"We were a little surprised"
Are the Democrats too nice for a knife fight?
"We were a little surprised"
Dick Polman, Inquirer National Political Columnist
In the immortal words of Yogi Berra, "it's deja vu all over again."
This morning, as I scanned a New York Times story about President Obama's "new playbook" for the health care debate, I was stopped by this paragraph:
"And Democratic Party officials enlisted in the fight by the White House acknowledged in interviews that the growing intensity of the opposition to the president’s health care plans — within the last week likened on talk radio to something out of Hitler’s Germany, lampooned by protesters at Congressional town-hall-style meetings and vilified in television commercials — had caught them off guard and forced them to begin an August counteroffensive."
Then, a few paragraphs later, a top Democratic communicator weighed in: "To be fair, I think we were probably a little surprised - just a little - at the use of swastikas and the comparisons to Adolf Hitler and the Third Reich that even Rush Limbaugh has fanned the flames on. And we were a little surprised at the mob mentality."
Then, farther down in the piece, an Obama administration deputy added this: "The lesson we’ve learned is you ignore these rumors at your peril, and the right answer is to take them head on in as big a way as possible."
All the italics are mine. All of which prompts me to wonder (for the umpteenth time) whether there is some fundamental flaw in the Democratic gene pool that fuels their perpetually delusional belief that noble intentions are sufficient to prevail in a knife fight.
They were "caught off guard" by the cacophonous conservative assault on health care reform. They were "probably a little surprised." They now insist that they have learned "lessons" about how it's nuts to simply let the nuts peddle their lies.
This is where Yogi's deja vu rule kicks in. Over and over, decade after decade, the Democrats have revealed their naivete.
Back in the 1988 presidential race, it was Mike Dukakis; amidst all the smears being heaped upon him by the Republicans during that long hot summer (polluter! pal of rapist! funny Greek name! crazy wife! flag-hater!), the candidate and his advisers sat back and did nothing, convinced that voters would never swallow such slop. They did, he plummeted in the polls, and he never recovered.
During the 1993-4 health care reform battle, the Clinton White House was outmaneuvered by the Republican right and their corporate allies, who swayed the electorate with all kinds of devious hyperbole. And, more recently, in the 2004 presidential race, John Kerry and his advisers sat back and did nothing for three crucial summer weeks, absolutely convinced that voters would never believe the Swift Boat attacks on his Vietnam record. That strategy worked out pretty well.
And now we have the Obama people, waking up to the idea that maybe it's not politically wise to sit mute and allow themselves to be tarred as fascists who would euthanize granny, ration health care, and slash Medicare benefits. (It's priceless to hear the Republicans portraying themselves as the defenders of Medicare, given the fact that, if they had been in charge back in 1965, they never would have enacted Medicare in the first place. But I digress.)
The Republican right understands the power of the visceral; it knows how to stoke emotions at the expense of civility. This is not exactly a fresh observation, yet it's amazing how flat-footed Democrats seem always to discover it anew. They seem forever convinced that the power of high ideals should be sufficient for victory - that, in the present case, Americans should simply be convinced, on the merits, that health care reform is preferable to the dysfunctional status quo. As Howard Paster, Clinton's health care guy in 1993, told The Times this morning, "The expectation (among the Obama people) was that things have gotten so bad in the last 16 years that there would be a consensus on the need to act this time."
But that's not how the other team plays the game. Indeed, numerous Democratic strategists and commentators have been trying to make this point for a long time. A couple years ago, for instance, radio host and ex-California Democratic chairman Bill Press offered this advise to his brethren: "In politics, if somebody slaps you on the cheek, you punch him in the nose. Then you punch him in the gut. Then you kick him in the groin. Then you crack a chair over his head. Then, just to make sure, you jump up and down on top of him with both feet...The only way to win is to fight back. Hard and tough. If they don't, they don't deserve to win."
Press was characteristically a tad over the top, but his basic point was that Democrats should stop being surprised to learn that politics ain't beanbag. This is not to suggest that Obama should retaliate by retailing lies equal in virulence to those being spewed by his opponents; if he was to conduct himself as his opponents are doing, he would be promptly attacked for failing to change the tone in Washington.
His best option is to do what he probably should have done months ago: find an attractively repeatable health reform pitch that can fit on a bumper sticker, something that can appeal to positive emotions. (Perhaps if Obama had done that during the spring, he could have at least partially preempted the nabobs of negativity.) Indeed, there are reports today that Obama will now pitch his plan as a vehicle for ending unfair insurance practices, for protecting the millions of Americans who have pre-existing health conditions.
Maybe a positive emotional pitch can still work - unless it is too little, too late, and insufficient weaponry for an alley fight.
Comments (145)
Swedes- If you don't understand corporations lobbying their enemies than I can't help you. The plan progressives really want would seriously hinder if not fully eliminate the healthcare companies. Obama and the Dems can't afford the massive loss of jobs and revenue, so... you end up with a watered down plan, but it's a start. Ideally the liberals would turn down the money, but that's Washington. Healthcare companies hedging their bets with the hope of future legislation being less painful is good business, hardly proof that the industry would prefer Obama's plan over keeping things status quo. Nice try though.— pagoda- tom: why do you offer health insurance now? I'm assuming it's because you need to to get the employees you want. Why not just stop offering insurance now? If your employees can get in a government plan regardless of where they work, wouldn't you expect some to leave if you dropped your plan?— still_independent
- tom: anyone, on either side, using Nazi references w/ regard to the healthcare debate is acting reprehensibly. Both sides are doing it, and it's disgusting.— still_independent
- CB: stop w/ the ACORN getting stimulus money - they didn't.— still_independent
Comment removed.- Pagoda- the healthcare industry and big pharma is actually supporting this because their profits will be protected courtesy of the US government. That is why Aetna gave 5 million to Ted Kennedy. That is why the pharmacuetical industry is spending millions in support of bill. The last thing these industries want is free market competition. No one hates capitalism more than big capitalists. This is the ironic and dirty little secret in all of this.
- Pagoda- It is hard to belive for the average American because it makes no sense. People have serious concerns over this healthcare bill and you lable them hateful racists or Nazi's? huh? So much for a different tone? If this is all you got in the playbook to defend this bill then I think you fighting a losing battle.
- I hope the President is happy with the way he is bringing the country together and adding new civility to the discourse in Wash DC! I wonder if he had it to do over again, would he start by doing one priority at a time, instead of this 'do it all in one year' approach he has taken? I guess on the campaign trail when he said he could do more than one thing at a time he underestimated how hard it is to be President and move an agenda:) Everytime someone or something opposes any of his plans they are immediately isolated and demonized by a unprofessional White House press corps (yes, you Robert Gibbs) and a complicit media! It is about time the right organizes (if they are) and gets down in the dirt (as the left has done for years) in a grassroots effort and for all the talk of a new age in Wash DC, the President & his minions are fanning the flames of partisan bickering! You reap what you sow, IMHO:) How can you save money by spending an extra $500 Bil? How can Medicare be stripped of another $500 Bil w/out decrease in services? That little old man that smacked down Benedict Arlen doesn't look like a Nazi or an angry mob member, just a little old man worried about is healthcare & asking questions! What is wrong with that?— NEPhilly
- Why is it hard to believe some of these "protestors" are hateful and racist? The loudest are often the vilest. Sure the majority are there because they fear the future, fears stoked by lies and distortions. The healthcare industry knows their profits have increased over 500% during the last eight years- Certainly they will do anything (including exploitation, fear mongering, and outright lying) to protect those profits. Obama's policy ideas are certainly debatable and healthcare reform deserves detailed scrutiny. This important process will never happen because the Democrats know the window is closing. I just hope Republicans are truly happy with their current healthcare and the current trends of massive price increases and deteriorating coverage. These poor scared protestors are spoon-fed by the millionaires and will be left on the curb if profits are jeopardized. The tactics employed by the Republicans, blue dogs, and the pupeteer lobbyists will prevent any type of reform, let alone Obama's so called “We don’t want this country to turn into Russia.” plan.— pagoda
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- Again: The DEMOCRATS used the term NAZI and HITLER and the swastika against Bush for eight years. Look at the images on Google. Why now should the rest of America forget the dirty politics by the left so we can condem the right?— philly68
- still....Dem Rep Brian Baird (WA) cancelled his townhall event...“What we’re seeing right now is close to Brown Shirt tactics,” Baird said in a phone interview. “I mean that very seriously.” Pelosi said she saw signs with Swastikas; Conyers compared them to the KKK and white supremacists; Tim Bishop said it was similar to what made Tim McVeigh bomb the Murrow building. Any comments about those statements?— tom - wilmington, de
- So far, I have heard the townhall protests being compared to Nazi's carrying Swastika, one Dem said it was the same hyperbole that drove Timothy McVeigh to bomb the federal building in Ok City, and John Conyers said he was not confronted like that since his vote for the civil rights legislation and he had to deal with the KKK and white supremacists. Dems making these types of comparisong to people, mostly elderly, upset with the current legislation. Meanwhile, over at MSNBC, Maddow and Olberman insists all these people are aligned with FreedomWorks. I guess they loved the spontaneity of the Obama townhall yesterday, where an 11 year old girl who had appeared with Obama at a campaign event and was invited to the White House before was invited to ask a question. Yeah, who has the astroturf.— tom - wilmington, de
- Tal...please do not refer to Ruiz as "Choochy". It sounds, well, let's just say it doesn't sound truly journalistic.— tom - wilmington, de
- Obama is just flat out lying...yesterday he said twice that the AARP has endorsed his plan. Immediately after that, the AARP issued a statement that any report they have endorsed any healthcare reform plan is false. Now I know how many of you liberals bashed Bush for his supposed lies...any thoughts on Obama's lying straight to the face of the American people?— tom - wilmington, de
- nice 'astroturf" townhall in New Hampshire yesterday.— tom - wilmington, de
- a post asked if an employer offered health insurance, and the government option stunk, why would anyone go into it. here is why....I am an employer with 10 employees and a payroll of $500K. I offer health insurance at a total costs of $75K per year. I can drop my health insurance and pay a "payroll tax" of up to 8%, which would be $40K. Therefore, I save myself $35K, all my employees are in the government option (they cannot keep their current plan, they may not be able to keep their current doctor, despite what Obama is promising). Now, how does that not make sense from a business perspective.— tom - wilmington, de
- Still Independent-" Observe: Although President Obama and big-government activists demonize health-insurance companies, the companies "are still mostly on board with the president's effort to overhaul the U.S. health-care system," the Wall Street Journal reports; and ... Although the activists criticize Big Pharma, "The drug industry has already contributed millions of dollars to advertising campaigns for the health care overhaul through the advocacy groups like Healthy Economies Now and Families USA. It has spent about $1 million on similar advertisements under its own name," the Times reports."
- swedesboromike: please show me where "Big Pharma and Big Insurance" have actually supported any specific plan. Yes, they have agreed we need some reform. I haven't seend where they endorsed any specific piece of legislation. Don't say "Ted Kennedy, blah blah". Please point me to the commercials they are airing... As far as the nazi thing, I'd disagree with you and say among right wing talking heads, anyone supporting the healthcare bill is a Nazi. Would you like links to Rush, Beck, or Hannity ? I don't normally go on msnbc, but I urge anyone from either side that likes to throw around Nazi allusions to read this piece by Dr. Caplan. http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/32372258/ns/health-health_care/— still_independent
- Most of the posts since 10 pm last night are like a trip to the far side. I would say the general consensus is that anyone who opposes the healthcare bill is a Nazi. The ironic side in all this is that Big Pharma and Big Insurance actually are supporting Obama's plan and will be spending millions in adverstising to support the plan. The reason is that these big healthcare players stand to profit big time in all this. No one hates capitalism more than capitalists. And big Pharma and Big Insurance are more than happy to game the system to their benefit courtesy of the US Government. But I guess it is just easier to read your slurs off the talking point index cards then to really examine this issue or actually read the house version of the bill. And now after having posted this, one of these fine upstanding bloggers from last night's far side will tell me I am engaging in " hate speech "
- A lot of posts here make a really good case for a mental health mandate in medical policies.— JimR
- Militia groups are on the rise.— MsLou
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- How about respecting the troops , the Government runs the DOD, so if your saying our government can't run anything you insult those that gave their lives so we can live our daily lives, disrespect the troops somewhere else.....— hejira33312
- When has the government ever managed money (or ANYTHING for that matter) well? Why on earth would we want them in charge of healthcare? The republicans are right to oppose this as hard as they can, because we'll be paying the bill for this nonsense in perpetuity.— Zaknafein
- Funny INKY owes Philadelphia's what does this Healthcare program provide, it owes us what is the cost, and solid reporting of how will it be implemented. But INKY just like congress hasn't read or spent the time to report such. Just the spin.— Fisher
these are the same losers that showed up at McCain rallies calling Pres. Obama a terrorist. Maybe these folks will finally learn that they are being used as puppets by the mega-rich folks that are currently getting rich off of the current system - while millions go without any type of care. Read the bill - everyone still gets to keep their own coverage - read!!!- Since Obama isnt a US citizen with no birth certificate, will he be eligible for Post Office healthcare Communist style?— Dr. Michael
- oh yeah mr Smith, so your saying that the prayers we send up will suddenly wear out Jesus to the point he gets sick of us, people say turn to god for everything.... did someone rewrite the Bible. God doesnt like hypocrites.....— hejira33312
- so Mr Smith your saying Jesus would be a healthcare insurance executive? Or maybe a risk analyst for the insurance company?— hejira33312
- The Christian Bible's Second Epistle to the Corinthians is but one place where God is spoken of as the "Father of compassion" and the "God of all comfort" (1.3). The life of Jesus embodies for Christians the very essence of compassion. Christ's example challenges Christians to forsake their own desires and to act compassionately towards others, particularly those in need or distress.[15] Jesus assures his listeners in the Sermon on the Mount that, "Blessed are the merciful, for they shall obtain mercy." In the Parable of the Good Samaritan he holds up to his followers the ideal of compassionate conduct. The heritage within Western Christendom of compassion as the principle of charity has resulted in recent times in the growth of remarkable charitable phenomena such as Oxfam, Médecins sans Frontières and Live Aid with global reach and budgets of millions of dollars. True Christian compassion, say the Gospels, should extend to all, even to the extent of loving one's enemies. Our Lady of Compassion is a feast day celebrated by Roman Catholics to honor the Theotokosas Co-Redemptrix.— hejira33312
- you think highly of your hate speech swedes, Jesus would be horrified , and btw, most people can not imagine why you stay around , you wont convert anyone here who had to live with Bush the Buffoon...— hejira33312
Hejira- Jesus wouldn't insure anyone. Jesus would be too busy healing everyone who decided they didn't need insurance because there was this guy named Jesus who could take care of all that healthcare stuff. Then, when everyone in the world had their hand out, waiting for Jesus to solve their problems, and didn't take responsibility for themselves, Jesus would realize that mankind needs self reliance more than it needs any institution promising/threatening to control every aspect of their existence.— Mr. Smith- hejiera33312-I did answer your question. I feel like I am arguing with a child. You are regurgitating left wing index card taking points. As for your study I would say it is heavily tainted because it was conducted by the Urban Institute. A far left wing organization who's major funder is leftists George Soros. Like I said , go back to your dorm and try again tommorow. You are out of your league on this blog.
- never answered the question and heres your link ,sorry to back you in a corner with the jesus thing, just always find it odd that conservatives pick and choose the Bible they want to believe when its easy.....http://www.commonwealthfund.org/Content/Newsletters/Washington-Health-Policy-in-Review/2008/Jan/Washington-Health-Policy-Week-in-Review---January-14--2008/Thousands-of-U-S--Deaths-Attributed-to-Lack-of-Health-Insurance.aspx— hejira33312
- hejiera33312- Are you really this intelectually shallow? Would Jesus insure? Are you serious? Would Jesus accept a 5 million dollar donation from Aetna like Ted Kennedy did? would Jesus cave to the pressure of lobbying groups that want their product as part of an insurance mandate? Would Jesus not allow insurance to be sold accross state lines? And furthermore your link only goes to the Institute of Medicine home page. I am not doing your phony research for you. My suggestion to you is that you go back to whatever liberal institution of indoctrination you are studying at and get some more index card talking points.
- http://www.iom.edu/CMS/AboutIOM.aspx from one of their studies— hejira33312
- hejiera33312- Please site the study that indicates 27,000 people died since 2006 because the had not health insurance
- http://managedhealthcareexecutive.modernmedicine.com/mhe/Special+Report/New-Day-Managed-care-grabs-new-opportunities-under/ArticleStandard/Article/detail/573824?searchString=obama so back before Obama was in office the story was written in the above article in a magazine written for managed care executives, come on pubs read it , it opened my eyes a bit for both sides of the arguemnent...seriously read it....dated Jan 1 09— hejira33312
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- Another problem with citing the 46-million figure is that many of those who are identified as uninsured are actually eligible for existing government programs but simply never bothered to enroll. In 2003, a BlueCross BlueShield Association study estimated that about 14 million of the uninsured were eligible for Medicaid and SCHIP. These people would be signed up for government insurance if they ever made it to the emergency room.
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- jwad and his personal attacks, way to go with standing up for your views....— hejira33312
- In response to rising health care costs, our society has moved from a health care insurance model where there was usually a choice of providers (often referred to as fee-for-service plans) to extensive use of health care maintenance plans and other types of plans that put limitations on the choice of provider. hey don't limit my choices, oh wait they already are...— hejira33312
- "Children in the U.S. receive only 46 percent of the care that they should be getting, so they receive worse care than adults in this country, who get 55 percent of needed care," said study author Dr. Rita Mangione-Smith, a researcher at Seattle Children's Hospital Research Institute and an associate professor of pediatrics at the University of Washington School of Medicine in Seattle. So after conception and birth you stop caring about the babies is that correct?— hejira33312
- As many as 27,000 Americans may have died in 2006 because they did not have health insurance, a new study estimates.— hejira33312
- Many of the nurses of the California Nurses Association are Christian with very deep convictions about what that means in today’s inadequate healthcare system. To be a Christian – a follower of Jesus Christ – is to love one’s neighbor as oneself and to care deeply about whether all of God’s children have access to quality, meaningful healthcare. Who Would Jesus Deny healthcare to?— hejira33312
- A significant percentage of those listing medical debt as the reason for their bankruptcy are 65 and older. Other groups disproportionately bankrupted by medical debt include single women raising children on low wages or who have been abandoned by their husbands who refuse to pay child support.— hejira33312
- About 1.5 million families lose their homes to foreclosure every year due to unaffordable medical costs. Robertson, C.T., et al. “Get Sick, Get Out: The Medical Causes of Home Mortgage Foreclosures,” Health Matrix, 2008— hejira33312
- The good news is that Obama's socialized medicine will pay for treatment of the pre-existing condition of Bush Derangement Syndrome. The epidemic BDS does not appear to be receding in some communities.— Mr. Smith
- What are talking about Dicky. They have been knife fighting for the past 9 years. First it was against Bush and now it is against the American people. They, and you, are like the Gestapo if you disagree with them. A health insurance overhall by the Federal Government is not what people want. That is the whole thing in a nutshell. Perhaps you and the other hardcore socialist Democrats think it is but it isn't. Nobody had to work too hard to motivate these protests. Who are they going to knife fight against the mob of Americans that are unahappy. By the way, see you later Arlen.— Mickey0123
- While demonizing Repubs and smearing them with slurs provides red meat to pacify the angry left, the simple bottom line is that it is a smokescreen to cover up Obama's failed leadership on the issue. Obama has failed so far in communicating real details of his plan. All he says are vague things that make no sense on their face. Obama needs to step up with real details, not cheerleading.— CD75
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- PLEASE! First of all, I'm not familiar with the swastikas everyone has been complaining about.... but do you have any idea how many times Bush (43) was compared to Hitler? The severity of the hatred of Bush from the left DOESN'T EVEN COME CLOSE to the "opposition" that some have shown so far. I thought "dissent was patriotic" and we were suppossed to "Question Authority". What a bunch of whiny hypocrites!— Bud Fox
- hejiera33312- focus please. Obama is president
- comrade xi has our number , what do we do now???? Oh well lets put Bush in as Emperor.....— hejira33312
- Tango- So you've got a big " butwhatabout " for us as an explanation for all the tap dancing going on by the Democrats? Thank you for that. Wake me when Obama is actually going to take responsibility as President of the United States.
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- Polman is wrong! D's know how to get down and dirty. Just ask that guy from Michigan who took his wheel chair bound son to Dingle's town hall. When he got home he had 2 thugs on his front lawn. He had to call the cops.— gerryb
- Dick- Although it may never have occurred to you, maybe the Obama way is wrong and based on experience in other countries and with the people that would become government claims administrators,people don't want it. After 2 hours today trying to straighten out an EZ Pass issue in NJ, which is still not resolved,I think-what if it was cancer instead.Many of us have had enough with government tenured apparatchniks and can't imagine them dealing with this type when life or death situations are present.How about malpractice reform to stop defensive excessive test medicine? How about taking the non-citizens out of the equation,especially at hospital ER's? Have you spent a weekend day at an ER lately?There are other ways.Stop just reciting the Obama talking points. Maybe you could interview or meet with Paul Ryan and listen to some of his ideas. There are two sides,especially when you leave your group of Journos, academics and lawyers.— Tired of Journos
- So Obama is for a universal plan and then he says he is not. Which is it? Senators are telling us what is in the bill but then claiming they don't read the bill! Which is it folks. How can you accuse one side of telling lies about what is in a bill then stand in a town hall meeting and tell everyone there is not enough time to read the bill. Which is it? Awful lot of tap dancing going on right now from the Democrats.
bumper sticker- NO WE WON'T!— georgel- "(It's priceless to hear the Republicans portraying themselves as the defenders of Medicare, given the fact that, if they had been in charge back in 1965, they never would have enacted Medicare in the first place. But I digress.)" More priceless than Obama arguing that Obamacare will SAVE us money just as Medicare is in the process of bankrupting us? Also, acting like Rahm Emmanuel is some babe in the woods is beyond ludicrous.— Scholes
- And Here is Obama's quote on the campaign trail as to wether he is for a single payer system. We will go thru this drill as many times as necessary until a liberal can explain which Obama we are to believe..................." I see no reason why the United States of America, the wealthiest country in the history of the world, spending 14 percent of its gross national product on health care, cannot provide basic health insurance to everybody. And that's what Jim is talking about when he says everybody in, nobody out. A single-payer health care plan, a universal health care plan. That's what I’d like to see. But as all of you know, we may not get there immediately. Because first we've got to take back the White House, we've got to take back the Senate, and we've got to take back the House."
- Here is Obama's quote from today on wether he is for a single payer system " I have not said that I was a single-payer supporter because, frankly, we historically have had a employer-based system in this country with private insurers, and for us to transition to a system like that I believe would be too disruptive. So what would end up happening would be, a lot of people who currently have employer-based health care would suddenly find themselves dropped, and they would have to go into an entirely new system that had not been fully set up yet. And I would be concerned about the potential destructiveness of that kind of transition. All right? So I'm not promoting a single-payer plan."
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- tal, looking forward to it and I will check out the blog:)— NEPhilly
Republican health care = no affordable of universal coverage (unless you're a member of Congress. If you're sick, die. Now that's a DEATH plan!- XI: The closest a Conse 'Pub has ever come to agreeing with me on anything is that Obama is an American, but that that was ONLY his opinion. Sorry, I exaggerated when I said 100%, it must be 99.7%.— Talvenada
- PHIL: BTW, I'm a Mod Dem.— Talvenada
- PHIL: Thnx, but I'm not really back. I write for a national sports blog, which doesn't leave much time left over, but BB season will be over in 3 mos. I'll be back then with plenty of time to comment. I write about The Phillies only @ http://isportsweb.com/— Talvenada
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- “trust me on this....Govmt option is code word for single payer plan in 20 yrs.”….No need to take your word for it. Just listen to Obama: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p-bY92mcOdk&feature=related— Chris J.
- Yep, deja vu......... "It was the eve of the 1954 congressional election season. On the campaign trail for his party's congressional candidates, Nixon did some wild shooting of his own. McCarthy originally claimed dozens of subversives had infiltrated the Truman administration. Nixon claimed the new Republican administration had rousted 'thousands.' (Eisenhower's civil service administrator later admitted they hadn't found a single one.) Nixon also claimed that the new White House occupants had 'found in the files a blueprint for socializing America.' Reporters asked him for a copy. Nixon claimed he had been speaking metaphorically. Though he also claimed possession of 'a secret of the Communist Party' proving 'it is determined to conduct its program within the Democratic Party.' He also made no mistake about whom the Communists' vector would be. Adlai Stevenson was also chasing around the country campaigning for Democratic congressional victories, in pursuit of which Nixon accused him of 'attack[ing] with violent fury the economic system of the United States.'"— the stupid does burn
- Grill: did you read any of the bill? It sets up health exchanges that limit "excessive premiums", guarantee coverage, and prohibits denial based upon pre-existing conditions (sound familiar?) It taxes employer-offered health benefits (sound familiar?) Cutting Medicaire costs (sound familiar?) ...— still_independent
- Grill: no, the summary is 16 pages. The Senate version of the bill (S. 1099) is 248 pages.— still_independent
- Pelosi did Obaman in more than a million Dick Armeys... Once she and then Boxer OFFENDED those that dare question a 1200 page bill and likened them to nazis and mobs it was all over. This bill is toast. If anyone wants reform they would support the Coburn-Ryan plan. I believe the bill is 17 pages. Much more reform and MUCH LESS government. More government workers is not reform, it is simply more union dues and PAC dues for the AFL-CIO.— Grill
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- I watched two townhall meetings today. The first with Specter this morning and the second just now with Obama. I have to admire Specter for his meeting was organized, no nazi swastikas or un-Americans in attendence, no screaming or yelling. He got down with the people and made the attempt to answer the questions, even allowing an individual to vent his anger face-to-face. His answers were terse and not condesending, but body language indicted otherwise. Nothing staged here. Then I watched the AP video of Obama's townhall meeting in New Hampshire. Neatly dressed, racially mixed, orderly individuals crammed onto bleachers, sitting on a stage in front of the American flag applauding Obama's every pause. I watched maybe 10 minutes or two questions. Turned-off and tuned-out half way thru the answer for the second question. Talk about run on. He still did not say what his plan was about, only that he wants to generate more GP's, nurses and instructors. Then he went on to justify his government disinformation website.— junethe4th
- Xi: "employers want out..it's a pain in the arse and instead of them paying for it let half of the taxpayers pay for it...it's not complicated.". No, it's not. If they want out now, they can get out now. Again, they don't have to offer health coverage now. What don't you understand. The only way they won't be able to "compete" w/ a government plan is if the gov't plan is cheaper AND offers the same services and coverage. If that's the case, then why wouldn't we want the government plan?— still_independent
We should also be rating our Television News Outlets like we rate our Television Shows - You know the ratings that come on for say "Rescue Me". We should have a Fiction/Not True Disclaimer before each broadcast that is known to spread falsehoods for ratings. "The following program is rated F-6. The content of the preceding broadcast has been known to be for purely entertainment value and although dressed up to look like a news show has a rating of 33% when it comes to accuracy and facts - Rating F-6." The Fiction Rating scale F1 through F-10. Cronkite would get an F-10 and Beck getting F-0.- Comment removed.
- Ender - 12:31 - exactly - the Repubs have a word for it when they are doing it - not just "Deficit Spending" which Ronnie Regan hailed - but "Capital Investment" when they build bridges to nowhere - it's hypocrisy - the Republicans spent their brains out when they were in power and now out of power they are fiscal hawks again - it would be laughable if it wasn't such a shame and immature.
- I second Vandy's recommendation, but I would also suggest that we create a second tier of medical treatment for the poor. Give them long wait times, 1980's era medicine and older diagnostic and treatment equipment. Let them get treated by Democrat volunteer doctors, or medical students. Essentially, they get 90% of the healthcare for 50% of the cost. Make it sufficiently crappy that employers won't bail on their existing benefits. Is such a two-tier system objectionable to anyone? Is it immoral to give the poor "good but not great" health treatment?— Mr. Smith
- The Status quo are not going to give up without a fight - who hasn't been saying this for years over energy and health care. The town hall fiasco is the part of the fight that we get to see. The other part is behind the scenes the purse strings and re-election funds. The Democratic and Independent minded Republicans and independents are going to weigh self interest vs. Country First. We know what the majority of them will do. However if the new election bill is passed - back to public financing and corporate money is taken out of the game - it could be a new day. I'm sure that the majority of Americans see the rancor at the Town Halls for what it is but WE don't matter when it comes to financing. The big donors run the show. District by district the politicians weigh the polls versus the money train and then they vote - to stay in office. The politicians have to be less vulnerable to the sway of corporate financing - so they can serve their constituents in their own local. There is only one way to do that - pass the Fair Election Law - it's on the floor now. If Congress does that - it will put industry on notice and they'll have to dream up other ways to keep stealing our tax dollars and gaming the system to pad their ENORMOUS incomes. Fair and equitable societies do better across the board, wealth wise, health wise, education wise, and productivity wise. When their is too much of a divergence between the top 1% and the middle class those Countries are just horrible to live in and the quality of life for all plummets. Greed is not good and serves no ones best interest. In a lot of ways this Country is showing its age - not old and wise, but infantile and spoiled.
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- tal, where the heck have you been? From this conse'pub to a lib'dem, welcome back:)— NEPhilly
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- Xi is right. Among Conse 'Pubs 100% are strongly opposed to all ideas but their own!— Talvenada
- The flawed premise in this pitiful myopic excuse for a column is that the 'power of high ideals' is at stake. Yes, BHO and his sock puppets in the corporate media are surprised alright. Surprised that so many people from across the political spectrum have seen through the Trojan horse disguised as 'health care reform' that they're trying to ram through without any meaningful debate.— JC Denton
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- still, I said this underneath "That $210 bil per year would be much, much less if a doctor's liability was capped and his/hers malpractice insurance would be less as well." People & employers will choose the govt. option because it is cheaper, not better! It will cheaper only through govt. subsidies (just like loans at Fannie were more favorable because of govt. subsidies) and companies and poor people will choose it just for that reason alone! In the end, the govt. option will squeeze out any other insurance option for the poor and middle class by its size alone and private insurance will only be for the rich! Liberals in the house, namely one Barney Frank, have already said a single payer system is the final goal! At least he is being honest about what he wants and the President looks weak in this whole debate for not saying what he wants!— NEPhilly
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- "For all the angry talk of socialism, what seems to irk many older voters is that the Obama plan implies less socialism for them. The question for conservatives: If President Obama is willing to volunteer to put his hand into this beehive… why not let him? Don’t we also want a less expensive Medicare program? Indeed, without Medicare savings, the national tax burden must inevitably rise by at least four or five points of GDP as the baby boomers retire. History is full of ironies, and it may be that the success of the Medicare portion of Obama’s health plan is the essential precondition for the next Republican tax cut." - David Frum (rabid liberal)— the stupid does burn
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- Obama just lied...saying he has never been in favor of a single payer system...forgetting I guess what he said before. Unbelievable...— tom - wilmington, de
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- Xi: what forces the employers to offer coverage right now? NOTHING ! It's a benefit (like salary, 401k, etc.) used to entice employees to work there. Now if the free market reigns supreme, and if the gov't plan s*cks like you say it will, why would anyone choose it? And if employers don't need to offer better health coverage to keep employees, why are they doing it now? This is the most illogical (and that's saying something) argument people keep putting out in this whole debate.— still_independent
- Obama just said he is going to pay for healthcare by limiting the itemized deductions on those making more than $250K per year. Is that part of the House bill? Is it in the Senate version? Where is that in one of the bills? I guess then there will be no payroll tax penalty or income surtax (on adjusted gross income) as currently contained in the House version of the bill. Does he even know what he is talking about or what is in the House bill?— tom - wilmington, de
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- NEPhilly: because you've decided that all of the $210B is due to fear of lawsuits.— still_independent
- "some fundamental flaw in the Democratic gene pool that fuels their perpetually delusional belief that noble intentions are sufficient to prevail in a knife fight." Noble intentions? Putting as many people on the dole as possible in order to lock up an electorate is hardly noble. I go back to the Sotomayor hearings, when you posted ad nauseum about the possibility of a GOP filibuster, which of course never happened, knowing that the cowardly, nasty filibuster for SCOTUS nominees is the domain of the Democrats. What was the attack line on Thomas from the left? "We're going to Bork him!" Here is an idea for healthcare reform: (1) tort reform to bring down the astronomical cost of malpractice insurance (won't happen with Democrats in office, as they are in bed with the "noble" trial lawyers), (2) eliminate interstate boundaries, and (3) eliminate/reduce minimum coverage mandates that make it prohibitively expensive for many people to purchase individual plans.— Vandy
- master....I agree, everyone in this country should have access to affordable health care. And, in keeping with the freedoms on which this country was founded, I believe it should be up to each person on an individual basis to decide if they want to pay for that healthcare or go without. However, what we have is the government dictating that a person MUST purchase health insurance or else be fined. Now, how is that in keeping with the ideal on which this country was founded....individual freedom without dictates from the government. True, we HAVE to buy auto insurance IF we buy a car. Don't want to buy auto insurance...don't buy a car. And auto insurance is more for the other guy/lender than for the purchaser. However, forcing a person to buy health insurance IMHO is unconstitutional.— tom - wilmington, de
- Obama just said, at his townhall in New Hampshire, that HIS health care plan will give people access to the type of care just like Congress has, with an exchange where all types of plans and carriers compete ALONG WITH a government plan (whose premiums are estimated to be 25% less than private insurance, according to CBO estimates). Now, which plan has the exchange where we can get the same plan as members of Congress? Is that the House or Senate version? As for Polman, I guess he believes $500 Billion in medicare cuts will have no impact on services. I recall in the 1990's when Republicans tried to cut the growth of Medicare and Democrats ran their 'Mediscare" commercials. I guess Polman was on board with the Republicans and believed no cuts in service would take place at that time too. I would just love to see how utilization will increase and costs will be cut without rationing care.— tom - wilmington, de
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Once again the best way to fix healthcare is this , pass federal laws telling health insurance companies what they can charge , what co pay to set , order that nobody can be dropped and nobody can ever be refused . Pass laws no health company can tell a doctor what treatment they can use . Then pass laws every American and legal migrant must have health cover , and pass laws no illegal can have health care here they can go home instead . Also pass a federal law capping liability claims and pass another law any lawyer bringing more than three frivoulous claims in a twelve month period be banned from practise , that will reduce costs for a start . As congress is full of lawyers you this will never happen but it would work if they had the countries best interests at heart .— PAEnglish- Comment removed.
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- xi, I say the congress and their family's should have to go into whatever system they come up with:) Oh, wait, they would probably bankrupt us faster if that was the case:) This spendthrift congress also added several extra jets worth $300 Mil extra into the defense budget (i guess Nancy doesn't like her current plane) that the DOD din't want, just to have them stationed at Andrews waiting to be used! That is the way Wash, DC works when you leave members of any party there to long! They feel entitled to our money. Give them less power, not more! Term limits for them all would make me feel a little better at least:)— NEPhilly
- Déjà vu? Like the laughable “Democrats are just too darn nice” talking point? (Or it’s cousin, Democrat positions are just too nuanced to gain popular support.) If it didn’t catch on BEFORE the eight years of liberal BUSH HITLER! mania, why does the Left think people will buy it now? Especially after the Right said the same thing about John McCain as he went down to defeat. Remember “Medi-scare” Dick? Remember when Newt Gingrich was going to let seniors “wither and die” Dick? Hello? Dick? Come on. Ya think that the fact that 90 percent of American voters have health insurance and 70 percent are happy with it MAY have something to do with the incredulous reaction Americans have to what they are witnessing? It’s silly, but understandable, when Democrat operatives trot out this excuse. When a journalist tires it, it’s pretty stunning.— Chris J.
- What Dick Polman forgot to mention is that Democrats refered to President Bush as a Nazi on a regular basis. just Google the refences of Bush to Hitler. Both parties are venonmous, but each only sees such abuse in the other party.— philly68
- still, the article said this; ***Doctors ordering tests or procedures not based on need but concern over liability or increasing their income is the biggest waste of health care dollars, costing the system at least $210 billion a year, according to the report. The problem is called "defensive medicine." "Sometimes the motivation is to avoid malpractice suits, or to make more money because they are compensated more for doing more," said Dr. Arthur Garson, provost of the University of Virginia and former dean of its medical school.*** That $210 bil per year would be much, much less if a doctor's liability was capped and his/hers malpractice insurance would be less as well. What did I miss?— NEPhilly
- "Cited by the Columbia Journalism Review as one of the nation's top political reporters, and lauded by the ABC News political website as "one of the finest political journalists of his generation..." Translation: Dick Polman is a reliable spinner for the Democratic Party, the Obama-messiah and the leftist agenda.— George Tomezsko
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- MasterDreamz-I am saying that I don't want government to have that much control. It is a dangerous path. And furthermore I don't know why all these dispersions are being cast back and forth over this bill. The politicians openly admit that have not read the bill. It is a boring read but this is the job they were elected to do. How can a politician say the opposition is lying about what is in the bill when they stand at a Town Hall meeting and admit they didn't read the bill( i.e. Arlen Spector ) ??
- NEPhilly: where do you get "I see no national tort reform in the bill mentioned, the largest cost driver in healthcare"? I hope it's not from the article I linked you to, because that's NOT what it said !!— still_independent
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- tom: are you going to let him talk smack about IBD? The ones (the only ones) that realized that private health insurance will be banned? Not only did IBD get the specific example wrong (Mr. Hawkins always did and still does live in England), they don't even understand how England rations care (they do NOT evaluate individuals and decide if they get care).... http://www.ibdeditorials.com/IBDArticles.aspx?id=333933006516877— still_independent
- So smike, you would rather have a person who only cares about the healthcare company's bottom line making that decision? Granted, it is trading one evil for another; but, I think the government worker is the lesser of those evils.— Master Dreamz
- The house version of the health care bill is available on line. Anyone can do a google search. Having read the bill I would say it is certainly open to interpretation. I am very leary about giving government that much control over my life. What is amazing is that the bill is over 1000 pages and I am astonished by it's ambiguity
- ender, to spend a $1 Tril over 10 years in orer to save money on health care is liberal malarky at its best and the country can see through it now! He should have taken that nonstimulus money (which he still can if he choses:) worth $787 Bil and paid for healthcare if he wanted it so bad! I see no national tort reform in the bill mentioned, the largest cost driver in healthcare, why? Becuase the dems are in the trial lawyers back pocket, that is why! More regulation via new laws for the health insurance industry to hold back costs, I say yes! Medicare has the same cost problems as private insurance company's do, so holding it up as a model of govt. efficiency in healthcare is disingenuous! Also, taking $500 bil from Medicare to spend on this thing is just an govt. accounting trick or is there really $500 Bil worth of savings to be had from Medicare? If the govt. forgave student loans for doctors that go into general practice for 5 or 10 years, they could be paid less and they could charge less as well (from the French system)! There is middle ground on the healthcare issue to be sure, but a big govt. liberal takeover of 16-17% of the US economy in the name of holding back costs is laughable at best and a mistake of grand proportions at worst, IMHO!— NEPhilly
- Merit? Hmmm do I want a government bureaucrat making my health decisions based solely on merit? Or, a clerk looking at the bottom line profit of their company making that same decision? I will take the lesser of two evils -- the government. And, justwondering, how would McCain's plan help those that cannot afford insurance at all. Dont forget the reason for all this discussion is that everyone should have healthcare available to them. We have moved beyond healthcare as a priviledge and are making it a right. No one in this great country should be without basic healthcare. Can we all agree on that?— Master Dreamz
- Fisher: from last blog - I can't prove that something that's untrue is untrue. Perhaps the person asserting something as true should prove it? That aside, stepping through what I think you're referring to: "Page 427 Lines 15-24 Government mandates program that orders end-of-life treatment" and "Page 429 Lines 10-12, 13-25 Advanced care planning consult will be used to dictate treatment as patients’ health deteriorates. This can include an order for end-of-life plans. " No they don't. All the bill mandates is that if a senior wishes to volunteer for counseling (to set up living wills, health directives, et.), it will be paid for once every five years... "29 lines 4-16 Admits your health care will be rationed". Umm, that's limiting out of pocket expecses, not healthcare. In fact, the same section reads "does not impose any annual or lifetime limit on the coverage of covered health care items and services" .... "Page 30 A government economy will decide what treatments and benefits you get" - page 30 sets up the Health Benefits Advisory Committee, which determines coverage and benefits - as every insurance company and state does. ... Need I go on?— still_independent
- And let's not forget that the current bills don't address a major health care cost driver: malpractice suits. I think you will see more Republicans get on board if ALL opportunities for cost reduction and reform were actually put on the table. Or are the trial lawyers too much of an entrenched special interest? Or is Obama too proud to admit that the McCain plan (tax credits to buy your own insurance) might have some merit? Let's not have another Stimulus fiasco, where nobody reads/debates/understands the bill before voting on it.— justwondering
- “People such as scientist Stephen Hawking wouldn’t have a chance in the U.K., where the National Health Service would say the life of this brilliant man, because of his physical handicaps, is essentially worthless.” —Investor's Business Daily (aka, wing-nut rag posing as business journal)............. hmmmmmmmm, Stephen Hawking is British.— the stupid does burn
- Of course everyone should be worried about the national deficit. But also realize that sometimes you have to spend money upfront to save over the long term. Anyone who works in business knows this to be true. Health care costs are a long-term threat to are national budget. What do the Republicans suggest we do???— Ender
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- The role models the republicans have that attend these meetings are all self absorbed loud mouths that do not have conversations with their opponets on issues, they have screaming matches, so that is their best example to follow. Everyone has a right to speak out but in a constructive and mature matter. The lies they are spreading are unbelievable but easy to disprove .— hejira33312
- XI - From the same article "Long-term deficit predictions have proven notoriously fickle _ George W. Bush inherited flawed projections of a 10-year, $5.6 trillion surplus and instead produced record deficits _ and if the economy outperforms CBO's expectations, the deficits could prove significantly smaller."— Ender
The tables are turned, Conservatives are the new radicals, and the Liberals are the establishment. HELL NO, WE WON'T GO!!!!!— jmc- Comment removed.
- Well according to Republicans, ACORN should be saving the day right about now. You know ACORN or maybe MOVE-ON, those groups so evil and powerful that their skills will be needed to counter a Facebook entry from a failed Alaskan Governor...— pagoda
- "I have no idea. I understand -- and you have to check this out -- I just had a phone call where someone said Sarah Palin's web site had talked about the House bill having death panels on it where people would be euthanized. How someone could take an end of life directive or a living will as that IS NUTS. You're putting the authority in the individual rather than the government. I don't know how that got so mixed up. "It empowers you to be able to make decisions at a difficult time rather than having the government making them for you.... And it's a voluntary deal." - Sen. Johnny Isakson (R) of Georgia (ranked the seventh most conservative senator by National Journal)— the stupid does burn
- Not sure why liberals are pooh-poohing any of the protest on this issue. Wehn you underestimate the opposition, you do so at your own peril. It seems some on the right have used this:. Power is not only what you have but what the enemy thinks you have. 2. Never go outside the experience of your people. 3. Whenever possible go outside the experience of the enemy. 4. Make the enemy live up to their own book of rules. 5. Ridicule is mans most potent weapon. 6. A good tactic is one that your people enjoy. 7. A tactic that drags on too long becomes a drag. 8. Keep the pressure on with different tactics and actions, and utilize all events of the period for your purpose. 9. The threat is usually more terrifying than the thing itself. 10. The major premise of tactics is the development of operations that will maintain a constant pressure upon the opposition. 11. If you push a negative hard and deep enough, it will break through into its counterside. 12. The price of a successful attack is a constructive alternative. 13. Pick the target, freeze it, personalize it and polarize it. And they have used it to their benefit.— Dopespotter
- no good deed or thought goes unpunished in the land of the spree home of the knave— snarque
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- From that perpetually liberal Washington Post: "The recent attacks by Republican leaders and their ideological fellow-travelers on the effort to reform the health-care system have been so misleading, so disingenuous, that they could only spring from a cynical effort to gain partisan political advantage. By poisoning the political well, they've given up any pretense of being the loyal opposition. They've become political terrorists, willing to say or do anything to prevent the country from reaching a consensus on one of its most serious domestic problems."— the stupid does burn
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- Dems seem to be afraid to roll in the sewer for fear of getting [spit] on them. Repubs have no problem at all getting down and dirty. Hey, it worked on me! I bought some of those horrible negative tactics in spite of my alleged fealty to rational discussions, fact-checking and higher moral ground. I'm still mad at myself for getting swiftboated into voting for "W" in 2004 out of fear. It's part of why I lean against R's. They cheat, distort and play on fears and then say it's part of the game. Might as well root for the NE Patriots or BoSox. (The real trouble is that Dems cheat, distort and play on fears, too.)— Phrossty
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Cited by the Columbia Journalism Review as one of the nation's top political reporters, and lauded by the ABC News political website as "one of the finest political journalists of his generation," Dick Polman is a national political columnist at the Philadelphia Inquirer. He is on the full-time faculty at the University of Pennsylvania, as "writer in residence." Dick has been a frequent guest on C-Span, MSNBC, CNN, NPR and the BBC. He covered the 1992, 1996, 2000, and 2004 presidential campaigns.
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