I think if you went all Olbermann and did a "Stupidest Person in the World" thing, I think "Stupid" would be Nancy Pelosi, "Stupider" would be the people accusing Nancy Pelosi of covering up torture even though they also say torture is legal and necessary, and "Stupidest" would be...Harry Reid. Reid is joined by the Republicans in Congress in arguing that a) closing Gitmo will mean dumping Khalid Sheikh Mohammed out on Main Street in a small town in Kansas and b) America has the world's worst prisons, and so weak are we as a nation are technological incapable of preventing a dangerous convict from escaping.
Here's some of Reid's arguments against providing money from the closing of Guantanamo right now:
REID: I’m saying that the United States Senate, Democrats and Republicans, do not want terrorists to be released in the United States. That’s very clear.
QUESTION: No one’s talking about releasing them. We’re talking about putting them in prison somewhere in the United States.
REID: Can’t put them in prison unless you release them.
QUESTION: Sir, are you going to clarify that a little bit? …
REID: I can’t make it any more clear than the statement I have given to you. We will never allow terrorists to be released in the United States.
"Can't put them in prison unless you release them." In fairness, that line wasn't written by Reid but by his political consultant, Yogi Berra. And Reid's stance on this is driven by principle --the principle that he doesn't think he can win re-election in Nevada unless he buys into the dumbest GOP talking point that's come down the pike since...well, maybe ever, which is saying something. In fact, this reminds me of those stories you hear from the '50s about the female ex-actress candidate who was tarred as a "thespian."
Look, everybody. Some Gitmo detainees who were not hardcore jihadists -- including some who are probably innocent -- will be released abroad, as scores were under George W. Bush; some actual bad guys will be tried in American courts, and some...well we're going to have to figure out what to do about bad guys where the evidence was garnered by torture and other unlawful measures. You can think Dick Cheney for thwarting the prosecution of sworn enemies of the United States. But no matter what happens in these cases, I can assure you nobody who is held at Gitmo will be released into the United States population, and no one is escaping from a supermax-type prison, of the type where some terrorists are ALREADY JAILED.
But I do think the United States will be a better and safer place when Harry Reid is released back into the general population, in January 2011.
Posted by Will Bunch @ 9:04 PM
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49 comments
I'm not sure there is a good solution James. Begin trying the detainees at Gitmo ... those who are determined to be no threat should be sent back to their country of origin, those who are considered a risk to National Security should be sent to a US Federal prison...reopening Alcatraz wouldn't be a bad idea. Personally, I don't think this solution is any better than what we are doing presently, but the talking point has been repeated often enough by the Dems when they were not in power that we now have to do something...anything. I guess the Dems are finding out that it's a lot easier to whine than to have realistic solutions.
Legatus: Since you basically are shooting down my ideas, what do you then suggest we do with these 'people'? Give them a fair trial? Ship them to another country? Leave them where they are? Shoot them? What would you suggest?
Thoughts on the "supermax" facility in Colorado: "Senate intelligence committee Chairwoman Dianne Feinstein (D-Calif.) isn't backing off her belief that some Gitmo terror detainees should be shipped to high-security federal prisons in the U.S. — suggesting the isolated, fortress-like "Supermax" facility in Florence, Colo., as one option.
It's not clear how that state's rookie Democratic senators — Mark Udall and Michael Bennet — feel about that.
But former Colorado Sen. Ken Salazar, now President Obama's interior secretary, opposed relocating the detainees to U.S. prisons.
"We have the facilities to keep convicted terrorists behind bars indefinitely and keep them away from American citizens," Feinstein said on the Senate floor Wednesday, 24 hours after the Senate stripped $80 million from the defense supplemental that would have gone to close Gitmo.
“The Obama administration will determine which civilian and military facilities are best to accomplish these goals ... one example is the supermax facility in Florence, Colorado," she said, using a chart to illustrate its isolation from population centers.
"Here it is. It isn’t in a neighborhood. It isn’t in a community. It is an isolated supermax facility. It has 490 beds. They are reserved for the worst of the worst. This facility houses not only drug kingpins, serial murderers and gang leaders, but also terrorists who have already been convicted of crimes in this country.”
Feinstein's remarks came on a day when FBI Director Robert Mueller told the House Judiciary Committee about several potential pitfalls of docking detainees on American soil — including the use of their presence in propaganda and terrorist recruitment."
Why wouldn't the prison in a remote area become a black mark in the same way as Gitmo? What is the difference?
Then why can't we just convert an existing prison in a remote area (say, like Nevada) just to detain these potentially dangerous terrorists? I agree with your point but since prison is already a learning experience for criminals (which there doesn't seem to be a solution to), why not keep the terrorists far away from the general prision population? Personally, I have no problem with them being kept in Guantanimo but that place has become a black mark on our nation's standing around the world.
Let's just kill them all, start over. what do you say, Bunch? Or better yet, make them read your book....TORTURE!!!!!!!
James, the question of whether to relocate terrorists should not revolve around fear. As I'm sure you're aware, our prisons are a finishing school for prisoners...it's where they get their graduate degrees. What happens when you add terrorists to the mix? From the AP today: "FBI Director Robert Mueller said Wednesday that he was concerned that Guantanamo Bay detainees could support terrorism and even radicalize other inmates in high-security prisons if sent to the United States.
During an appearance before the House Judiciary Committee, Mueller did not discuss specifics but said he was generally concerned about whether such individuals might provide financial support to terror networks, radicalize others, or even take part in attacks within the United States.
Mueller's statements come a day after a federal judge ruled that the United States can continue to hold some prisoners in military detention indefinitely without any charges."
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I have confidence in our prison's systems ability to hold prisoners in maximum detention. I live about a mile from Graterford Prison and I have no problem with alleged terrorists being housed there. I understand that if I was a congressman and wanted to be re-elected, I wouldn't being supporting the housing of accused terrorists in my district. I'm not a politician however so I have no problem advocating it. I refuse to live by life in fear. Prisons are built to detain such people so why not allow them to fulfill their function?
E. Pleb., to add onto Vandy's point, not only do conservative VOTERS hold Republicans accountable, Hannity, Rush, and Coulter also hold them accountable!! Bush was excoriated for his nomination of Harriet Myers, his opening of the ports, and for his lax management of the budget. We even held Bush accountable for Iraq -- the plan to win the peace needed to be better. We agreed with Obama and his contention that Afghanistan was becoming the bigger problem and needed focus. I have to admit, that this is one of the first times that I've seen liberals admit that Harry Reid and Nancy Pelosi are buffoons, which they clearly are. And I would even advance the case that they aren't even particularly effective buffoons -- you guys have the Presidency, the Senate, and the House, but yet, you still can't seem to project an image of competence and being on the same page.
"Can't be more American than that!" Unfortunately for the folks of Two Rivers Detention Facility, the actual Senator representing the interest of Hardin, Montana, agrees with what Will believe is solely Harry Reid' stance: "Well, once again, Hardin's heart was broken. Reaction from Montana's three-man Congressional delegation was swift and unanimous, but hardly supportive. "I understand the need to create jobs, but we're not going to bring al-Qaeda to Big Sky Country — no way, not on my watch," said Sen. Max Baucus, a Democrat."
Bohica, do you have to pay Rush for using the term "Dingy Harry", or does Limbaugh pay you???
"I'd be looking at the potential dollar signs, as well!" . . . . Can't be more American than that!
and if TPS were in his distrcit , he would vote for him to support his democrat comrade
"Chickenhawks don't live in Hardin, Montana. "Somebody has to stand up and put (the Guantanamo prisoners) in their backyards. It's our patriotic duty," said Greg Smith, director of the city's Two Rivers Authority." Very true, MSL; if I had a brand-spanking new jail that was empty in the middle of nowhere like he does, I'd be looking at the potential dollar signs, as well!
More from Krauthammer, Pleb: "What is interesting is how Obama is vindicating the Bush approach on the war on terror on almost every aspect of it, including the commissions. And I think it's an admirable thing.
But I wish he wouldn't pretend in word that he is not. Indeed he is. He ought to at least admit it once in a while in word that the Bush administration had it right. .... I don't think it's a battle between the Republicans and Democrats anymore. It's Pelosi and the CIA. And as Mort indicates, you don't want to mess with the CIA, and she messed with it.
She accused it, its agents of felonies, lying. And what we're getting — and you don't want to do that, because the CIA is the keeper of the secrets.
This statement by Panetta, remember, a leading Democrat, and an Obama appointee, every word of it is a contradiction of what she said — "contemporaneous records," implying there is other stuff out there that we have which contradicts. It could be the slide show — and that the briefing was about interrogations describing the enhanced, as you said, techniques that had been used, meaning it was about what had happened a month earlier.
Her problem is that they can leak."
And Pleb, it's not those talk-show guys who provide the best arguments, much like I would never accuse you of listening to the likes of Olbermann, Maddow or even Stewart. If you care, check out a guy I find fascinating, Charles Krauthammer: ""Five minutes of explanation to James Madison, and he'll have a pretty good idea what a motorcar is (basically a steamboat on wheels; the internal combustion engine might take a few minutes more). Then try to explain to Madison how the Constitution he fathered allows the president to unilaterally guarantee the repair or replacement of every component of millions of such contraptions sold in the several states, and you will leave him slack-jawed.
In fact, we are now so deep into government intervention that constitutional objections are summarily swept aside.
Despite these astonishments, I remain more amused than alarmed. First, the notion of presidential car warranties strikes me as simply too bizarre, too comical...Obama is a leveler. He has come to narrow the divide between rich and poor. For him the ultimate social value is fairness. Fairness through leveling is the essence of Obamaism. (Asked by Charlie Gibson during a campaign debate about his support for raising capital gains taxes -- even if they caused a net revenue loss to the government -- Obama stuck to the tax hike "for purposes of fairness.") The elements are highly progressive taxation, federalized health care and higher education, and revenue-producing energy controls. The reordering of the American system will come not from these temporary interventions, into which Obama has reluctantly waded. It will come from Obama's real agenda: his holy trinity of health care, education and energy. Out of these will come a radical extension of the welfare state.
If Obama has his way, the change that is coming is a new America: "fair," leveled and social democratic. Obama didn't get elected to warranty your muffler. He's here to warranty your life."
Chickenhawks don't live in Hardin, Montana. "Somebody has to stand up and put (the Guantanamo prisoners) in their backyards. It's our patriotic duty," said Greg Smith, director of the city's Two Rivers Authority. (AP)
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"Dems politicians, just like Republican politicians, pander to fear-mongering. What else is new, Vandy?" I brought it up, TPS, because that logical statement you just made is a far, far cry from your original statement, reproduced here: 'Reid has an opinion that lines up with Attytood Republican toadies...' So now you're saying that the Attytood Republican toadies' opinions are shared by not just Reid, but every member of Congress.
"It always disturbs the marginalized minority when "The Left" is willing to hold their leaders accountable for their actions." Our Republican leaders did not hold up their end of the bargain regarding fiscal responsibility, and voters tossed them out. Pleb, please let us know what specific actions those on the left are taking to hold their leaders accountable. Have you called for Pelosi's impeachment for all her lies re: the CIA? Have you called for Reid's resignation for stating what each and every Democratic Congressman (even admitted by TPS) is thinking? Have you written Obama to complain that he hasn't fulfilled his campaign promise that the FIRST thing he would do in office is to sign the Freedom of Choice Act, or that he promised the American people would have five days to review all bills that landed on his desk before he signed them? Seriously, what have you all done to hold them accountable?
It always disturbs the marginalized minority when "The Left" is willing to hold their leaders accountable for their actions. See, "The Right" never does - they just follow blindly whatever talking points they are given on a daily basis from their intellectual heroes - comedians Rush Limbaugh, Sean Hannity, Ann Coulter and Michael Savage. The philosophy - such as it is - is based upon one notion and one notion alone - only through hating their fellow Americans can they be made to feel better about their own sad lives. You're deep in the hole guys, better keep digging.
The only thing better than Harry Reid talking is Joe Biden talking. Attention U.S. Press: Please interview Biden more. Please. I'm begging you. If you don't then journalism truly is dead. PS - Kill EFCA Now!
---}}} Name ONE Democratic congressman who is supportive of the transfer of these detainees from Gitmo to another maximum-security prison within their own districts. {{{--- Dems politicians, just like Republican politicians, pander to fear-mongering. What else is new, Vandy?
"Name one good reason to believe that these detainees would ever be released in the 'mainland'"...My apologies if the meaning of my post was a bit too complex, TPS. Let me rephrase. Name ONE Democratic congressman who is supportive of the transfer of these detainees from Gitmo to another maximum-security prison within their own districts...or anywhere on US soil, for that matter.
"It was Obama's comments that caused the downturn in tourism in LV." Slow down, take a deep breath, and think, TPS. Obama did not cause the downturn; my statement was that he fanned the flames of EXISTING anger instead of coming to the Senate Majority Leader's (of his own party) aid and perhaps making a statement in support of the hard working men and women of America's entertainment capital.
I can't help it, bill.
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Oh yeah, and right, Vandy. It was Obama's comments that caused the downturn in tourism in LV. LOL! Obviously, the Bush recession was purely coincidental. I mean who would stop wasting money gambling and scheduling expensive business trips to conventions in Las Vegas just because they HAVE LESS MONEY? I guess Obama must have made some comments about Atlantic City that I didn't hear about - since tourism is down there also.
---}}} TPS, name ONE Democratic congressman that has asked Obama to release these detainees into the mainland, let alone into to his/her district. {{{--- LOL! Name one good reason to believe that these detainees would ever be released in the "mainland," Vandy, let alone one that is actually guilty of something. That was the whole point. It isn't surprising, however, that Dem politicians will pander to populist fear-mongering, just like Republican politicians. What else is new?
will, guess what Nancy Pelosi is really, really stupid too.
As a lifelong Democrat, I have been totally embarrassed by Harry Reid for years. This really does show why we need new leadership in Congress. Lately I have liked Sheldon Whitehouse, but I suppose he is too junior. Pat Leahy? Jack Reid? almost any Democrat Senator (except maybe either Senator Nelson).
"Reid has an opinion that lines up with Attytood Republican toadies?" TPS, name ONE Democratic congressman that has asked Obama to release these detainees into the mainland, let alone into to his/her district.
Honestly, I bet Reid is secretly ticked off at Obama's willingness to fan the flames of anger at firms sponsoring trips to Las Vegas; the tourism industry in his backyard is getting hammered.
Hmmmm. Let's see. Reid wetting his pants about non-existent dangers? Check. Reid has an opinion that lines up with Attytood Republican toadies? Check. Yup, given that he's met both those criteria, I have to agree, Will. He's definitely stupid. On an "atomic scale," (h/t, bpphilly). LOL!
Harry Reid has always been really, really, stupid. It's a shame that you've just noticed it now, will.........
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bill a: Quite unfortunate as the results just prove he is an idiot.
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Obama admitted at his press conference announcing the closing of Gitmo that not all of the follow through plns were in place. He had to ask one of his staff what the plan was going to be. The response was that it was being worked on. Right in front of the press. Their reaction? Silence. They were basking in his general goodness and in awe of the messiah.
As a Dem, if we need to lose a seat, Reid's would be the first I toss to an R. He's been a total failure as Senate Majority Leader.
Don't forget his other gems today (AP): "Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid became the latest Democrat to stray into rhetorical trouble Tuesday, botching statements on three subjects in one news conference—including the fragile health of the chamber’s most senior members.
The Nevada Democrat reported that one of them, Sen. Edward Kennedy, D-Mass., was absent because he was receiving a new round of treatment for his brain cancer. Asked if the cancer was in remission, Reid replied, “As far as I know, it is, yes.”
Kennedy’s office refused to confirm Reid’s comments or make any statement in response, the public silence a classic Washington disavowal."
Like they do with Biden, I think our watchdog media does their very best to ignore this complete and total buffoon, knowing full well the damage he could do to liberals' efforts to impose their freedom killing socialist superstate.
I'll repeat my suggestion from a previous post. Why not re-open Alcatraz and let Pelosi and her San Francisco constituents enjoy the experience? Reopening the prison will create new jobs in that community, so Madam Speaker can bask in the glow of boosting SF's economy while the liberals out there can be an eyewitness to make sure the detainees are afforded every accommodation.
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There are 435 congressional districts, Will, and the majority of them are represented by Democrats. I can promise you that all 435 representatives will do everything in their power to stop the transfer of Gitmo detainees to facilities in their districts...it's not just Reid. Perhaps instead of his ridiculous statement about closing Gitmo within the year before he even had an inkling of a plan what he was going to do with them, Obama should have kept it as-is and instead worked on addressing the confusion that abounds because people mix up Gitmo with Abu Ghraib.
Looks like Obama is doing exactly what GW did. Like a said before Obama may actually be more stupid than GW, the great teleprompter reader has been awful. Gay Marriage, Gitmo and won't release abuse photo's, he is GW2. Static I can believe in! I voted independent unlike you Obama dopes.
Boring..........Of course you would revert back to the ole' blame Dick Cheney rant when you have absolutely nothing to offer in terms of *simple suggestions*, let alone solutions. Please. ---"Some Gitmo detainees who were not hardcore jihadists -- including some who are probably innocent"--- Oh really? Could you define a 'soft-core jihadist' or show an example of such? And this qualifies as your "balance" for you blog.........spare me.
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Will Bunch, a senior writer at the Philadelphia Daily News, blogs about his obsessions, including national and local politics and world affairs, the media, pop music, the Philadelphia Phillies, soccer and other sports, not necessarily in that order.
Will Bunch, a senior writer at the Philadelphia Daily News, blogs about his obsessions, including national and local politics and world affairs, the media, pop music, the Philadelphia Phillies, soccer and other sports, not necessarily in that order.
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