Are Timothy Geithner’s tax mistakes serious enough to derail his nomination as U.S. Treasury secretary? Has his failure to pay $34,000 in federal levies, over a four-year span, rendered him unfit for the critically important post in this time of economic crisis? Or, to put it in more colloquial terms, does his past behavior constitute a major scandal? Is it a deal-breaker? Or is this a passing squall that Geithner will ultimately weather?
Frankly, I have no idea how this episode will play out. But I can hazard a decent guess, based on the scandal criteria outlined below. Before proceeding, however, let’s pause for a moment and recap the basics:
Geithner, a career civil servant and Treasury bureaucrat, briefly detoured into the private sector and worked for the International Monetary Fund. At the IMF, the tax rules for American personnel are a tad tricky. The Americans are responsible for paying their own payroll taxes (that’s the levy – we all pay it - which goes to Social Security and Medicare). The IMF, which does not make contributions toward those taxes, repeatedly reminds its American employes to cough up the necessary bucks. Geithner did not. When the IRS discovered, in a 2006 audit, that Geithner had failed to pay his payroll taxes for 2003 and 2004, he quickly complied, paying the back taxes plus interest. And when Barack Obama’s transition team discovered last autumn that Geithner had also failed to pay his payroll taxes for 2001 and 2002, he again complied, albeit retroactively. All told, his back-tax tab (plus interest payments) totaled $43,200.
Now let’s go to the scandal criteria, which might help us determine whether this episode is ultimately perceived as a hiccup or a hemorrhage:
Can the misbehavior be summed up in simple language, for easy public consumption? Unfortunately for Geithner, the answer is yes. Tax policy is complicated, at least for us laypeople. But this episode can be encapsulated in a single sentence: “Obama’s Treasury nominee, the designated number one tax man, didn’t even pay his own taxes.” That kind of line is potential grist for populist outrage; witness this blast yesterday from Republican Sen. George Voinovich: "He may be a smart guy, but the average person on the street sees that he hasn't paid his taxes."
Coverups are often more damaging than the initial offense; in Geithner’s case, has there been a coverup? Mostly no. No, in the sense that the Obama team quickly confirmed on Tuesday that Geithner had erred in his past taxes. No, in the sense that Geithner himself has been personally contrite, ‘fessing up to any and all interested senators. On the other hand, Geithner didn’t exactly do a full mea culpa at the time of his ’06 IRS audit. Yes, he quickly came up with the back payroll taxes for ’03 and ’04, after the IRS discovered that he’d been remiss in those years…but he stayed mum about the unpaid payroll taxes of ’01 and ’02 – until the Obama transition team uncovered the same problem.
Has all the dirty laundry been hung already? Maybe not. Weird little incidents keep trickling out, like the fact (which trickled yesterday) that Geithner augmented the size of his dependent-care tax credit by listing the money he spent to send his child to sleepaway camp in 2001, 2004, and 2005. Under tax credit rules, sleepaway camp doesn’t qualify as an allowable expense. Meanwhile, on another payroll tax front, the Obama team keeps referring to Geithner’s “honest” and “innocent” mistakes – but (another trickle) we now know that Geithner had signed IMF paperwork formally acknowledging that the payment of the payroll tax was his responsibility. Which would appear to constitute at least some level of awareness. And is there more to learn?
Do the misdeeds seriously call into the question the person’s qualifications for the job? No. And this is where Geithner’s prospects for survival start to look better. Geithner is widely respected in the international and domestic financial community; when Obama first announced his nomination back on Nov. 21, the markets spiked by nearly seven percent. Geithner’s misadventures with the IMF tax rules might look a lot worse if we were living in peaceful, prosperous times; in those circumstances, Congress might feel it had the political luxury to beat him up or bounce him entirely. But today, Geithner is widely viewed as “mission critical.” Which brings us to the next question.
Does the offender have a political support network, sufficient to ensure survival? Apparently, yes. Geithner has strong support from an incoming president with a 70 percent approval rating, and some key Republican senators are making nice. Lindsey Graham yesterday called Geithner “uniquely qualified,” and said “these are not the times to think in small political terms.” John Ensign has endorsed the Obama line about "honest mistakes." Charles Grassley, ranking Republican on the Senate Finance Committee, which will question Geithner next Wednesday, hasn’t formally taken a position on the nominee, and he faulted Geithner for tax "sloppiness" - but he also said yesterday: “I don’t believe there’s any doubt about his qualifications.” Meanwhile, Republican strategist Kevin Madden wrote yesterday on the Politico website that “at a time of great economic anxiety and enormous challenges, Mr. Geithner’s reputation for competence has afforded him a bipartisan level of respect,” sufficient to overcome the tax episodes.
Timing is everything, in politics and in life. It’s hard to imagine that Obama will be denied his top economic adviser in the first days of a new administration, in the teeth of an economic crisis. And one might also ask whether the American people feel sufficiently scandalized by Geithner’s behavior, after all that has transpired on the scandal front these past 10 years, from Bill Clinton’s sex-trysting to George W. Bush’s truth-twisting. Given our current straits, I wonder whether Timothy Geithner’s sleepaway camp expenses have the power to shock.
Posted by Dick Polman @ 11:30 AM
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130 comments
You forgot "How many stones will the opposition be willing to cast?" criteria. (Sort of like yesterdays blog about Hillary.) Since the Obama nominations have begun, the opponents have pounced any every perceived impropriety and sounded every alarm. The problem is the general public seems to feel like the squeaky wheels are more like the Boy Who Cried Wolf than concerned citizens who have a valid beef.
in 2001, Linda Chavez was nominated by Bush to be Secretary of Labor. Later it was learned that she gave money to and allowed to live in her home an illegal immigrant named Marta Mercado. Ms. Mercado was seeking "sanctuary" from an abusive boy-friend, and the money and shelter Chavez gave was considered by her to be emergency assistance. Later, she was cleared by the FBI of any wrong doing. However, the scandal forced her to withdrawl her nomination. Does Geithner's "honest mistake" rise to that level or above? It is in the WSJ today that the IMF informed him in writing on several occasions that he was responsible for his FICA taxes. He is supposedly a boy genius, financial wizard, and the only person who understands TARP. Are we to believe that with all this mental acumen he did not understand the tax laws?
Considering the fact that the Obama team knew about this why didn't they nominate someone else for the job? Perhaps despite his 'honest mistakes'(I'm frankly not so sure they were honest) he is the best man for the job. It may now be too late to find another candidate. This doesn't bode well for our new president. Is finding someone without skeletons in their closet so difficult?
He probably is the financial wonder boy everyone seems to think he is. When people are privy to that kind of info they use it to their advantage, never planning that they may be asked to be Treasury secretary someday, and having to explain it. But this is a lot of baggage and past nominees have been forced out because of the appearance that it leaves. He may be out as fast as the others. The question for this blog is: RE our resident tax and numbers crunchers, Liberal and Tom. Do you guys have any skeletons in your closets that would cause us here to be embarrassed if either of you would be nominated to such a position?
As usual, tom_in_wilmington distorts the facts to fit his agenda. Chavez herself withdrew her nomination when it was revealed that she lied the FBI about knowing the illegal status, and tried to influence her whistle-blower neighbor to lie to the FBI and the media. As soon as the word broke that she was being questioned, Bush & Cheney threw her under the bus and leaked the remainder of their short list for the post as possible replacements. In additional and more likely beside that point, labor groups had organized a heavy opposition to her (she was very anti-union) and were pretty much at the point of success in blocking her when the Mercado issue broke. She most likely wouldn’t have been confirmed even without the Mercado issue and she and Bush/Cheney knew it, so it was a rather easy out for all of them. But, because Geithner is a Democrat, he’ll get the grilling of a lifetime, because we all know when it comes to any scandal IOKIYAR. I think he’ll get through rather easily, but if he doesn’t get confirmed, the country is worse for it, and Dems will make sure that the voters know who sunk him: bitter, partisan, obstructionist Repubs who want to those who are already hurting to hurt even more.
There's nothing that irks me more than the "No matter what he may have done, he's still qualified for the job" argument. Libs ran that argument to death with Bill Clinton, and it doesn't jive with the environment Obama says he wants to create. Accountability means accountability.
I could buy this a whole lot more if not for the fact that the IMF notified its American employees of their tax status, asked their employees to file forms every year on their liability, and paid their American employees a "gross up" for their tax liability based on their signed statemens, where they attest to the accuracy of said liablilty. This seems to be more than an "honest mistake" and smells more of outright tax evasion. Funny, Joe The Plumber is on this site referred to as a tax cheat for a mere $2,000, yet Geithner the financial wizard made an honest mistake about which he should have knowledge and is too important to hold to account.
jmc - Oh really? Just the entire Bush Adminstration has been accountable - what a total joke! Typical Repub hypocrisy. Geithner is very well qualified and no one but the bitter Repubs are making an issue out of what is considered a common mistake.
I don't buy the arugument that Geithner is petty much the only one who can do the Treasury job (if so, not even Gold could save America). He should be jettisoned and Obama should cut his losses and name someone else. The right wing will be howling about this for the next 20 years. What is it about rich people (sorry, SMike, I'm not going to define "rich") that they still try to cut corners and cheat when they don't have to. So, no, I don't buy the innocent-mistake argument either. I want the top tax person in government to be honest enough to pay his own d*mned taxes. That's a minimum requirement.
Nip....wrong. Chavez did not ask her neighbor to lie. She knew her neighbor would tell the truth...after all, the woman was a lawyer. The story was out that she asked the neighbor to lie, but was not so, as proven in the FBI investigation that she committed no wrong doing. Not even the NYT in its 2001 story intimated that Chavez asked her neighbor to lie, but that she told her neighbor to tell the truth when contacted by the FBI. I suppose you have a different source. What is that DailyKos link anyway? Labor was not in her corner due to her opposition to the minimum wage. As for accountability, it was Obama who ran a campaign calling for accountability and this has nothing to do with Bush. If Obama wants to hold his people accountable for their actions, this would be a good place to start...instead of saying Geithner is embarassed about the situation. This was not just an honest mistake. The IMF even grossed up his pay for his perceived tax liability, which he needed to notify them in writing under penalty of perjury. The IMF notified him in writing that he was responsible for his own taxes. How is this a common mistake when he signed off on it before receiving his "gross up" pay?
Pipe down, children. All this whining and tantrum-throwing is for naught - Geithner will be confirmed. He is the best person for the job (even most Repubs in Congress agree) and this no time for political posturing when the economy that Bush wreaked needs quick, expert action to prevent another great Depression. That is, unless you don't care about your jobs, homes, savings and retirements and those of your children and grandchildren.
Whether it was a mistake or not, no one on this board can say, one way or the other. In truth, the way I saw it, if he took those taxes to be paid and invested them, knowing he would eventually have to pay them when he got caught, he saw this as a money making opportunity to collect on the interest. I would have to know how much in penalties he accrued vs. how much he would have actually made, to know if this theory holds any water; but, it was my first thought.
Honest mistake or not, someone who supposedly understands finance shouldn't make such mistakes. If you get a tax bill why wouldn't you just pay it like everybody else does?
I can't believe there is no Dem qualified for this job that has paid their taxes. If this was a Repub the nomination would be gone already! Just because we are in a (Dem created:) financial crisis doesn't mean we should lower our standards. It sounds like the Dems are pulling a Cheney (right Tal) on this one!
Because Obama is an idiot and cannot vet, we do not have a Tresury Secretary during the worst economy since the 1930's. Good job B. Hussain Obama.
rallyrally: you are a partisan fool.
I object to anyone calling this economic crisis as 'dem created' The republicans have been in power for most of the last 8 years. They had much more to do with it's creation. Both sides are to blame but come on! The republicans had all the power during Bush's tenure (except for the last two years when I have to admit the dems dropped the ball with Bush's 'help'). Has Joe the Plummer paid his taxes yet? Maybe he should be considered for Tres Sec. (oh my! I just threw up thinking about the prospect!)
I object to anyone calling this economic crisis as 'dem created' The republicans have been in power for most of the last 8 years. They had much more to do with it's creation. Both sides are to blame but come on! The republicans had all the power during Bush's tenure (except for the last two years when I have to admit the dems dropped the ball with Bush's 'help'). Has Joe the Plummer paid his taxes yet? Maybe he should be considered for Tres Sec. (oh my! I just threw up thinking about the prospect!)
Richardson, Geithner, and Chavez. If Obama cannot vet, how can he be President?
Richardson, Geithner, and Chavez. If Obama cannot vet, how can he be President?
Charlie Rangel did not pay his taxes too. What is it about dems and failing to pay taxes?`
JTL, i'm teasing, but just slightly! Let me take a whack at explaining my thinking. 1)Subprime mortgages were the main cause of this crisis, correct. 2)The CRA which encouraged subprime mortgages is a Dem created law(Carter/Clinton). 3)Fannie/Freddie are Dem created companies that exacerbated the subprime mess. They are only regulated by congress, don't have to file financial statements, Barney Frank said they were fine in Sept of this year and now we are on the hook for $200 billion for their bailout! The last two years is when all this stuff hit the fan. JTL you are reasonable and I enjoy your posts, explain to me how Bush is even partly responsible for this economic disaster, other than being the President.
NEPhilly, you are fighting a losing battle. Bush is to blame for everything the last 8 years, don't you know that? He is even responsible for my son spilling his milk this morning because he is still president. Now, in 12 months, when inflation is high and unemployment is still high and this non-stilumus package has failed to stimulate the economy, when Henry Waxman passes his climate bill to combat global warming (what a joke), and when taxes are set to increase and the economy is still in the tank, it will still be Bush's fault even though Dems control Congress and the White House. If, Heaven forbid, we are attacked again after Holder refuses to waterboard, GITMO is closed and the NSA program is scrapped, it will also be Bush's fault, even though Dems control everything. Obama can do no wrong, and for his entire term everything will be Bush's fault. Remember, like Chris Matthews said, it is his (and the entire media's) job to make sure Obama does not fail.
tjhaol, if nothing else the next 4 years should be interesting! Don't worry the Dems will overreach, they always do:) Will there be a GOP rebirth in 2012 (maybe 2010) when they do, you betcha:)!
Don't know if you ever noticed NEPHILLY but I don't usually post about economic matters because I don't pretend to understand it enough. All I know is the facts are the Republicans have been in power for most of the past few years ( they had control of Congress from 1994-2006). By the way, I don't blame Bush for this. I know it is mostly the fault of Congress. From my limited knowledge it seems to me that lack of oversight (or regulation) is the fault of it. So, whoever eliminated the regulation is to blame.
JTL, I understand where you are coming from! I appreciate your honesty. It is hard for the ordinary citizens, like you and me, to understand it all. It just burns me up that no one will pay the price for this economic meltdown, Repub or Dem, and me and you will have to foot the bill:(
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James TL has brought up an issue that illuminates my problem with the Geithner tax case. Many years ago, when my kids were small, we employed a housekeeper who was an immigrant with an entry visa that had expired. As a tax lawyer, with a possibility (never altogether realized) of having some kind of high-visibiility job some day, I decided that i was going to make sure I followed the law precisely. i spent half a day or more researching the legal issues, and thereafter filed all the papers and paid all the taxes I thought were necessary. Some of these annual forms took hours to complete, in order to report very small tax liabilities, sometimes less than $10. I communicated with the housekeeper's immigration lawyer to make sure she was following appropriate procedures to renew her visa. Now my point is, if I, a nobody, bothered to do this, why can't all these fat cats do likewise? Especially since, unlike me in those days, they seem to have enough money to hire a specialist accountant or lawyer to do it for them. As I have come to know more of these high-profile guys, I'm convinced that the issue is arrogance. They just don't think it's worth their time to bother with small tax liabilities (and to these guys, $30,000 is pocket change). They figure if the IRS catches up with them, they'll pay, and that's that. This is the attitude of most of the wealthy elite in this country, and it's a symptom of the wrong turn in our financial and business leaders' thinking that has led us to the current economic crisis.
I don't know if these were 'honest mistakes' or not. What I think everyone knows it that our tax laws are so convoluted that even totally honest CPAs and other tax experts can't always figure out how they apply to people with complex investments and expenditures. These laws are built for confusion and obfuscation. Drastic tax simplification should be the first financial matter taken up - but of course that will never happen because too many people of wealth and power count on obscure provisions to avoid paying what us working stiffs have no choice but to pay.
This is what burns me up! The supposed 'experts' fiddle like Nero while our money burns away. Gues we can't worry about what has happened and focus on the future. Those regulations that were keeping our money safe need to be recreated. It's obvious we cannot trust these supposed 'experts'.
What do you all think of a national sales tax? Do away with the IRS and all these silly laws, loopholes, etc. The more you buy the more you pay. Rich people will pay more, because they buy more!
Sadly, the bottom line on Geithner is that the offense he is guilty of is simply arrogance. And It would be virtually impossible to find as a replacement anybody else among his peers who is not guilty of the same thing. This fatal flaw almost always goes with the status of the leadership class. This was long ago explained in a book on the Vietnam war called "The Best and the Brightest."
Djoko, I missed your post from earlier and am just reading it, bravo! lib, I can't believe there is no one honest enough to pass a simple look into their taxes. Call me naive!
NE--regarding the "simplicity" of a sales tax. For a period of time I worked on sales tax cases in various states. There is no more convoluted and inexplicable body of law than that related to sales taxes. Often important principles of the law are contained nowhere else than in some state employee's desk drawer. What nontax experts don't understand is that tax law is complicated because our economy is complicated. As a simple illustration, a business can be organized as a proprietorship, a partnership, or a corporation, and the tax law has also created S corporations and LLCs. The rules for taxing these entities and their owners are all different, because the form of business is fundamentally different. Also, much of the complexity that dogs that tax law relates to special tax breaks given to various classes of taxpayers; for example the deduction of home mortgage interest, or depreciation rules. These taxpayers are not willing to give up their special tax breaks in favor of a simpler tax law. This is what happened to the big reform in 1986. For a few years thereafter, the tax law was a model of simplicity--two tax brackets, all income taxed the same. Then Wall St lobbied for a revival of the capital gain tax break, and the whole thing unraveled to where the law became as complicated as ever.
NEPhilly, "other than his being president." That's a good one, NEP:)
tjhaol, your son spilled his milk this morning?! You sure that wasn't Barney Frank's fault?
I'm all for a tax that would tax consumers equally. Seems to me most tax laws are written to be very complicated making it easier for those in the know to cheat on them. Why not have a simpler tax system? Is this even possible in today's world? I'll bet there's merit to your suggestion but I'm no expert. I'll bet it would more costly to the poor than it is now. Explain it to me please.
lib, I understand. Yet, if you didn't have to file tax returns, there would be no need for loopholes, right! No brackets, no deductions, no tax returns for anyone, businesses or personal. Everyone pays say a 20% national sales tax (or whatever the number would be) on everything anyone buys. Raw materials, cheesesteaks, football tickets, cars, rubber, metal, everything! What do you think the percentage would have to be? I would gladly pay it if I received my gross pay everyweek:)
No CD75, you are the idiot. Obama was President of the Harvard Law Review, and outsmarted both the Clintons and the entire Republican Party; hardly an idiot. You, on the other hand, are a loser right-wing stooge, who primary purpose in life is to heckle Dick Polman with over-used under-thought right-wing gibberish. Get a life, move out of your mom's basement, and give up following politics. It is obviously way above your simple mind.
We won't have a simplier tax system until we get rid of lobbyists.
The cemeteries are filled with "indispensable men."
I would love a tax system where everyone who earns a threshold amount pays, even the RICH! (sorry, SMike)
I have a nomination for poster of the year: the anti-CD75!
NEPhilly - You apparently have no idea how convoluted and complicated the Sales and Use Tax Codes are. For one, there are multiple jurisdictions. PA has 3 levels - 6% statewide with an extra 1% for Phila and Allegheny (Pittsburgh) counties to help pay for stadia. Better still, it's the Constitution that governs interstate trade, so your National Sales Tax would probably (pure conjecture by me here) require an amendment to the Constitution. Good luck getting 75% of the populace to ratify a tax. Let alone the chances of each state relinquishing its revenue from S & U tax. Meanwhile, you're opening the "but I bought this in Canada/Mexico/etc." can of worms. According to my Macroeconomics 101 teacher from many moons ago, the best way to simplify and the tax code make more equitable is to make it a flat tax WITH NO EXEMPTIONS. Of course, everyone cries about a flat tax harming poor folks disproportionately (it does) and the churches/Red Cross/US Army aren't in a hurry to be taxed.
Phrossty, I was just trying to think outside the box:) Are they more convoluted than our current tax code? I would go for a flat tax too, but Steve Forbes didn't seem to get anywhere with that idea:( I guess it is back to the drawing board:) Take it light!
They are our current tax code, just not federal income. Since there are over 50 jurisdictions - each with their own rules - I would say yes, it's more convulted, especially when reciprocity agreements are in play. Let's see... I'm a contractor based in Philly who does a job in NJ. Now, I have to learn NJ's rules AND PA's rules since they are virtually opposite one another. (PA wants me to collect taxes on Material, but not Labor. NJ wants me to collect taxes on Labor, but not the Materials.) Moreover, since I'm doing the job in NJ, I have to ensure my customer has applied for and obtained a capital improvement exemption if the job is large enough, so I don't charge sales tax at all. By now, I'm thinking cash only.... (especially if I bought my supplies in Delaware!).
NE PHIL: If the guy is a tax cheat, he should not get the job; but accusation is not guilt. BTW, this is not the same as The DOJ and Bush finding no wrong-doing w/ The DAG after he hired and fired DOJ lawyers to get 63 out of 65 RTA's. RIGHT THINKING AMERICANS: real Americans, not Libs or Dems or Affirmative LOL Action types. Yeah, I know, no conviction equals no guilt! Not even charges! That makes it right and legal, no? Holder admitted a mistake--which is guilt--on that Rich pardon, and he should be rejected for The AG job, no? Geithner is questionable, and Paulson is untainted, no? Geithner getting the Tres. Pos. is pulling a Chaney? .................. Please correct me if I'm wrong--I'm not an RTA--but 'Pub thinking is that no charges prove innocence for acceptable behavior. On the other hand, Holder and the Rich pardon admitted mistake is unacceptable behavior, meaning his being appointed AG is a disgrace. That means The Dems cannot be trusted running The DOJ, no? They will ruin Justice, no?
I'd go for a flat tax, with an extra premium on rich people and SMike.
Tal, I was just teasing you, did I hit a sore spot? Geithner (does the guy ever smile) paying the back taxes is proof that he owed them and was in the wrong! He should not become Treasury Sectry because of it! Holder admitted it was wrong to put that pardon on Clinton's desk outside the scope of regular pardons. Does that disqualify him? I doubt it. As for Paulson (a Dem by the way), he is a disgrace and took care of his buddy's on Wall Street without any accountability for that 1st $350 Billion and our spineless congress went right along as usual. It is their job not to get 'Cheneyed', no? A President can do whatever he wants to the federal prosecutors as they serve at his pleasure! Clinton did the same thing, only he dumped all 65:) Winning the election gives the Dems the right to run the Justice Dept anyway they see fit within the law:)
NE PHIL: As usual, you blame The Dems. Fair and balanced! No sore spot, I have no taste for 'Pub BS! .............. The 63 of 65 DOJ lawyers are the CAREER lawyers, who cannot be replaced by Obama or Holder. This is news from THIS week!
I must say (and I can't believe I'm doing so), I must side with the conservatives today. Geithner makes me very uneasy. He was reminded several times that he needed to pay the taxes, yet didn't? Then only paid what the IRS initially sniffed out, knowing that he also owed for previous years. I'm SOOOOOO tired of dishonesty. Surely there's an ethical person to put in that job who also has a fine intellect. Oh, and SMike, somewhere along the line you professed that the intellectual elite/college professors would have all the power and money, along with selected liberals. What a hoot! Of course, Georgia is below average in just about every area, but I happen to know that Ph.D.s coming into a two-year college only make in the high $30s or low $40s. Wow. What wealth. Those going into a four-year probably make higher, and those who find a job at the more prestigious research institutions (GA Tech, UGA) may even go as high as $50 or $55 to start. Now that's rich. Makes me smile just to write it. Come on. People in education generally don't make very much. I know. I work in it. And I came out of the corporate world in Phila./NJ. I took a $35K cut. So I'm not buying into college professors having all the clout.
LOL @ Djoko. A flat tax with a premium isn't flat anymore. But as long as S-Mike is the one paying, I'm in favor also. I need to pay for my $9/gallon gas!
NE PHIL: This CAREER lawyer thing in The DOJ was RUSHED thru to try to prevent Obama or Holder from prosecuting The DAG for his actions. Bush signed off on it as well. Again, no charges equals legal and acceptable behavior by The 'Pubs, while Holder's admittance equals The Dems being wrong in allowing Holder to be The AG. As usual, The 'Pubs are the party of the rule of law, no?
I'm with DP. Everyone has some personal interest in the tax codes. There will be lobbying at every turn as soon as there is a push to change anything. The lobbyists are the drivers for complicated taxation.
sorry. This doesn't pass the smell tax. This Al Capone culture of the Democrats has to stop. Geitner should not be confirmed. If any of these so called financial geniuses were really that smart we'd be living in an economic nirvana right now.
phrossty- I gotta admit that gave me a chuckle! The government should just assign me a family of 4 from Camden to care for. It would be cheaper than the combined state,local, and federal taxes that I pay.
I think that anyone that voted for George W Bush twice should be made to pay taxes at a 70% rate. Anyone who didn't vote for him twice will have to pay 30%. Let's put the bill where it belongs! We can use voter records! YEAH! That's the way to go! WHAT? You say a person's vote is a secret? OH COME ON!!!! um......never mind.....
SW MIKE: Holder & Geiter & Al Capone Dems ALL are criminals and need to face the rule of law, no? What about Bradley Schlozman? No convictions, no charges, no guilt, right? Bush and DOJ signed off on it, deciding that 63 of 65 CAREER lawyers in the hiring-firing process for Justice being Conses was okay, as they rushed to prevent Obama or a new AG from prosecuting. Fair, balanced, honest, legal, right--no?
Talvenda- I have no idea what you are trying to express. Can you stop writing in sentence fragments and abreviations?
James TL- I think anyone who is liberal should feel free to pay more taxes. Just keep your paws out of my wallet.
Or in Geihtner's case just help your self to nice tax cut. Typical liberal corrupt behavior once again
James TL, secret vote? No problem; I'm sure all who voted for W twice will stand up and be counted! I know NEPhilly will!
President of Harvard Law Review - ode to the benefits of affirmative action.
SW MIKE: What about Bradley Schlozman, Deputy Attorney General?
Anti-CD75: Loser? Funny one. Anyone who would take the time to log in and create a screen name like that is the pot calling the kettle black.
Just to add a note of reality here--it's not remotely a criminal offense to make a mistake on your tax returns. It takes intent to evade taxes in order to push it up to the criminal stage. The typical fat-cat's lackadaisical attitude toward filing a tax return (as in the Geithner case) is not criminal or virtually all rich people would be in prison. (Some ancient communist impulse somewhere in my psyche is saying OK!!!--but I will deny this even if tortured.) The point is, Geithner's offense is so banal and common that it's pointless to make a federal case out of it, so to speak.
NE--I'm afraid that your idea of a simple sales tax is a fantasy. How about the resale exemption scheme? Hugely complicated. Handling international transactions--aargh. Purchases by charities? Taxation of services? Intercorporate transactions--for example a sale by a corporation to a 20% subsidiary? Etc. No, as long as the economy is complicated--and I don't think anybody wants to revert to a barter economy although the current collapse may move us there in a few years--the tax law, however you structure it, will be complicated.
Talvenada- I have no idea who Bradley Scholzman is. What indiscretion did he commit? do tell
Talvenada- I have no idea who Bradley Scholzman is. What indiscretion did he commit? do tell
Liberal, how do you see the fact that after paying up when audited for '03 and '04, he didn't also pay for '01 and '02? Intent maybe?
Gentlemen, me along with 50 million others in 2000 and 62 million others in 2004! So I don't feel very lonely:) Tal, what the heck are you talking about? You're like a magic 8 ball:) Off to bball practce be back in a bit!
Liberal- I agree with you on Geihtner but many a good person has been denied confirmation over a technicality or a mild oversight. Most common has been hiring of illegal immigrants. In june of 2007 I hired a Mullica Hill based landscaping company and on the morning they showed up I could have sworn I was at the Alamo. Not one lick of english was being spoken by the landscapers. Should I ever run for elective office someone would investigate that transaction with the landscaping company and find that I indirectly hired illegal immigrants. Geihtners tax ovesight is mild but it might cost him.
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swedey, Al Capone culture of the Dems? Funny, isn't it the Republicans who are into killing and wiping out any opposition. Seems to me that Capone was a conservative. He believed in a freee market, as long as he could control it. Also, wanted absolute loyalty anddid not stand for any dissent from his followers (see Giunta, Scalise, Louisville slugger).
And cd, what is it about Dems and not paying taxes. Well, since the rich Repubs get all the tax breaks, we've got to try to hold onto as much as we can, just trying to be republicans.
Maybe someone already posted this idea: The main criteria is whether the person in question is a Republican or Democrat. If Dem, like this guy, the MSM will work overtime to worship a nominee of their false messiah--just like we're seeing now. If Republican, God help the guy. The press attacks without mercy.
I'm just waiting for loser Obama to make a mistake that the MSM won't be able to cover. My personal favorite would be closing Gitmo, followed by public knowledge that one of the coddled terrorists murdered some American after being released by the false messiah. Bottom line, you really have to get the ONE out in the open without his media shield. This tax cheating nominee is too well protected. Too bad he's not a Republican!
Hey, mcfrugal, Rush and all those other conservative talkers, Fox news, the NY Post and Wash Times, and WSJ are all MSM. There are many others; there are dozens of conservative bloggers, too. The MSM thing is a tired refrain. Get some new material.
SW MIKE & NE PHIL: Both of you are confused? Bradley Schlozman should be one of your main heroes, no? He's the Deputy Attorney General--who like you both is a Right Thinking American, a real American. Even though The Justice Department has 63 of 65 CAREER Attorneys who are Right Thinking Americans: CONSERVATIVE REPUBLICANS, The President, The Attorney General moved quickly to announce that there will be no investigation or charges. Why? Since the slightest question of Obama, Holder, etc. is reason enough, how is it that 63 of 65 Career Attorneys of any type goes unnoticed by the most knowledgeable citizens of this country: CONSERVATIVE REPUBLICANS, like both of you? Again, why?
Talvenada- Still have not idea who this Scholzman dude is. And I don't feel like doing a google search. We'll let you tell the story.
NEPhilly,
I too agree that the Deomcorats will probably overreach. However, the GOP especially now while in the minority had better come to the table with ideas. If they try and do a clinton II, they will be toast. Don't forget most by a large majority of the new voters are Democrats. If the GOP alienates this group they will have a hard time winning anything. And notice - the new GOP senate retirements in 2010 ???? The GOP is going to have to work extra hard for a good result in 2010.
SW MIKE: You want the story? If he were a Dem, a Lib or BOTH, you'd be more than willing to acknowledge who he is, more than willing to slime an entire group of people over even his slightest questionable action, more than willing to turn over ever stone to DEMAND he be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. Who is he? He's the kind of guy you'd claim not to see if he was 1 inch in front of your eyes, because you believe in justice being BLIND, like you.
As the Obama cabinet takes shape it will be interesting to see his effect on the courts as well. Instead of the right wing legislation from the bench, it will be nice to see judges who interpret the law from the bench - NOT MAKE IT ! Thankfully the Atty General Designate has the courage to say what is so obvious - WATERBOARDING IS TORTURE ! When we equivocate (to allow it) we are all less secure !
Talvenada- still no idea who this guy is Scholzman. If the joke needs to be explained it is a failure. Butwhatabouts only work for so long.
Talvenada- When you go to " war " in the blogosphere try to bring some bullets. Since you refused to divluge who in the world Scholzman is, I took the liberty of investigating in Wikepedia. Wake me when have anything of interest.
Talvenada- Does your head spin around like Bridget Bardot in the exoricst whenever you see George Bush?
SW MIKE: Who is Bradley? Like you he has rights, and is innocent until proven guilty. You know, rights and due process that Holder does NOT qualify for, because they do NOT agree w/ YOU!!
SW MIKE: And be unarmed like you?
Talvenada- twas Linda Blair in the exorcist not Bridgette Bardot. My bad
Talvenda- you are becoming unhinged over conjecture and what might be. Obama's cabinet including Holder will likely pass. I mean its a country run top to bottom by democrats. If someone asks a difficult question I wouldn't get upset. Your ilk has been running the show since 2006. Since then the economy has nose dived and will continue its downward trend because of the horrible policies of the Obama,Pelosi, and Reid administration.
Let's also remember Rep Charlie Rangel & Senator Al Franken......I don't think it's right to treat our Democratic leaders as if they were scum like Joe the Plumber. Democrats need some level of protection in tax issues.
SW MIKE: Let me get this straight. Sentence fragments make me appear to be illiterate, while you have ALL the answers. You portray me as unclear, stupid, lazy, joking, factless, boring, nonsensical, hate-filled, angry, and debate empty. Did I miss any of your compliments? You do everything to avoid answering my question. Ergo, you are fair and balanced when it comes to Dems & 'Pubs.
Mike you are actually scary. Take the time to google the name - I did. Hopefully Holder will take action against Scholzman and other pertptrators of these apparantly common illegal practices which was commin in Bush's administration. It's sad to get one's information solely from GOP shills.
Talvenada- would you like some cheese cake with that? LMAO. would you lighten up a bit?
SW MIKE: Wow! Now, I'm unhinged, demonic (again), and upset. I'm NONE of those things, but I'll not let party affiliation influence me, like you. If a Dem jaywalks he is tainted, and ALMOST no matter what a 'Pub does it requires a court conviction.
Marge- You might have more luck barking at the moon. US attorney's sever at the whim of the President. Clinton fired all of them upon innauguration.
SW MIKE: CAREER attorneys cannot be removed by Holder or Obama! ..................FOR OTHER MOON BARKERS: The probe, conducted by two watchdog groups within the department, reviewed "allegations that political or ideological affiliations were considered in hiring, transferring and assigning cases to career attorneys in the Civil Rights Division of the Department of Justice," specifically under former DOJ official Bradley Schlozman, who held an interim post at the head of the division......
According to the report, Schlozman circumvented many of his colleagues and arranged the hiring of lesser-qualified applicants based on their conservative political ideology......
The jobs involved were not political appointments but career positions for which candidates, according to federal law and guidelines, are to be selected for their qualifications, not their political or ideological leanings.
Talvenda- you are too funny. gettin all worked up of federal attorneys. If it were up to me I would load them all up on an ark and float em out to sea.
Yeah Tal, its not quite as vital as the foaming at the mouth caused by a $.05 change in the price of a gallon of gas in Jersey.
SW MIKE: I'm not worked up about lawyers, or anything else. I refuse to allow YOU and other Conse 'Pubs to make a man--a Dem--who apologizes for a mistake in the Presidential Pardon of Rich to be portrayed as CRIMINAL w/ outrage, while a 'Pub man breaks FEDERAL LAW to a yawn from you. Need we forget how Conse 'Pubs are fair and balanced?
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Here's the irony of Obama being elected President... the civil rights groups were founded on ethical and moral justifications... MLK talked about judging people by "the content of their character". How far the democrats have fallen... Obama, to his credit, used his minority / victim status to his advantage and was elected. Even Geraldine Ferraro, Democratic Vice-President Nominee for Mondale said Obama wouldn't have won if he would have been a white kid w/ red hair from Nebraska (paraphrasing G. Ferraro.) Now Obama nominates several people to his cabinet, w/ questionable character... Eric Holder, Tim Geithner, Hilliary Clinton... judging people by the "content of their character"... look how far we've gone... in the wrong direction. Does anyone care about ethics and morals anymore? Is everything about, like Polman writes, about 'how to get away w/ it'. Our country is in BIG trouble because leaders in politics and business selfishly explained away their behavior... allowing the worst kinds of abuses to be 'explained away'. I'm a conservative, but would ask my liberal and conservative friends to refocus on elevating the political discourse... not giving guidelines on how to 'play the system'!
The Republicans controlled the House from 1995 to 2007. The Senate was in both party hands during that time, like from 2001 to 2003. So the Republicans did not control Congress, as was previously stated.
I have to admire the way Democrats and liberals rally around their kind at times of scandal. It is reminiscent of the Sandy Berger stuffing classified documents from the National Archives down his pants and taking them before Clinton testified to the 9/11 commission. The media pundits were all over it as his "being sloppy" and "nothing criminal". Now we have a financial wizard who was notified of his tax liability and received an extra allowance from his employer to pay them making "an honest mistake" and "a common mistake" when he did not report and pay his liability. Harry Reid even referred to this as "a hiccup". NEPhilly...a sales tax would not work because Democrats would never allow the poor to pay it. It was discussed once with the idea that the poor would receive their share of taxes back from the government (meaning reporting) and the rich would have to pay a surcharge. It would get even more complicated as time went by...remember the "luxury tax" from the 1990's and its colossal failure?
My parents have been retired for 15 years. From the day they drew their last paycheck they have been paying quarterlies. They are pretty bright, though not to the degree of this financial wizard. They were able to figure out what and when they needed to pay taxes when they were no longer having taxes withheld. This guy is simply a tax avoider or cheat. These are actions that would lead to fairly serious repercussions to we average taxpayers, but in this instance is merely a "honest mistake". Pretty funny that we are going to have this guy lead the agency that has audit power when we make a "honest mistake", except our "honest mistakes" will have the full power of IRS enforcement behind them.
Don't "sloppiness, forgetfullness, and stupidty, come under the heading of QUALIFIED? You guy's take the cake.
What makes the Al Capone culture of Democrats even worse is that the media covers for them.
s-mike "US attorney's sever at the whim of the President." What a Freudian slip!!!
It will be interesting to see if Obama and Holder get rid of Fitzpatrick and the attorney in New Mexico who is investigating Richardson. Funny that the guy in New Mexico replaced David Iglesias, one of those 8 fired attorneys who supposedly was not pursuing corruption but Dems say was fired for political reasons. If Obama fires Fitz and the New Mexico guy, will they be for political reasons, rr will libs here say they serve at the leisure of the president? Ironic also that on the day the Attorney General designate says the president did not have the authority for the NSA program, a Federal Court validated the presidents authority to conduct the NSA program without a warrant. So which will Holder do...follow his opinion or what the court says is legal?
Four years ago the Associated Press did a story about the 40 million dollars spent for George Bush's innaugaration. They mused about how much penicillin for sick children the 40 million spent on the innauguration would buy. But as Obama is about to spend 150 million on his innauguration there are no such stories being written. There is a good example of media bias
swede...don't you realize? This is an historic moment!!!! This is change we can believe in, a new horizon, the rebirth of America. I mean with Bush violating the fourth amendment...wait, the FISA court decision from August was just released yesterday, and Bush did not violate the fourth amendment with his NSA program. The Supreme Court even ruled in 1980 that the president could gather intelligence without a warrant, but liberals do not care about those wrong decisions. It is different for them. Sandy Berger was just sloppy. Tim Geithner made an honest mistake. Mark Rich was pardoned because it was an injustice, not because his wife donated millions to a library. Charlie Rangel's tax problems are a matter of interpretation, so why should he leave his post as chairman of the committee that writes tax law. Deficit spending is wrong, heaping debt on our children, except for now, when deficit spending is needed to save the economy, and because Obama will make the right spending choices. Bush was solely responsible for everything that happened during the past 8 years, and he is also responsible for anything negative that happens during the next 4. So Obama spending $150 million is justified because of the historic nature of his presidency, but $40 million is too much for just another normal swearing in ceremony.
After all, MSNBC is devoting three days of coverage, and I am glad ESPN does not cover politics.
Tom from Wilmington- I will be watching re-runs of Seinfeld as much as possible on the 20th. The news coverage of Obama is nauseating. The media doesn't even try to hide their bias anymore. The beginning of dashed hopes and the audacity of the status quo starts Jan 20th. It's gonna be hilarious.
Obama is spending over $100 million on his party while people are jobless and starving. What a joke.
The audacity of hypocrisy is Barack Obama. To claim to want to help poor people while spending $ 150,000,000 for an innaugaration party. so typical
I realize that most of you conservatives never read the New York Times, preferring to believe that it is strictly left-wing propaganda (even when sources are cited), but has anyone read this morning's Paul Krugman? Here's the link. http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/16/opinion/16krugman.html.
Tom, please don't paint us all with the same brush. I'm very uneasy about Geithner and I was outraged by the Rich pardon. Yet my principles are still liberal.
Nigel....brush here after narrowed.
Nigel....Krugman is an idiot. He is one of those you say you would not like to be painted as in line with even though you are liberal. Krugman is the Keith Olberman of the print media. Besides, the FISA court said in August (just released decision) that the warrantless wiretapping was not illegal. Of course, their ruling was related to 2007-2008, but it sets a precedent, as did the 1980 Supreme Court ruling that the president needs no warrant to gather intelligence during a war. As for Iraq, I and many others do not believe that Bush misled us into that war any more than I believe Clinton bombed Iraq WMD plants to detract from the Lewinsky scandal. One thing Krugman misses is that if Obama and Congress start any investigations, then when Dems lose power they will be opening up investigations into their administrations and rulings. How will we get the best and brightest to serve in government if when their party is out of power they need to fear investigations and hearings?
I'd like to echo Nigel. There's a little bit too much broadbrushing here. All we need is to start identifying all conservatives with CD.
Tom, I have no problem with investigations -- on either side -- if there has been wrongdoing. And I don't consider any who do the wrong to be the best and/or the brightest.
And Tom, I respectfully disagree with you about Krugman. He is certainly no idiot. It's fine if you happen to disagree with him. I disagree most of the time with Charles Kraulthammer (sp?), but he's very bright and well informed. I dislike slurs against others (especially the "stupid, idiot, moron" ones) just because they have an opposing point of view. I have little patience with the Coulters or Limbaughs of the world, for example, simply because they do this kind of thing and they, above all else, seem to be peddlers of hatred.
tom: as usual, you are being purposefully deceptive. The FISA court ruling you wrote about was referring to 2007-2008, as you stated. It does NOT set a precedent with regards to the illegal warrantless surveillance from 2001 to 2005. It was specifically ruling only that a telcom must comply with the 2007 "Protect America" act. It addressed absolutely nothing about pre-2007 surveillance.
still, I never said it dealt with pre-2007 surveillance. However, it does set a precedent, as did the 1980 Supreme Court ruling which I notice was absent from your comment. Do not read into my post something not there....and it does set a precedent. For example, the 1980 ruling by the Supremes stated "the Executive need not always obtain a warrant for foreign intelligence surveillance". In its opinion "In re Sealed Case", the FISA appeals court stated that the president has "inherent authority to conduct warrantless searches to obtain foreign intelligence information". How this, in your opinion, does not set a precedent is astounding.
And please explain how stating the opinion related only to 2007 and 2008 is being deceptive?
If I didn't pay my taxes, the IRS would take my house....
If I didn't pay my taxes, the IRS would take my house....
Is it possible the 100 plus million dollars will be made back through other parts of the economy? There are more grocery stores in the mega expensive military bases in Iraq than in the entire city of Chester. Speaking of Chester, what about the millions being spent on a soccer stadium. Swedes and CD and all yal complaining about the Inaugural money need to step back and find some real issue to complain about. You guys are just bitter because McCain's inaugural would have attracted about as many people as a soccer game in Chester.
Yes, Geithner violated tax law, which is wrong. But that law is ridiculous. The US is the only country in the world that makes expats pay taxes when they are already paying income taxes in the country where they live -- sometimes at very high rates. Paying income tax twice on the same money is just plain unfair.
tom: because you're leaving out the part where the FISA court wrote "our decision recognizes that where the government has instituted several layers of serviceable safeguards to protect individuals against unwarranted harms and to minimize incidental intrusions ...", referring specifically to provisions in the Protect America Act. The courth felt that the 1997 act put in place sufficient privacy safeguards to meet the constitutional standards of the Fourth Amendment’s ban on unreasonable searches. They did NOT rule in a general sense on the President's ability to conduct warrantless surveillance. As for the supreme court, do you mean "United States v. Truong Dinh Hung" ?
Tom, you're misusing the term "precedent." A precedent refers to an earlier case involving the same situation as the current case. It doesn't just mean a statement in a court opinion that suggests what that judge might think in a subsequent related, but different case.
The tax law is pretty tough compared with other parts of the law--the taxpayer has fewer rights than the ordinary criminal defendant. However, in order to have a criminal tax case, there still is a requirement of proving intent to evade taxes. No facts indicating this intent have yet surfaced in the Geithner case, so he's not a tax "cheat," etc. Still, it's obvious that he is careless or arrogant about his tax obligations.
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