Thank you, Barney Frank
The Philadelphia Inquirer Blog - American Debate
Thank you, Barney Frank
Dick Polman, Inquirer National Political Columnist
Say what you will about Barney Frank (and, undoubtedly, you will). I'll simply note for the record that the congressman last night delivered a master class for his more timorous colleagues on how best to handle the town hall clowns. It's simple, really: Speak eloquently and slap them silly.
When some rebel without a clue showed up with a sign depicting President Obama in a Hitler mustache and demanded that Frank explain why he supported a "Nazi policy" on health care, his answer went like this:
"I'm going to revert to my ethnic heritage (Jewish), and answer your question with a question. On what planet do you spend most of your time?...As you stand there, with a picture of the president defaced to look like Hitler, and compare the effort to increase health care to the Nazis, my answer to you is, it is a tribute to the First Amendment that this kind of vile, contemptible nonsense is so freely propagated."
But the ignorant don't always get the message, even when slapped silly. This one still sought an answer to her "Nazi policy" question, so she asked it again. That was when Frank delivered the priceless clincher:
"Ma'am, trying to have a conversation with you would be like trying to argue with a dining room table, I have no interest in doing it."
Message to other congressmen: Really, now. How hard was that?
Comments (124)
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Here's the video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nYlZiWK2Iy8&feature=player_embedded— Red Wright-Hand- Comment removed.
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- 3 years ago when the Democrats were in the minority, Nancy Pelosi told a group of anti war protesters " I'm a fan of disrupters. There's nothing more articulate, elequent for a member of Congress than the voice of the constituents".................. Well Well! I guess it all depends on who's ox is being gored.
- Gee Xi, you have to reach back to the French Revolution to make a point? Our own revolution wasn't enough, when Louis XVI helped us to free ourselves from the British King? And I would imagine that Democrats are held more favorable at 49% than your posting would be.— 165Valley
- Comrade Xi back...way too long screenname - With a 49% approval rating during the worst economic crisis since the great depression, the Democrats look like they're in very good shape. What exactly is the current approval rating for the Republicans currently in office? Oh, sorry, I forgot that people like you only state facts that are convenient to your view. By the way, what was Bush's (W or GW, it doesn't really matter) approval rating when he left office?— woogie
- Good one Barney! Doubt it will shut up the clueless idiots however. Fear is a difficult thing to stop once it gets going. The republicans know this all too well. The feed off the fear of their fellow Americans. They know that if you repeat a lie often enough at least part of the population will think it's true.— James TL
- What will Polman do when he's unemployed in 6 months?— Kaiser Sosa
- Dick "forgot" to mention, cough cough that they were Lyndon Larouche supporters and he is a democrat. A Larouche wing nut Democrat with an Obama nazi poster. What is this world coming to? James TL, speaking of misinformed liars, dont post if you are ignorant about the topic.— tr88
- TR88: Shout 'em down! It's your country, and you want it back now!— Talvenada
- Health care is not a right under the Constitution and therefore should not be an institution under the federal government. Originally doctors were trained then went and opened up shop not unlike any other shopkeeper and peddled his wares to those who wished to pay for it and therefore made their living. It has now grown into a huge industry where insurance companies and the FDA have taken root and driven costs where they are today. If you want to make healthcare available and affordable to all then one issue is to institute TORT reform and reign in the insurance companies.— marty5261
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You forgot to add.....never actually answer a difficult question, mock the person asking.— rudytbone- Comment removed.
This type of smack down was long overdue. It's been often said that sometimes you have to bully a bully. These ignorant screaming thugs - have basically thrown down the gaunlet - nobody talks but us - if you do we will boo and scream at you. Folks have treated these thugs as if they really care about a debate, a discussion or an answer. THEY DON'T - so why allow them to disrupt meetings - that's not dialogue that's not freedom of speech - that is fascism. (do yourself a favor and read some books about the rise of the third reich - it wasn't done by providing health care - it was done by goon tactics in the streets (among other as worthy efforts) People have had enough of these goons. The republicans and their scare tactics are beginning to get very thin to the public. The repeat republican commentators on here will beg - no scream - to differ. Again - the richest country on earth having a large segment of its population going without healthcare is immoral and stupid. Stupid because as all providers know - preventative medicine is crucial to saving costs and having a doctor is the best way to guide folks to a healthy lifestyle. Oh, It's immoral for obvious reasons - if you don't know why - then there's a special place in hell for you.- marty5261, The right to LIFE, liberty and the pursuit of happiness are inalienable rights guaranteed in the Declaration of Independence. And if you don't think that provides the basis to create legislation to protect those rights (as universal health care does), then you can please tell all the black people in this country that you don't recognize their freedom from slavery because Emancipation is not outlined in the Constitution. We're one of the last Western countries who haven't adopted it, and everyone who has loves it.— leftcoastbuckeye
- Hey Comrade Xi--you're assuming that since approval numbers of Democrats dropped, that approval numbers of Republicans must've risen. That's not the case, champ . . . you probably should've stayed after class. And are you seriously angry b/c someone called out fools who think anyone that disagrees with them are "Nazis"? I'm not partial to either party particularly, but last I checked none of them were in favor of murdering Jews, Polish people, Romany, etc.— MaC130
- drhoagie, in pre-nazi Germany, nazis broke up meetings by shouts, intimidation, and threats. They declared that anyone not thinking as they do "communists." The attacked the government, they berated and beat Jews and any other non-Germans as unpatriotic. A small minority was able, through initmidation, to take over the government and force their will on the German people. Those nazi tactics souund a whole lot more llike those protesting at the town hall meetings than anything being done by President Obama or the Congressional Dems. All that's missing from these protestors are brown shirts. Maybe you can supply them.— mike l
- Woogie said - "What exactly is the current approval rating for the Republicans currently in office?" *** Not surprisingly, our dear Comrade Xi has opted out of this question. Allow me. Latest Pew: 29% - Latest Quinnipiac: 29% - Lateset Diageo/Hotline: 29% - Latest CBS/NYTimes: 28% - Latest Gallup: 30% - Even poor Fox can't generate a number better than 36%. Apparently the Comrade needs a little more reeducation on polls, polling data, and how the parties stand in relation to each other.— sully64
- "Speak eloquently and slap them silly. -- "I'm going to revert to my ethnic heritage (Jewish), and answer your question with a question. On what planet do you spend most of your time?" Is that the definition of "eloquent" within the Democratic Party, Dick? How about the Teamsters' definition, as applied to any Democrat having the temerity to not quietly fall in line behind His Majesty: "Centrist Blue Dog Democrats are "making a big mistake" by not backing President Obama's healthcare reforms, Teamsters President James P. Hoffa threatened Wednesday. "They're a whole new phenomenon," Hoffa said of the centrist Democrats who have been reluctant to back a healthcare bill containing certain taxes and a public (or "government-run") option for consumers. "A lot of these people we supported, and I think they're making a big mistake by not supporting the president," Hoffa added during an appearance on the liberal Bill Press radio show." http://briefingroom.thehill.com/2009/08/19/hoffa-blue-dogs-making-a-big-mistake-on-healthcare/ Instead of vague statements, perhaps Obama should put forth actual details...confusion and paranoia persists because nothing worthwhile has emanated from the White House.— Vandy
- Sully- From Real Clear Politics. Hardly a ringing endorsment of either party....RCP Average Approve30.3 Disapprove60.0 Spread -29.7 Generic Congressional Vote RCP Average Democrats43.3 Republicans42.5 Politics aside it would be unwise to think the eternal majority of Democrats is upon. The VA and NJ govenors races have to be of some concern with the Republicans in double digit leads. Most of this stuff is cyclical.
- Barney Frank is a bit of the left of my own views, but he is one funny guy. He'll say anything. I think its healthy to see politicians tell off loons. Huckabee is another guy that cracks me up.— yobill626
- Barney Frank should be in jail over the financial meltdown! He was either incompetent (along with Chris Dodd) or in cahoots while Frankin Raines, Jamie Gorelick and Barney's husband Herb Moses made millions loaning people money for houses that they couldn't afford to pay back! Now we will reward that incompetent Congress (yes Rep. Frank and Sen. Dodd) who failed miserably in their oversight of Fannie/Freddie and caused much of the financial meltdown, with the job of reforming healthcare! Priceless! I hope they don't do for the health industry what they did for the financial industry:) God help us all, if there is a God of course:)— NEPhilly
- Vandy- Jimmy Hoffa should be worrying about the 30,000 Teamsters that have taken massive wage concession at the nations largest LTL trucking company YRC. On top of the that YRC has stopped making payments to the Central States Pension Fund. Top 100 trucking companies from 1960 were all Teamsters( not including the small parcel sector) . Today there are 2- YRC and ABF and the former is teatering upon bankruptcy. Trucking is one of those " leading indicators" of the health of the US economy. Trust me when I tell you that the economy is not good. Unions put companies out of business. Plain and simple.
- Sully, if you just want to throw poll results back and forth, here's some that you liberals should keep in mind as you continue to misinterpret the 2008 elections and try to force things down America's throat: "Self-identified conservatives outnumber self-identified liberals in all 50 states of the union, according to the Gallup Poll. At the same time, more Americans nationwide are saying this year that they are conservative than have made that claim in any of the last four years. In 2009, 40% percent of respondents in Gallup surveys that have interviewed more than 160,000 Americans have said that they are either “conservative” (31%) or “very conservative” (9%). That is the highest percentage in any year since 2004. Only 21% have told Gallup they are liberal, including 16% who say they are “liberal” and 5% who say they are “very liberal.” Thirty-five percent of Americans say they are moderate."— Vandy
- NE Philly- I am with you. Barney is one of the more despicpable characters in our Congress. He was one of the causes of the financial meltdown. It is a travestly that the fools who belong to his congressional district keep electing him.
- Sully- You are delusional to pontificate the popularity of Democrats. we are 7 months into this grand experiment and quite frankly you should be concerned over the polling data. Republicans got taken to the wood shed cause they were big government liberals with R's in front of their names.
- smike, did you ever hear Rush play his 'Banking Queen' song about Rep. Frank, to the tune of Dancing Queen by ABBA? It is absolutely hilarious! That along with speeding up Obama and Pelosi's voices as they speak about healthcare so they sound like used car salesmen are awesome bits. Now that is good radio:)— NEPhilly
- smike said: "You are delusional to pontificate the popularity of Democrats." *** I didn't. Learn to read.— sully64
- Liberals you can report the bothersome bloggers on here to the Obama Regime at flag@whitehouse.gov. Just trying to be informative
- Vandy: "Sully, if you just want to throw poll results back and forth" *** No "just throwing," here, Vandy. Comrade Xi saw fit to post a specific poll number regarding Dems. He was asked about its counterpart regarding Pubs. He ran away, so I answered the question. Clearly you don't like that answer. Sorry 'bout that. Take it up with the American people.— sully64
- NEPhilly- I have. But at the same time it's sad that a man who had a major hand in our financial meltdown isn't being brought to justice.
- smike said: "Sully- You are delusional to pontificate the popularity of Democrats." *** I did no such thing, you illiterate dolt.— sully64
- smike, agreed!— NEPhilly
- "Without Public Option, Enthusiasm for Health Care Reform, Especially Among Democrats, Collapses".......headline from Rasmussen Reports.... Particularly amusing considering the super majorities the Democrats have in Congress. I will believe it when this actually collapses. Perhaps we should try the low cost reforms that Conservatives and Libertarians have been pitching. At least try them first before resorting to the budget busting solutions of these left wing lunatics.
- OK Sully, enough of the name calling. You lost the debate when you resort to that.
- You've not started a debate, smike. Nothing to lose.— sully64
- Yeah SMike, an openly gay Congressman of the (mostly) minority party representing the dreaded Liberal Cess Pool in Massachusetts took control when the True Blue Americans (Republicans) were in charge & lead us to a financial meltdown. Please. Can you stick to one rant at a time? I thought it was Obama who was leading us to financial ruin. Now you say its Barney? However, I agree with you in that because he has such a solid understanding of Finance, that is one of the things that makes him complicit. That & the fact that across the country, we elect far too few Congressmen that have no clue as to how the economy works (or simple finance, for that matter). Not too many can challenge him. That is how a guy like Barney gets power, too few others know what the heck he's talking about.— yobill626
- yobil626- Barney's hand in the financial meltdown is well documented. You are defending the indefensible.
- smike said: "Barney's hand in the financial meltdown is well documented. You are C." *** You really CAN'T read, can you? From yobill's post: "because he has such a solid understanding of Finance, that is one of the things that makes him complicit." Do you know what the word "complicit" means? Because it has nothing to do with "defending the indefensible."— sully64
- I'm not defending Barney. I'm telling you that he's just one guy in the House. Yes, he runs a strong committee, but the economic ignorance of many of the remaining Congressmen as well as the (well documneted) Bush-Cheney philosophy of "no rules" when it comes to the Market is also to blame.— yobill626
- Yobil626- Obama is self destructing in front of our very own eyes. Much easier to campaign than to actually be President. He and his regime and the congressional democrats played the American voter as fools. Page 425 thru 430 of the house version of the healthcare bill is about as clear as mud. Average people just don't feel like putting the stamp of trust on something that is really subject to interpretation. Obama wants to site there and tell people this won't be a single payer system? At this point I have to wonder if Obama even knows he has made contradictory statements on the matter or if he just so enamored with himself he didn't think anyone would call him on that. The fear from a large portion of the electorate is that a government bureaucrat will make our healthcare decisions based on wether we are like minded individuals. At that point we no longer have a Democracy. You want to call these people names and hurl your venom towards these people who protest at Town Hall Meetings then go ahead. It's doing wonders the approval ratings of the Obama regime. Democrats didn't want to have an honest debate on healthcare. They wanted to ramrod the bill through like they did with the Stimulus Package except this time you couldn't get away with it.
- I've already admitted more than once that I thought Obama has done a poor job with this bill. There is a lot of things to be concerned about regarding this bill, but if you think a lot of what you see at these Town Hall Meetings are simply individuals rising up seperately to speak their minds, you are sadly mistaken.— yobill626
- One last crack: What's up with these NRA backed groups enticing kooks bringing registered, loaded firearms to these Health Care Town Halls? These folks are whack jobs, pure & simple. I could understand it (but not agree) if the Town Hall Meetings were about restricting the 2nd Amendment, but Health Care? Nitwits...— yobill626
- Obama is no angel, however he is 300 times better than Bush. The reason our country is in the economic situation it is today is Bush and his republican cohorts selling the American working people down the river in the name of big business, namely oil and the banking industry to the rest of the world.— cook924
- the lisp is sexy.— 17MileDrive
- YO BILL: A gay Jewish male is a Nazi sympathizer? He had the audacity to confront a normal concerned citizen, how insensitive can The Dems be?— Talvenada
- While Barney's comments give the left some red meat to chew on, it shows an absence of class and profesionalism which is becomming more common among the democratic party. All that Barney did was act like the mob that he says he is not. There was no substance in anything he said. He simply fell to the gutter.— CD75
- Finally, someone played a little smack down. These nuts have only hardened my opinion that we need universal health care so that these people have access to free mental health services. Not every "opinion" is worthy of expression.— samsjr
- The fact that Dick and other liberals are celebrating Barney's scolding of a private citizen is the most telling of all. It is amazing how far the democratic party has fallen in just a few months. The gas tank is empty, but Obama still has 3 1/2 years to go.— CD75
- Those that think that Barney "won" that interchange with a private citizen cannot see the forest for the trees, and show that the demoncrats are destined to continue to cause their own slow decline.— CD75
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- I've been a huge fan of Barney Frank since I've been of voting age. I admire his liberal dedication and his willingness not to be dragged down to the idiocy of the right wing. I enjoyed reading about how he handled this fool. Now if only every citizen could tell every riht-wing blow hard the same thing. They're like spoiled children. All they want is attention and they don't care what they have to do to get it.— HandNik
- I'm surprised that ANYONE can understand Frank when he speaks... Just one I want to hear him say the phrase, "Thufferin' Thuccotash."— Nicher
- What Dick fails to mention is that the loony dressed to look like Hitler was a Lyndon LaRouche supporter...in other words, a DEMOCRAT. NOT a right-wing extremist...a DEMOCRAT!! Do some home work, Dick.— Nicher
- Nice work, Senator. These know-nothings deserve only ridicule.— Jeff West
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Arrogance seems to be in style!- Comment removed.
- I wonder if marty5261 would like the health care of the colonial days ? It worked like this if you got a serious illness you died. If you want that type of health care go live in a cabin in the woods with a first aid kit. Get real and grow up.— BigMel
- Republicans call people names = Evil. Democrats call people names = great.— whiplash240
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- Where else but in Massachusetts would you be represented by Mr. Ed the Talking Horse, Jabba the Hutt and Elmer Fudd?— pj katauskas
- yobil626- I agree with you. There were some idiots who brought firearms to the Town Hall meetings. Rather stupid considering the Secret Service isn't going to let anyone who does that within 3 football fields of the President. And to be fair Obama has been a supporter of the 2nd Amendment.
- Any openminded american knew that dems entire campaign was built on blame. Bush was vilified and blamed for things that occurred under a democratic controlled congress. Well, now Obama has been in for over 7 months!!! Blame runs its course. The emperor's new clothes are not very attractive after all.— vincemcd
- Gibba Mang- Nice index card talking point. Is Rahm Emanuel just pull your string and out spits the talking points. Considering you are behind by a wide margin in the VA and NJ governors races I would say it is just a smidge premature to deliver the eulogy of the Republican party. But you just too funny. LMAO. Your a little talking point doll for the Democratic party; pull your string and the index talking points are spoken
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- The only people applauding Barney Frank's actions in this town hall meeting are hard left, on each coast liberals, of which our favorite columnist is one! He won no new votes for healthcare in the middle of the country with his arrogant antics, but we should expect nothing less from Representative (not Senator, God forbid:) Frank! For all their smarts Barney Frank, Chris Dodd, Franklin Raines, Jamie Gorelick, Jim Johnson & Barney's husband Herb Moses, etc. led us all over the financial cliff by not regulating Fannie/Feddie (only congress was in charge of that, namely Rep. Frank's & Sen. Dodd's committees) as was their mandate and thinking of it as a federal democratic patronage program, all the while making millions in bonus' and salary's! Talk about private company's being greedy, they at least admit it:) These folks violated the public trust, made themselves millions of dollars of taxpayer money and got off scot free! There should be an investigation, but what do we do, try to reward them with control over healthcare too?!? It would be comical if it wasn't so expensive:)— NEPhilly
- Interesting the pols try to spin objections to heathcare "reform" as crazy and not worth the time and energy of a response. Specter said recently that the divergent opinions of the American people on this issue are "not representative" of the majority view on healthcare. So, they choose not to listen or declare as irrelevant, people who do not drink the Obama Kool Aid and march lock step to taking yet one more choice away from the American people, to choose their own doctors and the ways and means of addressing their health issues. Who wants or needs socialism in any of it's many insidious forms?— trainrdt
- gphilly- it is no more disgusting that democrats calling Bush, Hitler. That is the problem is all this squabbling is that it comes around to bite you eventually. Democrats spent 8 years being disrupters, protesters and calling President Bush every name in the book. It is called a dose of your own medicine. If we are going to be truly intelectually honest about this, Bush was trying to liberate 50 million people of tyranny. Comparing him to Hitler was very unfair. Obama is trying to incrementally move towards government running our healthcare. A major power grab. While a comparison to Hitler is a strech the similarity is that in both regmines centralized state power was at the core.
- Gphilly- Bottom line is that Democrats can dish it out but the cannot take it. Much of the same tactics democrats used against Bush are now being employed against them. Your whining about this is hilarious.
- swedesboromike- Why would you go after an Obama supporter for repeating "talking points"? One thing that is abundantly clear right now is the Democrats have NO organized "talking points". The Republicans and their "media" hacks have always been the masters of this: staying on message. Just look at the "Town Hells". It's easy for me to make fun of Republican "talking points" or the blind loyalty to puppeteers like Hannity, Limbaugh, or Beck, but frankly I'm jealous of their current organization and their undying resolve to kill Health Care reform. If Obama stuck to his initial ideals, the Republicans would filibuster and be left holding the bag while the uninsured numbers continue to climb.— pagoda
- I see all of the Republican cowards are out in force with their Glenn Beck talking points. Why do they hate America?— chasing history
- I love it. Thank you, Barney.— Jen D
- "Priceless clincher"? Dick Polman apparently doesn't get outside of UofP much. What a surprise that he thinks clown Frank is some sort of discussion game-changer. Both classless and think they are better than the masses.— prov1322
- chasing, a GOP President isn't the one going around the world apologizing for everything America has done it its past! A GOP President isn't the one going to rip up our healthcare system in favor of a govt. run program! And make no mistake, the American people learned from their mistake in the 2008 election of taking this President's word for it. He, Nancy Pelosi, etc. are after nothing less than a 'one-payer' system that has already proved less than effective in other countries and gives the federal govt. increasing control over individual citizens lives! I wouldn't trust this federal govt. running a lemonade stand, let alone all of healthcare, have all my health information and make my healthcare decisions for me based on some IRS-like schedule. Haven't they proved their incompetence enough?— NEPhilly
- It is times like this that I fully understand the purpose of the electoral college....to prevent a country from being ruled by the angry, utterly clueless, misinformed mob. While we live in a democracy, thank god our forefathers had the insight not to let the fickle views of a public of misinformed, uneducated idiots to rule the rest of us blessed with the ability of cognitive thinking, reason and rational thought.— djacobs5582
- I know I said I was jealous of the Republican ability to stay on message, but I still don't know why their "message" is so contemptible. I usually can predict their moves and understand the playbook, but having your minions running around with Hitler posters only creates batting practice pitches for sluggers like Barney Frank.— pagoda
- Pagoda...not even a good try. The Hitler/Nazi woman at the Frank event was a DEMOCRAT. Try to understand that.— prov1322
- What is truly disgusting is that the Republican oligarchs have convinced a group of frightened, working class white people that they actually care about them. They use their fear and xenophobia to pit them against bogeymen such as socialism, communism and other ethnic groups. I know these people. It is so sad that they vote against their own self interest because they do not know any better.— mxlplk
- chasing, the people that are protesting are Americans, just like you! During GWB's 8 years in office, the smears, the names and the hatred for that man was apparent from everyone on the left. Yet it was patriotic to protest (see SS reform) & question govt. actions, but now when there is a dem president it all of the sudden is nazi-like (and Nancy Pelosi brought it up) and wrong! Let me get this straight, if you disagree with this President on any issue, you are 'misinformed, uneducated idiots' or a 'nazi' or an 'angry mob', is that correct? Also, the people protesting don't want anyone to pay for their healthcare, they are going to pay for it themselves yet somehow to you they are 'self indulgant, me first, money grabbing schlubs.', is that the case you are making? Both sides of the political divide love our country, we just have different views of how to run the govt. and how much control it should have! If you have the votes in congress and the backing of the American people your policies pass, if you don't have the votes then it doesn't! That is called democracy, live with it:) You don't have to vilify the opposition, who are all American citizens, to pass your agenda, the power of your argument should!— NEPhilly
- Frank is dirty and Polman applauds him. Tells you all you need to know. But then again what would I know, I only hold 2 degrees! I hope people wake up to the fact that the liberal left wants to hi-jack this country and turn it into a dictatorship, with guess who leading?— gerryb
- prov1322- So you don't think the Linden Larouche people are being stoked by the right-wing noise machine? There are dozens of posts on the web from educated Republicans begging their fellow pubs to stop bringing Hitler posters to town hall meetings. These minions have no idea what they mean, just love the community spirit created by Beck and Limbaugh.— pagoda
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- pagoda...usual tactic...misrepresent the facts and then still try to spin it in the face of truth. Was the moveon.org daily email for your talking points late today? Spin on.— prov1322
- Yep - and I wonder if Bush and Cheney should be in jail for their despicable lies to the American people justifying attacking Iraq. How many of our soldiers and sailors died, how many trillions spent, how many Iraqi civilians caught up in the war? Sure that's ok because they wrapped themselves and the flag and talked about God a lot - incredible.
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- prov1322- Never been on MOVEON, maybe you can tell me about it sometime. Again, why argue that I misrepresent the facts when the whole Republican Health Care attack plan is based on misrepresentation of facts? There is plenty of controversy available in the concept of Universal Healthcare, but yet the main tactic chosen in the "talking points" is based 100% on a lie created be a high-paid conservative propagandist. Once again, Obama does not want to uthenize your elders through established "death panels".— pagoda
- Some proof that our President hid his true liberal leanings during the primary season and even chastised his rivals over it:) ***What was the big news during the campaign? In the Democratic primary, it was the notion that all adults should be required to have health insurance, a concept known commonly as the individual mandate. Candidates Hillary Clinton and John Edwards' health plans both included the individual mandate. Obama's did not, and he often highlighted this difference, particularly claiming that Clinton would force people to buy coverage whether they could afford it or not.*** http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/promises/promise/518/create-public-option-health-plan-new-national-heal/— NEPhilly
- From the same article; ***Fast forward to July 2009, and Obama switched position with little fanfare, saying he now accepted the individual mandate. From a policy point of view, it's among Obama's most significant reversals from the campaign. Yet we seen virtually no protest of his switch, at least thus far. (If you've seen any, e-mail us at truthometer@politifact.com) We rated his move a Full Flop on our Flip-O-Meter.***— NEPhilly
- pagoda...not arguing...just pointing out your inability to 1) state factual information about events and 2) stay on point when presented with the truth. BTW, dictionary.com can be your friend.— prov1322
- This is ridiculous. I will take Frank's advice and stop arguing with a dining room table. The floor is yours and I await your editorial advice.— pagoda
- Barney Frank is just the latest in a series of left-wing public officials whose arrogant pomposity merely proves the intellectual vacuity of himself and his cause. He and his party are now hurtling toward political oblivion and, therefore, I call upon all real Americans to hasten that journey. In the meantime, as the sun sets upon him and his ideological predilection, let's flood his office via letters, phone calls, faxes, and e-mailed with our outrage over his remarks. One more point: I suggest that his remark that "I'm going to revert to my ethnic heritage..." was motivated by more than a little anti-Christian bigotry.— George Tomezsko
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- That demonstration by Barney Frank just proves what an idiot he is. His dictatorial, combative style won't help to pass anything. Why the voters keep supporting him is amazing.— mlinburn09
- George Tomezsko: There was no anti-Christian bigotry. Frank's attempt at self deprecating humor had to do with the stereotype that Jews always answer a question with a question.— mxlplk
- "Thank you, Barney Frank" -- for what? I don’t think that Obama is Hitler; I don’t think that anyone has proposed or is going to propose “death panels” or access to anyone’s bank account as part of a “health care reform package; and I don’t think that it advances the common interest to disrupt public meetings. I also don’t think that Barney Frank advanced any good cause by his rhetorical fireworks display – actually by his superficially clever but actually intellectually empty display. My sense is that there are people at these meetings and elsewhere who are genuinely frightened and are trying to protect themselves or others they care about. Perhaps there are other people who in a cynical way seek to exploit that genuine fear – but that there is genuine fear seems clear to me. And by no means is the fear felt only by “crazies”, as the not-at-all-helpfully dismissive term has it. Answering a frightened person’s question with a question may be – clearly in this instance it was – a good way to win applause from one’s own supporters. It is not a good way – it is an arrogant, stupid way – to respond to a frightened person. It is also a good way to suggest that you don’t really have a persuasive presentation to make on the merits of your own position. What would it have cost Frank to have asked the woman to come sit down next to him and have a conversation about her concerns, about what she wanted, what she feared, what in the provisions being discussed in Congress, and anywhere else to which Frank is privy, would provide what the woman wanted – or threaten to impose what she feared? To have invited such a conversation – for many, many “proponents of health care reform” to invite such a conversation -- is NOT “giving in to the crazies”. It is about providing leadership, as opposed to showing how well and cleverly one can put others in their place -- to what good end?— Hector
- pagoda...There's an old legal aphorism that goes, "If you have the facts on your side, pound the facts. If you have the law on your side, pound the law. If you have neither on your side, pound the table."...you and Barney knock yourselves out!— prov1322
- Hector, very well said. Frankly, both sides seem to have lost the ability to listen, converse and be fundamentally respectful and polite.— NigeltheMastiff
- I meant to post this link before. All these references to Nazis has inspired my favorite columnist Leonard Pitts to write a chilling piece reminding (or informing for the first time) people of just what the Nazis did. The link is here: http://www.miamiherald.com/living/columnists/leonard-pitts/story/1192888.html— NigeltheMastiff
- I guess stupid comparisons to the Nazis are what you get when you share a democracy with people who think the Devil buried the dinosaur bones to trick us into not believing in the Bible.— the stupid does burn
The insurance companies did not invent medicine, they do not train doctors or nurses. They do not build hospitals, they do not discover medical cures, they do not research disease, protect public health, manufacture critical medical supplies or advanced life saving advanced technology. All they do is stand between me and my doctor and take a percentage. A very big percentage. Our American style of capitalism has been elevated to the manipulation of finance to consolidate political power to determine the social order outside of the controls of the ballot box and defend the political power by claiming it is individual property, protected by constitutional guarantees. Of course, they fail to emphasize the power is accrued through legal instrumentality of the corporation which is a franchised derived from the government in the first place. When the private health insurers have grown to be a threat to not only the economic sector they have parasitically attached themselves to in order to charge the health toll, a private tax, but also the larger social order, their franchise has to be revoked. But we can not wait until this financial service provider collapses like their banking and insurance cohorts. With in a decade, a family will have to pay $25,000 over 2 times what it is charged today, and today, we are spending 18% of entire GDP on the health care sector. The insurance companies will make profits until businesses large and small drop this benefit and cause the insurance provider to go out of business. Our elected President who campaigned on this point and won with 67,000,000 Amercian votes. We will have an rational transition to a public, and eventually universal health care system, without the disruptions we are currently seeing with the collapse of the credit and banking sector. This is not Hitler or Lenin, it is a pragmatic American solution which is a hybrid or mixed economy.- Now Obama is seeking help from the liberal churches and their preachers. I thought liberals were for separation of church and state? I thought liberals hated Bush for his religiousness, now Obama is seeking help from members of the cloth? Support healthcare because God wants us to do it? Support healthcare and you are doing what God wanted you to do?— tom - wilmington, de
- Hector : she asked why he supported a "Nazi policy" on health care. How do you answer that? It's fine not to be dismissive of a frightened person’s question, but she wasn't actually asking a question. She was making a non-sensical point by asking a question. I have no idea what the Nazi position was on health care (I could guess), but it probably bears no relationship to anything that furthers any debate.... My basic problem is this. The basic Republican strategy to prevent this bill is two fold. Either completely make up lies about it (Death Panels, mandatory euthanasia, covers all illegals, makes private insurance illegal, subsidized abortion, the 'Health Choices Comissioner deciding your coverage, mandatory end of life counseling, etc.) or go to places intended for public discourse shout down the speaker, yell rhetorical questions, and exercise your first ammendment rights to the exclusion of everyone else... No one actually wants to debate the bill, or even reform in general. There's a lot in there I don't like. There's a lot to improve. But you get so hung up fighting with the fringe that nothing substantive actually gets discussed.— still_independent
- fernando, agreed that the insurance companies make too much money, but they are the ones taking the risk, like any insurance company! What do life insurance or car insurance comapnies produce? Nothing! I am for lower costs in healthcare as are most reasonable people. Portability, sign me up! Better access, yes again. A better way to provide poor people medical care other than emergency rooms, yes! Now the problem is getting there from here. 1) Lower costs-throwing a $1 Tril over 10 years at a problem is not my idea of lower costs. Mandating a $500 Bil cut in Medicare will result in lower services and less doctor's that take Medicare and will hurt seniors. The way to lower costs are free market, cross-state competition, tort reform & free market choices (buying the coverage you want, instead of a 1 size fits all plan)! 2) Portability-pass in the new law mandating the shifting of insurance responsibility away from companies and more to individuals. Companies will increase pay of people commensurate with their private coverage. Insurance companies will be mandated to let people buy insurance directly at the group price, with the choice of coverages, high deductibles, like car insurance. 3) Doctors-there are not enough primary care doc's to treat all these newly insured people. We need to waive student loans of doctors who promise to be primary physicians for at least 10 years & we need to cap lawsuit payouts at a fair and reasonable number! To think the govt. can do this is just silly in my opinion after it has proved so inept at so may things:)— NEPhilly
- Dear mxlplk: Your post that "Frank's attempt at self deprecating humor had to do with the stereotype that Jews always answer a question with a question" deserves a clarification: we both know he resorted to his "ethnic heritage" to belittle and humiliate the person speaking at that meeting. Needless to say, I stand by my statement. Since the ideology of the left is secular and materialistic, hostility to all things religious is never far from the surface (if only by implication) whenever one of their officials speaks...— George Tomezsko
- NEPhilly: there is no $500 B cut. Yet another oft repeated "fact" .— still_independent
- still, over to the next blog:) Join me! How are they proposing to pay the $1 Tri price tag? I thought half came out of Medicare cuts! Has that changed?— NEPhilly
- still_independent says "she asked why he supported a 'Nazi policy’ on health care" and asks, "How do you answer that?". Well, I would take the path suggested by a sage earlier commentator at 11:31 a.m.: Invite the woman to sit down next to you, say you don't think you're supporting a "Nazi policy on health care", but if there's something in the provisions you do support that she finds "Nazi"-like, you want to know what it is so you can repudiate it and join her in opposing it. "What is the 'Nazi' element that you see in what's being discussed?" I have no idea whether this approach, by this Congressman, to this person, on this day, would lead to a productive conversation. If it did, I have no idea how far reaching the benefit of a single, productive conversation would be. But I know how productive Frank's actual approach was -- it moved the ball backward. It did absolutely nothing to advance us towards health care. It provided a martyr, it provided further evidence of "liberal arrogance", and more reason to believe that “they” (those with power) are out to get those who are already frightened. I agree with still-independent that one can "get so hung up fighting with the fringe that nothing substantive actually gets discussed." I didn't suggest "fighting the fringe". I did urge that people not make assumptions that other people are "crazy" (or, pace DP, too "ignorant" to understand they've been "slapped silly" and so should desist), or that the statements they make in question form are not really questions but rather "a non-sensical point" framed as a question (and if it isn’t really meant as a question, so what? Why not respond substantively?). I did urge, and do urge, that those who support "health care reform" (or any other cause) out of what they perceive to be decency engage in discourse with the overwhelming number of their opponents who are no more crazy, "ignorant" (to quote DP's equally unhelpful comment) or unworthy of respect than are the proponents.— Hector
- z— James TL
- Thank you, Barney Frank. I have enjoyed his blunt talk before. We need more like him.— Observer1
- Barney Frank ELOQUENT?????? Maybe he can take the marbles out of his mouth long enough to explain why he spoke (ELOQUENTLY?) against oversight of Frannie and Freddie before it was too late.— lincoln2c
- Xi: to use the words of your hero Ronny Raygun, "there you go again". McConnell is the repuglican candidate in Virginia, not the democratic candidate; Creigh Deeds is the democratic candidate, and according to the latest polls he's trailing by single digits, not by double digits (but we Virginians are known for making up our minds at the last minute, and there's a large "undecided" group in those polls at this point). And yes, Virginia IS a blue state -- democratic governor, 2 democratic senators, majority democratic house members, majority democratic state senate... Oh, but don't let little things like FACTS get in the way of your usual reich wing spewings, Xi -- just next time, try to be a little less easy to refute...— The Dogfather
- Here is yet more evidence that the "slap 'em silly" and then cheer the slappers approach to "our" side of this issue is not only not helpful, it is recklessly harmful to finding a solution to an overwhelmingly important problem: http://www.nytimes.com/2009/08/25/health/policy/25georgia.html?hpw— Hector
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Cited by the Columbia Journalism Review as one of the nation's top political reporters, and lauded by the ABC News political website as "one of the finest political journalists of his generation," Dick Polman is a national political columnist at the Philadelphia Inquirer. He is on the full-time faculty at the University of Pennsylvania, as "writer in residence." Dick has been a frequent guest on C-Span, MSNBC, CNN, NPR and the BBC. He covered the 1992, 1996, 2000, and 2004 presidential campaigns.
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