Fuzzy math: When 37 is greater than 63 -- today's open thread
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Fuzzy math: When 37 is greater than 63 -- today's open thread
His name is James Fallows, and these are "the brakes":
Let's round the figures to 63/37 and apply them to the health care debate. Senators representing 63 percent of the public vote for the bill; those representing 37 percent vote against it. The bill fails.
This is just as a point of information. The Constitution was designed as a system of checks and balances. As explained in my article, that image is being replaced by one of brakes:
Just about the only positive -- and it's a small one -- to come out of the recent crisis of confidence in America, which now spans broadly across both parties, is that people are re-thinking the big picture on things such as the filibuster, which have created a situation that, as Fallows writes, goes well beyond the "checks and balances" that most of us have come to appreciate.
Another Fallows post explains this map, which divides America into 50 new states of roughly equal populaton, including, I'd note, the state of "Philadelphia," which presumably would declare Ed Rendell as governor for life right after it named scrapple as the official state meat.
As I warned you at the start of the yeat, the daily open thread rule is in effect until April. The time's yours.
Comments (82)
health care would still pass if democrats would vote for their own bill. the filibuster has little to do with it.— bobbyd24
Comment removed.- McCain won more counties throughout the country than Obama. Counties are even more representative than states. McCain should therefore be President, right Wilbur??????????— WriteWinger
- If that were the case WriteWinger then Gore should have been President in 2000.— samtheshampharaoh
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- What? A map?- did the liberals and democrats miss the VOTE in Mass.? You know- the most Liberal state in the U.S. went to a republican?— Manny Trillo
- Smells like teen hypocricy. Remember William Pryor Jr. or Charles Pickering or Priscilla Owen or Miguel Estrada? Of course not.— A Friend
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"The American people wholeheartedly reject this government takeover of healthcare." . . . . . No wonder. 54% of them want a public option. (CNN/ORC 1/10/10)- Obama- "Children this is called a Teleprompter- hopefully you will not need to read from one when you are president like I do. Even though I was touted as an Ivy league genius by the Liberal MSM- I cannot give a speech without my Teleprompter."— Manny Trillo
The byproduct of the federal government not getting anything done is liberty, and I'm fine with that.— jmc- Comment removed.
- Where is the "Marginalized Minority" guy? Have not heard from him since Scott Brown spanked Obama's candidate......— Manny Trillo
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- "The problem Will is those senators who represent the public are not voting the public's wishes." . . . . . . Corporations are the "public", didn't you hear?
- Anyone see the Robert Gibbs on FOX yesterday? The Scott Brown victory was "no refelction on Obama"- strange- because OBAMA WENT TO MASS. TO CAMPAIGN FOR MARTHA COAKLEY a couple days befor the vote!!!!! Obama is a real good luck charm- 0-7 that's 0 wins for Tommy Teleprompter!— Manny Trillo
- "Just about the only positive...is that people are re-thinking the big picture on things such as the filibuster..." You have got to be kidding, you hypocrite. Filibuster was fine and dandy when used to block conservative judges but now not so much? So, to be sure, the positive to come out of the collapse of the Democrat party is the end of the economy-destroying government healthcare takeover and the completely fraudulent sham of global warming/cap-and-tax which was also just another government takeover of private sector (i.e. energy sector). Oh, and another positive is to watch the liberals in the media running around desperately trying to apologize, excuse, spin, ignore, explain away, and otherwise delude themselves about the reality of the complete rejection of Obama's socialist programs.— 24601
- Bunch et al - The founders created a Republic, not a pure democracy. It has worked rather well for 200 plus years, blunts the rule of the mob, and should NOT be dismantled for health care or anyother liberal pet project. Check Civics 101 if they still teach that...— 23
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- "Filibuster was fine and dandy when used to block conservative judges but now not so much?" . . . . . Obviously it depends, doesn't it. The framers vested the un-democratic Senate with sole power to approve judicial nominees, so they apparently didn't see it as a populist issue.
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- Ladies and gentlemen - I give you the words of an elected leader in today's Republican Party. A fine example that the hatred and bile spewed daily by Attytood's "conservatives" are, unfortunately, broadly representative: --snip-- GREENVILLE - Lt. Gov. Andre Bauer has compared giving people government assistance to "feeding stray animals." Bauer, who is running for the Republican nomination for governor, made his remarks during a town hall meeting in Fountain Inn that included state lawmakers and about 115 residents. "My grandmother was not a highly educated woman, but she told me as a small child to quit feeding stray animals. You know why? Because they breed. You're facilitating the problem if you give an animal or a person ample food supply. They will reproduce, especially ones that don't think too much further than that. And so what you've got to do is you've got to curtail that type of behavior. They don't know any better," Bauer said. In South Carolina, 58 percent of students participate in the free and reduced-price lunch program. --snip-- Nice.— Talking point sleuth
- ---}} Gee, why do they feel the need to label it a "public" option? Isn't it a "government" option? Why do you suppose they do that? {{---- "Mommy, mommy, they won't describe offering the public an option the way I WANT them to describe it. Make them talk the way I want, mommy."— Talking point sleuth
- Does Obama need the Teleprompter whe he is talking to himself?— Manny Trillo
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- Off back-country snowshoeing in rural Vermont, sloboat. Might as well take advantage of all this "global cooling" while it lasts. Interesting to see that nothing changed here: the same whiners whining away.— Talking point sleuth
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Will, you should go back and study how the government was founded. The idea was not to "get things done" but to make it very hard to "get things done" outside of fighting wars and collecting taxes.- TPS, the irony of Bauer quoting is grandmother is that she probably lived everyday by the golden rule; and as for what to do about those stray varmints, she must've forgot to tell little Andre about things like the humane society.
I'm sure Bauer's grandmother was just another typical white person.— bird11- WRONG AGAIN samthesham, Republicans always win the most COUNTIES! And let not a second more go by before we all wish Air America a fond GOODBYE! Wilbur, let's hope the HufPuf never goes out; where else would you get your ideas for the day?— WriteWinger
- I mean seriously, think about this quote for a second: --snip--.... You're facilitating the problem if you give an animal or a person ample food supply.... --snip-- Imagine that, giving a person an "ample food supply." How could anyone not realize that to do so is just "facilitating the problem?" What next? Will Dems and libz advocate actually funding education for the poor? Don't they realize that early childhood education has proven to promote cognitive development? If they develop their thinking they might then be less likely to go hungry, and thus continue to "breed."— Talking point sleuth
- ---}} I'm sure Bauer's grandmother was just another typical white person. {---- Ah yes. I see that despite my absence, Attytood's "conservatives" haven't stopped whining "Mommy, mommy, they did it fiiirrrrssst, Mommy" as a lame defense of Republican scumbuckets.— Talking point sleuth
- "Bunch et al - The founders created a Republic, not a pure democracy. It has worked rather well for 200 plus years" . . . . . . Indeed, its been frequently amended to expand democracy - e.g., sufferage for blacks, women, and 18 year olds, the popular election of senators, the elimination of the poll tax, and on and on. Of course, in theory, it could be amended to create fascism too if you like.
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Actually most polling indicates the public support of health care reform is about that, 65% for and 35% against. And sorry Swifty but those are real facts, not Glenn Becks "Factisms". I am not sure why you wingers continue to make stuff up. Remember, just because Rush or Glenn says it, doe not make it true. And. That. Is. A. Fact!— Les Ismore- Winning counties and winnning votes are 2 different things. As wingnuts like to point out, great swathes of America voted for McCain but most of them are very lightly populated. Another one of the wingnuts favorite talking points...."Jeepers Gomer, how could we have lost when we won all of those sheep votes" hahaha— Les Ismore
- Democrats/ Liberals- was it a nice year for you in 2009? Wow- your "reign" lasted one year- great job- 20% of the USA people say they are liberals- but according to the geniuses here that is a majority!— Manny Trillo
- I need to buy a Teleprompter- I think it would help me when I make sales presentations- anyone know how much thye cost? Does the White House have any used ones?— Manny Trillo
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- Hey Les Ismore- you sound like a fan of the NY Jets who just got beat- yet still act like you are a winner? Your president is going down in flames, your democratic congress is a joke, you just loss a Senator in liberal Mass.- your healthcare reform is shelved... should I go on? But remember it's not if you win......— Manny Trillo
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- Yo Manny! Why no love for the J-E-T-S JETS JETS JETS??? Baby Buddy's squad became the easy choice for me to root for after the Eagles signed Vick.— bird11
- BIRD- I WANTED THE JETS TO WIN!! I was just using a losing team asd an example- guess I could have used the Vikings........Love Rex Ryan- I sat in a box with Buddy one time in 2004- great guy.— Manny Trillo
- Manny - Buddy Ryan and Andy Reid both have the same number of Super Bowls but Buddy at least made it fun. My gang used to go to see his radio show back in the day - at Rib-It I think. One of my friends was dating his secretary at the time so we always had a table reserved and he would come over and talk with us after the show. You're right - GREAT GUY!!— bird11
- This board was so much more entertaining before Talking Point Sleuth showed up. His arrival is like someone passing gas in an elevator. Everyone scrambles to get the heck out as soon as they can.— General_Turgidson
- Rumor is, during his State of the Union speech, Obama will rate his performance in 2009 as "outstanding."— General_Turgidson
- I guess none of our slow right wing friends have figured out that this was representative of just figures in general, not the health care debate. As usual, just spew your hate and move on.— HandNik
- General, considering Obama's approval numbers are about as good as Reagan's first year, are you suggesting that "outstanding" would be a myth?
- MSL, I couldn't care less about approval numbers. All I see is an administration that did very little to lift the economy for the last 12 months, following an administration that did next to nothing for the 12 months before that. To quote James "Jello-Neck" Carville, it's the economy, stupid.— General_Turgidson
- "Rib It"!!! that brings back some memories Bird.— Manny Trillo
- Les Ismore needs to go back to school to learn how to read. I recommend a private school Les. You don't want to go back where you probably came from and repeat the same mistakes.— WriteWinger
- Can one of you "Logical" Liberals explain how Obama has not failed in his first year?.........and why you are at it explain why a "genius, intellectual, Havard grad, lawyer, God like man" needs a Teleprompter?..... I gave a half hour presentation in front of 200 people at my company with a page of handwritten notes- and I only went to St Joe's.....— Manny Trillo
- "MSL, I couldn't care less about approval numbers." . . . . . Of course, you're just offering your own opinion. Then pardon me if I couldn't care less.
- "Can one of you "Logical" Liberals explain how Obama has not failed in his first year?" . . . . . Easy. No successful terrorist attack on US soil since he took office. Anyway, that used to be the measure of success. What's the current measure?
- MSL - I think you are forgetting Fort Hood.— bird11
OBAMA GIVES AFGHANISTAN NO BID CONTRACT TO DEMOCRAT DONOR: http://tinyurl.com/yhjo2u4- When a party has the White House, a filibuster-proof majority in the Senate and a massive majority in the House and still can't get something passed in year, the problem isn't the brakes. The problem is the competence of the driver.— Illiniwek
- yes, and Fort Hood was the second one— TommyTeleprompter
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- Wow, my bad. I made a mistake earlier, pointing out the moral bankruptcy of the Republican SC Lt. Governor when he said that feeding poor children is "facilitating a problem" because they then might "breed" if they aren't left to starve. I misunderstood his comments. Fortunately, he offered a clarification: --snip-- "...what I was trying to talk about was a dependence culture, and that just like when you feed animals, you create a dependency." Nice. Feeding poor children is "just like when you feed animals." Nice.— Talking point sleuth
- More Fuzzy Math Figures on government spending and debt (last six digits are eliminated). The government's fiscal year runs Oct. 1 through Sept. 30. Total public debt subject to limit Jan. 22 12,245,872 Statutory debt limit 12,394,000 Total public debt outstanding Jan. 22 12,302,465 Operating balance Jan. 22 142,454 Interest fiscal year 2009 383,365 Interest fiscal year 2008 451,154 Deficit fiscal year 2009 1,417,121 Deficit fiscal year 2008 454,798 Receipts fiscal year 2009 2,104,613 Receipts fiscal year 2008 2,523,642 Outlays fiscal year 2009 3,521,734 Outlays fiscal year 2008 2,978,440 Gold assets in September 11,041 60-1=59 more to get voted out because of the fuzzy math above.— Fisher
- Well, put your money where your mouth is: What grade would give Obama? My grade: C. The Iraq situation is stabilizing, and he did the right thing on Afghanistan. The banks were stabilized, but I didn't necessarily like the way that was done, and I definitely didn't like the government takeover of the auto industry. I think the healthcare initiative is an abject failure at the moment, similar to Bush's social security plan. My overall view is that we hired a naive, inexperienced person who believed his own hype and got dealt a pretty good smack in the mouth over the last 3-5 months. I'm hoping it settles him down, and he focuses on what's important: creating jobs, lowering taxes, increasing our security, overall economic security. Once he's done with that, then let's talk healthcare.— IggleFan68
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""The problem Will is those senators who represent the public are not voting the public's wishes." . . . . . . Corporations are the "public", didn't you hear?" I heard the rights of desert mice are on the rise as well ;)— Hamlet
The Republicans have used filibuster more in these last 3 years than the Democrats ever did. Just sayin...- "The byproduct of the federal government not getting anything done is liberty, and I'm fine with that." Yeah, that would have worked out great after Pearl Harbor.
- "The Scott Brown victory was "no refelction on Obama"- strange- because OBAMA WENT TO MASS. TO CAMPAIGN FOR MARTHA COAKLEY a couple days befor the vote!!!!!" Hmmmm...and yet, Obama has comparable favorablity ratings to Reagan at the same point in his presidency...I guess Reagan wasn't God after all...or Obama is?
You spoiled brat libs disgust me. From 1995 - 2008, when the R's had control of the Senate, the filibuster was the greatest invention of the American Republic, a cornerstone of our form of government. But now, with power hungry regressives in control, the filibuster must go because it leads to "obstruction". The hypocrisy is overwhelming!! And before anyone complains about Frist and the "Nuclear Option" circa 2006, remember that was suggested as a way to break a logjam of judicial appointees, not shove legislation down anyone's throat. One of the duties of the Senate is confirmation of judicial appointees and that duty was not being fulfilled. All nominees deserve an up and down vote; Obama nominations also.— rudytbone- BHL...."The Republicans have used filibuster more in these last 3 years than the Democrats ever did. Just sayin..." That is correct. Because when the R's controlled the Senate, they worked with the minority to produce bills acceptable to both parties. They cooperated. They did not have closed door meetings and exclude the minority from negotiations. The R's did not force votes on legislation that had not even been finalized yet. You regressives are all spoiled brats!— rudytbone
- "That is correct. Because when the R's controlled the Senate, they worked with the minority to produce bills acceptable to both parties. They cooperated. They did not have closed door meetings and exclude the minority from negotiations. The R's did not force votes on legislation that had not even been finalized yet. You regressives are all spoiled brats!" Actually it was the Democrats who cooperated, by caving to the Republicans every whim. The Republicans have set a record on their use of the filibuster recently. As to jamming legislation down anyone's throat, you are rewriting history to suit your own world view, tbone. Have you seen the Democrats infighting? They can't agree among themselves as to what to have a vote on, let alone "force votes". Meanwhile the Republicans have decided to not work with the Democrats and just simply say "no" to everything, which explains why their favorability ratings are lower than the Dems, if that is possible. And yes, I will bring up the nuclear option because it was suggested by Repubicans. The Senate was a lot more even in votes at the time, the elections of 2000 and 2004 were remarkably close, and yet the Republicans were only interested in jamming their nominees down the throats of the Senate. And interestingly the Republicans are currently holding up far more of Obama nominees for his government than the Democrats ever did of Bush's. Keep looking through that right wing prism, it will make you go blind.
- BHL, pot, meet kettle. You must extremely myopic to have hindsight like that. Your grasp of your "facts" is tenuous at best. It's truly amazing that when Dems compromise, it's "caving", but when R's compromise it's "Good Government". The ultimate "everything's fine as long as you do it my way". Yes, the Dems did not use the filibuster, BECAUSE THE R'S INVITED THEM TO THE TABLE TO NEGOTIATE!!!!!!111!!!! This congress is not doing that. Of course the R's are voting no. THEY HAVE NOT HAD A SEAT AT THE TABLE!!!!!!! Do you honestly think anyone should vote yes on any of these crapsandwich bills? You are tone deaf and out of touch!— rudytbone
- This congress is not doing that. Of course the R's are voting no. "THEY HAVE NOT HAD A SEAT AT THE TABLE!!!!!!! Do you honestly think anyone should vote yes on any of these crapsandwich bills? You are tone deaf and out of touch!" So they are crapsandwich bills that the Republicans want a seat at the table at? I'm missing something here. And don't give me this mularkey that the Republicans included Democrats in negotiations. Poppycock. You've been listening to too much right wing media. Rots the brain. And why would Dems invite the Pubs to the negotiations when they have already signaled their intent to vote no to any Democratic bill, regardless of content? This is what overuse of the filibuster does, which I again repeat that the Republicans have used probably 10 times more than any Democratic Congress did.
The image of suicide by hanging was such a nice one .. oh well better luck next time I guess.— PAEnglish- BHL, you are entitled to your opinion, not your own facts. R controlled Senate = Bipartisan laws. D controlled Senate + Pelosi = You will do what we say, and it's your fault if our agenda is so leftwing our own moderates won't vote for it.— rudytbone
- "BHL, you are entitled to your opinion, not your own facts." Funny I would say the same about you. Once again, the Republicans are setting records with their use of the filibuster as well as their blocking of government nominees. The American people voted overwhelmingly for what Obama campaigned on. And the right wing congressmen have pulled out every device to block his agenda. No Congress has ever used the filibuster to this extent, not even the Democrats when Bush and his enablers in Congress were ramming every bill and judicial nominee down their throats.
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