Tonight I had an opportunity to ask Barack Obama a question that is on the minds of many Americans, yet rarely rises to the surface in the great ruckus of the 2008 presidential race -- and that is whether an Obama administration would seek to prosecute officials of a former Bush administration on the revelations that they greenlighted torture, or for other potential crimes that took place in the White House.
Obama said that as president he would indeed ask his new Attorney General and his deputies to "immediately review the information that's already there" and determine if an inquiry is warranted -- but he also tread carefully on the issue, in line with his reputation for seeking to bridge the partisan divide. He worried that such a probe could be spun as "a partisan witch hunt." However, he said that equation changes if there was willful criminality, because "nobody is above the law."
The question was inspired by a recent report by ABC News, confirmed by the Associated Press, that high-level officials including Vice President Dick Cheney and former Cabinet secretaries Colin Powell, John Ashcroft and Donald Rumsfeld, among others, met in the White House and discussed the use of waterboarding and other torture techniques on terrorism suspects.
I mentioned the report in my question, and said "I know you've talked about reconciliation and moving on, but there's also the issue of justice, and a lot of people -- certainly around the world and certainly within this country -- feel that crimes were possibly committed" regarding torture, rendition, and illegal wiretapping. I wanted to know how whether his Justice Department "would aggressively go after and investigate whether crimes have been committed."
Here's his answer, in its entirety:
What I would want to do is to have my Justice Department and my Attorney General immediately review the information that's already there and to find out are there inquiries that need to be pursued. I can't prejudge that because we don't have access to all the material right now. I think that you are right, if crimes have been committed, they should be investigated. You're also right that I would not want my first term consumed by what was perceived on the part of Republicans as a partisan witch hunt because I think we've got too many problems we've got to solve.
So this is an area where I would want to exercise judgment -- I would want to find out directly from my Attorney General -- having pursued, having looked at what's out there right now -- are there possibilities of genuine crimes as opposed to really bad policies. And I think it's important-- one of the things we've got to figure out in our political culture generally is distinguishing betyween really dumb policies and policies that rise to the level of criminal activity. You know, I often get questions about impeachment at town hall meetings and I've said that is not something I think would be fruitful to pursue because I think that impeachment is something that should be reserved for exceptional circumstances. Now, if I found out that there were high officials who knowingly, consciously broke existing laws, engaged in coverups of those crimes with knowledge forefront, then I think a basic principle of our Constitution is nobody above the law -- and I think that's roughly how I would look at it.
The bottom line is that: Obama sent a clear signal that -- unlike impeachment, which he's ruled out and which now seems a practical impossibility -- he is at the least open to the possibility of investigating potential high crimes in the Bush White House. To many, the information that waterboarding -- which the United States has considered torture and a violation of law in the past -- was openly planned out in the seat of American government is evidence enough to at least start asking some tough questions in January 2009.
Posted by Will Bunch @ 9:47 PM
Permalink |
141 comments
Chris, I want to thank you so much for bringing me into your GBH design family as a freelancer so long ago. The projects have always challenged, inspired and defined me as an artist. Your personal art always blew me away, you could have been an illustrator. The very best in your next projects.
consacepo
(HTML deleted)
Amazing, isn't it, that idiots like genius (or should I say geniuses like Idiot?), still have so much hatred for some 1/2 of the American public. Logical sequencing in the mind of an Idiot: (1) "Libz" are concerned about potential that policies were implimented by government officials knowlingly breaking the law. (2) Obama says that if such offenses occurred, he'd take it seriously. (3) Idiot/genius calls libz "Sally boys." I can only guess the next.... (4) Obama says something politically incorrect, (5) Idiot/genius gets "concerned" and worries that Obama won't make a good president.
consacepo (HTML deleted)
Chris Pyle chides Obama:
http://www.projo.com/opinion/contributors/content/CT_pyle22_05-22-09_8CEDOAE_v20.4494ff6.html#slcgm_comments_anchor
He is the author of the book Getting Away with Torture: Secret Government, War Crimes, and the Rule of Law
Thank you appleannie1, i couldn't agree with you more. and i want to say that if "Ianmc" would do some research, he would realize that "dubya" was behind the attacks on the WTC on 9/11. it is a fact that the bush family and the Bin Ladden family have very strong bussiness relations...
Hulk. It's obvious that your reaction is knee-jerk but the issue is more complicated and deserves more than just replying with a grunt. Here are 10 reasons:
http://www.commondreams.org/views06/1114-30.htm
Being supplied with the incorrect information can have grave consequences, especially when it results in you making incorrect decisions based on that bad information. There is a battle going on right now on Capital Hill, between law makers who are pro payday loans and those who are anti payday loans. Some of these politicians, have already passed laws restricting payday loans, and are currently pushing to have them outlawed altogether. Some, such as Barack Obama, are seeking to outlaw the industry all together; such laws are put in place to protect the people from getting into financial ruin but in reality it is restricting the people who really need a payday loan from getting one. Now is the time to educate your friends and family to preserve your rights to financial independence.
Post Courtesy of Personal Money Store
Professional Blogging Team
Feed Back: 1-866-641-3406
Home: http://personalmoneystore.com/NoFaxPaydayLoans.html
Blog: http://personalmoneystore.com/moneyblog/
It is not up to the executive branch to carry out an investigation. It would be the legislative branch that investigates the abuses and the criminality of bushco. An independent commission (Church Committee) could easily be be convened with subpenia power that would do the investigating so Congress and Obama would not tie up and detered from the "changes" Congress and Obama want to make. The Justice Department would only be involved when and if findings show legal action should and would be taken.
Bush will most definitely order a blanket pardon of all and a self pardon to boot. No other president has ever pardoned himself, but bush is like none other. Obama or Congress could revoke the pardons, something else that has never happened, but will they when Obama gets use of the extended executive powers and so many of members of Congress are complacent in the abuses and crimes.
Based on Obama's statements, I don't feel he is a person that will do much more than talk about this issue. In my opinion this is his major flaw. He has the rhetoric, but not the push to re-instate the Bill of Rights and Constitution to their rightful place.
Forget McCain, he only knows to send in the military and drop bombs.
The comments from bush lovers here seem to lack logic and sense. Typical is this early remark from "hulk" (?): "That makes a lot of sense. Let's waste time and tax payer dollars looking for potential crimes of the previous administration. And that would solve what exactly?" By this logic, we should not investigate *any* crimes, since all of them are in the past and would be a waste of money to look into. What nonsense! Words of one syllable for hulk: we need to do it so no one will do it again. Capiche?
Waterboarding is not torture. The photo posted to this story is evidence that it is not torture - a (radical liberal) individual willingly submits to a waterboarding demonstration.
Whips are torture. Crushing of body parts is torture. Hunger is torture. Medical experimentation is torture.
Loud music is not torture. Water is not torture. A long interogation session is not torture.
Calling waterboarding torture diminishes what real torture victims have endured and suffered throughout history.
I suspect EVERY victim of the holocaust would willingly substitute the occasional waterboarding for any of the torture they suffered at the hands of the Nazi regeim.
This goes out to Genius. I served in Korea during the Reagan years and was privy to some very sensitive material as a young 19 year old. I am 45 now and don't regret the course I took standing up to my commanders. It cost me a brilliant military career, but my conscience and soul told me what we were doing was wrong. I am no "liberal" as you demonize, I am a cold cut conservative Native American. Yes, I said it, Native American! A people who instead of whining about our plight, grabbed a weapon to defend "our" great nation. Back then, there was still a cold war going on. Reagan was refreshing compared to what you are buying now. Its not about liberalism or conservatism, its about being the greatest nation on earth which we are, but we are not because we kill the innocent, kicking in doors and pointing guns in your face. We are the greatest nation because despite our diversity, during crisis we forget our politics, religions, and skin colors and kick butt to ease our fellow brothers and sisters in harms way. Trust me, Native Americans still get their doors kicked in and guns placed at their temples more than you'de like to admit, but you know what? We still serve more per capita than any other race in this homeland. And we still lose, but I speak to you as an American because to tell you we are decendents dating thousands of years on this soil is too much for your Genius mind, so I'l make it simple. When the media is manipulated and information is bought and sold like burgers; when Americans actually believe that killing is security and 8 billion of OUR moneys are unaccounted for, it doesn't take a GENIUS to figure out that someone is getting rich. In a capitalist society, money rules. Religion, politics, moral standing, etc., doesn't mean crap. The ultimate goal is cash. There are Iraqis and Arab people sipping wine and smoking hookahs while our servicemen are being used for target practice. Americans are overarmed. Do you really think we could be invaded? Genius?
The Republican vitriol here doesn't surprise me in the least, nor does the ignorant, off-topic ranting and name calling. Forget that toruture is illegal and immoral (if I may quote the Christian conservatives, "What would Jesus say?") and consider the blatent and very public lies. If you go before Congress and swear up and down that you don't condone torture or practice it, then you are revealed to have not only allowed it but actively promoted it, that is a CRIME. They impeached Clinton for lying over a sex act with a consenting adult, why should these lying, murdering criminals get off scot free? And the further crime here is that they will get away with murder. Bush and his cronies will make sure that they cover their asses. It makes it hard to be supportive of your country doesn't it?
Bush,Cheney&Co. thought that waterboarding was a new olympic sport.
Forget torture; doesn't anybody remember the 'Downing Street Memo'??
Can anybody deny that this memo proves that Bush and co. are war criminals?
President Obama shouldn't fool around with an investigation or prosecution or messy trials. Just declare Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, Rice, Ashcroft, Gonzalez, et al as enemy combatants. Straight to the waterboards at Guantanamo. Is this a great country or what?
here`s a fact TB...my comments above are indeed rooted in fact...not terror or any other ridiculous thing you brought up...FYI, the comments are mostly meant to be humorous...just maybe, if you weren`t so out-of-touch like BO, you`d have interpreted my comments as intended!
It's good news that the Radical Right is frothing at the mouth over Obama.. it means they see him as a real threat :)
See, this whole discussion about Terror.. it isn't Progressives that are promoting terror.. it is the Radical Right. Terror is simply this: Using fear and provocation to influence a population.
Sound familiar? "Fight them over there so we don't have to fight them here" .. "Why do you hate America?" .. "Go ahead, let the terrorists bomb us" .. "Wright, Ayers, Sinclair, Farahkan, the Black Panthers, Rezko, Meeks, Malley, Auchi, Khalidi, McPeaks, Michelle Obama...imagine BO and ALL these friends, associates, endorsers, etc., having a Pres.-Elect party?...after a few, Wright could get up and give another, 'HATE WHITEY AMERICA!', speech...while Rezko`s trying to sell the White House to the Russians."
All of these comments are based on fear and lies. That doesn't matter to the provocateur.. he is only trying to scare people enough to keep them away from the hot plate.. that is to say, to keep them from thinking and making a rational choice based on facts.
One simple fact, for example, is that since 15 of the 9/11 hijackers were Saudis, we should have gone after Saudi Arabia. Especially considering that Osama is the BROTHER of a member of the ruling family, and has been receiving money from them for a very long time, both directly and through laundered charities.
But gee, I wonder why the Saudi family was flown out of the country on 9/12/2001? Could it be that they and the Bush family are both heavily invested in the Carlysle group and Big Oil?
Wake up people! Ignore these yahoos and get back to facts! :)
I'm going to vote for Obama, but he needs to be held to strictest account too. He sat in the Senate for the past two years, and enabled these law breakers. He vote for war appropriations (he was scared he'd be labeled anti-troops.) He voted for tax breaks for Exxon and other oil companines. But worst of all, he also neglected to support impeachment -- which is for high crimes and MISDEMENORS. Not just serious crimes, as he is trying to make us believe. I blame the weasely Dems -- including Barak and Hillary -- for this lawless administration. A Republican snake will always be a snake, as Condi has proven. But the enabling Dems are failing to mobilize public support for a just cause -- just as Al Gore failed to do in 2000. They are a big part of the problem. We also need to point out how many politicians, like Barak, get wealthy the moment they get into Congress. It's the best get-rich-quick scheme in America, and it has to stop.
Oh I pray he looks into the allegations surrounding Ms. Rice.
She is a disgrace to the office, the people of the country and the dignity of humankind.
Condi is a moral Neanderthal and resigning is too good for her kind.
A plea to Obama:
Whatever you do, insure that she doesn't slither away into a spiderhole.
Help us to set in motion the events necessary to bring her and her co-conspirators to justice. The future of our country depends upon it. There are many millions of us who, after 6 1/2 years have about given up on what this country stands for. Will you be part of the solution, or will you continue to harbor those who are bringing the U.S. to ruin?
I hope that Obama will also investigate and prosecute his terrorist friends Willian Ayers and his wife Bernadine Dohrn who admitted to many bombings. Obama not only served on an eight person board with Ayers, but had a support meeting with them at their house. Rev. Wright only threw verbal bombs, these criminal terrorists actually threw REAL BOMBS. To make it worse, they are STILL PROUD of their bombings! Bernadine Dohrn also made a speech in which she celebrated the murder of Sharon Tate and the 7 others who were murdered. It is quite revealing who Obama chooses to tolerate. The Weathermen hated the ordinary working class Americans, and it is obvious that Obama shares the same view as Ayers in denigrating the same people.
It's all but a foregone conclusion that Obama will be president for 8 years beginning next January. All you right-wing crackpots will be dragged, kicking and screaming, back into the American community, have to pay your fair share of taxes and lose your financial benefits that have resulted from the Bush administration's lies and criminal activity. And you'll have to live with legal abortion, no school prayer and tolerate gays at every level of American life. Live with it.
Thank you larsapher....If you have not read my last comment please do, I am so very tired of the BS that is tearing us apart while others are selling this country off to the highest bidder living comfortably off our money. Please remember that most people that speak out in harsh words about our country that are Americans by birth or other means are not anti-American. You can't be anti-American because we have a document that spells out who we our and that document not being perfect; to me is pure. So when you here a person like Rev. Wright say what he said; really listen to his words.....He uses the term "We" allot meaning he is as much to blame for our problems as is all of us. People that are Anti-anything usually uses the term "they" as a means to distance themselves. Just a little background about me so you can see where I am coming from.... I am not religious although I believe that there is a God, I don't own a gun even though I served in the Army. I believe that every one has a right to own a gun and practice their religion because our Constitution says so. I don't believe in the Death Penalty even if someone were to do mortal harm to me or my family because The First Amendment protects every Human Being from being Killed by the government (If you are dead you cannot practice freedom of speech or worship your GOD....It Says in the first Sentence Congress shall make no law...ect). I went to school in PA, served my country and now would like it back. I just happen to be a 36 year old American male married with three girls who just so happens to have Brown skin. And by the way if you did not already guess; Star Wars is my favorite movie.
I am very proud of the fight on this comment page. Being a patriot means going against the bad guy even if it the President. To give respect and unconditional authority to a person , that has NO ACOUNTIBILITY is UPSURD.
I think the vast majority of Americans want ACOUNTIBILITY from every one!
Seems like for too long the standard of looking the other way, instead of doing the right thing, has been the norm . This only lowers us as a whole.
ps: darthjedi I agree!
Raoul-Mea Culpa,I'm off by 30 years.You are now free to go back to running Cuba.
For you "African-Americans" and "White people" posting here.....I put quotes around the titles because you have all been duped. Ask yourself the question....WHO in the world told you, you were "African-American" or "White". I hate to tell you this but these titles are a form of fraternity "To only let those in that we want" and are not Races....There is no such thing as Race when dealing with humans...The term race is another word for species and last time I checked there is only on species of Human. Look up the taxonomy of human and you will find that there is no such thing as White, Black or any other color for that matter. You can't say the Human race and then say black and white and call that a race. let's just say that everyone over six feet tall are the tall race and every person under 5 feet the short race; sounds plain stupid right? Now back to why you are duped....If you guys are fighting with each other because you have different titles that were imposed on you without asking, you can't see the people that are really doing you harm and that’s why we are turning into a fascist state where we can't tell where companies stop and government start. I have an idea..lets all meet some where; shed these ridiculous titles that separate us artificially and come up with a plan to get rid of the ALL OF ARE SELF IMPOSED MASTERS AND TAKE BACK OUR COUNTRY AND REALLY LIVE IN PEACE. I am for OBAMA and not for the same reasons that everyone else is. The reason why I am for him is because he is a Constitutional Lawyer and I am willing to take a chance on someone who knows our rights and would like to give them back to us. Just last week I had to get a new Driver's License after it was damaged and I was told I now had to put my full middle name on my license.....I now have lost the right to my own name all in the name of a false sense of security......Please look past the BS; vote for OBAMA and lets end this madness.
Neoconservatism is a political movement, mainly in the United States, which is generally held to have emerged in the 1960s, coalesced in the 1970s, and has had a significant presence in the administration of George W. Bush. source: wikipedia.org/wiki/Neocon
Any questions? Didn't think so. [g]
I am scared that allot of you in here are old enough to vote. Some of you are frankly insane. Let me explain my comments. Most of the people that I am talking about are hung up on Obama's bitter remark and are not old enough mentally to see what he meant and not what he said, and then confusing that with Clinton and her Bosnia comment that she made on more than one occasion. I don't know about any of you that are giving her a pass on the Bosnia thing but you don’t forget getting shot at and you don’t confuse events in time years later when you were shot at.
I find it odd that my earlier comment where I said something like Barrack Obama's statement is ambiguous jargon and he won't do anything about it was not added to this page after it was reviewed. However, "tommyjohn"'s racist remarks are welcome. I'm sure this comment won't make it up either, just another case of filtering informed truth out of the mass sea of ignorant hatred.
I wander who the moderator is in here because the post I made just before my last one did not make it and there was nothing wrong with what I said in that post. Has anyone else had problems? I am going to try again to see if it makes it.
tommy john; You are a vary scary person. I really feel sorry for you, But you are an American and being a former soldier I would still die to protect your right to spew such hateful things.
Wright, Ayers, Sinclair, Farahkan, the Black Panthers, Rezko, Meeks, Malley, Auchi, Khalidi, McPeaks, Michelle Obama...imagine BO and ALL these friends, associates, endorsers, etc., having a Pres.-Elect party?...after a few, Wright could get up and give another, 'HATE WHITEY AMERICA!', speech...while Rezko`s trying to sell the White House to the Russians...before Lewis Ayers gets a chance to full-fill his life-long dream of blowing it up...meanwhile, BO and Sinclair renew some bad habits together...as Michele likes to watch...would be quite a party...anyone for crashing it...and you thought the Clintons were bad in the White House...i`d much rather have the Clintons there maybe - and that`s a HUGE maybe - involved in a scandal which doesn`t affect the American people...this is why the media ignores this garbage for what it is and will continue to ignore it as old news...without the media, the Pubs can`t use it effectively enough to beat her...which makes her far more electable...meamwhile, Hillary`s policies could have us in prosperous times after cleaning up another Bush mess...the Clintons are getting good at that...compare that to BO and Friends...who, quite frankly, may be dangerous to the American people...i know most Pubs feel this way...and half the Dems...which =`s most of America...McCain`s going to wipe the floor with Obama!...they`ll rip him apart with EACH AND EVERY ONE OF THOSE PEOPLE/GROUPS MENTIONED ABOVE!!!
What a bunch of lingo-garbage. The only "clear signal" that Obama is sending is that he is either complicit or is completely uninformed about actual current events and is thus worthless and a presidential candidate. All I ever hear out of this guy is vague double-speak, but the ignorant masses guzzle down his catch phrases like a lovely milk shake. Clinton got impeached for a blowjob and Obama doesn't think impeachment is fruitful in the face of blatant violation of national and international laws? He says "I can't prejudge that because we don't have access to all the material right now." Anyone with an internet connection has access to enough evidence to convince a jury 10 times over.
Someday somebody will tell me Something Obama Has accomplished...? He is a Great orator but will get decimated in The Fall election Cycle he is either a Marxist or a Guy who doesn't really Understand how Washington Works.. he has no real Policy on anything but Heathcare... He is way too Liberal for the USA!
Comment removed.
If the fine citizens in PA, Indiana, N. Carolina vote for Obama now, after he has shown the world the real Obama, and his REAL feelings towards White America, the Blue Collar/Working Class...then you get what you deserve !!! His associates, his wife, his Terrorist connections are all coming home to roost... His sermons are just hot air. Behind closed doors, he makes fun of the average Americans..puts us down, and plots our doom. Wake up now while you still can. Otherwise..Wake up to a nightmare in January 09. You think we have it bad now, we will lose everything dear to us, our children, and our grandchildren.. Make the Right Choice..He's a DEVIDER< NOT UNITER !!!
If the fine citizens in PA, Indiana, N. Carolina vote for Obama now, after he has shown the world the real Obama, and his REAL feelings towards White America, the Blue Collar/Working Class...then you get what you deserve !!! His associates, his wife, his Terrorist connections are all coming home to roost... His sermons are just hot air. Behind closed doors, he makes fun of the average Americans..puts us down, and plots our doom. Wake up now while you still can. Otherwise..Wake up to a nightmare in January 09. You think we have it bad now, we will lose everything dear to us, our children, and our grandchildren.. Make the Right Choice..He's a DEVIDER< NOT UNITER !!!
Sorry ass Obama..Perhaps the main stream media should stop kissing his ass. He is a Racist, Hates Blue collar america, hates whites, won't denounce Rev. White, buddies with terrorists, yet he's got the nerve to say someone should be investigated. Perhaps his assocition with William Ayers would be a start. The media owes it to the citizens of this Country. Why is he given a free ride..scared of the race issue. What about National security. The threat is right here. The anti-Christ has surfaced !!
Every organization these days has to write its own "Mission Statement." Liberals believe that the mission of the United States is stated in the Constitution. Conservatives of the stripe in this series of posts (what might be termed "know-nothing Conservatives") believe that the mission is embodied in the president and such symbols as the flag. This is truly conservative, since it hearkens back to the Divine Right of Kings. As the current administration nudges the nation ever closer to fascism--look it up, don't think you know what it means--the know-nothing Conservatives try to find outside threats to justify this and also look to the Americans they despise, notably Liberals, as threats from within. In Mussolini's and Hitler's day, the enemies within were the Jews, Gypsies, and homosexuals and those without were communists. Not all that different in the past 60 years from how the know-nothing Conservatives view the liberals and terrorists.
Or have the conservatives spend more money so that the "child's" belongings have no value because of the decreasing value of the dolllar. Apparently, we're screwed either way.
jmc says "there is not one shred of evidence of any criminal wrongdoing in the Bush Administration". Fine - if that's true, then Obama's AG won't find anything. It's more likely, however, that there is much more evidence hidden behind the closed doors of the White House than shredders could cope with or even computer-literate operatives could untraceably erase.
Yeah, Fred - make us pay higher taxes so your "child" can smear his greasy fingers on all of our belongings. Sounds like a smart idea.
What we liberals need to figure into any discussion with these uninformed conservatives is their relationship with the government. The relationship between the government and its citizens is like a family. We liberals are the adults in the family that love our child, the government, but understand that the child needs to be watched and guided by us to behave in ways that honor our founder’s values that created America. Therefore we correct, admonish and punish the government when it strays off course. That is our responsibility!
Conservatives on the other hand are the children that look up to their parents as those who can do no wrong. They can't question them because of who they are. Consequently the government can run amuck with no consequences under their watch. Facts, which are the backbone of the decision making process for an adult, are meaningless to the children. Also is the fact that children scare far more easily than adults do.
So fellow liberals lets cut these ignorant and scared children some slack when they speak of things without considering the facts. They need to lie in order to not lose faith in their parents. Without the government to protect them from the big bad world they are lost.
Soon we will have the government back and will demonstrate how this Great country should be run!
You are a fool to believe him. I'll bet you $100 no such thing happens.
If He feels that strongly, then Obama should be investigated for his involvement with Rezko, Ayers,Nadhmi Auchi, siad or any of his other friends. would only be right to find out before he was ever elected.
Yawn......
these people are either sick or never leared what this democracy is all about.
1. bush and company lied us into a war. nothing that they asserted about Saddam except he was a bad man was ever proven. that's no reason for over 4,000 Americans to die.
2. they used the Justic Department as a political wing of the White House (Don Siegleman, the fired AG's).
3. they repeated renewed no bid contracts to crooks that were robbing the American people.
4. they tortured people (I guess that's their answer to What would Jesus Do)
these things must be addressed if we are ever going to regain our status as the Beacon of Freedom in the world
Did the Republicans select the Democratic nominee?
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/wayne-barrett/could-the-republicans-cou_b_94158.html
The body count that the mainstream media has regurgitated out of Florida and Michigan is that 2.3 million Democrats voted in primaries that broke the rules, leaving the DNC with no choice but to level both villages, even if the collateral damage might include the party's prospects of carrying those disenfranchised states in November. The DNC and the MSM appear to have simultaneously concluded that even Clinton's 300,000-vote win in Florida, where both candidates competed on a level playing field, shouldn't be counted in the popular vote tally, a calculation that appears nowhere in DNC rules and turns 1.7 million Democratic voters into ghosts.
The irony is that the drumbeat for Clinton's withdrawal - coming on the heels of her recent wins and right before what may be her biggest in Pennsylvania - is rooted in the collapse of the effort to redo Michigan and Florida. The theory is that she should quit because there is no way she can win, and that there is no way she can win because two states she could win, at least one of which she actually did win, will not be counted until she gets out. Barack Obama would thus become the nominee - not because of an honestly earned if precariously narrow lead in the final national vote, but because of two elections he would not let happen.
If any President ever needed investigating, it is Bush. The "hide under my bed" republicans are scared to death that we will be invaded by some terrorist group, yet don't seem to care that their children will never have the chance to grow up in a free America. They are being saddled with debt that will make them work harder than we have had to just to keep their heads above water. They can be pulled off the street at any time because some one called them a terrorist, and they may very well never be seen again. And it would be legal thanks to Bush. He should not only be investigated, but should get the maximum sentence for every crime committed. And Darth Cheney along with him. He is one of the "great people he will surround himself with". Sound familiar?
On a side note to "The Genius", what is funny is that you America-haters still don't get that you are a under 1% minority in the polls. Your devotion to the WORST, AND MOST DISLIKED PRESIDENT IN US HISTORY is commendable, but keep in mind, there are more people who claim to have seen flying saucers than feel such loyalty to bush as you do.
Even the "mainstream" Bush supporters can only be statistically considered radical fringe, as they polling is around one in every four Americans. EVERYONE else thinks Bush is the WORST PRESIDENT EVER!
Oh, and have you noticed how Osama bin-Laden plays you chumps like suckers? You, my dear fiend, are Osama's best buddy, because you support the war in Iraq, which is Osama's number one worldwide recruiting cause! You, my dear fiend are the enemy, along with Salem bin-Laden's former business partner (Your tin God, Bush).
Hey "Kindness", why would you make that statement about the "government coming to torture your kids"??? We don't torture, never have... We waterboard, put those scumbags in cold rooms, make them listen to Christina Aguilera at loud levels, give them 3 square meals a day and let them pray whenever they want to everyday... I repeat---the actions I just listed just DON'T constitute "torture"... Now, Al-Queda on the other hand---they torture... Lopping off peoples domes, sawing off limbs, drilling holes in peoples heads... That's torture---my friend.
darthjedi seems to be all over every gaffe by Clinton, yet ignores all of Obamas, or pretends they don't matter. This is what I have seen all year from his supporters. He is above reproach, and anyone who dares comment on his flaws is a racist. Yet he has made as many "misspeaks" as Clinton has. I have been voting since my first vote for Nixon. Never have I seen this country so divides as it is now. And Obama is the reason. I see him being the next president. And I see him going nowhere with all his happy Talk. It will get us nowhere. Besides, his wife hates America! And she hates white as well. Just listen to her. She blames everything on Whites.
I am not a Clinton supporter. She is as bad as Obama. But being a faithful democrat, I have to support my party, whoever is nominated. Obama supporters don't see it that way. It is either him, or no one. That is shameful for the party.
http://mccaindemocrats.blogspot.com/
Who is Obama!
Perhaps Obama should be worrying about his own crooks!
Democratic presidential hopeful Barack Obama was again drawn into Tony Rezko's corruption trial on Monday, when the prosecution's star witness placed Obama at a party for an Iraqi-born billionaire who was later barred entry to the United States.
Stuart Levine testified under cross-examination that Obama and his wife, Michelle, attended the April 3, 2004, reception for Nadhmi Auchi.
Auchi -- who lives in London -- had been convicted of fraud in France in 2003. After visiting Chicago and Detroit in 2004, he wasn't allowed back into this country in 2005, according to a prosecution filing in the Rezko case.
The April 3, 2004, gathering for Auchi took place at Rezko's mansion in Wilmette, with about 100 people attending, Levine testified.
"Mr. and Mrs. Obama were there, were they not?" Rezko's lawyer, Joseph Duffy, asked.
"Yes, sir," Levine said.
http://www.suntimes.com/news/metro/rezko/894559,CST-NWS-rezko15.article#
"hulk - what are you going to do when our government comes and tortures YOUR kids?"Posted by kindness Isnt that the kind of logic that makes frightwingers want to fight the real badguys, the terrorists? Except, for your ilk, the only badguys are other Americans.
I won't be voting for Obama because he is full of Fell Good, and offers no real solutions. The theory that he will surround himself with good people is the same theory they had about Bush. But I am all for investigating the crimes committed by the current Administration, and they are many. If the right is so scared of shadows that they will give up their constitutional rights because their president says it is necessary, then why are they so hateful to a president of another party? They are mindless drones following their fearless leader to their doom. They are just too blind to see it.
hulk - what are you going to do when our government comes and tortures YOUR kids?
I am from PA and my wife and I live in one of the counties that will decide this race in PA. I must tell you that there are more signs in people's yard for Obama then Clinton. I play a game with my daughter as I drive her to school to see how many Obama V Clinton signs there are and Obama is coming up 3 to 1.
I hope that on April, 22nd we defeat the elite HILLARY "Me and My husband made over 100 million dollars in 7 years you get yours; I ducked gun fire as I was rushed to my get away car like Ronald Regan was March 30, 1981 while I was shooting duck; My Husband takes 800k from the Columbian government but I am really against the trade deal but love their money even if it was paid to my husband because what's mine is mine and what's his is mine; I believe the electric company can sell electricity to you but you can not sell it back to them just like my buddy ED Rendell;I am a carpet bagger that moved to New York just so I could win a senate race so could later run for president and took money from Peter Paul a confessed former felon to fund my Senate campaign in 2000 but did not report it because it violated campaign laws which also violates campaign laws and I deny really knowing him on video even though he has home movies and audio of me thanking him for 7 minutes and suggesting that Stan Lee (you know the creator of Spider man) his partner be my secretary of defense because super heroes are cheaper than missile defense systems, and Did I mention that I am the one that is completely unelectable because of my last point which means I am a felon and that's why the Republicans want me to win the nomination" CLINTON.
I will Stay home if Hillary wins and I mean just that.
Raoul-When moveon.org releases you,look up the word NEOCON & see if you can figure out what it means.And then see if any of the members of the current administration fit that description.Seven years on the front lines, eh ? As Leo would say, "and then they showed you the queen of spades ".
I hope that if Obama wins that he will also investigate Sen. Feinstein, and Sen Reid for their malfeasance and backroom dealings.
Posted by virginiavoter ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Why should Obama do your current President's job?
For the past several years I have wanted little more than to see top members of this administration using cell phones. Maybe, just maybe...
Yes! Investigate! Indict as necessary!
Accountability is the best path.
Comment removed.
This is directed directly at "The Genius." Clearly you're as intelligent as your name would suggest. The reason we're, to use your words, "Hating America first" is because America is the lone world super power and should be a bastion of ethics and human rights. Sure during the course of American history people have been tortured and killed, but does the fact that egregious behavior has occurred in the past mean that it should be overlooked and deemed acceptable? Taking your idiotic logic a step further would mean that minorities like myself should still be slaves and that the Jew should just quite their complaining because after all the Nazis committed their atrocities in the past. I realize that my advancement of your logic is extreme, but sometimes taking a dumb argument and applying it is the only way to make simpletons like you realize that politics and advanced thought such as violations of the Geneva Conventions are best left to people that don't walk in jack boots while goose stepping to the drum beat of Fox "News!" You are what's wrong with our country and comment like that underline it to a T! Thank you for exposing the general ignorance of the American public and demonstrating just how necessary it is for war crimes charges to be brought against these dogs of war. Maybe putting Bush and Cheney in the same column as Hitler and Stalin will prove to you that actions that they have perpetrated are WRONG!
'Raoul-You wouldn't know a NEOCON if one hit you over the head.'
Au contraire! I've spent the last 7 years battling neocons so I think I know their mentality inside out. Look at a nazi and you'll find a neocon. There is NO difference.
Serious question. Can a president pardon someone prior to investigation of a crime?
The real investigation should be done on Clinton http://www.paulvclinton.com/ . This is the real reason why the republicans want Hillary to win, and they will get their way if she is not stopped before the end of the primaries.
COMMENTS FROM THE GENIUS DISTURB ME! Violence is not the answer. MLK JR. PROVED THAT YOU DO NOT NEED TO STOOP TO THE LOW IMMORAL VALUES OF YOUR PERSECUTORS TO REDEEM JUSTICE!! By torturing ALLEGED members of terrorist groups you only put more HATRED on the fire of HATE that was started by these HATE GROUPS.
All of these CHRISTIAN VALUED CONSERVATIVES are the FIRST ones to THROW AWAY their own god's teaching of NON VIOLENCE!! Jesus ASKED FOR FORGIVENESS of his persecutors after THEY NAILED HIM TO A CROSS AND STUCK A SPEAR THROUGH HIS RIBS!!! (this was after thousands of lashings) WHY? because the violence of these individuals on others did not justify a DIMINISHING OF OUR VALUES only to enact REVENGE!! WHATEVER HAPPENED TO LEADING BY EXAMPLE? THANK YOU MARTIN LUTHER KING FOR SETTING THE EXAMPLE OF NON VIOLENCE.
Is ianmc, Rudy Giulani's num-de-blog? I see no evidence of Bush or Cheney getting any oral sex while in office, so that closes it for you neocon wannabes. By the way, Obama taught Constitutional law, so he should know a thing or two about that piece of paper. I'm rooting from CA for Philly to put an end to this primary, so we can get Obama to the WH.
Those of us not living in PA are asking pennsylvanians to please save us from another term of republickanism. Vote Obama and let's get this thing rolling. Repubs have ruined this country. It isn't just small towns it's all of us that are bitter. Repubs have killed unions and moved jobs overseas and the Clintons have helped them do it. All pols say things that are offensive to everyone at one time or another. But we need to unite to go in a different direction and rid ourselves of the scurge of republicanism.
Raoul-You wouldn't know a NEOCON if one hit you over the head.Maybe you can have a Republican break down the acronymn for you.
As an independent, I think the most important thing that can be done when we name a new President is to try and restore credibility to the office. We need to follow the constitution and the rule of law. If any illegalities took place then those people need to be prosecuted--no matter what party they are. This era of hyper-partisanship must end. First and foremost, we must be a nation of laws and restore the respect and dignity to the office of the Presidency. Bush has been extremely disappointing and probably has participated in some illegal acts that will need to be investigated. He has been given too much power. I don't think conservatives would want a Democrat to have as much power as Bush has and vice versa. This is a non-partisan issue. We need to restore the credibility and rule of law to the office of the President. Too many has lost all faith in the Presidency and it will take a bipartisan or non-partisan effort to rid the office of the stench.
NOBO offers us today's example of the success right-wing elites have had in brainwashing their gullible, angry followers. These wealthy crooks have convinced people like NOBO that they aren't to blame for the rising costs of college and all the other issues they fail to address. Instead, they give him a much more simple and useful target: the "liberal" media. Right wingers apparently consider the media liberal if they're thorough, ask embarrassing questions and consistently catch the wing nuts with their hands in the public's cookie jar. Discredit the messenger and you can continue your crimes while average people once again lose. Smart strategy, and apparently it just keeps working.
I hope that if Obama wins that he will also investigate Sen. Feinstein, and Sen Reid for their malfeasance and backroom dealings. by virginavoter.
Yeah, and those things are on the SAME level as lying our way into a war, right?
Not only should he order investigations, he should order the immediate arrest of bush, cheney, et. al. for war crimes. The excuses used for the illegal invasion of Iraq were IDENTICAL to those given by the Nazis for their invasion of Poland. And some of the Nazis were executed for the invasion. Pre-emptive attacks with no justification are war crimes, plain and simple! Oh yeah, I know the neocon exuse - we were attacked on 9/11. Well why didn't we attack Saudi Arabia since 15 of the hijackers were Saudis? Bush, Cheney, Rice, and the rest of them are war criminals. When Saddam was executed, they should have been hanged right next to him.
Joe Galloway has said he thinks Bush will pardon all of his buddies, including himself, before he leaves the White House.
What makes you think he's leaving?
I hope that if Obama wins that he will also investigate Sen. Feinstein, and Sen Reid for their malfeasance and backroom dealings.
Will-I thought it was crazy that you were tracking the NL MVP race six games into the season but on second thought go back to that.You're a joke.And your question was INSPIRED by something you read.You're pathetic.
Oh my goodness! If Obama would be willing to investigate, and (gasp) maybe even prosecute, or at least investigate if Bush pardons everyone, then I might not fear so much for my grandchildren!
Can we get Richard French to provide a caption to the attached photo?
DE Vol. "Ha, the thing with you Liberals is that if someone just disagrees with your candidate/ideals then it's because he is "hated" and and that's reason to start calling names and making accusations..." This is great. DE Vol (1) says that Obama's going to appoint Farrakhan, Wright, etc. to his cabinet, (2) claims that his conspiracy theories are somehow based in evidence from Obama, and then (3) claims that he's not a lunatic conspiracy theorist. Once again, the scariest part of these rightwing lunatic Republican conspiracy theorists is that this isn't just stuff they're throwing at the wall - they're actually deranged enough to believe this junk. No matter how much McCain might try to distance himself from these loons, there's real potential that they'll drag his candidacy down into the dark abyss they inhabit.
Actually, what's really interesting is that Obama is running a close race with one of the primary targets of such an investigation.
If Obama is going to open investigations into criminality of past administrations, why limit it to Bush? Obama said he would be sensitive to the perception of a partisan witch hunt. What would look like a better non-partisan witch hunt, than to hunt down the past crimes of the ultimate witch, Hillary Clinton?
Now, suppose Obama names Hillary as his VP candidate? Does that mean that he can no longer investigate past administrations, because of the inherent conflict of interest?
Will -- you're a genius for bringing up this fascinating twist in the election!
Liberal echo chamber -- they really think Americans are totally preoccupied with torture. How out of touch. We can see the conspiracy emerging -- left-wing editorialistas and their fellow 60s radical hippies in academia got together and decided to put up a candidate. They went to one of their own who is great at manipulating the media -- David Axelrod. So, while the white liberal guilt is eased by the elitist beach house liberal caucus, the American people are caught paying the bill. Has Obama every challenged why universities have raised tuition at 3 times the rate of inflation, and that college cost have risen at twice the cost of gasoline over 10 years? No, Obama's answer is to give more money to the top 1% higher earners of part-time universities. These are same radicals that brag about blowing up the Pentagon and police in the 1960s, who don't believe Osama bin Laden when he admits he sent his upper middle class Al Queda thugs to fly planes into the building - The Obama crowd thinks George Bush did it. So the idea that Obama would be a concensus candidate is part of the liberal lunatic brainwash and the koolaid side effects of a very gullible media. We will remember the Obama lovefest and the layoffs at newspapers and declining circulation and fleeing advertisers will have the same liberal newsies wondering why -- hey, guys, your preferential treatment, bias, propaganda, and censorship to benefit Obama rubs people the wrong way.
Ha, the thing with you Liberals is that if someone just disagrees with your candidate/ideals then it's because he is "hated" and and that's reason to start calling names and making accusations... I just think it's funny, because in the fall there are gonna be a lot of disappointed Liberals in this country because for the 6th time in 8 Presidential Elections---your candidate is gonna get rolled... Let the crying commence...
Yeah, CNN and Bill Press, two well known pillars of objective journalism...!!! LOL!! Now why wouldn't I want to go THERE to get the "REAL" truth---right MontcoKev???
The beauty is us "Far-Right Republican Conspiracy Lunatics" don't have to "activate the hate" as you put it---he's doing an A+++ job of making people hate him all by himself!!! (Posted by Delaware Vol)........................................................................................That's a relief. If you guys didn't hate him, I'd be worried. A quick review of this thread, though, tells me Obama Derangement Syndrome (OBS) is already in the kool-aid.
DE Vol: In re "Vast Right-Wing Conspiracy", you should open your eyes before you open your mouth...please see http://archives.cnn.com/2002/ALLPOLITICS/04/02/column.billpress/index.html for details
Too bad, Will. The new platform and registration requirements don't seem to have raised the intellectual level of the comments one bit.
I know Dodge and Genius and DE-Vol won't want to hear it, but the direct result of this torture that Bu$hCo authorized was the flawed "intelligence" that they used to justify a flawed war in Iraq. Garbage in...garbage out, as they say in computing circles.
Darius Rejali, Author of Torture and Democracy on DemocracyNow!:
"It was the torture of [Ibn] al-Shaykh al-Libi who told us that it was Saddam Hussein who was training al-Qaeda in biological and chemical weapons, a claim that the Pentagon yesterday finally confirmed was utterly false. Well, that went into the President’s speech in October 2002 and was part of the main justification that took us to war. Every American military death in this war, every civilian death, every limb and leg that was lost was a life that torture took. In the end, if we’re going to talk about the value and the balance of these things, whether torture is immoral, we have to weigh all those things against the lives torture saved."
Prison is too good for these criminals.
Yeah, right there Hillary Clinton, errr Talking Point Sleuth---"Another Vast Right Wing Conspiracy"??? The beauty is us "Far-Right Republican Conspiracy Lunatics" don't have to "activate the hate" as you put it---he's doing an A+++ job of making people hate him all by himself!!! LMAO!! As far as your other comments are concerned, Commie---No. Socialist, Elitist, Arrogant, Naive, Phony---YESSSSSSS!!!
........."Obama offers some red meat for the barking left"............ Let's repeat. (1) Will asks Obama if he'd investigate the potential of criminality. (2) Obama says yes. (3) "Law and order" Republican Attytood sycophants whine like little girls.
Comment removed.
There we go. Delaware Vol. Paranoid fantasies about the commie Obama. Looks like the far-right Republican conspiracy lunatics are once again stirring about. Of course, they can't quite drum up enthusiasm about their own candidate, but they sure can activate the hate against the Democratic candidates.
Is there actually direct evidence that the torture that has been implemented on detainees actually prevented a terrorist attack? I honestly do not know (and would be glad to have info to the contrary). I think we all need to be careful to distinguish between cause and effect reasoning and just mere correlation. Just because a terrorist attack since 9/11 hasn't happened does not mean that Bush's torture policies have prevented such an attack. For all we know, it could be solid investigative police work done by the multiple law enforcement agencies, which followed procedural guidelines for warrants and wiretapping. Remember, before 9/11, terrorism was on no one's radar; just by being altered to it and being more dilligent is possibly a likely cause to the prevention of future attacks.
Obama, not the great orator his followers once thought, perhaps he needs more, oh, I dont know, experience?......"U.S. Sen. Barack Obama said yesterday that he "mangled" his words when he described small town Americans as "bitter" at a private San Francisco fundraiser."
Will: I understand that on being introduced to Barac, you genuflected and kissed his ring. FYI the Pope arrives today, not yesterday!
I'm also guessing you did not have the presence of mind to ask him about Rev. Wright "gate" or his elitist positions?
This is how the Osama, errrr Obama Cabinet would look.
Attorney General: William Ayres-Terrorist
Secretary of Defense: Rev. Jeremiah Wright-Racist, America Hater
Secretary of State: Louis Farrakhan-Racist, Anti-Semite, etc...
See, Obama could put together a "Diverse" Cabinet...
The thing that is sad and pathetic is that this is a cross-section of what an Obama administration would probably look like...
It appears to me that will is still trying to meet women with his political point of view. If he had hair I'm sure it would be draped off his shoulders. This matter is pure nonsense and the fact that Obama actually tried to answer the question without totally dismissing will shows how smooth Obama is. Smoke and mirrors....... All of Obama's words boil down to "I will look into the matter" Yeah right...
Effen hilarious. (1) Will asks Obama if he'd investigate potential criminality. (2) Obama says he would, with a sensitivity to how it might be viewed as political. (3) The "law and order" Attytood Republican sycophants whine like little girls. Effen hilarious
Effen hilarious. (1) Will asks Obama if he'd investigate potential criminality. (2) Obama says he would, with a sensitivity to how it might be viewed as political. (3) The "law and order" Attytood Republican sycophants whine like little girls. Effen hilarious
Comment removed.
True, he signed the Sedition Act of 1798, but it also cost him the election of 1800 by doing so. Also, history demonstrates that the Act was politically motiviated to stem Federalist opposition; Adams violated the principles that he once defended and it bit him in the rear, and rightfully so.
Way to go will; drag Obama into the 'politics as usual' arena, and forget the hope and change stuff. I never believed that bunk anyway.
Why is it that Democrats need to be reminded again and again that we're at war with radical Islam? They would like nothing more than see a Democrat President retreat from Iraq and elsewhere as it will give them a chance to regroup and stage another 9/11 type of attack on America.
This is a bone Baraqq Obama is throwing to the large kook fringe of the Democrat party. They all still suffer from BDS (Bush Derangement Syndrome) and Baraqq is acting as their pusher, stringing them along with fixes of BushHate until the election.
Will, has your "woody" gone down yet? Remember, you should call a doctor if it last for more that 4 hours.
Comment removed.
When government officials take the Oath of Office, they swear to preserve and defend the Constitution of the United States. Nothing else.
b.atkinson, out of curiousity, was this the same opinion you had when Clinton was President? Where you a supporter of the Whitewater Investigation and Kenneth Starr, Esq.? Did you support the impeachment proceedings of 1998? If you thought it was frivolous at the time, then at least you logically consistent; if you were foaming at the mouth to get Clinton, then your 'logic' doesn't exist and your arguments are only based ideological biases.
Personally, wrongdoing in the Executive Branch (as well as other branches) need to be investigated. The public has a right to know whether the government is abiding by the own law and constitution that they swear to uphold. Whether it was Reagan, Clinton or Bush, politicians need to be held accountable.
"Adams knew that the elimination of due process and the law is the elimination of liberty. "
Of course, Adams later turned around and signed the Sedition Act of 1798.
Details, details. I would not exactly look to John Adams as a buttress for your position here.
The Founders realized that things are different during wartime. They allowed for habeas corpus to be suspended during times of war and insurrection.
Modern liberals, however, seem more intent on protecting the rights of terrorists than the lives of unborn children.
And then they wonder why they have such a hard time getting political traction outside their urban safe havens such as Philly and San Fran.
Gotta be the guns. Or the religion. It can't possibly be their own inherent self-contradictions.
Comment removed.
What a useless question, what a useless answer ....so very typical and expected from ABC and whoever Bunch is ...to get the Liberals excited and drooling all over themselves !!
A President Obama is a joke to start with !! The "God of the Democratics" who will go down in a general election defeat in a bigger way than Kerry, Gore, Dukasis, Mondale, McGovern, Humphrey, and Stevenson !!
Obama is already showing signs of a "big loser" and wait till everyone realizes he is a Black Militant with ties to a Middle East terrorist !! And they think ...they have problems with "bitter" now !!
I am loving it !!
Ohhhhh, bring back the good old days of Carter and Clinton !!
http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/
Spewing nonsense from Michael Rivero, eh? That guy is such a nutcase that he once speculated that Russ Byer's murder was the result of a conspiracy to kill conservative columnists. Pathetic.
Comment removed.
Hey, Will, this post got linked on FreeRepublic:
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2001668/posts
What does the founder of BET care about race? His television programming shows African-Americans in the same light as minstrel shows of years ago. He doesn't care about race; only the profits of his television network. BET only perpetuates racial preconceptions and gives Bill Cosby ammunition for his speeches.
But, also, the converse of the Ferraro statement is would Hillary have such a good portion of the white middle-class vote and the white elderly vote if she wasn't white? Also, Johnson is wrong on his statistics; Obama never started with 90% of the black vote. Many African-Americans originally were voting for Clinton (Obama had a majority, but not as big as he does now). African-Americans only started to turn to Obama after he proved his mettle on the campaign.
There is not one shred of evidence of any criminal wrongdoing in the Bush Administration. You libs can't touch them. Get over it.
FOUNDER OF BET IS A RACIST?
BET founder backs Ferraro on Obama
Associated Press, by Staff
Charlotte - The billionaire founder of Black Entertainment Television says Barack Obama would not be a leading presidential candidate if he were white and that the Illinois senator's campaign has ''a hair-trigger on anything racial.'' (Snip) ''What I believe Geraldine Ferraro meant is that if you take a freshman senator from Illinois called 'Jerry Smith' and he says I'm going to run for president, would he start off with 90% of the black vote?'' Johnson said. ''And the answer is, probably not.''
Hmmmm.....I wonder what shock the Founding Fathers would be in if the read some of the comments on this blog? Constitution, civil liberties? Who cares? Just give us security and safety.....Does Patrick Henry's speech before the Colonial Virginia legislature, which concluded witht he famous phrase "Give me Liberty or give me Death", ring hollow today?
We are a nation of laws and the highest of those laws is the Constitution and its Amendments. It is from these laws that we have liberty, freedom, justice and order. Disregard those laws or change them on the whim of the Chief Executive, then there is no justice.
Remember, it is PROCEDURE of our justice and legal system that keeps the system fair and all Americans safe. I think this principal is fully illustrated by the recent HBO series "John Adams" when Adams defended the British soldiers from murder charges stemming from the Boston Massacre. To Adams, notions of law and order and due process were essential in preserving the rights and liberties afforded to everyone. By failing to afford the British soldiers the right to due process and a vigorous legal defense would have made the criticisms of the British government in the name of liberty ring hollow. Adams did not care to put public opinion or the political biases of his fellow colonists ahead of the principles of liberty and due process. Adams knew that the elimination of due process and the law is the elimination of liberty.
It is the law and the Constitution that protects from the basest tendencies of our fellow man and our government. A terroristic threat will probably always exist; but we should not be susceptible to harm from both our government and our nation's enemies.
Funny how those who claim to be for America and for the laws want to turn it into a third-world country where dicatators can do whatever to whomever they want in the name of national security. Al-qaeda kills people, so we should. Great argument. To hell with waterboarding, let's burn them all at the stake on national TV. Show the world what a civilized nation does. I'm sure it will make loons like genius, ian happy.
http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/anthraxsuspect.html
http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/motherofallscandals.html
http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/spyring.html
http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/spyring2.html
Don't worry all justice will be served this is total garbage.
http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/israelis_9-11.html
Wow I'm so SURPRISED that Obama is basically going to do nothing but prosecute a few underlings while the main ZIONISTS (read: neocons = super zionists) get away with FURTHER torture and further crimes.
http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/motherofallscandals.html
http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/hundreds.html
http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/wtc_charges.html
http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/anthrax_suspect.html
http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/israelis_9-11.html
http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/spyring2.html
AND THEN OF COURSE
http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/spyring.html
http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/palestinians.html
Wake UP the world!!!!!!!!
Douglas Feith, all of his friends are Zion fanatics and we have all been lied to!!!!!!!
http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/blackmail.html
But don't you worry Obama, NO ONE will get away with a thing because we're bringing in the international cops.
Right wingers are cowards.
"After a while, when the politics and chicks nexus never came together, I reassessed my behavior and went in another direction."
________________________
You're projecting. Just because you were shallow and fickle doesn't mean others don't have true convictions. Some people actually believe, and can support with real law and precedent, that crimes may have been committed. They're not interested in prosecuting the Bush administration for the "chicks."
I'm real jealous because the last time the Democrats ran the administration, a gazillion of Hilly & Willie's cronies ended up staying at the Graybar Hotel. With President Bush in charge for almost 8 years, the number of Administration officials who went to do a stretch is negligible; I'm honest when I say I can't think of any, although there's no doubt you guys have a list all ready. What is it, 3? 5?
First thing you Lefty dudes need to do is 'get' the difference between a mistake and a lie. It's a simple distinction. That takes care of most of the problems.
I admit I've been pretty stumped for the past 8 years by all the vitriol and wasted energy exerted by many of my boomer former friends, trying to convince the world that something went terribly wrong in America and President George W. Bush is to blame.
Lately, tho, I'm beginning to understand that history does repeat itself. Back in 1967-68, I was a young scamp heavily into rock music, poetry, radical politics - anything that I thought might help me score some ladies. We screamed that the war must end and LBJ must go, and I was surprised when most of my classmates rejected our rowdiness. I was angry, certain that the fix was in, that Dow Chemical was a criminal company - you know, the same kind of pot-banging paranoia being staged by today's Kossacks - but we had better hair.
After a while, when the politics and chicks nexus never came together, I reassessed my behavior and went in another direction. Then, while my back was turned, the people who rejected our politics became a 'movement' and I remember thinking, "How silly."
Today, we have thousands of those aging baby boomers still clinging to that nutso Left-wing junk. The heroes who stood up for America after 9/11 are somehow cast as villains.
I say again, "How silly."
This is exactly the question I've been waiting for the press to ask, and Obama answered perfectly.
Hulk sarcastically wants to know what would be solved by prosecuting the Bush Crime Family. Here's your answer: When you break the law and are punished, future people see that and are deterred from committing crime. It's worked for millenia.
Muslims killed Americans, so we should torture some Muslims? Anything the gov't does is OK as long as my kid is safe? Why are there so many half-witted, hand-walking right-wing freaks on this blog? Crimes have been committed on a grand and murderous scale by this administration and it is treasonous not to hold them accountable. If you don't understand this, CNN, ABC and Hannity have poisoned your mind. If the war criminals in this group are above the law, what deters future presidents from genocide and whizzing on the constitution, too? You idiots (test: if you use the word "lib", you're an idiot) out there had better stop believing all the crap you get from your talk shows and find the real news. 9/11 means you can torture people? That's reactionary, not American. We're supposed to defend ourselves, but we're supposed to think, too.
IanMc seems to believe that anything and everything can be excused by invoking 9/11/01.
Wouldn't be a breath of fresh air to have a president that actually followed the constitution instead of calling it a "damn piece of paper"? Or a president that actually followed the law instead of ignoring it or having his lawyer friends misinterpret it or writing something at the bottom that said he was excluded from it? Nothing the Bush administration has done has stopped terrorism. In fact, what he has done has helped OBL achieve his goals, from taking out Saddam at the expense of our military instead of his terror group, to the abolishment of our freedoms to the downfall of our economy. All are part of his agenda and Bush has helped him achieve it. I am looking forward to anyone that actually stands up for the constitution and goes after those responsible for the attack on our country.
Do you remember what happened on 9/11/01, gimmeabreak? I wish Democrats like Obama did.
I don't have my hopes up that there will be much prosecution. Bush&Co are slippery characters and congress has passed some pretty vague laws to cover their criminal asses with. Hell, the AUMF alone is the gift that keeps on giving. And on the domestic front, the Patriot Act is like a portmanteau law. We could, however, prosecute a whole bunch of appointees for malfeasance but it wouldn't be a much fun.
I am concerned with the safety of my kid, period! So if you need to torture, go right ahead.
IanMc - that was snark, right?
I love that the poster styling himself "The Genius" decided that the standard we should hold ourselves to isn't the one set by the rest of civilized society, but al Qaeda. For someone who thinks that everyone who disagrees with George Bush is a terrorist-coddler, he sure seems to think that the terrorists set the bar for our nation. The Founders--who insisted that our new nation conduct itself with more respect for humanity than the British and Hessians showed to our people in order to prove our worthiness as a world power--would be proud of such "genius" rationalizations.
That makes a lot of sense. Let's waste time and tax payer dollars looking for potential crimes of the previous administration. And that would solve what exactly?
I feel so much better knowing that a President Obama is going to spend his time and energy going after his fellow Americans who have been protecting us from the Islamic terrorists who are intent on killing Americans.
Wouldn't it be something to have a president who not only understands and respects the constitution, but has the judgement to distinguish really bad policy from crimes and put the good of the country ahead of political gain or retribution. I think I'll vote Obama! Respect for the law and the constitution is my kind of partiotism.
Defending the Constitution is what the President and all sworn officials explicitly swear in the Oath of Office. They don't swear to kick ass, they don't swear to assuage the cowardly genius above. Why do you hate the Constitution so much, genius? Because your Boy George can't run for a third term anymore? Because you're so afraid of the boogeyman and you need the big Mommy Government to look tough to make you feel safe when you get tucked into bed every night?
Amazing, isn't it, that idiots like genius (or should I say geniuses like Idiot?), still have so much hatred for some 1/2 of the American public.
Logical sequencing in the mind of an Idiot: (1) "Libz" are concerned about potential that policies were implimented by government officials knowlingly breaking the law. (2) Obama says that if such offenses occurred, he'd take it seriously. (3) Idiot/genius calls libz "Sally boys."
I can only guess the next.... (4) Obama says something politically incorrect, (5) Idiot/genius gets "concerned" and worries that Obama won't make a good president.
Joe Galloway has said he thinks Bush will pardon all of his buddies, including himself, before he leaves the White House.
Great question, Will, and a typically thoughtful answer from Obama. I would expect that he, as a teacher of constitutional law, would recognize crimes against the Constitution. Regarding the two comments above from "The Genius," he or she is not much of a genius or even careful reader. Although your last sentence did focus on waterboarding, the gist of the post transcended that one possible crime. Also, when does defending the Constitution or calling for crimes to be punished become "hate America first?" I believe that defending the Constitution and fair but strict treatment of criminals is a main strand of "love America."
Comment removed.
Comment removed.
141 comments | View All | Paginate Comments
About Will Bunch
Will's book: Learn about it here and purchase it here.
Will Bunch, a senior writer at the Philadelphia Daily News, blogs about his obsessions, including national and local politics and world affairs, the media, pop music, the Philadelphia Phillies, soccer and other sports, not necessarily in that order.
Will Bunch, a senior writer at the Philadelphia Daily News, blogs about his obsessions, including national and local politics and world affairs, the media, pop music, the Philadelphia Phillies, soccer and other sports, not necessarily in that order.
E-mail Will by clicking here.
PLEASE COMMENT WITH PASSION...
...but not with racial slurs, potentially libelous allegations, obscenities or other juvenile noise. Such comments will, at our discretion, be deleted in their entirety, and repeat offenders will be blocked from commenting. ALSO: Any commenter advocating killing any government official will be immediately banned.
Thanks.
- Atrios
- Kiko's House
- Suburban Guerilla
- Booman Tribune
- All-Spin Zone
- Philly (Dragonballyee)
- Afro-Netizen
- Rowhouse Logic
- MyDD
- Bad Attitudes
- Billmon
- iFlipFlop
- CorrenteWire
- upyernoz
- Tattered Coat
- Fables of the Reconstruction
- Slacktivist
- Citizen Mom
- The Next Mayor
- Philly Future
- Philadelphia Will Do
- Philebrity
- Young Philly Politics
- Phillyblog
- Welcome to Phillyville
- Phawker
- A List of Things Thrown Five Minutes Ago
- Keystone Blog
- Philadelphia - America's Hometown
- BlankBaby
- Above Average Jane
- Phillyist
- Metroblogging Philadelphia
- The Clog
- Josh Marshall
- Daily Kos
- Juan Cole
- Oliver Willis
- Andy Borowitz
- War and Piece
- Wonkette
- BuzzFlash
- Raw Story
- Cursor
- Crooks and Liars
- Swing State Project
- Kevin Drum
- Talk Left
- AmericaBlog
- Hullabaloo
- Mad Kane
- Think Progress
- Jesus' General
- The Carpetbagger Report
- Majikthise
- Echidne of the Snakes
- David Sirota
- Glenn Greenwald
- TBogg
- Fire Dog Lake
- Taylor Marsh
- Matthew Yglesias
- Jon Swift
- Drudge Report
- Beer Leaguer
- The 700 Level
- Dick Polman
- Balls, Sticks and Stuff
- Shallow Center
- Philling Station
- Phillies Nation
- A Citizen's Blog
- The Good Phight
- Romenesko
- Editor and Publisher
- Pressthink
- Buzzmachine
- The Inksniffer
- Media Bloodhound
- Eat the Press
- Mickey Kaus
- Media (Huffington Post)
- Blinq
- The Corner
- Instapundit
- Andrew Sullivan
- Free Republic
- James Taranto
- Blonde Sagacity
- ScrappleFace
- Blogorrhea
Blog Roll
Get it now
Philly.com Promotions
- News | Sports | Business | What's Happening | Restaurants & Food | Entertainment | Living | Marketplace | Jobs
Site Services:
Classifieds:
- Jobs | Cars | Real Estate | Rentals | Marketplace | Celebrations
Partners:
