Um, about that mean union that killed the Hostess Twinkie....
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Um, about that mean union that killed the Hostess Twinkie....
Actually, the real killer was Colonel Moneybags in the boardroom with a money siphon:
Hostess Brands Inc. said it used wages that were supposed to help fund employee pensions for the company's operations as it sank toward bankruptcy.
It isn't clear how many of the Irving, Texas, company's workers were affected by the move or how much money never wound up in their pension plans as promised.
After the company said in August 2011 that it would stop making pension contributions, the foregone wages weren't put toward the pension. Nor were they restored.
The maker of Twinkies, Ho-Hos and Wonder Bread filed for bankruptcy protection in January and shut down last month following a strike by one of the unions representing Hostess workers. A judge is overseeing the sale of company assets.
Gregory Rayburn, Hostess's chief executive officer, said in an interview it is "terrible" that employee wages earmarked for the pension were steered elsewhere by the company.
But I'm sure it's still the union's fault? Somehow. Am I right?
Comments (98)
No, Will, you are wrong in your shallow conclusion. This was a symptom of the problem, not the cause. Costly Teamster work rules, like bread and cake had to be delivered in separate trucks, caused the problem.
— Cazptain Philadelphia- Its nice to see all the republican scab busters cry about unions.It means your a loser,you lost Mittsers just get over it.Blame your own right wing kkk members for ruining your party.Whats next knowing how to pick your nose ?Learn something about unions and what they stand for before you bad mouth them.If it wasnt for unions the scabs like all of you losers wouldnt have a decent pay becasue the scab companies you work for wouldnt have to pay you a decent living to compete.You all are reaping the benifits of the hard fight unions provided.The forty hr workweek,decent wages,health care,pensions and a safe enviroment to work in .Dont you want to go home to your family after a hard days work or just the bar you misinformed mistfits.Just look at the history of unions as to why they were created in the first place you might learn something about the american worker, thats all i ask.— cityslicker
- @Phillies2008WSChamps
Change your name you are a disgrace to use it.You are clueless about unions and money.Do you realize that all baseball lplayers are union.Did the big contracts hurt the phillies bank account.Everyone made money.So your theory that unions are useless and cost companies money is about as right as you, you are a useless human being and I hope you never lose your scab pickers job.You make me sick !!!— cityslicker - "The product is terrible." . . . . . The product hadn't changed much since WW2, back when managers weren't afraid to adapt to changing market conditions.— montani semper liberi
"Clearly the union leaders fail to understand that we are in difficult times and the union must adapt so that their members can keep their jobs." . . . . . . Wait, I thought it was the job of the job-creators to adapt, not the workers. Isn't that why they get the big bonuses, even during "difficult times" (even while in bankruptcy), and are to be worshipped whenever we discuss tax policy? So now we expect the workers to figure out how to keep their jobs? Interesting.- Crazybrave1 your post is such lunacy, I don't know where to start. Get ready for tough times? Where have you been? I just chortle and shake my head. Brain dead. After numerous concessions, otherwise stated as workers taking the brunt of bad sales, the union said enough. No more. I just looked at the wage scales for a number of different Hostess employees. They weren't making much money. Their pension contributions were meager. I'll say it again - the business was doomed, regardless. Sales were awful, for good reason. The product is terrible.— Murrayman
- "Right to work laws should be implemented in every State in the country and let workers decide." . . . . . . Why not let the workers decide if they should be implemented in the first place. So what if they're likely to see an average loss of $1,500.00 in annual wages in a right to work state?
- This whole event is a story of how a union failed it's members, who are now living on the dole. Clearly the union leaders fail to understand that we are in difficult times and the union must adapt so that their members can keep their jobs. It's only going to get worse over the next 4, maybe longer, years. This ship, America, is sinking, Obama is at the wheel, he has no idea what to do to get us going again, TAXES are not going to do it, so we better get ready for some tough times.— Crazybrave1
- yeap, you are correct. no strike=company still in business.— raynesrock
- yeap, you are correct. no strike=company still in business.— raynesrock
- You really believe that? The strike was a convenient excuse for the hedge funders to cash-in after stealing the pension funds.
No strike, it would've been another excuse.— carl and sons - That "mean union"? there is no distinction, the unions function in two modes union-thug and or union-thug-criminal mode. They exist only for the gangsters who run them just like any other criminal enterprise. If you are crafty enough you can become a "made" member or a union boss just like the mafia. It's been a long time since unions have not been anything other than defacto criminal enterprises bent on destroying public and private entities. Right to work laws should be implemented in every State in the country and let workers decide.— Speak-truth-2-power
- Hello, My name is Will and I have a problem with lying.— CD75
- Maybe Will will write a column about Leland, ex-con, ex-actor, Beloff and his best bud, Bob Brady, and the federal grants to his "for profit" senior care centers.— Right To Be Heard
- Or how 'bout a post on the immorality of the people who spent over 2 BILLION dollars on a presidential campaign?
— michael_b - "As a result, hundreds lost their jobs in what could only be described as a Pyrrhic victory for the intransigent union leadership." . . . . I hope your father found good work in another trade or industry. At least he kept his dignity rather than settle down the road of concessions here, concessions there, until one day he finds himself in no better shape than a sweatshop worker in the third world.
- " What most people don't know is MOST GOVERNMENT PENSIONS ARE NOT FUNDED because politicians are spending the money on voters to get re-elected. If little Willie was so concerned why is he not talking about that?" I would be impressed if will or anyone had any clue what you were referring to? Are you suggesting that entitlement money is funneled to special interests, in order to buy votes? Yeah will, why don't you talk about that more. Paranoia is legion among the right wing.— Murrayman
- they would all have a job if the unions would have coperated . its that simple folks . what part of it do you brain dead union fools not understand?? the average working person can no longer support the union high and mighty way of living . obama is destroying the country . the dictator has crushed the average wage down 4 k and you union goons refuse to se that . wow . you all are brain dead . just like the nhl we dont have the money anymore to give!!. what part do yoiu clowns not get?— matthewbrandley
- Once again Willie Panties in a Bunch shows an amazing ignorance of the law or else a deepseated desire to spin the truth. What the company did was legal since it gave notice. They did not "divert" money, they simply stopped paying into the pension fund. Virtually every pension manager has seen virtually every company do it whenever the company simply does not have enough cash. It is legal since a healthy company will then make up the difference. Congress created this allowance because it gives time to a company on the edge to come up with a solution rather then bankrupt the company and loose everything. It was a HUGE NOTICE to the union that the company could not survive without real change. Bunch should know this since the Inky has done it to him. What most people don't know is MOST GOVERNMENT PENSIONS ARE NOT FUNDED because politicians are spending the money on voters to get re-elected. If little Willie was so concerned why is he not talking about that?— Dutch-wayne
Sounds like this bankruptcy was a well-organized group effort between management and the unions...probably the only thing they ever agreed upon. Sure management pigs got huge payoffs in the end. BUT the end would never have happened if union rules didn't force such stringent and ridiculous work rules intop the employee contract. e.g, the same guy who delivered Twinkies could not deliver Wonder bread as just one example. Of course idiots like Will Bunch will blame management exclusively, but anyone fair can see this was a group suicide.— The Monk- Greed is good. Keep it up and we will all be extinct before we know it. I do not care to take a side because it doesn't matter anymore. Every man/woman and child for themselves. Good Luck!— A. Martinez
- It is both the union and the managements fault this company failed. The management for not driving the company to evolve to meet the changing tastes of the consumer and the union for pushing work rules and practices that led to higher costs. Now both of the foolish parties are out of work. Nice job idiots.— Wildman Bill
- Let's look at this from a slightly biased viewpoint. The upper level management probably misused and misappropriated the pension contribution funds it redirected to "keep operating". It's at the minimum a bad call and two, illegal if some of this money was used to keep paying the Board "incrowd" substanial salaries while the workers walked. Was it right? We'll hopefully get to the truth in short order. We don't know the sinister. inside "poop" that was evolving, but knowing how ownership generally operates (on the average, of course) something stinks....Let's see how things end up...— oblekr
- No way, Will. You sided with a union? Shocker!— TVGuy22
- "When do we get some investigative journalism into the feds dipping into my coercively extracted social security "contributions"?" I think I speak for all people of reason when I say you are completely bereft of any clue whatsoever. If you want to know the history of Hostess, look at the number of times concessions were agreed upon, only to have senior management attempt to extract more. This is the same senior management that gave themselves raises. The conclusion is that most likely the business model is what did the company in. Their sales are what hurt them.— Murrayman
- What are these "Pension" things everyone keeps talking about? I mean they sound great. My employer has to keep paying me a salary even after I stopped working. Sign me up.
Maybe I can find an employer where I get paid to pretend to work by just pointing out the real work of the people around me who are working.— barlowjames1 - Maybe you'll die of starvation on the street somewhere. — carl and sons
- I am by no means pro-union, but I have to side with the union in this issue.. I am sick and tired of these corporate MBA-types that pilfer profitable companies for their short-term gain. Their should be an enforceable law against pilfering a pension fund, where if found guilty, the corporate managers would be personally liable to refund/replenish the funds..— USAFirst1
Comment removed.- If someone broke in my house and stole my TV because they wanted to watch the Eagles game, at first I may be be upset, but after thinking about the other end of the spectrum I would understand because watching the Eagles is fun, and if they promised to bring my TV back after the game and also if the Eagles win I would be all for it.
After they bought the tools that allowed them to pry off my doorknob, and if the American dream is to continue everyone has to have a TV to watch the Eagles with. Some people feel entitled just because they went to Best Buy and paid for the TV themselves with their own money, but where did that kind of thinking ever get anyone? Those people don't think about anyone but themselves and the Eagles still might lose the game. Also I would let them take my beer.— carl and sons 
When textile mills in the South (and later, Japan) started attracting business at the expense of the mills here in Philadelphia, the unions often refused to coöperate with management to find ways to compete more effectively. By not accepting any adjustments in work rules or compensation, they left mill owners like my father no choice but to merge with out-of-state operations or simply go out of business.
I remember my dad's anguish when workers his company had supported through the worst of the Depression defiantly rejected any attempt to negotiate terms that would have allowed the mill to survive. As a result, hundreds lost their jobs in what could only be described as a Pyrrhic victory for the intransigent union leadership.
It was a searing childhood memory for me, and an early lesson I never forgot.- Nice picture. Was your dad a snake too, or did that come from your mom's side? — carl and sons
- You home from school early today, Carl?
You might want to get your homework done before posting...
— michael_b - Wow, what a story.
Your father sounds like a man of integrity. I wonder if his story is part of the MBA programs that that produce todays "managers".
— michael_b - I don't have any faith in this hack columnist but I do appreciate the intelligent commenters on both sides of the issues. From all of your input, I think the company ran it's course and was going out of business. Not sure either the union or management could save it.— Gray Areas
- I hate this attitude where one must lick the boots of these execs to keep a job. Why workers feel this way is beyond comprehension. And more and more workers have this way. Unions prevent this silly way of thinking. It is like slavery. Very upsetting. Where is your self respect?— ephraim
- These "men" have been castrated long ago. They are a bunch of pants-wetting grovelers. Whatever the big boss man says....
To answer your question, the have no self-respect. Take my pension money, my wife, my children... yes master, yes master...— carl and sons - And what management took pay cuts when the company was so "desparate"? Oh, pay raises you say?
Nevermind....— podunko - Are there ANY union companies that thrive? Just another forerunner to Detroit. Unions = Fail.— mdm711
- It's sad that american workers don't support unions. It was the unions that created the middle class, social security, healthcare, and better working conditions. And now millionaire CEO's and executives are trying to get rid of unions so they can go back to the days of poor working conditions and slave wages. It's a shame people allow themselves to be brainwashed by FOX news and Limbaugh.— ej610
- This is probably by far Will's laziest work and very disappointing. Are you trying to allow republitards to use there crazy today (imagination for the rest of us)? Hostess was fleeced by the CEO and every other greedy POS EXPECIALLY THE PRIVATE EQUITY FIRM (aka think MITT ROMNEY) that aquired it in 2004. IF you think I'm making it up, this is public knowledge. The same private equity firm is pouring millions of dollars into the media relm (internet, TV talk shows,...you name it) to cover up the real facts and blame the unions. The sad part is, they, the corprate raiders, fleeced the company coffers(which were flush with cash), made the unions take multiple pay cuts, then STOLE their pension$. If that wasn't enough they asked the union to take another pay cut - avg worker went from just over $16/hr in 2004 to under $12 in 2012 - Yeah that means it was impossible to live in this country on that wage! Yet the officers in the company were making records salaries. This is the problem with our country - the 1% steal our living wages and then blame us for the company faltering. While the RED half of the 99% is too stupid to realize the lies pouring out of the elites mouths. We need to come together on this. They send our jobs over seas for short term gain just like they are doing in the stock market, they are making records amounts of money, NYC is now has the largest income inequality the world has ever seen!!! When is enough enough? Short term corprate greed is sinking this country - not the unions!
http://chronicle.augusta.com/opinion/letters/2012-12-06/unions-didnt-kill-hostess— Atlas - No fact and just a few paragraphs. Nice article, Wiil Bunch. And you wonder why the Inquirer is about to die.— Nipsey Russell
- The unions had given MAJOR concessions and the company wanted more...actually the executives wanted the company to go bankrupt so they could cash out. The unions just helped them get there. Executives looted the pension fund - not just the company's obligation, but the workers' contributions as well (money they earned and put away for their retirement)- when they couldn't take anymore, they demanded more from the union AND filed for bankruptcy protection FROM the employees (their largest creditor) thus forcing a strike and leading them to liquidate. This course of action and each step that occurred was meticulously planned for over a year. The workers were going to lose their jobs anyway - liquidation was the end result of the plan. They should have put a stop on the pension looting long ago. Now they have nothing and the fat rat executives who plotted against them are getting rich from their crimes.— msmame
- SD flyer makes a good point will bunch. When do we get some investigative journalism into the feds dipping into my coercively extracted social security "contributions"? Stinkin baby boomers!— teardownthisfishwrap
- ...and yet, Will Bunch has a beard.
Those dummies at the unions knew what was going on.— discobiscuit - The union required that different trucks had to separately deliver the Twinkies & Wonder bread. I wonder if husband & wife union worker separately deliver their kids to school in the morning? lol. I'm sure there were other stupid work rules, as there usually are with unions today (see Pennsy convention ctr).— teardownthisfishwrap
- Comment removed.
- Stick to sports. — AreaMan
- "Of course, unions think about themselves first and the viability of the industry second" . . . . That's how life works in a free market, each participant acting out of self-interest, right? So that's the union's job. The company certainly didn't seem worried about the workers' viability. But you may as well blame sugar and flour vendors for refusing to cut their prices, out of their own self-interest. In the end, the union did its part in maximizing the efficiency of marketplace, by pushing a mismanaged company into insolvency.— montani semper liberi
- hey union bashers, stop posting on here, go get in your car and go get to that $4 hr. job of yours!— sgamble077
- living wage?? how about Raping wage, most of my union members are making over 100 hr, for shoddy slow work F-ing disgrace!— bigtom blew3
- Now this guy is a business major! What a joke this is. I won't even call it an article since its obvious he put NO effort into this. Please try to do just a LITTLE research into what is a complex problem before you print a factless "blurb" that affects many peoples lives.— beermoney
- Lousy management decisions, lousy union choices (gee, I'll vote fo NO job). UNfortunately in a capitalist system inefficient businesses and/or a product that does not sell will not last. Oh yeah, and Will Buunch isn't 'biased', is he???— Openyoureyesfolks
- Unions suck!!— mainstreet
- So the unions see the managgement get 80% raises and bonuses, yet were supposed to take more wage and benefit cuts? Where was the management sacrifice? What did they give back? Nothing, that's what. Another Bain-type deal where a hedge fund comes in, robs the business blind, grabs the money then closes it. Isn't this a great country?— mike l
- Corrupt management, no doubt. But, do you think the unions at this company were pure, sweet, and innocent when it came to bringing this company down?— FletcherT
- Ok so let me clear something up. TWO unions were working for hostess one the teamsters who agreed to the cuts and did not strike, not only did they not strike they they warned the baker's union not to strike and take the cuts which were only 3% and would be worked back in. the baker's union refused to listen and went on strike anyway. Will Bunch your "article" is like 98% if your "articles" a distortion of the facts but hey dont let the truth get in the way of your opnions
— Iknowyourider - The Executives shouldn't be bonused with remaining cash. They should have claw backs to get the cash out of them and/or be facing severe prison time. It is not right to steal from others.— jonline
- yes still the union fault. Now they have no jobs, no income until maybe someone buys it and only if they decide to re hire these guys. BTW your dues are required by January 1.— tony bell
- Bartfr: Where did you get the idea that the "dems, liberals have had control of the government for 4 yrs. with 4 more coming!"? Just because there's a Democratic president doesn't automatically translate to "control of the government". In case you haven't noticed, Congress is in gridlock because neither party has sufficient control to implement its agenda. But, don't let it stop you from putting all the blame on one side.— flyer6851
- Congress is in gridlock because neither party has an agenda. — AreaMan
- Was represented by a Union for 30 years and was very glad that I was, just sayin'...— DJ
- I was represented by a Union for 5 years and I am very glad that I am not now! Working harder than the peers is now actually rewarding! — dankil13
- This sounds like nothing more than an effort to whitewash the selfishness and greed of the unions by trying to dig up dirt on the company. Isn't this really apples and oranges? What is the connection? Will's case against Hostess is far from convincing, but even if his accusations are true, it is in no way a rebuttal against the criticism of the unions which basically is this...Hostess was in severe financial hardship and was seeking relief, including concessions from the unions. The union (leaders) refused to help or negotiate and so Hostess went bankrupt. How does Will's distracting accusations in any way change these facts? Were the unions NOT greedy, selfish, and incredibly stupid?— bartfr
Hostess, 2 times in bankruptcy and 2 times given special financing, doubled the amount of debt. Gee, with almost $800 million in high interest corporate debt, where can we cut expenses so that hedge fund managers get their monthly payment of principal and interest? Hmmm? Pension funds? Wages?? Benefits??? And who keeps cashing big fees for providing financing to a bankrupt company, over and over again, until the debt, like an anchor, sinks the whole enterprise? Private equity Bain type vulture capitalists? They broke union after after union and made fees doing it. Then they sell off the brands and real estate assets. Of course, the pension fund has long since been looted, so all of the capital invested was just a balance sheet switch. The now empty pension funds had their cash diverted back to the lender. The union financed their own liquidation. Thanks capitalism, watching you die every day is a real pleasure.- Will - Please investigate the biggest crime currently being committed against Americans, it is called Social Security. I am forced to pay in (no opt out allowing me to go it alone), and by all projections it will be bankrupt before I can get out even a fraction of what I put in. I suggest you take your excellent investigative reporting skills, head to Washington DC and figure this out.— SDFlyer
- This sounds similar to what happened to my wife. Her employer withheld money from her paychecks for 401(k) contributions and then never made the contributions. Fortunately, she had saved all of her paycheck stubs.— archie stark
- So nobody thinks that a company that has to raid the pension funds just to continue operating is in trouble? Seriously? That's a big red flag that something is seriously wrong and the company isn't healthy. If I were an employee I'd be less outraged over my pension and more worried that this was a sign the company was probably about to fold entirely. Of course, unions think about themselves first and the viability of the industry second.— Gilliam
- So unlike the executives who are always thinking of others. — carl and sons
- if the middle class continues to sit on its rear and watch american idol, these right wing kooks are going to destroy everything you enjoy. WAKE UP PEOPLE!
- psssst...high water....I got news for you...the folks watching AI are not just Repubs. And...you Dems/Libs have had control of the government for 4 yrs. with 4 more coming!...if things are being destroyed (and they ARE) it isn't the Repubs doing it! — bartfr
- republican stools like you are destroying this country. the american people just told you what they think of your "ideas."
- hey republicans, you destroy my union, you can count on me not paying back the loans I needed to get me through college. bet.
- The fact that this person (allegedly) attended college speaks volumes about the quality of higher education. — Jack Klompus
- A college education, and only a union twinkie maker....nice. — discobiscuit
- Doesn't this comment really say it all? This is the mentality and character of unions and their supporters? No wonder we are in trouble. Classy! — bartfr
- The union was well aware that Hostess was in a horrible position financially. In fact, they were surprised that the company hadn't already gone bankrupt. They knew the company wasn't bluffing.
The union already gave significant concessions -- in the form of $120 million out of its pension and in the form of pay cuts -- and it is incorrect for the anti-union folk to suggest the union was somehow selfish or naive in this.
Well, I suppose the union was naive in that they stuck around long enough to let the bosses secretly steal even more of their pension money. But I don't see how such an occurrence -- which the current Hostess CEO doesn't even try to defend -- reflects poorly on the union (as opposed to the looting executives).— jimmer12 - It's remarkable to me how many people are so quick to bash unions for expecting a living wage and benefits for the rank-and-file workers, and then give a pass to corporate greed. I guess it doesn't matter that corporate executives continue to take millions from the company for their own salaries and bonuses, even though the business struggles financially.
So, keep it up union bashers. There's a $2/hr job in your grandchildren's future.— ProudKenso - This is an old, tired, and misleading argument. What the unions call a "living wage" is far more than that, especially when you add in benefits etc. The demands of several unions, including teachers unions, to get significant pay raises when most workers are having their salaries frozen or reduced in bad economic times symbolizes their greed and ignorance. Trying to extract blood from a stone that is in severe financial stress is just foolish.
And yes, some executives are just as greedy and corrupt.
but does this in any way excuse the unions from their actions? Is this an argument of "Hey, THEY'RE abusing the system! What's wrong with ME abusing the system"! Is this really the argument you want to make for unions? "Yeah, maybe I'm greedy! But,but...so are they!" ?— bartfr - "...The demands of several unions, including teachers unions, to get significant pay raises when most workers are having their salaries frozen or reduced in bad economic times symbolizes their greed and ignorance..."_____However, the real problem is management, or school boards, that cave to union demands. If you don't like the wages, benefits,...that union workers receive, don't blame the rank-and-file for demanding it - blame management for agreeing to give it. Management controls the 'purse strings'. Union workers only get what management has agreed to pay them through collective bargaining.
— snad264 - "but does this in any way excuse the unions from their actions? Is this an argument of "Hey, THEY'RE abusing the system! What's wrong with ME abusing the system"! Is this really the argument you want to make for unions? "Yeah, maybe I'm greedy! But,but...so are they!" ?"
Exactly, the unions keep going around using that capitalist argument that everybody needs to look out for their own. They have read Atlas Shrugged too many times and now they are putting their own cares and concerns ahead of the company's and even co-workers livelihood. They need to adapt to this new economy where everybody sacrifices and waits patiently for their share.— AreaMan - That should tell you how bad it was that the management had to steal from pension funds just to keep the company going. If the union, which refused to believe the company's financial position, thought of someone other than itself, the company wouldn't have been so desperate.— Phillies2008WSChamps
- Ready. Shoot. Aim. Shouldn't someone gather (all) the facts before reaching a conclusion. The article admits the situation is vague at best. Bottom line: Company said what it could afford, union declined the offer and company and jobs are gone.— Issac
- Sounds a lot like what John Corzine did with depositors "segregated accounts" money that he blew.— Phishface
- Just so you understand, the company redirected the employees money. To help you understand, it would be the same as if your company took your 6% 401(k) contribution and put it to operating the company instead.— cboath
- Great analogy, cboath! — TheLowDown
- No -- there wasn't any employee contributions in the fund. It was strictly company money (earmarked for pensions, true, but it wasn't funded from employee pay). — battman21
- I call bull. The pension contribution is part of the salary compensation package for these people. It was not a free "gift" given by the company. Hostess was not allowed to do what it did with the pensioners money, no matter WHO made the contribution. — TheLowDown
- Serves them right.— PresidentSpock
- Wow news columnist...that is a major league reach... some serious fact bending going on that column.— Gray Areas
- Boy did the Teamsters get effed by the Bakers.— Mr. Smith
- And yet the executives that killed the company got millions in bonuses...— Pelti
- If I read this correctly, the money that was not put into the pension fund was after the August notice that no more would be put in. The way the article is laid out, it tries to insinuate that the entire pension plan was terminated. Actually, if they had any sense in the union they would have realized back then that the company was in trouble and tried to help it survive---especially by not striking. In my 82 years I have seen many companies go down the tubes because the people refused to believe that it could happen. At some point owners choose to stop sending good money after bad. Articles such as this are intellectually dishonest and misinform the very people who are hurt the worst by encouraging them to resent those who give them jobs. Kind of like the country which voted with resentment and envy(one of the capital sins)last month.— supernova
- According to Will, the company took pension funds and tried to save the company...bad! However, when unions take members dues and give it to Politicians without any approval...good! Funny double standard Will has. — cb54
- Do any of them have a job now?— Mirror
- They wouldn't have had jobs anyway, but the management walked away with 80% raises. But, yeah, it is all the unions' fault. BS! — mike l
- I can't wait till Pennsylvania gets a "Right to Work" law like the one soon to be signed in Michigan. Then we'll see how many "loyal" union members really want to be a part of the locals. — cb54
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