Don't listen to me on torture, listen to this Republican military dude
Don't listen to me on torture, listen to this Republican military dude
I got a few snarky emails or blog comments yesterday from Michael Smerconish listeners (I thought conservatives had stopped listening to him....). My stumbling voice-for-print is certainly a fair enough target, but a couple of people were also outraged when I said that the primary goal of the torture program as it unfolded became less to get real actionable intelligence and more to get info that was desired by Dick Cheney that would falsely link al-Qaeda and thus 9/11 to Saddan Hussein and Iraq, justifying the war they went ahead and fought anyway.
OK, maybe I'm not a primary source on this, but how about Lawrence Wilkerson, the former Army colonel and Colin Powell aide (and Republican). Here's what he wrote today:
Likewise, what I have learned is that as the administration authorized harsh interrogation in April and May of 2002--well before the Justice Department had rendered any legal opinion--its principal priority for intelligence was not aimed at pre-empting another terrorist attack on the U.S. but discovering a smoking gun linking Iraq and al-Qa'ida.
So furious was this effort that on one particular detainee, even when the interrogation team had reported to Cheney's office that their detainee "was compliant" (meaning the team recommended no more torture), the VP's office ordered them to continue the enhanced methods. The detainee had not revealed any al-Qa'ida-Baghdad contacts yet. This ceased only after Ibn al-Shaykh al-Libi, under waterboarding in Egypt, "revealed" such contacts. Of course later we learned that al-Libi revealed these contacts only to get the torture to stop.
There in fact were no such contacts. (Incidentally, al-Libi just "committed suicide" in Libya. Interestingly, several U.S. lawyers working with tortured detainees were attempting to get the Libyan government to allow them to interview al-Libi....)
And so the big story today is...Nancy Pelosi? Look, I'm not at all a Pelosi fan, and I do think it's unconscionable that she didn't use her powers to do more to stop Bush-era tortures, and that the day will come for dealing with that, but I also think it's about the 41st paragraph of the story. The lede (to use some journalism-ese) is that the vice president of the United States sought torture to extract false confessions to help start a war in which more than 4,000 Americans and at least 100,000 Iraqis (and probably a lot more) died. Karl Rove claims that Nancy Pelosi was an accomplice to this -- I don't think that's exactly right but if she had been an accomplice she would have been an accomplice to what increasingly looks like a war crime. Good to know Karl's on board.
RG, Lawrence Wilkerson is a man who has served his country proudly and what he says should be taken very seriously. However when he refers to the former V.P. as the Sith Lord and suggest that Cheney "Go home. Spend your 70 million. Luxuriate in your Eastern Shore mansion. Shoot quail with your friends--and your friends." one has to wonder if he has a personal axe to grind. Clearly Wilkerson is upset that the man responsible for his career will be remembered as the person who justified the search for WMDs in Iraq - a speech that Wilkerson fact checked for Powell. All that said Wilkerson's accusations are serious yet his accusations are simply his perception of events. Viewing Cheney's position in the best light, I could argue that 1) in the aftermath of 9/11 the administration was concerned about what would happen next 2) Iraq was an enemy of the U.S. along with Al Queda (the old adage "the enemy of my enemy is my friend" had to be a concern) 3) Iraq was widely believed to have WMDs. Finding out if Iraq and Al Queda would or were working together seems to me like a reasonable question to want an answer to and an important one to our national security. Again I am stating what I believe could be Cheney's case - I can't prove it any more than those who will most likely dispute this can prove that "they always wanted to go after Saddam to retaliate for attempting to assissinate Bush's father" or that "the whole war was about oil", etc.— bird11
Well, past Wilkerson, there is also Maj Burney's quote: "This is my opinion," Maj. Paul Burney told the inspector-general's office. "Even though they were giving information and some of it was useful, while we were there a large part of the time we were focused on trying to establish a link between aI Qaeda and Iraq and we were not being successful in establishing a link between aI Qaeda and Iraq. The more frustrated people got in not being able to establish this link ... there was more and more pressure to resort to measures that might produce more immediate results."— RG- In a "ticking time bomb" situation we better be sure the guy who can speak Arabic isn't gay. There were no connections between Saddam Hussein and al Qaeda and no amount of torture will create any. Not that that matters to the marginalized minority. Their pathetic hate knows no bounds.— E.Plebnista
- "There were no connections between Saddam Hussein and al Qaeda and no amount of torture will create any" ..... can you prove that E. Pleb??? It's possible they are conspirators in the after life. The point isn't what we know NOW it is what we knew then. Knowing with as much certainty as possible was certainly important in 2002.— bird11
- It's all going to come out. There will be investigations, hearings and indictments. The smart political thing for the democrats to do is slow things down until mid 2010. Investigations will talke six months, hearings will take six months, then the indictments. By that time a republican, as they say, couldn't get elected as a dog catcher in 2010. They will be seen not as the party of no, but as the party of evil.— Ron
- I'm with you, will, this Pelosi fixation being pushed by some is probably going to bite them, and her, in the arse. She will take a political hit from some for not being more inquisitive and proactive, but the far bigger hit will be taken by those who designed and pushed the torture policies. I just believe it is far better to hold off on any conclusions, such as the VP was looking for false confessions until a more thoughtful examination of all sides of the program takes place. It's certainly appropriate to raise the questions: why did the go to SEER rather than interrogation experts for direction, what were Yoo and Bybee's marching orders when they gave their "legal opinions", how extensive were the Congressional notifications. But let's wait for the various answers before we draw any conclusions and motivations etc.— GreyHippie
- My Uncle was a POW in Korea for almost 3 years. He died before this controversy hit the fan. I know he would have gladly been waterboarded, pushed into a foam wall or only been deprived of sleep. These methods would not have left the ugly scars he had on his body. Get real.— steimel
- GreyHippie, I don't think the Pelosi stuff is meant as a distraction as much as it is meant as proof that at the time Pelosi, not exactly a staunch Bush ally, did not view the methods as "torture".— bird11
Comment removed.- Comment removed.
- Heck, as long as we're just quoting things today, RG, let's go back to the Justice Department memo. "It notes that "the CIA believes 'the intelligence acquired from these interrogations has been a key reason why al Qaeda has failed to launch a spectacular attack in the West since 11 September 2001.' In particular, the CIA believes that it would have been unable to obtain critical information from numerous detainees, including Khalid Sheik Mohammed and Abu Zubaydah, without these enhanced techniques." The memo continues: "Before the CIA used enhanced techniques . . . KSM resisted giving any answers to questions about future attacks, simply noting, 'Soon you will find out.' " Once the techniques were applied, "interrogations have led to specific, actionable intelligence, as well as a general increase in the amount of intelligence regarding al Qaeda and its affiliates." Specifically, interrogation with enhanced techniques "led to the discovery of a KSM plot, the 'Second Wave,' 'to use East Asian operatives to crash a hijacked airliner into' a building in Los Angeles." It went on: "Zubaydah and KSM also supplied important information about al-Zarqawi and his network" in Iraq, which helped our operations against al-Qaeda in that country. Yet there is more information confirming the program's effectiveness. The Office of Legal Counsel memo states "we discuss only a small fraction of the important intelligence CIA interrogators have obtained from KSM." Why didn't Obama officials release this information? Critics claim that enhanced techniques do not produce good intelligence because people will say anything to get the techniques to stop. But the memos note that, "as Abu Zubaydah himself explained with respect to enhanced techniques, 'brothers who are captured and interrogated are permitted by Allah to provide information when they believe they have reached the limit of their ability to withhold it in the face of psychological and physical hardship.'" -Washington Post— Vandy
- Comment removed.
"yes, lupe, Powell is a Republican, as is Wilkerson" . . . . . . . . . . But for how much longer? "We're at 21% and falling--right in line with the number of cranks, reprobates, and loonies in the country." Ouch- BTW Will how many books have you sold so far?— justablogger99
- Comment removed.
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