matter how bad it gets. That is what you, and Jimmy, and so many others do not, can not, will not understand. The fans never quit, even if the players do, and Rollins clearly has.
John Marzano could always say what fans felt. Fans can point to the times that J-Roll didn't run, was late, etc., but Johnny Mars could show you where the half hearted effort showed up at the plate or on the field. Ultimately the fans pay his multi million dollar salary, and Rollins is lucky enough to play in a city where the fans care, but he doesn't know how good he's got it. He can sit in the team box on fan appreciation day next to AI and Chris Webber, two other guys who had no idea what they did for a living.
acerulli, great point! Everyday people lose jobs because they don't meet expectations. Wouldn't you love a job where you had a guaranteed contract and no matter how poorly you performed, you made the same money? Now I know that pro athletes always say "I outperformed my contract, so I need more money", and that is a down side to thier system in a very small number of cases (ie, Westbrook), but wouldn't it be nice to have that problem?
There is one part of Rollins's diatribe I don't understand. He said, "In Philly, can't be no punk." Do other fan bases allow their players to be "punks", i.e., to dog it, to duck the media, to take games off? Why should we allow him or any other player to be a "punk"? Why would he want to play in a city that doesn't care if you are a "punk"?
yall proved jimmys point, lay off
Rollins is dead on.
Talking point sleuth, I hear what are you saying, but don't agree with your ascertion that Jimmy is basically correct on this issue. Jimmy's been loved for the time he's played in Philadelphia, and now he's ripping the fans? It just doesn't make sense. I think he is a coward for saying this while he is in LA, and not at home (at least I could respect him if he said on CSN or somewhere local). Before he looked like he was a Philadelphia athlete; this move makes he look like just another of many people outside of Philadelphia that rip the city. If you go to that game, and Rollins come to bat, just be silent. Can imagine the national response to dead silence from our fan base?
"What would you do if you worked for someone who kissed your backside and said you could do no wrong, at your highest level of performance...yet the second you slip up, the people paying your salary are already packing your desk for you?" ... ... ... ... Welcome to every job I've ever had. Employers demand employees meet expectations. Customers demand manufacturers meet expectations. Fans demand players meet expectations. It is really that simple. Owners want it to be a business; players want it to be a business. Fans treat it like a business when they are unhappy customers, all of a sudden it is supposed to be a game. Can't have it both ways...
"What would you do if you worked for someone who kissed your backside and said you could do no wrong, at your highest level of performance...yet the second you slip up, the people paying your salary are already packing your desk for you?" ... ... ... ... Welcome to every job I've ever had. Employers demand employees meet expectations. Customers demand manufacturers meet expectations. Fans demand players meet expectations. It is really that simple. Owners want it to be a business; players want it to be a business. Fans treat it like a business when they are unhappy customers, all of a sudden it is supposed to be a game. Can't have it both ways...
Well said Mr. Bunch. Totally agree with the Rowand factor.
TPS, you're an idiot. If you were sloppy in your work, handing in half finished projects to your boss and showed up late for work and meetings, would you expect to still get a pat on the back from your colleagues and a promotion from the higher ups? I didn't think so. So why do you think J-roll should get support from the fans when he puts in a half-hearted effort? Again, your a dimwit TPS.
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This could be it for J-Roll in this town.I don't know how he can "spin" out of this one.It's too bad,I always liked him.I also think he's totally wrong about the fans.Then again,he's not being paid to be intelligent.
I've probably watched 50 Phil's games this year. If J-Roll goes 5 for 5, I'll cheer. If he goes 0 fo 5, I'll boo. His opinion of Phil's fans means nothing to me. When the outcome of a ballgame or the opinion of an athlete affects my income, then I'll ramp up my emotional attachment. Until then, it's a pleasant distraction from the daily grind.
I've been wondering whether he wants to be traded and is trying to tick people, and his manager, off. Maybe he wants to go home to the West Coast.
"I'm really thinking that this is the real Rollins, and that last year was an anomoly" . . . . . . . . I agree, and I think the fans need to appreciate that fact. We may not get anything close to an MVP season from JRoll again. As a lifelong Phillies fan, I understand the dynamics. Unreasonable expectations are the natural consequence of having starved in the desert for decades and suddenly seeing a oasis on the horizon. When you find that it's nothing more than a mirage, well, you guys know what I mean. These players we bring to the City of Brotherly Love, the ones who were used to being adulated as winners since the day they joined Little League, they just don't get it.
{{{{{given how they've been playing lately, he'd have better served the team by saying, "We suck and yet we get sell outs every home game. The fish are as good and can't give away tickets. Thanks fans for your support no matter why you give it"...}}}} I just want to make sure I understand this. The fans boo Rollins because they don't think he's playing "hard enough," but he should turn around and say: "Thanks for coming out and enjoying yourself at the park as you boo me and call me names. I appreciate that very, very much?"
Players don't get booed in other cities? I find that hard to believe.
Bunch has offered to mediate the debate between Jolly Cholly Manuel and Jimmy Rollins.
Perhaps a good use of his journalistic credentials, since PNI no longer makes any $$ selling these fishwraps.
Jimmy jimmy jimmy... why don't you get it?
Lets talk about Dawk for a second, yes he is a great player, but we can all step back a second and say last year he lost a step, but Dawk will likely never be booed in this city. Why? He busts his ass on every damn play and every damn day.
I have no problem with these guys getting paid millions but I do have a problem with anyone not willing to give everything they do their all in whatever job it is they have.
The fans have turned on Jimmy because they guy hasn't hustled, he doesn't strive for greatness like he did last year. I like the guy but HE has to take the initiative to kick his game up a notch and not blame it on the fans.
given how they've been playing lately, he'd have better served the team by saying, "We suck and yet we get sell outs every home game. The fish are as good and can't give away tickets. Thanks fans for your support no matter why you give it"
I can't believe someone referenced sarcasm tags. Kudos to you Geek...
Here's some sage advice for any pro athlete in Philly...If you're about to say something and the words "I might catch some flak for saying this, but..." come into your head, just stop. There's no "might" about it, you will. Can someone organize a "cheer when JRoll strikesout, boo when he gets a hit" campaign. Sounds like a job for Howard Eskin.
not to mention that the Phils have been playing to sold out crowds all year. Don't support? go talk to teh fish who can't get anyone to their games despite their chance at winning the division. S the article says, win or loose, to be loved in Phila you gotta hustle
It's not that complicated, Jimmy. Just show up and play hard...every inning of every game. The Phillies continue to set records for failure and mediocrity, and yet fans continue to flock to see them play. Its not about demanding excellence, its about expecting effort. You, sadly, want to get a free pass every now and then because hey, you're J-Roll. Doesn't work like that. So do yourself a favor...button your lip, take some extra BP..find your swing and start putting up the numbers you'er capable of.
The fans are the reason that we have no championships?! More like cheap ownership and mismanagement or management with no cojones.
The fans are the reason that we have no championships?! More like cheap ownership and mismanagement or management with no cojones.
Jimmy needs to get his head out of his butt. The reason they suck this year is because of his horrible attitude. He wins the MVP and now he's god's gift to the world. Give me a break. Go out and play ball and keep your mouth shut. Maybe, just maybe, we'll win a championship someday. Then, of course, we'll hear how the Philly fans are the best in the world.
{{{{{{"the fans dont support the team, see record number of sellouts........."}}}}}} Good point. The fans go to the game to "support the team," not because they enjoy watching baseball.
Who said he didn't understand them? In fact, he said he knew he'd get flack, which indicates that he does understand. Just because he stated something that is true doesn't mean that he doesn't understand them.
the phils arent creating a comfortable environment - they are too focused on winning a world series - j dough needs more money and his own personal limo to/from every game - the fans dont support the team, see record number of sellouts......what a disgrace to humanity you greedy little POS!
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Phillies don't seem able to beat the good teams. Against the Nats and Pirates, they're fine...but evertime they play a team like the Angels, Mets, Marlins or Cardinals -- teams that are playoff contenders - they lose the series. Sadly, Rollins has been pedestrian this year after an MVP stud 2007.
I agree with (gulp) b.atk and TPS. Rollins shoulda known better, especially after his benchings and recent performance. That being said, the fans here, generally speaking, are nuts. Waaaaay too much negativity and "grass is greener" on the other side mentality.
For once I agree with bunch. How can one play in this city for 8 years or so and not understand the fans?
I'm sorry, is there anyone who doubts that J-Roll is basically right on this issue? There is a difference between Philly fans and fans in less cynical towns where they're more rah rah about their athletes. There's a legitimate reason for the Philly fans' cynicism - the fact that our teams have sucked for so many years - but why try to deny it. Honor your inner-self, Philly sports fans, we're cynics and proud of it.
"They are for the most part an unsophisticated, obnoxious, drunken mob, particularly the slobs that stumble into an Eagles' game....."}}}}}}} Geez, who'da guessed?: Battyboy is an elitist. There's a shocker.
The city doesn't have any major championships because it's a hostile work environment? God, I hope you intentionally left off the sarcasm tags [sarcasm] [/sarcasm] because that's funny. Ridiculous...but funny.
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You guys only seem to be proving his point..
"can't be no punk" --- umm -- can someone please translate this into English?
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I'll boo Jimmy every time he leads off a game or inning and swings at the first pitch, resulting in a shallow fly ball to right field for out number one.
Add me to the list of "frontrunners", except I define it differently that Rollins does. My definition goes something like this: as long as you bust your ass, give everything you've got and leave it all on the field, I'll support you until the final out of the season. If you tank it in the least, I'll be all over your ass. Charlie's given Rollins two strikes already...and he's coming scary close to a called third strike.
If this is Rollins' attitude toward Phillies fans, then 2010 can't come soon enough. Ship him to the AL and see how he fares. I'm more than ready to give Jason Donald a shot at the everyday SS position.
This is the real Rollins, why did he seem so much better last year, because swinging for the fences all the time, he actually hit home runs. This year, and as with most, he swings for the fence and doesnt connect, a lead off hitter gets on base, thats your job. And yeah, Philly fans show their displeasure (many times without justification, i.e. McNabb) but if you hustle and are doing your job they are there for you. Look at Burrell, for pretty much all of 2005, '06, and begining of '07 he was hated, but he started to perform the way he should and the fans arent on his case anymore.
This rubbish coming from a wanna-be baseball writer who earlier advocated banishing Howard to Single A Lakewood to work on things.
If Obama were on the Phillies, this wouldn't be an issue. The leadership void would be filled.
There are times," he said. "I might catch some flak for saying this, but, you know, they're front-runners. When you're doing good, they're on your side. When you're doing bad, they're completely against you."
Rollins then mentioned the hometown of teammate, and fellow show guest, Ryan Howard as a differently wired fan base.
"For example, Ryan is from St. Louis and St. Louis, it seems like they support their team, they're out there and encouraging. In Philly, can't be no punk."
Dude, every time you have a chance to pull away from the Mets and Marlins you blow it, your terrible play has cost the ace (who, by the way is taking the high road like you wouldn't believe) at least three wins and you just blew two games in LA that you should have won.
What kind of reception do you expect from the fans?
This is Philadelphia, not Pleasantville.
rollins continues to a big baby. you know what i dont really care about his mvp or anything right now. this team is struggling and all he has to say is blame the fans. i hope we do trade him for a starter such as halladay. he can go rot in toranto. see if he likes the fans there, if they even have any
i certainly agree with that TPD, the good thing is his value is trade is likely much higher than the real value of him.....he wants out...the phils shoudl grant that wish if we can get a front line starter or bat
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About Will Bunch
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Will Bunch, a senior writer at the Philadelphia Daily News, blogs about his obsessions, including national and local politics and world affairs, the media, pop music, the Philadelphia Phillies, soccer and other sports, not necessarily in that order.
Will Bunch, a senior writer at the Philadelphia Daily News, blogs about his obsessions, including national and local politics and world affairs, the media, pop music, the Philadelphia Phillies, soccer and other sports, not necessarily in that order.
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