Web Search powered by YAHOO! SEARCH
share
email
font size
options
 
Monday, August 18, 2008

 

Any Obama fan who believes that the presumptive Democratic nominee is well positioned to woo anti-abortion voters - indeed, any Obama fan who is giddily anticipating an easy November victory - would be well advised to check the transcript, or view the video, of the faith forum hosted on Saturday night by pastor/author Rick Warren.

As I outlined here last Thursday, Barack Obama is trying to give equal time in the party platform to anti-abortion voters, mostly by signaling that he supports expanded alternatives to the procedure, with the aim of reducing over time the total number of  abortions. The potential problem, however, is that few voters pay attention to party platforms. What the candidates say on TV - and how they say it - is probably more persuasive. Which brings us to the nationally-broadcast forum at the evangelical Saddleback megachurch.

Warren brought up the abortion issue, and then asked Obama, "At what point does a baby get human rights, in your view?" Obama then replied, "Well, I think that whether you are looking at it from a theological perspective or a scientific perspective, answering that question with specificity, you know, is above my pay grade. But let me just speak more generally about the issue..."

One hour later, with John McCain in the chair, Warren asked virtually the same question: "At what point is a baby entitled to human rights?"

McCain did not hesitate. He replied: "At the moment of conception."

Which response is likely to resonate with the vast majority of anti-abortion voters - the unequivocal declarative sentence....or the evasive rumination that (to many people) probably comes off as stereotypical Democratic intellectual dithering?

By the way, the abortion portion of the evening actually got worse for Obama after his "pay grade" evasion. He quickly tried this segue: "The goal right now should be - and this is where I think we can find common ground...is how do we reduce the number of abortions, because the fact is that although we've had a president who is opposed to abortions over the last eight years, abortions have not gone down." Warren heard him out, and then asked him the perfect follow-up question: "Have you ever voted to limit or reduce abortions?"

Obama's response: "I am in favor, for example, of limits on late-term abortions if there is an exception for the mother's health. Now, from the perspective of those who, you know, are pro-life, I think they would consider that inadequate. And I respect their views. I mean, one of the things that I've always said is that on this particular issue..."

And off he went on another extended ramble, which failed to mask the fact that he never answered the question, never cited any past votes to reduce abortions. And along the way, he also made a factual error. Warren didn't call him on it (luckily for Obama), but I will. Whereas Obama claimed that, during President Bush's tenure, "abortions have not gone down," the data shows otherwise. According to the nonpartisan Guttmacher Institute, the most respected keeper of such stats, there were eight percent fewer abortions in 2005 (the latest year available) than in 2000. And during that initial phase of the Bush era (2001 through 2005), the total number of abortions declined each year.

All told, I doubt that anti-abortion voters were drawn to Obama's cerebral ruminations. It's certainly true that McCain is hardly the anti-abortion diehard that he purported to be on Saturday night - back in 1999, he stated that “in the short term, or even the long term, I  would not support repeal of Roe v. Wade," and he has never supported a federal constitutional amendment banning all abortions - but he did not ruminate on any of that (nor did Warren ask him, either). All the viewers saw was how he answered on camera: short, direct, declarative. Hence, easy to remember.

The same stylistic gap - cerebral versus visceral - was evident at several other points in the forum, again to Obama's potential disadvantage. Such as the exchanges about the nature of evil.

Warren asked Obama: "Does evil exist, and if it does, do we ignore it, do we negotiate with it, do we contain it, or do we defeat it?"

Obama's response: "Evil does exist. I mean, we see evil all the time. We see evil in Darfur. We see evil in parents have viciously abused their children and I think it has to be confronted. It has to be confronted squarely and one of the things that I strongly believe is that, you know, we are not going to, as individuals, be able to erase evil from the world...Now, the one thing that I think is very important for us is to have humility in how we approach the issue of confronting evil, but, you know, a lot of evil has been perpetrated based on the claim that we were trying to confront evil...And I think one thing that's very important is having some humility in recognizing that, you know, just because we think our intentions are good doesn't always mean that we're going to be doing good..."

One hour later, Warren asked McCain the same question about evil and what we should do about it. McCain's response began this way:

"Defeat it."

Then he segued right into his comfort zone, and stayed there: "My friends, we are facing the transcendent challenge of the 21st century, radical Islamic extremists...If that (suicide bombing) isn't evil, you have to tell me what is, and we're going to defeat this evil...and we face this threat throughout the world. It's not just in Iraq. It's not just in Afghanistan. Our intelligence people tell us that al Qaeda continues to try to establish cells here in the United States of America...We must face this challenge and we must totally defeat it..."

Most Obama supporters undoubtedly believe that McCain came off as simplistic, that he sounded like a talking point for the politics of fear. But from the perspective of a low-information swing voter, I'd bet that McCain came off a lot better than Obama.

The biggest gut factor in this campaign is whether these swing voters can envision Obama grappling effectively with a national security crisis in the middle of the night. A ruminative ramble about evil, about the need for "humility" when trying to confront the evil that may exist in Darfur or in American households or wherever, does not have nearly the same visceral punch as a terse, focused response about al Qaeda (indeed, Obama never even got around to mentioning al Qaeda).

I'm not suggesting that McCain's qualitiative arguments were better or worse (he riffed yet again about "victory" in Iraq, as ever ill-defined). I'm suggesting only that, with respect to the communicative arts in this media-saturated culture, nuanced thoughtfulness is arguably less effective than declarative directness; indeed, the former is particularly perilous for any Democrat, since, fairly or not, millions of low-information swing voters still view the Democrats as insufficiently resolute. These voters are likely to favor the declarative approach anyway, if only because it is easier to ascertain where the candidate stands.

And this is potentially a warning bell for Obama, as the autumn debate season draws near. McCain will be far tougher in those three sessions than many Obama fans assume. Obama might be well advised to lose the nuance and punch up his responses; after all, as a general rule, visceral trumps cerebral.

 

Posted by Dick Polman @ 11:13 AM  Permalink | 190 comments
Comments   
Posted 01:10 AM, 08/21/2008
p-diddy
Why did the NY Times hire Kristol? Simple. To make inroads into the social conservative market.
Posted 12:12 PM, 08/19/2008
CB
Sierra - You need to remember that over the past 10 years it was the Democrats (in the guise of Congressman Rangle from New York) who have introduced legislation to bring back the draft. Be afraid, be very afraid!
Posted 11:39 AM, 08/19/2008
sierra
Just remember... thoughtful consideration to guestions...Obama. If you want a kneed jerk reaction..McCain. McCain has tunnel vision and will have us in war upon war... the draft will have to be back in place! and the only ones left to send to war will be the over-the-hill gang...lead by McCain himself to war and to more wars... get your pitch forks ladies.. we will need them if McWar is voted into WH... DON"T FORGET THE DRAFT!
Posted 10:33 AM, 08/19/2008
jwad56
Djoko Pritza is just repeating the same old thing from Obama: Whine whine whine.
Posted 10:15 AM, 08/19/2008
CB
Visceral trumps cerebral - Good title for an opinion piece. Makes it sould like Obama actually made sense out of his answers rather than the uncontrollable blather it actually was. Where's the teleprompter and written script when you need one? Remember Hope and Change.
Posted 10:12 AM, 08/19/2008
Phillysub
I think it's very favorable toward Obama to call his answering style 'cerebral' and McCain's 'visceral'. Both men are intelligent and I don't think the amount of words you use to answer a question indicates how cerebral you are. To me the differences were 'commital' versus 'non-commital'. McCain gave solid answers, Obama did not. If this was the first time I ever heard both men speak about the issues, I would have a good idea what McCain believes, and almost no idea about Obama.
Posted 10:09 AM, 08/19/2008
Djoko Pritza
The significance, Hater, which seems to have escaped you, is that McCainiacs were giddy over his performance, having feared he’d sound in a debate like the buffoon he comes across as while speaking extemporaneously. So, if he cheated to sound coherent, well, you should even be able to follow that line of thinking ...
Posted 10:02 AM, 08/19/2008
Djoko Pritza
The McCain campaign camp issued this statment: "The insinuation from the Obama campaign that John McCain, a former prisoner of war, cheated is outrageous." What's POW got to do with it? Guilty as charged.
Posted 09:48 AM, 08/19/2008
JimR
Hater, Everyone may know that the biggest political audiences belong to conservatives but the group you reffed is not what you'd go to for information. It's entertainment. BTW - the voice for those guys locally is the conservative anti-Christ, CBS. That would be the former home of noted conservative, Dan Rather.
Posted 09:35 AM, 08/19/2008
psv
You would think that Americans would know better than to vote for someone who speaks in terms of black and white. It worked out so well for us with the last one...
Posted 09:13 AM, 08/19/2008
ObamaHATER
Dj: If my guy cheated then he needs to be punished. Next debate he needs to be blindfolded and spun in a circle while asked questions. You sound like a kid.
Posted 07:36 AM, 08/19/2008
Yoni
So now demagogary pass as better PR? I guess Moussolini would've been the ideal candidate for today's America...
Posted 07:11 AM, 08/19/2008
rozz62
Obama and the Born-Alive Act Six years ago, Congress passed the "Born-Alive Infants Protection Act," making it illegal to kill a child who is fully born during an attempted abortion. The bill passed without a single opposing vote in either house, and was signed into law by President Bush on August 5, 2002. When he was a state senator at that same time, Barack Obama opposed a state version of the bill in Illinois. His explanation for the vote since then has been that the state version did not include a so-called "neutrality clause" which says explicitly that the bill is not meant to influence the legal standing of a fetus before birth one way or another. The federal law contained such a clause, and the state law, Obama has long insisted, did not. As recently as June 30, the Obama campaign made that case to answer the charge (in that case from Bill Bennett) that Obama had opposed the Born-Alive Act. But now, the National Right to Life Committee has uncovered proof that Obama in fact voted in committee against even the version of the Illinois Born-Alive Act that did include exactly the same "neutrality clause" as the federal bill. On March 12, 2003, when the bill was being debated, an amendment was added that inserted the neutrality language of the federal bill verbatim into the Illinois bill. Obama voted for the amendment (that's the vote on the left-hand column on this committee vote record), and then voted against the amended bill (that's the vote on the right on the same document). All the Democrats on the committee (which Obama chaired) followed his lead, and the bill was defeated. This was, again, legislation that in the same form had by then passed unanimously at the federal level. Even NARAL did not oppose it. Apparently Barack Obama did, and his old explanation for doing so seems at odds with the facts.
Posted 07:03 AM, 08/19/2008
rozz62
PLEASE WATCH AND SHARE WITH EVERYONE ASAP "The Last 100 Days" Hon. James David Manning, PhD. www.atlah.org/broadcast/ndnr07-28-08.html www.dontvoteobama.net http://savagepolitics.com/?p=1345
Posted 06:37 AM, 08/19/2008
HKraig
Religion=low information. Important decisions for our country should be based in fact and reason and not on religious principles. There is something called the division between church and state, which certainly seems blurred when the two people running for president of our country need to kowtow to the "faith based" crowd by appearing in a faith forum. The sooner religion becomes a non factor in our leader's political decisions the sooner this country will start to move toward progress.
Posted 02:56 AM, 08/19/2008
yobill626
Somebody quoted Bill Kristol earlier. Bill Kristol?!? How is this twit still getting printed? Based on how tight the print media is getting (see: Bunch, Will), how does an editor make room for a guy who's been this wrong this often? The Cons must be right --- The NY Times HAS to be going down the drain.
Posted 02:43 AM, 08/19/2008
yobill626
I think its pretty interesting to note that of the 173 comments already posted here, only 3 people specifically noted that they were Evangelicals (a major target audience). I was surprised that 2 of those 3 claimed disappointment with McCain's performance (one of those chazzbo, has posted often in support of McCain, which I feel gives his post even more credence). I thought chazzbo & the other poster gave very thoughtful & specific reasons why they were unimpressed. I'd be interested to hear how others in the Religious Right viewed the performances. Lastly, as someone who admittedly is not a part of the Religious Right, I was impressed with how reasonable & down to earth Warren appears to be. I've long thought that the leaders of the Religious Right (& the Religious Left) are extremists who are dangerous to the true health of our society.
Posted 02:29 AM, 08/19/2008
Talvenada
OBSERVER: Obama robots looks like slime to me. It says your way is the only way, and ANYBODY who doesn't agree gets slimed, insulted, discredited.
Posted 02:23 AM, 08/19/2008
Talvenada
Man, this really brought the fringe out today. TAL would this be examples of slightly left, moderate positions?..............................I also said Mr. Bush and his minions have turned me off but good. We disagree on EVERYTHING: Going to war w/ Iraq from 11/21/01, Global Warming, stem-cell research, creationism, abortion leading to illegal abortions in back alleys, etc. But the methods of censorship, agenda-driven hiring, using people for image purposes (Powell & Whitman), retaliation for whistle blowers, threats to govm. employees, using 9/11 for political gain and war w/ Iraq, etc. This admin. is the worst I've ever seen or heard of; and when McCain supports their policies, does he also wish to use their methods toward a one-party system? A PERMANENT NEO-CON GOVERNMENT: By The Neo-Cons, for The Neo-Cons w/ freedom and rights for ONLY Neo-Cons. NO, THANKS!!
Posted 01:10 AM, 08/19/2008
Djoko Pritza
"Now, if The One is afraid to debate another American, how do you think he will do up against Putin?" What's your point here, occam the rabid? That Putin is tougher than McCain? You are the clever one.
Posted 12:51 AM, 08/19/2008
occam
Obama is incapable of a real-time straight forward response to questions. First his army of advisors and policy experts must gather and analyze data, do some background research, check the polls to determine public opinion, and check in with her highness Pelosi. They then create Oabama's opinion for him, being careful to be equivocal to provide wiggle-room for the future. The team then informs Obama of his position and produces an inspiring scripted response. Obama rehearses his response, Obama then delivers it from a teleprompter before a crowd of admiring sycophants. Without his advisors, The One's answers consist mostly of “uuughs”, “you knows”, and mind numbing double-speak. This is why when Obama said “He would debate McCain anytime, anywhere”, He was lying … McCain called his bluff, and the little coward blinked. Now, if The One is afraid to debate another American, how do you think he will do up against Putin?
Posted 12:26 AM, 08/19/2008
p-diddy
The Muslims are coming! The Muslims are coming! AHHHHHHH!
Posted 12:06 AM, 08/19/2008
Djoko Pritza
Hey, Hater. Let's see, McCain was in his caravan for half of Obama's time on stage. He has cell phones, Blackberries, onboard TV, wireless Internet, but because he and his Rovian aids are such noble people that no one peeped at the questions being asked. Yet, the stumblebum McCain, who after years as a war hawk doesn't even know Sunni from Shiite, Czechoslovakia from the Czech Republic and can't pronounce the name of his good friend Saakaskvili, seems sharp and quick in the glare of prime time. Tell me another fairy tale. I know the guy cheated (he'd do anything) and so do you.
Posted 11:44 PM, 08/18/2008
KQuark
As a Christian, I saw this forum as a chance for Sen. McCain to show me that there is any depth or deeper understanding to his proclaimed faith. From my perspective, McCain failed miserably. I could give example after example, but he lost me out of the starting gate. McCain gave the canned response to what it means to be a Christian (believe oneself to be saved by Christ) and then, then rather than elaborate, he side-stepped by telling an anecdote. Here is the problem: the story was about the faith of a Viet Cong soldier when he showed mercy and compassion to a US POW. It did not speak to McCain's understanding of how being a Christian informs and guides his own life. Obama also spoke of being saved, but then added that part of what being believer means is that what one does for the least of these, one does for Jesus. To me that is the backbone of my faith & Obama hit it head-on. Obama also paraphrased the Prophet Micah when discussing what is required of us: to do justice, love mercy and walk humbly with our God. Was there anything in McCain's answers that had much to do with true justice, mercy or humility? Revenge is not the same thing as justice. The war-mongering rhetoric had nothing of the flavor of mercy to it, nor did it reflect a need for more humility in the way this country deals with others. Obama appears to be a person on a journey of faith that actively engages him on a continuous basis. McCain confirmed my guess that attending North Phoenix Baptist Church (how many times did he mention that?) is just on his punch list for getting nominated.
Posted 11:35 PM, 08/18/2008
KQuark
If you like good and evil, black and white thinking McCain is your man, just like Bush was your man. If you want someone thoughtful and candid vote for Obama the choice could not be more clear. McBush is your typical Rethuglican who is self assured but usually is proven to be wrong.
Posted 11:15 PM, 08/18/2008
homer2811
I find it hard to believe that Sen.Obama continues to stumble his way through this campaign.There was no way he was going to come out of this conference looking anything other than out of step and misinformed.It was always meant to be an ambush and he fell right into the trap.He is simply wasting his time trying to convince the right to life,conservative,evangelicals that he should be their choice for president.His time and efforts would be better spent letting these same folks know that if they wish to continue to vote on the single issue of abortion while everything else around them is going to hell in a basket,so be it.To those supporters like myself who see the the question as a privacy issue,he only has to state that he supports Roe vs Wade and move on.When the issue is broached in the future he may ask Sen.McCain if he in fact plans to make criminals of the mothers who seek and the doctors that provide safe abortions.I'm beginning to feel that Sen.Obama may be too arrogant for his own good or maybe the people advising him are too inept by allowing the McCain campaign to continue to define and frame the issues.
Posted 10:55 PM, 08/18/2008
itp33
Wow!! I hope all you Mccain supporters show up on the big day. How a "former" Muslim can win PA let alone the USA is very troublesome to me.
Posted 10:29 PM, 08/18/2008
michaelp0429
I am of way above average intelligence according to every standardized test I ever took. The problem with Obama's answers is not that he gave too much information or that his thinking was too nuanced - I love intelligent nuanced thinking which is why I voted for Clinton - Obama's problem is he spends all his time and energy trying to appeal to all voters at all times. He refuses to take a stand on anything and is driven entirely by polls. So, when he is asked a question and knows that his audience disagrees with him, rather than standing up for what he believes in he rambles on and on trying to obscure his beliefs and pretend that he really agrees with everyone (so they will all vote for him). He's an intellectual coward.
Posted 09:36 PM, 08/18/2008
ObamaHATER
I think alot of you guys are misinterpreting Polman's "low-info" comment as refering to republicans. EVERYONE know the biggest political radio audiences belong to Mr. Limbaugh, Mr. Hannity, and Mr. Beck all conservatives. Information is the republican weapon against dumb libs. Polman is of course very aware that the majority of Obama's supporters are the indifferent young people. It's supported in poll after poll. Polman is stating that his messiah need to simplify his comments to the speechs he originally gave to win that support. He is also admitting that McCain is doing his best to cut into that base.
Posted 09:22 PM, 08/18/2008
ObserverOfLife
RE: Posted by vc bear 09:06 PM, 08/18/2008 McCain was easy to understand and on point. Obama was not. Like with the debates Obama was in he falls short. He is really a telepromter guy and that will cost him. GOOD POINTS. WE NEED A PRESIDENT WHO CAN REACT WELL AND QUICKLY, NOT ONE WHO IS A TALKING HEAD READING A PREPARED SCRIPT. McCain for president, EgObama for Katie Couric's replacement on the CBS Evening News. That way both have jobs, and our country has the best leader based on the pool.
Posted 09:17 PM, 08/18/2008
Don Dempsey
Polman asserts that a deeply held, or instinctive view will necessarily (i.e. always, by definition) differ from a carefully reasoned one. He offered no evidence to support that assertion. I can think of examples where instinct and careful reasoning lead to the same conclusion, and therefore reject Polman's assertion. The question at hand was what do you believe (which can be answered directly and succinctly), not why (which would require a longer, more nuanced explanation). McCain answered directly and succinctly. Obama's rambling evasion displayed neither depth of thought, nor courage of conviction, and concealed the requested conclusion. The contrast was unmistakeable, revealing, and did NOT favor Obama.
Posted 09:17 PM, 08/18/2008
ObserverOfLife
RE: Posted by Talvenada 06:59 PM, 08/18/2008 OBSERVER: Nice slime job, nice putting of words in my mouth. I said low-info, not low-life. Publicans want deep pockets, and want low-lifes to lose their voting rights. Note some of the laws their interested in. Response: Not a slime job. You overreact. The implication by your comment and other EgObama Robots is that those who are "low-information" are somehow in a different class that the "elite" Democrats who are "all knowing" and somehow "superior" in their thought patterns. And, what mythical laws are your referring to? Those of us who happen on honest grounds to disagree with the "great" EgObama have no plans to pass any laws. Can the Democrats say the same? For one, they want to take away the right to discussion with a renewed "fairness" doctrine, which would in fact put much of the media under their control.
Posted 09:11 PM, 08/18/2008
ObserverOfLife
Posted by Djoko Pritza 04:37 PM, 08/18/2008 Yeah, but, observeroflife, it may be that McCain knew the questions before his turn on stage. Response: A MYTH BEING PERPETRATED BY EgObama ROBOTS BECAUSE HE DID NOT DO WELL IN GIVING STRAIGHT BASIC ANSWERS. NICE TRY, BUT NO CIGAR. McCain outperformed EgObama pure and simple.
Posted 09:06 PM, 08/18/2008
vc bear
McCain was easy to understand and on point. Obama was not. Like with the debates Obama was in he falls short. He is really a telepromter guy and that will cost him.
Posted 08:42 PM, 08/18/2008
ObamaHATER
"Visceral trumps cerebral" will probably go down as one of the best blogs Polman has done. Very nice. Low-info voters is right on. Fox news has exsposed this faction of voter during the rise of the messiah. Noone in American history has a bigger following of mindless voters than baby killer Obama. McCain was right on to appeal to that faction and try to dwindle his support.
Posted 08:20 PM, 08/18/2008
ObamaHATER
Bottom line on abortion-the messiah would allow botched abortion babies to be murdered. That really ends that debate. Let's get past it and move on.
Posted 08:16 PM, 08/18/2008
ToastOnDayOne
RandomStu--I agree. I think the question WAS philosophical not legal. But many people in the church (and watchiing on TV) understood it to be legal, i.e the need to draw a line. Obama's answer was way too nuanced, and I'm sure it sounded to those people like a very inappropriate attempt to punt.
Posted 08:12 PM, 08/18/2008
JimR
Man, this really brought the fringe out today. TAL would this be examples of slightly left, moderate positions? And Frank...? You guys are giving real libs a bad name. Where is praedeep when we need a MOR?
Posted 08:05 PM, 08/18/2008
p-diddy
Can we stop arguing about abortion, please? What sort of person would attend a "megachurch" anyway? Can't we get back to the real issues, like gay marriage and flag lapel pins?
Posted 06:59 PM, 08/18/2008
Talvenada
OBSERVER: Nice slime job, nice putting of words in my mouth. I said low-info, not low-life. Publicans want deep pockets, and want low-lifes to lose their voting rights. Note some of the laws their interested in.
Comment removed.
Posted 06:24 PM, 08/18/2008
ObserverOfLife
RE: Talvenada 06:02 PM, 08/18/2008 DEMS, LIBS AND OBAMA FLUNKIES: Leave low-info voters alone. They're off-limits. They're McCain's base. Response: RATHER AN ELITIST ATTITUDE, ONE CAN SURMISE. SO "LOW-LIFE" PEOPLE ARE LESS THAN WORTHY?? USING YOUR LOGIC, WHY NOT SET UP CONCENTRATION CAMPS TO "CLEANSE" THE U.S. OF ALL BUT DEMOCRATS or EgObama ROBOTS? SOUNDS LIKE YOU PREFER A FACIST STATE RUN BY EgObama.
Posted 06:16 PM, 08/18/2008
pnkearns
"But from the perspective of a low-information swing voter, I'd bet that McCain came off a lot better than Obama."..? Sheesh. It could be that the swing voter can tell from the answers that McCain understands the issues and Obama doesn't have a clue.
Posted 06:10 PM, 08/18/2008
RandomStu
If the question were "When does life begin?" then Obama's answer would make sense. That question is philosophical and theological. It's not the government's role to answer such questions, so indeed it's "above the pay grade" of even a president. And yet the government does need to decide at which point a fetus/baby gets it's life protected by society. It could be at conception; at 6 months after conception; when it's partially emerged from the womb; when it's fully emerged from the womb; or even at some period after birth. But the government has got to draw a line SOMEWHERE, and that's the question Obama was asked, and that questions is indeed within the president's pay grade. It's indeed worth noting that there are many issues (like "when does life begin?") that government should stay out of, and leave to philosophy and religion. But Obama didn't express that clearly. Indeed, if he had clearly stated that government shouldn't get involved in such questions, it may have been problematic for the Dem's more liberal wing. Stuart http://stuart-randomthoughts.blogspot.com/
Posted 06:08 PM, 08/18/2008
langx
Bush had control of Congress and the Supreme court yet he did nothing to outlaw abortion. Thet cold care less about abortions. It's just another issue to get the idiots to vote against there own self interest. Republicans. Proud to be IGNORANT
Posted 06:02 PM, 08/18/2008
Talvenada
DEMS, LIBS AND OBAMA FLUNKIES: Leave low-info voters alone. They're off-limits. They're McCain's base.
Comment removed.
Posted 05:19 PM, 08/18/2008
Djoko Pritza
I think life begins when you depart the cone of silence.
Posted 05:16 PM, 08/18/2008
ObserverOfLife
Human life begins a conception. What is so difficult about that answer, Mr. EgObama? As to pay grade, even those of us in Bitterville, who in EgObama's view are naive fools, understand that a pregnant woman is carrying a pre-born human being.
Posted 05:08 PM, 08/18/2008
feudi
I'd be amazed if the Dems lose this race. The differences in these two guys is huge. In the debates, McCain comes off as wooden, but for as smooth Obama is giving a speech, he is often remarkably inarticulate in his off the cuff responses to many questions. Policy-wise, it's hard to see how Obama can lose. Ar eyou for spending another $10 Billion a month in Iraq for lord knows how long, or are you for putting that dough into converting our energy infrastructure into one that uses wind, sun, and geo-thermal. No matter who wins, I want T. Boone Pickens for Energy Czar!
Posted 04:56 PM, 08/18/2008
Djoko Pritza
Hey, Tom, then why lie about being in a "cone of silence." McCain: "I tried to listen through the walls. Ha. Ha." Why didn't he just say "I was in my limo most of the time"? That would have been the honest, statesman-like thing to do.
Comment removed.
Posted 04:50 PM, 08/18/2008
tom - wilmington, de
djoko, read Byron York's piece today about who had what questions and how Warren gave them each the topics and sample questions beforehand. With that information, Obama should have been more prepared, or at least not come off as unprepared.
Comment removed.
Posted 04:47 PM, 08/18/2008
Djoko Pritza
Reports now are that Cone-O-Silence McCain was in his motorcade a half-hour into Obama's answers to Warren questions. His people "vehementaly" deny he had any information on the questions. Isn't a Karl Rove acolyte this campaign director? Enough said. He cheated!
Posted 04:47 PM, 08/18/2008
JeffA
If anyone's still reading, however, I'll say this: Props to Obama for even doing this forum. Talk about being set up to fail. I don't have the time, energy, nor patience to care enough about this forum to read the transcript or watch it. Anyone who thinks this matters in the face of the economic meltdown we're experiencing while the feds tighten their grip on our lives, enslaving us all, is sadly mistaken. A number of "experts" just said the banking crisis isn't even halfway done. We're not going to be able to threaten spitballs at anyone the way we're mortgaging our future. We just have to pull back and realize the world will function without the US on patrol.
Posted 04:42 PM, 08/18/2008
CheapPhillies
Again, I'm for McCain but it is easier to not look or be slippery for him - his core beliefs are closer at heart to the Evangelical monsterous underbelly. O'bama is deceptive in trying to win the favor of the Evangelicals, and it's just that he sells himself backly, and looks way to much at interviewer and not the audience. Who is coaching him?
Posted 04:41 PM, 08/18/2008
Banshee
The Dimocraps' convention may turn out to be interesting, after all. Will the Dims dump this empty suit? Because he's constitutionally disqualified? Because of McCain's momentum? For whom will they dump him? Hillary's damaged goods. Edwards is political carrion. Will they turn to fat boy, "I invented the internet," Al? For comic relief, as usual we can rely upon the Dimocraps.
Comment removed.
Posted 04:38 PM, 08/18/2008
holman
The correct answer for Obama is: A fetus is not a baby until the mother declares that it is. Only then does the baby have rights. For the social argument over abortion revolves around “wanted versus unwanted”, not when life begins. If the woman who is carrying the child wants the baby, it has rights. If the mother elects to abort for any reason, or no reason at all, that is her superior right. And you are not going to get half this population (and 30% of the evangelicals who were polled and will vote for Obama), to budge off this maxim. So all you guys who do not have a dog in this fight might want to treat silence as NOT consenting to your thinking. You know what I am talking about. Just like Barbara Bush. There are a large number of Republican women who just remain silent on the subject because they do not want to argue about it. But remember, 51% of the voters in November are women. You keep yammering on about this, and you might get a reverse Wilder Effect.
Posted 04:37 PM, 08/18/2008
molonlabe
Dick Polman said: "nuanced thoughtfulness is arguably less effective than declarative directness...millions of low-information swing voters still view the Democrats as insufficiently resolute." I'm still wondering why everyone thinks the media's so elitist?? The "above my paygrade" shoutout was unbelievably lame. The question asked "in your view," not "what do you think God's view is," and he punted on answering it. I can't say what his views really are, I just know that he won't cross the line in the sand set by his legal-abortion-on-demand-anytime-in-pregnancy patrons. That's not leadership. Don't be too surprised if those of us "low info voters" opposed to abortion don't all hop on the Obama-media circus train because the party platform gives a shoutout to "lifers". But the decision was fully within his paygrade in 2001 in Illinois, when he voted in favor of letting infants surviving late-term abortions die and be discarded with the rubbish. He spoke out against protecting the human rights of infants with down syndrome, even Hillary and Ted Kennedy voted for human rights for these infants in the US Senate. Of course, according to Obama (paraphrasing the first coming of the messiah): "We still don't abide by that basic precept of Matthew -- whatever you do to the least of my brothers, you do to me." Maybe I'm not cerebral enough to understand where an infant born with down syndrome doesn't fit into that view of humanity.
Posted 04:37 PM, 08/18/2008
Djoko Pritza
Yeah, but, observeroflife, it may be that McCain knew the questions before his turn on stage.
Posted 04:36 PM, 08/18/2008
constantine
When I listen to the way Obama answers unscripted questions and issues, I can't help but think that he often feels too ambivalent, unsure, or uninformed. Honestly, for the latter two aspects (unsure or uninformed), he sounds more like GW Bush than Bill Clinton. When Bill Clinton speaks, he almost always sounds decisive, certain, and informed... even when he's not truly decisive, certain, and informed (waiting to find out what the polls are saying or when he's caught off-guard). He only seemed to break down during the impeachment period of his presidency. When Obama speaks, he gives all sorts of cues (pauses, fillers, corrections, inflection, and body language) that indicate insecurity or ambivalence with what he is talking about. As for "intellectual philosophizing" that people speak of, Obama certainly has had plenty of deep exposure to pragmatism, postmodernism, poststructuralism, and all sorts of other philosophical perspectives at Columbia and Harvard. However, what is often attributed to as intellectualism or philosophizing in his speeches or responses is merely dodging or evasive manuevering which doesn't sound very good. If he speaks more like Clinton, he'll sound more convincing. Like Bill, Hillary is very decisive and confident when she speaks, and that's why she sounds better intellectually... although she has some of her own problems with her tone and facial affect which she and her campaign staff evidently had been addressing. I don't expect him to change his perspectives and approach (although he may have to), but given the time, he needs more coaching, more practice without a teleprompter, and a different approach to answering questions or spontaneous responses. Unfortunately, people may start to realize that some of this stems from his lack of experience as a speaker and politician. From another angle, Obama's style of response wouldn't sound good during a date or a job interview. Would you want your date or applicant to sound like him?
Posted 04:34 PM, 08/18/2008
ObserverOfLife
McCain's answers came across as sincere. EgObama came across as a slippery politician who will attempt to nuance his way around tough questions, just to fool the voting public about what he really believes. Prediction: McCain over EgObama.
Posted 04:34 PM, 08/18/2008
CheapPhillies
I don't like to hear the cerebral ramblings of an elitist clown but Obama is under-pressure to placate the Evangelicals, which was done poorly. But I don't like the Christain stranglehold on the Republicans. Also, morality doesn't not come from religion or belief in god, all you 95% believers. There is not a meaningful difference in morality or criminality between believers or non=believers. So John McCain gets my vote because he seems to varicate less and won't take orders from the Evangelist (well-intention people who take the Bible literally and ingore the thousands of contradictions and falsehoods and myths found in the Bible). I'm an Atheist since 5 and grew up reiligious but my mom never stopped me from thinking outside the box - when at 8 I questioned who created god then? and brought home books on evolution. I'd rather stand with the 94% of Nobel science winner who wrote that they do not believe in god then with George Bush SR who said "Atheists shouldn'be able to vote - they are not moral. Boy I wish I lived in Europe and so many places in the world where they know morality has much more to do with the way one is brought up and genetics and nuturing can't mostly; religion is the opiate of the masses though I am a capitalist and think US is the best country ever Despite this foolish untenable belief that God is there or god is good. Why are they so many stupid people, when it comes to belief in the supernatural, in the world ??
Posted 04:31 PM, 08/18/2008
JeffA
Is anyone reading this far down the list? Polman must laugh his rear off. Anytime abortion comes up, we'll get a hundred comments in record time.
Posted 04:30 PM, 08/18/2008
Leigh Kwait
Since I have been informed by Nancy Pelosi that "obama has been sent by God" and John Dean has cast me into a "white man's racist party" I can confidently vote for the "anointed" black man and assert that I am neither a raciest nor am I defying God's intent. BHO's "cerebral" opinions must be meaningful and appropriate to GOD, even though I don't understand them, so I will vote with GOD's Party.
Posted 04:29 PM, 08/18/2008
PhillykidinruralPA
What is a low information voter...are they less qualified than other voters...are they less relevant than other voters or are they voters who relay on how a candidate presents themselves and spend less time listening to pundits, academics and party politicians who regularly tell them how they should vote. What is a candidate who presents their positions with "visceral, cerebal nuance" an honest simple no nonse person or a charlatan that dances a lot. Or a candidate who answers questions with declaritive directness" a blunt no non-sense straight talk kind of guy...which one do you choose from...film at 11.
Posted 04:24 PM, 08/18/2008
squintymc
Hey Humphrey, by your "logic," that would mean those of us who are "pro-abortion" would be free to call so-called pro-lifers "pro-forcing teenage victims of incestual rape to have babies" or "pro-endagering the lives of women" or "pro-bombing medical professionals and their legal clinics"? See how it's not really fair to define a complicated subject by the most extreme examples? Seems to me that pro-choice people are pretty respectful of the other side, while pro-lifers constantly try to villify those who oppose them instead of simply promoting their own ideals. Suggesting that ANYONE is PRO abortion is not only absurd but totally offensive. Further, just imagine if you pro-lifers got your way and the big bad government was allowed to tell ladies when they could and could not have babies. Since, you know, the law works both ways. Once you say the government is allowed to dictate that you must have your baby, the floodgates are open. What if the dreaded Obama wins? What if he and his other pinko commie buddies decide overpopulation is endangering squirrels or something and start regulating how many babies a woman can have? Would that suit you? No, it wouldn't, because such decisions shouldn't be left in the hands of the government. Whether Dubya or Barack Hussein Obama is in charge.
Comment removed.
Posted 04:24 PM, 08/18/2008
tom - wilmington, de
frankenstein, so using your logic, a person really cannot be "pro-choice" unless they are pro-choice on everything. So, if a person chooses to commit suicide, he/she should be allowed because that is their body and their choice. Shall we carry it to every extreme?
Posted 04:20 PM, 08/18/2008
tom - wilmington, de
Remember, Obama is the man who is going to teach morals and values to his two daughters, but if they make a mistake, he does not want them...in his words....."punished with a baby". No wonder he could not answer the abortion question directly. Unwanted children are a punishment. To think, this from a man born out of wedlock. I suppose he believes his mother was punished. I was also taken aback at his first answer about who he would trust, and he named his grandmother, his racist grandmother. Oh, those words can come back to haunt a person.
Posted 04:19 PM, 08/18/2008
Djoko Pritza
Hey, gang, is it possible Cone-O-Silence McCain cheated on that debate Sat. night?
Comment removed.
Posted 04:18 PM, 08/18/2008
dan19148
the fact is he's extremely to the left, my favorite quote that didn't get much airplay some months back "I WOULDNT WANT MY DAUGHTERS PUNISHED WITH A BABY", nice. and voting to allow a minor get abortion across state lines accompanied by a non parent or the whole live birth vote, too far left. MEANWHILE he's the opposite it seems with criminals, hes AGAINST MANDATORY MINIMUMS and voted for the opportunity for criminals to sue victims if the victim used a gun to shoot them, CRAZY!!! These are REAL ISSUES that are being ignored, I only hope people don't learn about this stuff too late!
Posted 04:14 PM, 08/18/2008
squintymc
How interesting, pro-McCain people are "supporters" and pro-Obama people are "fans." How dare anyone under 30 express a political opinion, right? Especially if you're a moderately attractive white girl...ladies, you must be confused, the Jonas Brothers concert is that-a-way! There's no way you might have a legitimate interest in democracy.
Comment removed.
Posted 04:13 PM, 08/18/2008
fbpdplt
Polman ... I have a question for you ..Is your arm dislocated from trying to pat yourself on your back? . You really are impressed with yourself... Another sickening liberal! ...
Comment removed.
Comment removed.
Posted 04:12 PM, 08/18/2008
Gibba Mang
You really have to wonder about a man (McSame) who rejected his own religious teachings as an Episcopalian and "convert" to being a Baptist just to get the ultra conservative evangelical vote.
Comment removed.
Posted 04:05 PM, 08/18/2008
mish798798
I would say that a "low information voter" would be anyone who hears Obama's meandering words that never actually answer the question, and thinks he actually said something profound.
Posted 04:04 PM, 08/18/2008
mish798798
I would say that a "low information voter" would be anyone who hears Obama's meandering words that never actually answer the question, and thinks he actually said something profound.
Comment removed.
Posted 03:56 PM, 08/18/2008
Talvenada
LAST PUBLICAN: Obama Nation as advertised on Rush? As purchased in bulk by Neo-Con Apologist Orgs? The book where the author refers to himself 26 out of 28 times as his source for information? The book written by the swiftboat-book creator? How could anything be more in favor of Obama? If it favors Obama that much, how can it be fair and balanced? Are you sure want to recommend such a bias book?
Comment removed.
Posted 03:55 PM, 08/18/2008
FlyersFan561
Why is religion dictating our next president? Instead of abortion, lets focus on things that matter...say...economy, gas, education, mass transit, healthcare.
Posted 03:52 PM, 08/18/2008
twentysecs
Well in this area nj pa. We voted for the person who would give us defintive answers and would have no fear. As Democrates we messed up again. Obama is 8 year away from being pres. Hillary would have gotten him there and for the next 16 we would have our country going in the right direction. No now obama is so lost without hillary. I mean all he did was agree with Hillary on her agenda and took it from her. Now he does not know how to answer cause Hillary is not there.
Posted 03:52 PM, 08/18/2008
twentysecs
Well in this area nj pa. We voted for the person who would give us defintive answers and would have no fear. As Democrates we messed up again. Obama is 8 year away from being pres. Hillary would have gotten him there and for the next 16 we would have our country going in the right direction. No now obama is so lost without hillary. I mean all he did was agree with Hillary on her agenda and took it from her. Now he does not know how to answer cause Hillary is not there.
Posted 03:52 PM, 08/18/2008
chazzbo
frank, No, I don't expect every woman with an unplanned pregnancy to keep her child - I don't see where you think I've stated that. But I will always be willing to help those who are looking for answers on both sides of the question "What can I do?" If it's my faith that drives me to want to provide assistance, how am I keeping someone from making up their own mind? And actually, because many of these programs are run primarily through churches and para-church organizations, they are often exempt from taxpayer funds. Your precious tax dollars are safe. As for your charge that we're forcing women to keep their children, you'd have to ask some of these moms how "forced" they feel. I don't believe either of us is qualified to speak for them. And the assertion that Christians are not adopting children is simply laughable.
Posted 03:50 PM, 08/18/2008
WeedsNSticks
HAHAHA Congrats Mr. Conservative. Obama did prove to be indecisive. But, I think it isn't a fair question. Exp. Abortion: Conservative are very clear on what they want and the answer they expect. Conservatives are pretty simple and there isn't much depth to them, so the answers are easy. Abortion = Bad. So ask a Conservative what their stance is, and the answer is clear. Is has to be cause conservative can't handle the 'Cerebral' the thought-full, the introspective. This is too complicated and the poor conservative starts bashing and calling liberals names. Remember, violence is the last resort of the limited mind. And, well, that's what we are getting a lot of these days. Obama didn't make a good showing, but to answer the question, about abortion, coming from the left, isn't an easy answer, cause for us it isn't as simple to just say, yes, I support choice and walk away. See, Mr. Conservative, it isn't that Lieberals support abortion, or think it a great thing. I'll have three today please. Is that we dislike what happens when you close to door to abortion; women having babies that have been rapped; thirteen year old girls with their daddies inside them. Are these GOD’s children, too?? Babies left on door steps, unwanted babies... And also something that disturbs the liberal mind is telling other people what they can do with their own bodies, something conservative men love to gloss over and pay no attention to. So, Obama was not all that articulate, and it may have been a day where McCain looked lucid, but those with better than average IQs are still voting to the left. Can't wait for all the xxit responses, maybe none.
Posted 03:47 PM, 08/18/2008
Naoquero
"Low information swing voter"... as opposed to NO information voters? What HIGH information was he prepared to provide? Did I miss something? Obama's responses cerebral? Emotive might be more accurate.
Comment removed.
Posted 03:46 PM, 08/18/2008
occam
Posted by bon 12:47 PM, 08/18/2008 jmc: It is the "What's the Matter with Kansas" frame of mind. Liberals of all stripes decided years ago that anyone who disagrees with them is either malicious or an idiot. Obama and his followers refuse to even recognize the possibility that an informed voter may support a decisive, experienced moderate for president over a radical who is only a few years removed from the state senate. .......................................... It's my belief this is because the true left-wing liberal is so convinced that his position correct he is utterly incapable of seeing or believing actual facts that are inconsistent with his world view. Because they are closed minded, they can not even conceive of the possibility that they may be wrong they will totally and completely ignore any and all fact that proves them wrong. In word they are ideologues. When that fails, they cry “cheat” and don the tinfoil hats of conspiracy moonbats. Truly pathetic. These are souless people who will never be happy for they live illusory lives. The left-wing liberal is a perpetual victim in search of victimizers -- victimology is the basis of the left-wing liberal politics. It's easy to see why Obama is their candidate ... he too is an illusion, a figment of his own imagination.
Posted 03:46 PM, 08/18/2008
Humphrey Glocko
It is interesting how the media will trip over themselves to avoid calling us "pro life". Anti abortion is one plank in the pro life platform. Oddly enough, the media calls the other side "pro choice", not "pro abortion". Biased.
Posted 03:43 PM, 08/18/2008
ET
McCain grew up in an age of multiple choices tests. Obama grew up in an age where there were no right or wrong answers. The liberals decided too many talented children were being overlooked by the antiquated system of either a b c or d. One had to elaborate on their answers and were graded accordingly. Who cared if the answer was wrong, what mattered was the thought process that went into coming up with the answer. As long as one gave a thoughtful and nuanced answer he got an A on the test.
Posted 03:42 PM, 08/18/2008
G$Money
It's good to see McCain stayed up that late ..he must have napped a long time earlier in the day
Comment removed.
Comment removed.
Posted 03:39 PM, 08/18/2008
Yaz
Those who believe it is commendable to make a reflexive decision without considering its effects on Americans and the world at large are damning themselves and their country. Today, perhaps more than ever, large chunks of the population deride intelligence and discussion in favor of immediate response. It's naive to insist that someone who states an opinion or establishes a platform in a short sentence knows how to achieve that goal. Stabbing another's statements with the words "liberal" or "elitist" or "snob" or "babbling" is proof that the attacker has no real response. This country was born of intelligent discussion, followed by bold and decisive action. The two aren't mutually exclusive.
Comment removed.
Posted 03:37 PM, 08/18/2008
occam
I guess at Harvard they don't teach you how to speak without a stream of "uuhs" and "you knows". Obama without a script is a joke. We need leaders who stand out front with clear messages, not equivocators who couch every word in an attempt to be on all sides of every issue. We need to know where our leaders stand without having to resort to a Bayesian statistical analysis of their words. Of course to send clear concise messages takes courage and conviction. Some have it, some are “nuanced” Olbama certainly represents Change, he changes ALL the time. I don't think even Obama knows what Obama means Obama, CHANGE you can believe in if you want a President who is narcissistic, specious, vacuous, and effete.
Posted 03:37 PM, 08/18/2008
makrom
You conservative GOPers just crack me up ... Any answer longer than 4 words is too much for you to comprehend, so the guy must be hiding something. My gosh. Thanks to you all we get guys like Bush 1 & 2 and may be some half-psycho 72 year old grandpa who is still living in the Vietnam war. BTW, does it not bother you at all that McCain voted for most of those judges he said he would NOT NOMINATE?? Oh, but the answer was short, so GOOD JOB, Gramps!
Posted 03:37 PM, 08/18/2008
doo dah man
Obama, Raise My Taxes Please!!!!
Comment removed.
Posted 03:30 PM, 08/18/2008
itp33
The more Hussein is pressed, the more McCain comes into focus.
Posted 03:29 PM, 08/18/2008
puttinonthefoil
For one: I don't find Obama difficult to understand. I find his departure from staunch dualistic thinking refreshing. I also don't quite get the "empty suit" style comments. If anything, something that sounds more like a commercial would fit the adjective "empty". But as evidenced here and all over, marketing is what people want, and in an oddly circular way, because marketing also tells you what to want to begin with. What sells? Crisp, commercial rhetoric still sells, whether it's flying out of Obama's lips at a rally or in the form of McCain's sound byte responses. Secondly: It is easy to fire a crisp one liner when you know your audience is receptive of it. Context matters. Had the debate taken place at UC Berkeley on different issues, the results would be different. Finally, abortion is something to discuss in 08. Given the status of the supreme court, women should be very concerned about laws, concepts, and their bodies in the upcoming election.
Posted 03:22 PM, 08/18/2008
GANick
I'm not about to question the author's contention that abortions are down fractionally over the last several years. However, there has only been one Demorcratic President since 1980 and abortion is still legal. Sadly, the individual occupying the White House during the last 7 years is himself, nothing short of an abortion.
Posted 03:21 PM, 08/18/2008
PennGuy86
McCain performed remarkably well! And Obama's "above my pay grade" answer was breathtakingly callous. Obama, though certainly a smart guy, simply has not thought critically--and in depth--about the diplomatic, social, political, moral, and economic challenges facing our country. His inexperience was on full display for everyone to see. John McCain, in contrast, revealed his experience, depth of convictions, and strength of judgment. He will be our next president.
Posted 03:18 PM, 08/18/2008
bon
franknstein: That seems like an odd objection. It is not like those 40 million babies who were not born would have been horrible drains on society. Like most other people, the vast majority would have become productive member of society, contributing as much as they took. The government does not need to do anything differently. (I am not strictly pro-life myself, you comment just strikes me as very odd.)
Posted 03:18 PM, 08/18/2008
chazzbo
Actually "frank", a number of us right wing anti-abortion holy roller nuts support single moms and their children through any number of community programs. Little things like food, clothing for mom and baby, shelter for those who may have been kicked out of their parents' homes. We also support programs that provide daycare so that moms can go to work or back to school, or help with GED programs for moms. Are all the nuts helping? Certainly not. But those of us that do help find it more rewarding than just ranting and pointing fingers.
Posted 03:10 PM, 08/18/2008
bon
Djoko Pritza: I seem to have gotten under your skin, but that was not my intent. Just pay closer attention to state polls and you won't find yourself making unsupportable assertions about them. Kristol's article sheds light on the meaning of Obama and McCain's responses to the question SI made reference to. Kristol's political affiliation notwithstanding, it is a good article and on point.
Comment removed.
Comment removed.
Posted 03:03 PM, 08/18/2008
chazzbo
As an Evangelical Christian, I was intrigued and concerned by what I saw on the Saddleback presentation. And found that a number of my like-minded friends shared the same thoughts. While I certainly disagree with a number of the political positions Obama represents, I did appreciate his willingness to make eye contact with Warren and engage with him as if it were an actual conversation and not a stump speech. He seemed to be forthright in his answers even though he should have known that they would not necessarily be in alignment with a majority of the audience in attendance. Though he was far from perfect, I never felt as if it the tone were condescending; which admittedly surprised me. McCain, on the other hand, had all the right words for the target audience, but I never felt like there was any connection with Warren ("Over here John, the guy asking the questions?"). It was almost as if he couldn't get into "character" fast enough. The Passwored is..."pandering". And for a number of reasons, it pains me to say that. Contrary to popular opinion, there are MANY Evangelicals like myself who watch these things carefully, and who do vote quite independently. And a lot of us are also struggling with the choice facing us.
Posted 03:02 PM, 08/18/2008
Djoko Pritza
Hey, bon, like, yeah, any sane person would check out a col written by Kristol, neocon par excellence. If Kristol were prez, we'd be in a ground war in Iran today. bon, you seem off your game today?
Posted 03:01 PM, 08/18/2008
bon
Djoko Pritza: McCain is ahead in the vast majority of the toss up states, albeit not by much. This flies in the face of your assertion that Obama is set for an electoral college blowout. (If you recall, that was the dicussion we were having.) To the contrary, if any polls of Indiana come out in the near future, it is very likely that McCain will be ahead in the electoral math.
Posted 02:59 PM, 08/18/2008
Djoko Pritza
Hey, bon, re this comment from you: "Djoko Pritza: You want me to respond to your platitudes about uniting the country? Ok ... McCain is a moderate conservative who happily takes criticism and enjoys debate. Obama is a radical liberal who accuses people who criticize him of being racist. ..." I have been cheered by this reply from you. You sound so desperate. A good sign.
Posted 02:56 PM, 08/18/2008
Djoko Pritza
Hey, bon, you're usually not so gullible. Have you researched how the "toss-up" states are awarded? I'll stick with the count that is pretty certain.
Comment removed.
Posted 02:55 PM, 08/18/2008
Zues
Tom and Xi: visceral works because people like you are foolish to think on your own. Think of the last argument you had. You probably said or did something instantly or in other words instinctively. When you calmed down and THOUGHT about it you probably realized you over reacted and should have or could have resolved the problem in a different more effective way. If republicans don't realize that we need a president that does it right the first time by thinking logically of a solution instead of reacting like by sending troops into the wrong country and creating a recession, than you don't deserve Obama and you republicans will not only be responsible for losing a war but destroying the greatest democracy in the world in the process by collapsing our economy. A one word visceral answer cant get us out of that mess chief. So go ahead and pat yourselves on the back for being foolish with your schoolgirl logic TomXi and vote for McSame in 08. " A lot of times a leader does not have the time for nuance and elaborate speeches....just make a decision. " NAME ONE!!!!
Posted 02:54 PM, 08/18/2008
jjfalcon35
Look at whats going on in the toss up states to know where the race stands. 270 votes are neeed to win
Posted 02:52 PM, 08/18/2008
bon
SI: If you are interested in an answer to your question check out Bill Kristol's article from this morning's NYT. The short answer is, it speaks to the candidates' world views. That is very important when selecting a president.
Posted 02:52 PM, 08/18/2008
longshanks
I meant 'deer in headlights.'
Posted 02:49 PM, 08/18/2008
longshanks
Dear in headlights? That's rich considering McCain not only doesn't answer the question but he consistently says things incorrectly and most of the time doesn't seem to even know where he is. Like for instance when he was fumbling with Russia vs. Georgia. Come on John, get out of the fog. It's ridiculous that we have to be worried about who the GOP VP is because nobody can count on McCain being senile or alive for even 4 years. If you're not happy with the last 8 years, and nobody should be, don't vote for McCain because we'll end up with the exact same lousy situation. Then again, I work for an outplacement firm and with the clueless McCain and the self-serving GOP in power we're sure to continue to have a terrible economy which means I'll do better.
Posted 02:49 PM, 08/18/2008
bon
Djoko Pritza: You want me to respond to your platitudes about uniting the country? Ok... McCain has spent his career passing legislation and working across the aisle. Obama has spent his career doing what the party bosses told him to. McCain is a moderate conservative who happily takes criticism and enjoys debate. Obama is a radical liberal who accuses people who criticize him of being racist. The "uniter" mask slipped off Obama long ago. It never fit him, anyway.
Posted 02:48 PM, 08/18/2008
still_independent
jmc, bon: "Defeat it." What the does that mean? You ask who is an uninformed voter? Anyone who thinks that is a great answer (to a stupid question). Concise blather is still blather... I'm not disagreeing the McCain "won", and that Obama must learn that nuance doesn't work in these forums.
Comment removed.
Posted 02:44 PM, 08/18/2008
thelastRepublicaninPhilly
Talvenada, Obama is (was)a Muslin, a terrorist supporter and will ruin this country. Read "The Obama Nation".
Posted 02:44 PM, 08/18/2008
bon
Djoko Pritza: As I said, click on the "no toss up states" button. McCain has 264 electoral votes to Obama's 275. Flip Indiana, which is a long, long shot for Obama, and McCain has 275. :)
Posted 02:42 PM, 08/18/2008
Djoko Pritza
Hey, bon, compare the two statesments. It should not be that hard for you to understand. Or is that one you don't have a talking point ready for? You should not free-lance.
Posted 02:41 PM, 08/18/2008
jwad56
The abortion question was very straightforward. I don't quite understand Obama's response. Just say what you think instead of trying to explain why what you think isn't so bad to your audience du jour. This is what it means to lead. It means to do and say what you think is right even when people are against you. Instead he pontificates.
Posted 02:40 PM, 08/18/2008
Gibba Mang
I would have more respect for the Anti Choice crowd if they showed some sense of caring for the child after birth. And I agree with gee that life's difficult decisions are not always black and white. Unfortunately the religious kooks in the GOP want to force their beliefs on all Americans. That is why McSame is wrong for America.
Posted 02:39 PM, 08/18/2008
Djoko Pritza
Re RCP Electoral Count: Obama 228 MCCaim 163 Toss-up states 147
Posted 02:39 PM, 08/18/2008
Gibba Mang
I would have more respect for the Anti Choice crowd if they showed some sense of caring for the child after birth. And I agree with gee that life's difficult decisions are not always black and white. Unfortunately the religious kooks in the GOP want to force their beliefs on all Americans. That is why McSame is wrong for America.
Posted 02:36 PM, 08/18/2008
bon
Djoko Pritza: I am not saying you are a "defeatist or a traitor". On the other hand many on this very post and Mr. Polman himself are calling people who support McCain ignorant and stupid. I am arguing with them, you are arguing with straw man that exists only in your mind. There is a very clear difference.
Posted 02:35 PM, 08/18/2008
Djoko Pritza
Hey, jwad, good point about Bush be a faux uniter and your warning that we not be fooled again. I hate to remined you (not really) that McCain supported Bush policies over 90 percent of the time.
Posted 02:33 PM, 08/18/2008
George Tomezsko
"All told, I doubt that anti-abortion voters were drawn to Obama's cerebral ruminations." An understatement to be sure, but nonetheless well put, Mr. Polman! Well put! Just one change, though. I would replace the phrase "cerebral ruminations" with "vacillations and obfuscations."
Posted 02:32 PM, 08/18/2008
chrissmith
It's so funny watching the liberals trying to spin Obama's poor performance. McCain clearly won. His answers were received much better by the audience.
Posted 02:30 PM, 08/18/2008
gee1971
You'd think after eight years of absolute concise decision making that has gotten us nowhere, where the world was viewed by the most powerful man in the world as right-wrong, good-evil, black-white that the people of this country would have learned there are few simple problems and fewer simple solutions. Is he going to have to be decision when making a decision? Absolutely, but at least he is demonstrates and ability to examine the problem in full. When you rush to judement and deal with absolutes and quick decision making, failing to considerer all of the consequences, what do you get? Iraq!
Posted 02:30 PM, 08/18/2008
jyoders19
McCain's straightforward, honest answers showed that he is a man of strongly held beliefs. Obama came off as nothing more than a politician and his evasions conjured up memories of John Kerry. Saying that any question on the issues is "above my paygrade" is a huge mistake when you're running for the highest office in the land.
Posted 02:25 PM, 08/18/2008
Shabba Rommel
OBAMA = "USSA" aka...United Socialist States of America.
Posted 02:25 PM, 08/18/2008
Grill
"It's 2008 and we are still debating abortion? I don't favor abortion, but I do not want the government involved in any of my medical decisions for me or my family. Look at what happened with Terri Schiavo and you will see the foolishness of their narrow minded ideology." So when should teh government get involved with what is happening with your family? Should you be able to beat your kids until their bones break without "government intervention" as long as you do it in the quite of your own home? Should you be able to leave your 3 day old daughter in a dumpster to die without "government intervention?" It is amazing how many very smart people have been duped and brainwashed by the Orwellian logic that a human being 4 months into development in utero is somehow just a trash heap of tissue that can be sliced into by stainless steel instruments, vaccumed out and then thrown away like the second half of eaten cheesesteak.
Posted 02:22 PM, 08/18/2008
Djoko Pritza
Hey, falcon and jwad, why did McCain, when sensing trouble, immediatelty turn to Rovian acolytes?
Comment removed.
Posted 02:19 PM, 08/18/2008
Djoko Pritza
atp2007 -- amen to that!
Posted 02:18 PM, 08/18/2008
jjfalcon35
Obama comes from an us against them mentality. Just read his books and listen to the kind of rhetoric he sat through every Sunday for 20 yrs. He voted 100% in favor of the most left wing positions, except FISA of course in the middle of the Presidential campaign.Obama as uniter is just Hollywood-Oprah like marketing intended to win political power
Posted 02:17 PM, 08/18/2008
atp2007
Obama has to learn what the media learned years ago, don't try to explain or discuss a complex issue with the American people. Don't try to make them think or question, give them a pithy response that can be quoted easily and sounds definitive even if the issue is not one that can be definitive. And even if, like McCain's short answers e.g "life begins at concenption", the easy to remember answer is inconsistent with your actual policies. Take a position, keep it simple, repeat it a lot and you become a Leader, well at least until your policy becomes a total disaster. McCain gets away with holding a "tough and direct" position on Russia, which is all bluster like his Idol (W), even though there is nothing he can actually do to back the stand up. As DeTouqeville said many years ago, you never can go wrong underestimating the crassness of the American people.
Posted 02:16 PM, 08/18/2008
jwad56
Djoko Pritza you make a great point about a uniter but this country isn't going to be tricked again. Remember Bush said he was a uniter. Obama is certainly no uniter.
Posted 02:16 PM, 08/18/2008
jwad56
Djoko Pritza you make a great point about a uniter but this country isn't going to be tricked again. Remember Bush said he was a uniter. Obama is certainly no uniter.
Comment removed.
Posted 02:13 PM, 08/18/2008
Talvenada
Stop making unsupportable statements unless you can back them up, unless you want all your posts to be just pure conjecture on your part............................ TOM WILM., I've seen Obama is a Muslin, a terrorist supporter, will ruin this country; and you greeted it with silence. So, are you saying the right has no conjecture, or it's acceptable conjecture?
Posted 02:09 PM, 08/18/2008
Djoko Pritza
Hey, bon, I like this quote from you: "Liberals of all stripes decided years ago that anyone who disagrees with them is either malicious or an idiot." One could as easily say that neocons and extremist Repubs of all stripes decided years ago that anyone who disagrees with them is either a defeatist or a traitor. We need a candidate who will unit this country, not continue, even exacerbate, the crippling devide. More Rove anyone?
Posted 02:06 PM, 08/18/2008
Talvenada
TOM WILH., Sorry, but McCain is quick to anger, quick to strike, no? Your posts sound like this or that is wrong w/ Obama, and that equals a slightly flawed McCain. Well, he is a RINO !! Other than that, he has few or no flaws, yes?
Posted 02:01 PM, 08/18/2008
Talvenada
LAST PUBLICAN: Vote McCain. Sounds fair and balanced to me!! What does Rush say? Levine? Coulter? Hannity? Rove? Rice? Bill-o? ..................TOM WILM., Can I take it that you are for pre-emptive strikes?
Posted 01:50 PM, 08/18/2008
jjfalcon35
realclearpolitics have 275 for Obama based on an old poll that gave him Indiana (11 electoral votes) by 1 pont. The only way he has a chance there is if he selects Bayh as VP. He even lost the state against Hillary. There are a lot of undecideds who may want to vote for a Democrat but do not like Obama. Obama needs to turn McCain into a more unacceptable choice than himself and has failed on that so far. Just being a Republican or Bush 3 obviously have not worked.
Posted 01:37 PM, 08/18/2008
bon
Djoko Pritza: I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but you should check the electoral vote math at RCP more frequently. Check the "no toss up states" option, and you will see McCain at 263 and Obama at 275. The states McCain is advertising in are trending heavily McCain. (This, at the same time that Obama is spending millions in Florida and North Carolina with nothing to show for it. McCain has not spent a cent in either state.)
Posted 01:36 PM, 08/18/2008
jjfalcon35
Go to realclearpolitics, 538.com and pollster.com and see what is going on in the electoral college. McCain has gained steam in the last few weeks with Florida Ohio Nevada Missouri Colorado Virginia moving his way. Kerry was doing better than Obama this time 4 yrs ago on the electoral college. Obamas slight lead in national polls comes from double didit leads in CA , NY, IL, MA, CT, NJ
Posted 01:26 PM, 08/18/2008
Djoko Pritza
If I voted on the basis of the "debate" Saturday night, I'd vote for McCain. But I not concerned that McCain is stronger with the anti-abortion forces. That is how it was going in, and how it will be from here on out. Obama will be stronger with the pro-choice people, many of the crucial women's vote. I'm still willing to bet that Obama will rout McCain. He has much more decisive leads in projected electoral voting than nationwide popular polls. It's way early. People are not focused yet. He will have tons more money for the fall campaign. And he'll learn from this very convenient warm-up to the face-to-face debates. One for McCain. Stay tuned.
Comment removed.
Posted 01:23 PM, 08/18/2008
JLB
Tom - Point taken regarding the speed with which decisions need to be made in the information age - but just a quick question for you: Of the topics discussed in the forum the other night, which do you think are likely to be the topic of one of those pressing "3 AM" emergency calls? Morality? Abortion? The existence of evil? I'd suggest that the forum was set up to be an opportunity for the voters to see the DEPTH of the candidate's thinking. Obama rambled, no doubt. And McCain consistently fell back on his "talking points" - even when reminded NOT to do so by Pastor Warren. There are certainly quick decisions that need to be made by a President - just as there are ones where you'd prefer that the President put some real thought into them - and I certainly didn't get the impression that long-range thinking was exactly Senator McCain's strong suit.
Posted 01:15 PM, 08/18/2008
thelastRepublicaninPhilly
Talvenada, America will be FAR greater off with McCain as president then Obama. Obama doesn't think before he acts, he says something, realizes that people didn't like it then issues a few statements indicating, "what Obama meant to say". Every day more and more people are realizing that Obama is nothing but hype, and speeches; "America needs a president that is bigger then their speeches." Obama is completely wrong when it comes to matters of security (you know those Commander in Chief responsibilities) such as military, foreign relations, terrorism. Obama is wrong on economy, his raising taxes and windfall profits schemes will cause even more damage to the economy. Obama isn't even good on character issues with his associations with Wright, Ayers, Rezko..., his far left opinions on abortion and his unwillingness to take a firm stance on any voting issue by only voting "present". I actually do agree with McCain on many issues and have been a fan since 2000. He is the right man for the job we need right now!!! VOTE MCCAIN!!!!!!
Posted 01:13 PM, 08/18/2008
tom - wilmington, de
Actually, the exact quote on evil was "we see evil everyday on the streets of American cities", Obama never said anything about abused children in households. Why was that quote distorted in the post? Anyone have any ideas? Perhaps because he said "evil existed in America"? As for Talvenada, there is a difference between thinking before acting and hesitating before acting. Obama hesitates, and that is bad in a president. Also, McCain has never indicated he wanted a draft (where Obama is increasing the size of the military but never says how he will do this), he would not have bombed Iran and would not have gone to war with Russia. Stop making unsupportable statements unless you can back them up, unless you want all your posts to be just pure conjecture on your part.
Posted 01:05 PM, 08/18/2008
thelastRepublicaninPhilly
tom - wilmington, de, I'm so glad that you mentiond the Clarence Thomas comment from Obama. I wanted to make sure that someone said it if Polman was going to try to not mention that as well. I was reading in the Wall Street Journal that Obama would not have voted for Clarance Thomas for the Supreme Court because he was "unqualified". The attached article poses the question perfectly; if Justice Thomas was unqualified for the Supreme Court, how can Obama possibly be qualified to be president? http://online.wsj.com/article/SB121901817146948231.html?mod=opinion_main_review_and_outlooks
Posted 01:04 PM, 08/18/2008
tom - wilmington, de
I loved how the MSM tried to say McCain had been listening to Obama, as Andrea Mitchell did yesterday on Meet The Press, and CNN did during the day yesterday. Of course, since McCain did better than Obama, he must have cheated...it could not have been because of the candidates themselves.
Posted 01:03 PM, 08/18/2008
Talvenada
JLB, We seem to be in the minority. Obama wants to think B4 he acts, while w/ McCain we get action swift and sure. We would have already bombed Iran, be at war w/ Russia & started a draft for the wars yet to be started. We've got to show the world what it means to do something WE don't like. Well, 2 comments for Obama, 3 comments unsure of Obama, and the balance of 16 AGAINST Obama. Come on Publicans what does that say? 8 more years of what? Go ahead, tell me how great things will be for you w/ McCain? How those it won't be great for don't deserve consideration?
Posted 01:02 PM, 08/18/2008
tom - wilmington, de
jwad56....does your friend consider herself to be a "low information voter", and what, exactly, makes her a "low information voter"? Obama also caught himself when he nearly said he would not have nominated Clarence Thomas because he lacked the experience for the Supreme Court. It seems whenever he goes off his "change and hope" stump message and needs to get specific he really has problems. It will be interesting to see how he does in the debates, and it is easier to see why he balked at the town hall formats with McCain. Finally, to the "talking point detective", then I suppose you never voted for a Democrat candidate who appeared in a church pulpit during a campaign, or for a candidate who was endorsed by the Black Clergy in Philadephia or any other city, or for that matter, probably never voted!!!!!!
Posted 01:00 PM, 08/18/2008
bon
TSRP: Did you see his campaign backtracking on his accusation that the NRLC lied about his abortion record? Obama's people are now claiming he was distracted, or some such garbage. A video of a presidential candidate indigently accusing other of lying, and in doing so telling a lie himself, is pretty priceless.
Posted 12:52 PM, 08/18/2008
thelastRepublicaninPhilly
Let's be clear on this Obama is WAY WAY to the left on abortion. Look at the video clips where he would deny medical care to babies that survie abortions. You can also read some of the following articles. I nearly hit the roof when Obama supporter Mark Lamont Hill said Jesus would be "more progressive" then Obama on abortion. What is he nuts!?! http://www.nysun.com/national/obama-facing-attacks-from-all-sides-over-abortion/84059/ http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/01/17/politics/main2369157.shtml http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1207159750412&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull
Posted 12:47 PM, 08/18/2008
bon
jmc: It is the "What's the Matter with Kansas" frame of mind. Liberals of all stripes decided years ago that anyone who disagrees with them is either malicious or an idiot. Obama and his followers refuse to even recognize the possibility that an informed voter may support a decisive, experienced moderate for president over a radical who is only a few years removed from the state senate.
Comment removed.
Posted 12:42 PM, 08/18/2008
jwad56
b.atkinson - I don't think that is elitist. Calling people uninformed doesn't mean anything other than that they are uninformed. Thankfully the people that are informing themselves are rejecting Obama in greater and greater numbers.
Posted 12:42 PM, 08/18/2008
mskimberley
When you're President of the United States of America - NOTHING is 'above your pay-grade'...
Posted 12:41 PM, 08/18/2008
thelastRepublicaninPhilly
Who exactly are "low information" voters? Are they the bitter, gun clinging, bible thumbing folks? Or do you consider them low information because they don't support your candidate?
Posted 12:38 PM, 08/18/2008
jwad56
Yeah thelastRepublicaninPhilly and why can't he hold his head up straight? I was beginning to think there was something wrong with my tv.
Comment removed.
Posted 12:36 PM, 08/18/2008
thelastRepublicaninPhilly
How many more times is Obama going to say, "you know"? He sounds like he is fumbling for words; like a deer in the headlights.
Posted 12:32 PM, 08/18/2008
jmc
Why is it that if you prefer a Presidential candidate to give clear, concise and unambiguous answers to questions about their core beliefs, you are categorized, in the most condescending way possible, as a "low information" voter? Barack Obama can't give a direct answer to a direct question so, according to Dick, it's the voters who have the problem. My nuanced analysis of Dick's column is this: he's worried. Obama is underperforming in what should be a cakewalk election for Democrats, and he sounds like a babbling fool under direct questioning. You see, I figured that out all by myself.
Posted 12:28 PM, 08/18/2008
yobill626
Obama's "Gore 2000 disease" is no longer in remission. You can't be "all things to all people" & win. Citizens, even low information ones, are just too suspicious of candidates who don't take a stand. Unfortunately, in these types of forums, too much information can overwhelm your point. Politically, its OK to either be for or against abortion (there are voters on both sides). Even though the debate forum is one more in tune with Republican viewpoints, he would have come out better if he was more direct.
Posted 12:27 PM, 08/18/2008
Gibba Mang
It's 2008 and we are still debating abortion? I don't favor abortion, but I do not want the government involved in any of my medical decisions for me or my family. Look at what happened with Terri Schiavo and you will see the foolishness of their narrow minded ideology.
Posted 12:25 PM, 08/18/2008
doorspj24
"Obama fan" I guess you agree that he's nothing but a celebrity.
Posted 12:11 PM, 08/18/2008
tom - wilmington, de
Visceral works because in today's high tech world decisions need to be made more quickly and decisively. A lot of times a leader does not have the time for nuance and elaborate speeches....just make a decision. Obama showed he may have trouble making those types of decisions. Also, long elaborate answers like he gave lend credance to the notion of his being an elitist...and no, that has nothing to do with wealth. I suppose it would have been difficult for him to say there that he voted three times to deny medical aid to a baby born alive from a botched abortion....thereby leaving them to die. That probably would not have gone over too well in a church.
Posted 12:11 PM, 08/18/2008
jwad56
Well put JLB - In other words just because you are unhappy with the last 8 years settle for the Obama mumbo jumbo who cares if it lacks any spine or substance.
Posted 12:00 PM, 08/18/2008
JLB
Yeah. Because the "visceral", act first, think later approach has been working so well for the last 8 years. Hooray for visceral! Bow down before the new "deciderer"!
Comment removed.
Posted 11:55 AM, 08/18/2008
ILikeIke
A president is a decisive decision maker, not a meandering philosopher. Obama's kool-aid drinkers, Polman included, should be hiding in shame after their Messiah's embarrassing display on Saturday. What you call 'cerebral' and 'nuanced,' I call evasive and free of substance. Does Obama believe in anything?
Posted 11:43 AM, 08/18/2008
yoda
I saw the "human rights" question and answer, and I have to agree that Obama made a mess of it. He needs to understand that he is trying to sell something - himself - to a lot of simple-minded people, and stop talking like he's a professor at one of the finest law schools in the country addressing a room full of brilliant scholars.
Posted 11:32 AM, 08/18/2008
jwad56
As someone who was watching this with a "low-information" voter I was not surprised when she asked about Obama's abortion response "What the heck is he talking about? Can't he just give a straight answer?" It's about time this column recognized what is going on here. Obama would make Muhammad Ali proud with all his bobbing and weaving. It would be nice if the democrats could offer a real alternative, someone actually worth voting for.
Posted 11:30 AM, 08/18/2008
bon
It wasn't a bad night for Obama. (The "above my pay grade" line was by far his worst moment.) It was a great night for McCain though.
190 comments | View All | Paginate Comments
About Dick Polman

Cited by the Columbia Journalism Review as one of the nation's top political reporters, and lauded by the ABC News political website as "one of the finest political journalists of his generation," Dick Polman is a national political columnist at the Philadelphia Inquirer. He is on the full-time faculty at the University of Pennsylvania, as "writer in residence." Dick has been a frequent guest on C-Span, MSNBC, CNN, NPR and the BBC. He covered the 1992, 1996, 2000, and 2004 presidential campaigns.

ARCHIVES

All commentaries posted before April 18, 2008, can be accessed at www.dickpolman.blogspot.com.