Can someone explain how, in a country of this size, these are the candidates we have running for president? That wasn't a "debate," it was merely two robots parroting talking points. Neither of them answered any of the questions asked. Both did Sarah Palin proud with their complete vacuousness.
A "Bosniac" could have turned in a better debate performance.
HA! I didn't waste my time on the debate, so I'm one up on y'all. Well, maybe not quite one, but I did get a couple of loads of laundry done.
It is a particularly delicious form of schadenfreude to read the wingnut blogs and the clowns at National Review Online whine that McCain lost because he didn't spend the entire debate wigging out and shouting "Ayers! Wright! Rezko! Abortion! GAYS!!"
Can't expect class form someone who doesn't have it.
All I know is, if I were on that stage next to a guy middle-named Hussein who pals around with terrorists and who's surely trying to destroy America by stealing the White House and handing it over to Chavez and Ahmadinejad, I'd risk everything to save my country. Why did McCain wimp out?
Obama was fantastic even when McCain couldn't remember his name and called him "the other?" Oh my God! McCain certainly showed his true colors! Would not even shake Obama's hand! Obama has class and he will be our next president!!!! Fantastic!!!
Montani, who are you really, sarah palin. Enough with the phony frightwing talking points. Thought you were better than that. Guess I was wrong. How about debating real issues, something that mccain won't do.
The debate was terrible because the media filtered the questions. If they are going to do that they might as well just have Brokaw ask the questions himself. For God sake, I'm a Jew and even I see that the only interesting 'debate' this cycle came at an evangelical church. I hope they fly Rick Warren in for the last debate. At least he knew how to lead an interesting discussion.
nuffera - he called him "That one" that wasn't him forgetting his name, that was him using a euphemism for n***er.
I don't think so, Bender. As for the debates, why would they answer the questions? There's no penalty for sidestepping, so they'll always do it. Perhaps the only positive about Palin.. she was upfront that she didn't at all care about the questions.
But McCain and Obama had already shaken hands and briefly embraced immediately after the debate ended — in fact, they were standing so close to each other that Brokaw had to ask them to separate so that he could see the TelePrompter. Whatever it was, it wasn’t a snub.
"Perhaps the only positive about Palin.. she was upfront that she didn't at all care about the questions...." Lol!
"Can someone explain how, in a country of this size, these are the candidates we have running for president?" Looks like we finally agree on something, Tps.
"I hope they fly Rick Warren in for the last debate. At least he knew how to lead an interesting discussion." Why not do away with the moderator completely. Let the candidates ask each other questions and simply have a timekeeper to keep the answers and rebuttals in check.
Comment removed.
Comment removed.
Comment removed.
mike l, @ 6:37, sorry my mockery of frightwingery offended.
Even if the candidates questioned each other, they still wouldn't answer. There just isn't any mechanism to force them to answer a specific question, unless we want to break out the waterboard.
"Why in the hell should I pay my mortgage if I know that feds are going to bail me out?" . . . . . . Is anyone taking McCain's plan seriously?
That's true Politburo. Probably wouldn't work, but I was thinking more along the lines of a discussion/argument going back and forth with each candidate responsible for holding the other's feet to the fire in terms of actually answering the question. More than likely we'd still get only talking points.
What a petulant, petty little man. He has repeatedly shown he lacks the temperment for the presidency, he has now confirmed he lacks the class. Thankg god it appears this country will avoid electing another national embarrassment.
Batch even when you're right, you're wrong.. While McCain tried to make the mortgage plan something that he had developed on his own, Obama also unfortunately supports a mortgage bailout, and had proposed a study of a similar plan a week ago.
"Can someone explain how, in a country of this size, these are the candidates we have running for president?" ........... I'm guessing it's because we disdain elites, so the elites trick us by fronting clowns.
MSl, I don't know where you live but in this country we are not aloud to say anything bad about a black guy. It might strike some people as being racist. Look what happened to Jessie Jackson after he said he wanted to cut off Obama's balls. Gone...and forgotten....
One thing I found amusing was that McCain said at least twice something like "we need a steady hand on the tiller"... this was coming from a guy who had just made a major policy proposal at a debate, had "suspended" his campaign to take 24 hours to get from NYC to DC to sit in a meeting and say nothing, who chose Sarah Palin as the Vice Presidential candidate... if anyone has been demonstrating a steady hand the past few months, it's Obama.
"But McCain and Obama had already shaken hands and briefly embraced immediately after the debate ended — in fact, they were standing so close to each other that Brokaw had to ask them to separate so that he could see the TelePrompter. Whatever it was, it wasn’t a snub." -- NOT TRUE, they were standing there to shake hands with brokaw, but they had not embraced or shook hands
"I'm guessing it's because we disdain elites, so the elites trick us by fronting clowns....." You've nailed it, MSL. I'm not sure if these guys are really as vacant as they appear, and are incapable of actually answering the questions with well-supported arguments, or challenging what their opponents say with anything more than the same talking points over, and over, and over. Or maybe it is simply that they're too chickensh*t to voice any actual opinions for fear that what they say hasn't been properly poll-tested or vetted for potential errors. But either way, what we get is a complete joke of a process. Seriously, these guys make numbnuts like Attytood's "Genius" (who was so bright he actually chose "idiot" as his first screenname) look like a policy wonk.
Politburo, Mccain has a way of reinventing himself, but now it's almost on a daily basis. Sadly, he's acting like the shapeshifter convulsing in the finale of Ray Bradbury's "The Martian".
I thought both candidates stated their positions well while fairly critizing their opponent. I don't think the debate changed anyone's mind however. No one believes McCain anymore. He has run a campaign of deceit and lies. He obviously is too much like George Bush and we definately don't need 4 more years of expanding debt and wars with countries that didn't attack us. Obama for president!
TPS; Look at this way....if you were smart enough and well qualified to be a presidential candidate in todays world, why would you want the job? Who wants their entire lives to be put under a microscope when you could be working in the private sector and making big bucks? The best candidates are too smart to run for president. It's part of the reason this country is in the trouble it's in. It will be like this until people in general wake up and realize that voting for the person with the best image is not the way to go. Until it's about the issues, we are going to continue to see these vapid candidates. This time it's an easy choice due to the economy and the war in Iraq. The republicans just don't deserve 4 more years.
Obama's been no great shakes on the economy, but who has? has anyone heard anything resembling a coherent plan to stop whats happening? However, who is more likely to make a rational decision based on input from all sides, instead of relying on tired, rigid idealogies?
Part of the reason why debates are a joke is because of their effects in the past. The media can turn one minor debate slip-up into the downfall of a campaign. As such, the candidates will always stick to the scripts, unless they're desperate. If the polls don't move McCain's way in the next week, I wouldn't be surprised if his final debate performance is quite different.
"However, who is more likely to make a rational decision based on input from all sides, instead of relying on tired, rigid idealogies?" --- Neither.. I think both are relying mainly on ideologies, it's just that (I assume) we tend to agree more with Obama's ideology, so his proposals appear more rational.
"However, who is more likely to make a rational decision based on input from all sides, instead of relying on tired, rigid idealogies?..." I'd say Obama - but even more than that, as bad as the Dems have been on economic issues, they've been heads and shoulders above Dems. First, if you just look at the numbers - deficits, fed revenue vs. fed spending, GDP growth - Dems have had better administrations. But even more importantly, given that deregulation is precisely at the core of the current financial crisis - to trust another Republican/deregulatory nutjob to the executive office would be just down right asking for more of the same.
McCain's new ad today is utterly inscrutable. What in heck is "Not Presidential" supposed to mean?
legatus: They did that in the recent French election. I couldn;t agree with you more. Sadly I doubt Obama would allow that (nor would McCain, were he ahead) since it is so unpredictable. I also doubt the media would give up their seat at the table. They seem to fancy themselves pretty important.
Maybe you are right, Politburo. Or maybe i am insane, but I think Obama is much more likely to think outside his party's box for solutions than McCain.
MSL: It is a serious plan. If the mortgages are renegotiated prices will find their floor and the assets that government is buying will find a market prices. That, combined with the rescue bill, would ensure some amount of liquidity going forward. It is expensive, but it may help us avoid a painful recession.
I'd be happy to be proven wrong.. maybe I've just subconsciously lowering my expectations, but over the summer, and especially with the pick of Biden, I came to believe that Obama would not really change things as much as I once thought. I know that he has had to change some approaches for campaign reasons, it's just unclear if those changes are permanent. His selection of cabinet members, if it occurs, will probably be the next time I reevaluate this.
I agree wholeheartedly on the cabinet issue. that will be a major test for him in my eyes. biden didn't excite me, but he's a capable, intelligent person. and i think you nailed it, in order to campaign to win, some things had to be sacrificed. plus, I think he represents the start of change, not the whole process. moving away from culture wars, etc. Less black and white on issues, more nuanced problem solving.
Excellent post RG. I think you're right on the money.
"but I think Obama is much more likely to think outside his party's box for solutions than McCain." I have to disagree here. Presidential candidates should not be judged solely (or even mostly) on their carefully crafted words during election campaigns. Of course their words & promises should be evaluated, but it is their records which should be scrutinized. In the area of thinking outside the party's box it appears that it is McCain who has the record of not being afraid to buck his party orthodoxy. Whether we are talking about McCain-Feingold, McCain-Kennedy, the Private Securities Litiation Reform Act of 1995, the Freedom to Farm Act of 1996, restoring diplomatic relations with Vietnam, opposition to military operations in Somalia, taking on the tobacco industry in 1998, staying silent during the Lewinski scandal, etc....McCain has bucked party leadership and worked outside the party's box. I really have not seen the same from Obama.
Obama simply ahsn't had the time. I don't discredit the experience argument against him, I just don't buy it. Plus McCain has moved to the right to appease the base, and in my opinion, will be beholdent o them if he wins. His stances on tax cuts, torture, social issues, etc. have steadily moved to the right. And I truly believe the Palin pick was simply to rev up the base.
I agree that Obama hasn't had the time to prove that he is willing to buck party orthodoxy, while (until this horrible campaign) McCain has been doing it almost since he has been in the Senate. That is why I don't see how anyone can say that Obama is more likely to think outside the party's box than McCain...Barack has never done so, but John has. Maybe you're right in that Obama will buck the box more than McCain...I just don't see how we can make that statement at this time. There is nothing to support it. I agree that McCain has moved to the right to pander for votes, but I'm not so sure that he'll be beholden to them. It seems like the rightward movement was simply to placate the base, but I don't think that most people believe that his stances on the issues that you mention have really changed. Pols will say anything to get elected...look to their record to determine how they'll govern.
McCains compliance or inability to stop his campaign from wallowing in the muck is further proof to me that he has moved to the right. It has been a fairly long (2 plus years journey), and it was a calculated one.
I'd disagree it was calculated. It was out of necessity, plain and simple, and if you look at the history of the McCain campaign, you'll see that many of the decisions were reactive, not proactive.. and I think that says a lot about the way McCain would govern.
Obama too has tacked left when battling Hillary in the primary, and then moved rightward in the general election. I don't believe that any of this tells us anything. These are the things that pols do in order to get elected. They understand pragmatism...that it doesn't matter how well intentioned or idealistic their plans are if they are not elected to implement them.
49 comments | View All By Latest | Paginate Comments
About Will Bunch
Will's book: Learn about it here and purchase it here.
Will Bunch, a senior writer at the Philadelphia Daily News, blogs about his obsessions, including national and local politics and world affairs, the media, pop music, the Philadelphia Phillies, soccer and other sports, not necessarily in that order.
Will Bunch, a senior writer at the Philadelphia Daily News, blogs about his obsessions, including national and local politics and world affairs, the media, pop music, the Philadelphia Phillies, soccer and other sports, not necessarily in that order.
E-mail Will by clicking here.
PLEASE COMMENT WITH PASSION...
...but not with racial slurs, potentially libelous allegations, obscenities or other juvenile noise. Such comments will, at our discretion, be deleted in their entirety, and repeat offenders will be blocked from commenting. ALSO: Any commenter advocating killing any government official will be immediately banned.
Thanks.
- Atrios
- Kiko's House
- Suburban Guerilla
- Booman Tribune
- All-Spin Zone
- Philly (Dragonballyee)
- Afro-Netizen
- Rowhouse Logic
- MyDD
- Bad Attitudes
- Billmon
- iFlipFlop
- CorrenteWire
- upyernoz
- Tattered Coat
- Fables of the Reconstruction
- Slacktivist
- Citizen Mom
- The Next Mayor
- Philly Future
- Philadelphia Will Do
- Philebrity
- Young Philly Politics
- Phillyblog
- Welcome to Phillyville
- Phawker
- A List of Things Thrown Five Minutes Ago
- Keystone Blog
- Philadelphia - America's Hometown
- BlankBaby
- Above Average Jane
- Phillyist
- Metroblogging Philadelphia
- The Clog
- Josh Marshall
- Daily Kos
- Juan Cole
- Oliver Willis
- Andy Borowitz
- War and Piece
- Wonkette
- BuzzFlash
- Raw Story
- Cursor
- Crooks and Liars
- Swing State Project
- Kevin Drum
- Talk Left
- AmericaBlog
- Hullabaloo
- Mad Kane
- Think Progress
- Jesus' General
- The Carpetbagger Report
- Majikthise
- Echidne of the Snakes
- David Sirota
- Glenn Greenwald
- TBogg
- Fire Dog Lake
- Taylor Marsh
- Matthew Yglesias
- Jon Swift
- Drudge Report
- Beer Leaguer
- The 700 Level
- Dick Polman
- Balls, Sticks and Stuff
- Shallow Center
- Philling Station
- Phillies Nation
- A Citizen's Blog
- The Good Phight
- Romenesko
- Editor and Publisher
- Pressthink
- Buzzmachine
- The Inksniffer
- Media Bloodhound
- Eat the Press
- Mickey Kaus
- Media (Huffington Post)
- Blinq
- The Corner
- Instapundit
- Andrew Sullivan
- Free Republic
- James Taranto
- Blonde Sagacity
- ScrappleFace
- Blogorrhea
Blog Roll
Get it now
Philly.com Promotions
- News | Sports | Business | What's Happening | Restaurants & Food | Entertainment | Living | Marketplace | Jobs
Site Services:
Classifieds:
- Jobs | Cars | Real Estate | Rentals | Marketplace | Celebrations
Partners:
