Romney the reformer, and the risks of roadkill
A Republican's health reform is similar to Obama's health reform
Romney the reformer, and the risks of roadkill
Dick Polman, Inquirer National Political Columnist
It has been fascinating to watch Mitt Romney during these first days of the health reform era (or, as the Republicans call it, "Armageddon"). We've long known, of course, that Romney has a penchant for retooling his convictions to fit the exigencies of the moment, but what this presidential aspirant is doing this week - shedding his old image as a responsible, pragmatic executive; brandishing a pitchfork so that he can pander to the most irrational elements of the conservative base - is downright breath-taking.
There's no mystery why he's doing this. He wants to win the '12 GOP nomination (although he has yet to formally declare his candidacy), and he figures that the best way to win the key early contests in Iowa, New Hampshire, and South Carolina is to convince right-leaning primary voters that he too sees Barack Obama as a socialist/fascist/Kenyan/whatever and a betrayer of America besides. Which is why, on Monday, Romney claimed that the president has "betrayed his oath to the nation" by signing "unconstitutional" health care reform; and why, yesterday, he circulated an email asking his political supporters to donate money to the cause of repealing health care reform.
And yet, despite his latest fervently rightward tilt, I suspect that Romney may well wind up as roadkill after his rival contestants out him as a phony. It's a 30-second attack ad waiting to happen, and it has the advantage of being essentially true:
The Obama health reform law that Romney purportedly loathes actually resembles, in many key respects, the Massachusetts health reform law that Romney championed and signed as governor - starting with the individual mandate, the requirement that all citizens purchase health insurance. The same requirement that Romney now finds so objectionable.
Rather than having me list the provisions that the two laws have in common, let's turn the job over to Fox News. Seventeen days ago, host Chris Wallace sliced Romney to ribbons on this very issue. Here's Wallace: "Let's look at the plan that you signed into law in Massachusetts in 2006. You have an individual mandate. You have an employer mandate. You have subsidies for some of the uninsured. You set minimum insurance coverage standards. Again, a lot of emails I got from conservatives make this point. They say it sure sounds an awful lot like Obamacare....We got a lot of email from conservatives this week who said that you are the wrong man" to be making the case against Obama.
This is not good. A Republican presidential aspirant who runs afoul of Fox News might as well give it up and go sell shoes. At one point, Romney insisted that his reform law had "no government insurance, no government option, if you will." Wallace retorted, "Well, there's no government option in the Obama plan anymore, either." To which Romney sputtered, "No, that's right, that's right, and so what we did was entirely different..." It was ugly, watching this guy trying to shed his own record.
The record shows that, when Romney was governor and closest to his true self as a business-oriented executive, he worked overtime to cover the uninsured and require everyone to purchase coverage - with government subsidies, if necessary. He became the first (and he's still the only) governor to sign a health insurance mandate.
On April 8, 2006, shortly before signing the Massachusetts law, he talked up health reform on NPR, sounding much like Obama today: "We're spending a billion dollars giving health care to people who don't have insurance. And my question was, could we take that billion dollars and help the poor purchase insurance? Let them pay what they can afford. We'll subsidize what they can't."
He told NPR that the reforms would work only if everyone bought coverage. He said that those citizens who can afford insurance would be required to buy it - "otherwise, you're just passing your expenses on to someone else." Obama couldn't have said it better.
But my favorite part was when Romney attacked those who would defy the law and refuse to buy coverage: "That's not Republican, that's not Democratic, that's not libertarian. That's just wrong."
Today, it's clear that Romney 2.0 (or perhaps it's 3.0) would prefer that conservative Republican voters ignore the earlier Romney or, better yet, remain blissfully unaware. The latter scenario is not very likely. The conservative Club for Growth, the interest group that seeks to expunge all moderate impulses from the GOP, is already assailing Romney; as Club official Andy Roth reportedly remarked two weeks ago, "The individual mandate is diametrically against what free-market conservatives believe in," and if Romney thinks he won't be held accountable for his mandate, "then I think he is in the wrong party."
And wait to see what happens during the long presidential primary season (which, believe it or not, begins in a mere eight months, right after the midterms). Rival Republican candidates will likely bring up the Massachusetts law in the debates, and they will likely distill its essence in the TV ads. Just like in the Fox News gig, Romney will have to spend precious time on defense, explaining how his law differs from Obama's law. He who toils on defense is least likely to survive.
In theory, Romney could take the opposite tack - by pointing out that the health coverage mandate concept was actually hatched by the conservative Heritage Foundation back in the early '90s, as a way to get people to take responsibility for themselves - but, of course, it would be political suicide for him to suggest that conservatives are now behaving as hypocrites, attacking their own mandate concept only because Obama has embraced it. And besides, there's no way Romney can flip flop yet again, now that he has morphed into a placard-wielding populist who's apparently intent on assailing the mandate embraced by his former self. His new, overcompensating self may be his only hope for capturing conservative hearts, tenuous as those prospects might be.
So he'll have to twist in the wind indefinitely, even as the White House keeps twisting the knife. On Monday, press secretary Robert Gibbs mentioned the similarities between Obama's law and Romney's law, before adding: "I'm sure Gov. Romney hates every time I say that." You can bet on it.
Comments (110)
RomneyCare is the basis for the Federal law. How long before we see his face with a Hitler mustache and a hammer and sickle armband? Oh Well. Just not up to snuff.
Romney is probably the most electable Republican available, if the party were willing to run a moderate and Romney were willing to stop pretending he is anything other than a moderate Republican. So it's heart-warming and hilarious to watch the attack dogs of the right chew him up and spit out their only remote, faint hope of competing against Obama in 2012. Bring on Huckleberry/Palin! Or better yet, Palin/Beck!— Yersinia Pestis- Massachusetts is a good example of the problems associated with futher government intervention in healthcare. A well intended program ends up making the problems worse , not better. Romney would do better in pointing out the mistake of the Massachusetts program instead of trying to defend it. He could move forward in his campaign by talking about other issues like government largesse, fiscal responsibility, taxes, the economy etc.... If Polman's thinking is that Obama is going to get re-elected because one Republican candidate is no different, then I think that is flawed logic. It is the " all the other kids are doing it excuse " that is becoming tire and worn out. The election is a long way away and there will be other people running for the nomination
- Yersinia- That is a tried and true way for Conservatives to lose the election. Taking political advice from someone who despise the very air that conservatives breath is not a good idea. And if I were you I would be carefull pontificating upon your party's eternal hold on power.
- Given the hypocricy that occurs in D.C. and around the country, by both parties, on an hourly basis - your post is mind-numbingly devisive, Dick. Question: Have you EVER run a business, hired/fired employees, made payroll or groveled for a loan? Or, as I suspect, are you an over-educated, academic twit without a hint of real world experience?— A Friend
- A Friend- Well said. One of the best posts in a while.
- I wonder if Polman will exhibit the same glee as Obama trys to paint himself as a centrist again in 2012. I think not.— Conan the Barbarian
Comment removed.- The Democratic Party Propaganda Industry (i.e. the newspaper industry in America) is at it again. You cannot believe anything you read in the papers, except that they are just talking points from shower-man Rahm.— CD75
- The Democratic Party Propaganda Industry (i.e. the newspaper industry in America) is at it again. You cannot believe anything you read in the papers, except that they are just talking points from shower-man Rahm.— CD75
- CD75, you're generalizing and that can be dangerous. You're focusing on the Democratic party and their propaganda industy, but what about the Republicans and theirs? Both sides have their "industry" and one should not trust any of them. That's why everyone needs to do their own research and come to their own conclusions instead of simply repeating talking points that do not have a shred of truth (which I see constantly).— middie
- I'm not sure if health care reform will live up to its billing, but its passage has already paid dividends given the extent it has caused you wing nuts to become even more unhinged. Polman's post was fairly simple and logical. The present republican front runner, and most moderate republican national figure (who won the straw poll at the recent CPAC conference) will never make it through the primary process. Putting aside the fact that he is a Morman (always a hit with evangelicals), a former financial executive (a hit with tea party types) and former governor of Massachusetts (sure to rally Southerners), he supported Obamacare before it was Obamacare. Even if the republicans make gains in the mid terms, their presidential nominee (Jindal, Palin, Huckabee) will be road kill in 2012 just like Bob Dole in 1996.— wru
- Correction - Ron Paul won the most recent CPAC straw poll, Romney (who won in 2009)came in second, Palin third. In any event, not exactly a murderer's row of potential candidates. Tim Pawlenty you say? - He tied "undecided" with six percent of the vote.— wru
- Hilary was for the mandate in the primary Obama strongly denounced her for supporting a mandate. Dick where is the article about that????— kmjm22
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- Dick, you usually at least make a reasonable argument, if based on unsound assumptions. But to insinuate that opposition to the Health bill is irrational crosses the line. The more I read the bill, the more against it I become. I think it is more irrational to believe that this bill does anything it claims to do.— Mirror
- Mr. Cheese, Polman's point is that Romney will get your vote only if you write in his name, because he won't be the Republican candidate. Good luck getting elected president as a write-in candidate!— Yersinia Pestis
- Romney will not win the GOP nomination because of 'Mitt-care'. He is a moderate repub (and Polman still slices and dices, go figure:) and that is just not going to do for the next presidential election (McCain but younger). Plus the Morman thing is a little much for the bible belt repubs to get over, imho. The GOP needs to run a true conservative in 2012. Someone that will run on cutting the size and scope of govt., someone that will reign in exploding govt. entitlement spending before it bankrupts us, someone that will run on term limits for Congress. Someone that will run on killing the IRS (not adding 15,000 new agents) and replacing an arcane income tax policy with a national sales tax or some other point of sale method to collect taxes. Someone that will run on personal responsibility for our citizens and not the govt. taking care of everyone, someone that will run on cutting taxes on our people and our businesses to get our country moving forward again. That is the candidate I will be looking for in 2012 and by then I bet the country will have had its fill of 9% unemployment and 4 years of unemployment benefits and 4 years of growing govt., growing govt. debt, growing mortgage defaults, etc. What good are health insurance credits if you have no job, no house & are indebted to the govt. for everything you have and need? We will see if this nonsense works and it better or the refrain will be, 'Are you better off now than you were 4 years ago?' & that answer better be yes of this President is in deep doo doo, imho.— NEPhilly
- TOM SAID: Tal, from your post, did you note the word "alleged"? Still no verifiable evidence that any of the slurs actually happened. ........... TOM: Alleged doesn't mean not verifiable, dude. It means not convicted. A man shots someone in front of 100 witnesses, and it's still alleged, dude. Thank you, for how to take one word, and make a Conse 'Pub right. Good example of Conse 'Pub linguistics. No wonder you guys are never wrong.— Talvenada
- NE, that is what cracks me up about this blog post, and the responses to it - Romney would probably do most of the stuff on your wish list, assuming (big assumption) he could beat Obama after 3 more years of legislative and economic progress, but you people are too wrapped up in your ideological strait jackets to realize it!— Yersinia Pestis
- Case in point - yesterday health care reform, today nuclear arms control agreement with Russia. Obama has accomplished more for America in 2 days than Chicken George did in 8 years! Now for financial reform, cap & trade, and who knows, maybe even tax simplification (everyone likes that idea except the tax accountants and tax lawyers).— Yersinia Pestis
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- I'll agree with this- Romney Care is just about the same as Obamacare and its failing miserably. This is what politicians do- they change opinions on a daily basis. Of course, you won;t hear about the 5000 changes of opinion Obama has had on these pages, but hey- you;re reading Pravda, what do you want? But I do agree that the combination of Romeny Care and now his stance against it will hurt him politically.— tjm333126
- yersinia, maybe he would, but I doubt it. You don't sign a law like Mass-care that grows the govt. and its spending and then say you are a conservative. Mitt is a chameleon and everyone knows it. The GOP will start with winning at least 1 house of Congress (my prediction is Reid will go down and Pelosi will be minority leader come Christmas) this November and stop the 'euro-fication' of America in its tracks:) Then on to the 2012 elections. 'Jeb 2012' sounds good to me:)— NEPhilly
- Romney signed that law and it too effect right away. That took courage. Obama signed a law that does not really take effect until after the next presidential election. That way, he can tout the signing of the bill without most people even knowing its impact. Brave leader. Wasn't Obama also against the mandate before he was for it? Didn't he lambaste Hillary Clinton during a 2008 debate for including a mandate in her health plan? Why yes, he did!!! Doesn't that also make him even more of a hypocrite than he already is due ot his switch on the deficit commission, on taxing employer provided coverage, for not putting bills on the internet for five days before he signs them, etc. etc. etc. Why not include that in your post Polman?— tom - wilmington, de
- Romney is nothing but a Progressive Conservative...if that's at all possible. He should not even think about running for president again.— whiplash240
- Obama's hypocrisy has shone again. Against the deficit commission, then appoints one by exeutive order. Against taxing employer provided insurance, then includes a 40% tax in his healthcare plan. Against the individual and employer mandate (he lambasted Hillary for it in a 2008 debate), but includes it in his healthcare plan. Promised to post any bill online for five days before signing it into law, but has not yet done that once. The list goes on and on.— tom - wilmington, de
- NE, I don't know what you've been smoking, but can I have some too? You must be joking - Jeb Bush??? The Bush name is radioactive, and will be for generations to come. But, hey, don't take my word for it, go ahead and run him. I'd still prefer Palin/Beck, but Bush/Schmuckleberry is OK too.— Yersinia Pestis
- Forcing anyone to buy a commodity in order to be a good American is unconstitutional, pure and simple. I know it is done with auto insurance but having a driver's license is a privlege, not a right; therefore, that is constitutional. I do not care if a republican or a democrat or George Washington himself suggested it, it is unconstitutional.— frankfj
- tom: can anyone ever change their mind and not be a hypocrit? I agree that Obama hasn't posted bills for five days before signing them (although that's lying, where's the hypocrisy?) and he should be criticized for that. He did criticize Hilary for the mandate. If his economic team (or healthcare team, or whoever advises him) convinces him that it's not doable w/out a mandate, is that being hypocritical, or just not being oblivious to reality? For me, it would depend on what he says. If he simply changes his position with no justification, then yes, that's hypocrisy. If he gives a reasonable justification, then it's not. Was Reagan a hypocrit when he raised taxes? I'd say no, he was dealing with reality, but maybe you think he was. ... Finally, McCain was proposing taxing ALL employer provided insurance. If McCain had proposed only taxing "cadillac" plans and Obama opposed, then fine, he's being hypocritical. But that wasn't the case.— still_independent
- Wow, Foxnews actually asks tough questions of republicans. if only, cnn, msnbc...etc. did the same of their party.— Scholes
- Jeb 2012! You Betcha!— PA_Dutch
- Y-PEST: How about Bush-Cheney? Jeb & Liz?— Talvenada
- GOVERNMENT CHEESE: Wrong!! ..... one little pearl...the IRS is immediately hiring 15,000 agents to enforce this... Bad Conse 'Pub! You NEVER give the other side credit for anything; you only dis them. Key word: ONLY!!!— Talvenada
- Rep Dingell's view of Obamacare http://www.breitbart.tv/shocking-audio-rep-dingell-says-obamacare-will-eventually-control-the-people— Fisher
- Talvenada, for a minute I thought you were suggesting some sort of incredibly naughty campaign slogan...then I looked them up and found that it's Mary who is the gay Cheney, not Liz...Either way, I give that combo even less chance than Bush/Palin!— Yersinia Pestis
- Y-PEST: Mary could run for a revived BULL Moose Party, no?— Talvenada
- GOV'MENT CHEESE: Just don't mention the pearl, but do carp about unemployment. That's what you're suppose to do. Obama is 100% bad and Bush was 95% good.— Talvenada
- FISHER: breitbart? Isn't he the guy behind proving every Acorn employee is a crook, including Obama?— Talvenada
- tal and yers, I knew Jeb would get your goat:) Throwing in Liz Cheney as his running mate is a stroke of genius. I wish I would have thought of it:)— NEPhilly
- NEPHILLY, You ask about the answer to the question "Are you better off than you were four years ago." Millions of Americans will be able to say that even though they lost their job, they didn't lose their health insurance. They are free to start their own business rather than working someplace just for the health benefits. They will know that they will have health insurance even if they get sick (unlike now). They will know that they can change jobs and still be covered, even with a pre-existing condition. Millions of Americans will be able to say: "Yes, I am better off, and no thanks to the Republicans."— Chris Landee
- Go Ramsey: "The parents need to step up to the plate and stop blaming somebody else. 'Oh it's the schools,' or, 'We don't have enough to do in the rec center,' we don't have this, that and the other. Now find something for them to do. Why don't you try sitting down with them and spending some time with them, instead of throwing them in front of the TV, or out on the streets to find something to do? I mean, you had 'em, you raise 'em, you take care of 'em. When they come to me, I got something else for them." The commissioner says, bluntly, he's not in the social work business. He says they are police officers and they'll lock up the kids who are breaking the law. Nothing less is acceptable.— BarneyMiller
- chris, I don't think there are enough Americans in any of the situations you mentioned that would make this 'reform' popular. Are you saying millions more Americans are going to lose their jobs in the upcoming 3 years? If you lose your job now your health insurance is paid for somehow? How is it different now than it was before if you start your own business? You have to buy your own policy. You can't stay on your previous employers. If Americans now get sick they don't lose their health insurance. Pre-exiting conditions is the one area that needed to be improved, but now people can just pay the penalty & wait until they are sick before buying health insurance. Like being unisnsured & in a car accident & then calling Geico & they have to take you as a client. It is silly. In my opinion, millions of unemployed Americans will not be better off in 2012 than they were in 2008 & if I am right the dems will pay the political price.— NEPhilly
- Hate to interrupt the Mike and Friend lovefest, but during the elction of Scott Brown, the majority of Massachusetts liked their plan. Also, calling people who read (and learn) more than yourself has always been a tool of populist fascist movements. Friend, I doubt you ever worked digging ditches or farming seawater so you're probably a loser who lives in a homeless shelter. Does that make sense? No. Am I qualified to say that to you? No. Get into the game and make points instead of criticizing the writer.— HandNik
- Is the IRS really hiring 15,000 new agents to enforce and coerce this program on the American people? What country is this? But this insurance for face fines or imprisonment? nice!
- Meant to say buy this insurance or face fines or imprisonment. sorry
- Back on topic. Romney is a changeling. There can be no question about that, none. He has people around him telling him that it's OK to flop positions because no one will remember. That didn't work in '08; people remembered. It won't work in '12. He is a classic case of an insular politician who has no connection with what folks are doing and thinking. But if he wants to spend his millions tilting at windmills again, at least he'll be strengthening the economy.— HeywoodEm
- Maybe Obama better cross the T's and dot the I's before taking a victory lap reselling his healthcare bill. Under the new law, insurance companies still would be able to refuse new coverage to children because of a pre-existing medical problem, said Karen Lightfoot, spokeswoman for the House Energy and Commerce Committee, one of the main congressional panels that wrote the bill Obama signed into law Tuesday.
- Any of our friends on the left want to address this? ***President Obama delivered his gift today to House Democrats who provided the margin of victory in Sunday's health care vote: Signing an executive order re-asserting restrictions on the use of federal funds for abortion. The event provided a stark contrast to yesterday's health care bill signing in an East Room packed with whooping, cheering Democrats -- this one took place in the Oval Office with 14 Democratic lawmakers, and no press allowed in to witness. "It ensures that health care, the law the President signed yesterday, maintains the status quo of the federal law prohibiting the the use of federal dollars for abortion," said White House spokesman Robert Gibbs.*** http://content.usatoday.com/communities/theoval/post/2010/03/obama-signs-order-re-affirming-ban-on-federal-funds-for-abortion/1?loc=interstitialskip— NEPhilly
- Ron Paul won the straw poll. Which to me indicates the ideological battle within the Republican party is being won by those on the libertarian side of the argument. We need to run someone who can get back to basics like fiscal responsibility, self reliancy, low taxes, small government, pro business and free markets-not crony capitalism. If we stick to that the coalition of independents and conservatives will remake the Republican party and it will easily win elections. There will always be the 30% who clamor for more government to provide services that they do not have to pay for- It's not worth catering to that voting block as self reliancy is never going to appeal to them.
- This regime just cannot stop spending money. Basically the government will pay the pensions for prior employees of defunct unionized trucking companies. http://investors.yrcw.com/releasedetail.cfm?ReleaseID=454243
- Chris, of course people will keep their insurance if they lose their jobs (isn't that called COBRA) and they can get insurance if they start their own business. BUT, they will still have to pay for it, or else go on Medicaid, right? It isn't going to be free, is it?— tom - wilmington, de
- NEPHILLY; I wish the republicans WOULD run a 'real' conservative in 2012. Who would that be exactly? Are their any right of center (not extremes like Palin and Huckaby)Republicans that have a chance? The Republicans have to stop listening to their extreme base and admit that what they are saying isn't going to work. I have a hard time believing that they will do that. Until they do I cannot be expected to vote for them. (I did by the way vote for Reagan in 1984 and Bush in 1988).— James TL
- MOCKY: Death threats to Dem. Congressman, their families, and damage to one of their private homes. 10 Dem. Congressman asking for more protection for them and their families. ............... I know it either didn't happen without you seeing it, or it's a far left wing trick to blame little old ladies from the tea party who wouldn't bend a wing on a fly. Imagine blaming a Conse 'Pub!!— Talvenada
- JamesTL- You are just repeating left wing talking points. When the Republican party runs liberals masking as conservatives we tend to lose. See John McCain. We won in Mass and NJ and Va by touting fiscal responsibilty and low taxes and won.
- Sounds mild compared to the tactics used by Bill Ayers of weather underground fame. Maybe they will make the culprits esteemed professors of Education at the Univ. of Illinios.— Alvenada
- NEPhilly and Tom, If you lose your job, you can continue your insurance via COBRA as long as you can pay for it. However, if you lose your job, you may not be able to pay for it. What if you want to start your own business but a family member has a pre-existent condition. You will not be able to get that person covered at all. (This is the reason some people stay in jobs just for the benefits, even though they would rather do something else. The American dream is to work for yourself but insurance policy over the past sixty years has hindered that. NEP, the difference now is that you can buy into a policy as the same rate as everybody else. I know a number of independent business men and women who dropped their health insurance years ago because it became unaffordable. As for myself, I have insurance through my employer, but over the past 8 years, my salary has increased by 20+ percent but my takehome has gone down every year. And I consider myself lucky.— Chris Landee
- Maybe I am running low on sympathy for the trumped up allegations of intimidation by some democrats. conservative speakers are regularly subjected to violent attacks on college campuses. Bill Kristol, Pat Buchanan, David Horowitz and I have all been the targets of infamous campus attacks.— Alvenada
- DINGELL must resign!! Zero tolerance!! Replace him with Mark Sanford or John Ensign or Larry Craig or David Vitter. These are men that did the right thing!!— Talvenada
- MOCKY: You got death threats to your children? That is tame? Compared to what carrying out the threats? If they start killing, you are going to say the left does the same thing, right? Trumped-up, all lies, right? Fox NEWS should come out and prove your thinking!!— Talvenada
- Alvenada : and now the death threats? How about the following? "RICHMOND, Va. — Authorities are investigating a severed propane line at the home of a Virginia congressman's brother after tea party activists posted the man's address online. Activists are upset about U.S. Rep. Tom Perriello's vote in favor of the health care reform. Perriello's office said that a line to a propane tank on a gas grill was cut at Bo Periello's Charlottesville home on Tuesday. Tea party activists had posted the address online thinking it was the congressman's home, telling opponents to drop by and "express their thanks" for his vote."— still_independent
- Now I am confused. Talvenda says children are being threatened but Still Independent posts a story about a propane line cut on back yard grill. Hopefully they catch the bandits.— Alvenada
- MOCKY: Both happened. Take your head out of the sand to clear out the cobwebs of confusion between your ears. VANDERBOEGH said: Do you know there are rifles coming out of the closet to be cleaned for action? Like you, he wants his country back!! Whatever it takes is approved!!!— Talvenada
- MOCKY: I know his brother had the nerve to vote for the bill, and he got what he deserved!!— Talvenada
- Who is Vanderboegh? Sheesh you're confusing. Hey what is your website? I wanna check out one of your baseball articles.— Alvenada
- MOCKY: Vanderboegh is from the Western Rifle Shooters Association, and he is encouraging bricks thru Dem. Congressional Offices to send the message to vote against health care. He doesn't want to go past property damage to achieve that goal, but he will if he doesn't get what he wants. ........... I'm finishing my final preseason article before my game 1 preview. Once the season starts I don't have any time left over for any kind of posting other than baseball articles and self-marketing. Anyone interested: go to http://isportsweb.com/ under baseball, MLB, NL East and/or Phillies. Hope you like it. You have no idea what a 162-game schedule with 3 rounds of postseason is like until you experience it.— Talvenada
- Alvenada: here's more "At least two Congressional district offices were vandalized and Representative Louise M. Slaughter, a senior Democrat from New York, received a phone message threatening sniper attacks against lawmakers and their families. Ms. Slaughter also reported that a brick was thrown through a window of her office in Niagara Falls and Representative Gabrielle Giffords, Democrat of Arizona, said on Monday that her Tucson office was vandalized after the vote. The Associated Press reported that the authorities in Virginia were investigating a cut propane line to an outdoor grill at the home a brother of Representative Tom of Virginia, after the address was mistakenly listed on a Tea Party Web site as the residence of the congressman. Representative Bart Stupak, Democrat of Michigan and a central figure in the measure’s abortion provisions, reported receiving threatening phone calls. Representative James E. Clyburn of South Carolina, the highest-ranking black lawmaker in the House, received an anonymous fax showing the image of a noose. " .... "Paul Bresson, a spokesman for the F.B.I, said the bureau was aware of several threats against members of Congress and was investigating them jointly with the Capitol Police, which handles security for Congress, and local law enforcement agencies" .... Yep, can't stand the trumped up allegations of intimidation by Democrats.— still_independent
- Alvenada: I looked him up. Vanderboegh is a "three percenter" blogger (three percenters are named after the unsubstantiated notion that only 3 percent of the colonists actively fought in the Revolution). He's a scary guy, and not alone. I only broght up the propane thing because most of the conservatives here HOWLED when anti-prop 98 activists posted some addresses on the web. It's apparently OK when the tea baggers do it, though.— still_independent
- swedesboromike: "When the Republican party runs liberals masking as conservatives we tend to lose. See John McCain" ... Do you realize that by your standards, Barry "Mr. Conservative" Goldwater is a liberal? The more I read about the man, I realize that I'm a Goldwater conservative. There's a reason he told Bob Dole in 1996 "We're the new liberals of the Republican party. Can you imagine that?"— still_independent
- Well hopefully they catch los bandidos! At least they didn't make a movie musing about assasinating President Bush. I am still waiting for the outrage from the left over that one.— Alvenada
- Alvaneda: between publicly making the movie (which was inappropriate) and putting your name on the credits, or throwing bricks through windows and anonymously faxing nooses (which I'm sure has no racial overtones), I'll take the open and public display.— still_independent
- Still: faxing nooses? Maybe its the white wine my wife and I have been drinking as we watch American Idol or maybe I am just off tonight. I admit to taking a break from the minute to minute chatter of politics but am I missing here?— Alvenada
- So Sorry- I meant to say what am I missing here.— Alvenada
- Still: OK, I see your post below. If all this stuff is happening this should be about as easy a caper to solve as the guy who walks through the snow from his house to rob the business next store. In this day and age sending a fax is an easy trace back to the sender. So I am sure they will get caught.— Alvenada
- Alvenada : white wine and American Idol? Gotta admit, that sort of threw me. Anyway, see the 8:53 posting.— still_independent
- Alvenada : now I missed your last. Maybe I should start drinking ...— still_independent
- Still: Yes, I see it, but this stuff cuts both ways in and in no way should be used to demonize the political oppostion as a whole. . Whoever is doing this stuff will get caught. The real issues are what do we do with the 13 trillion in debt, our unfunded obligations to the programs we already have, taxes, deficits, jobs, Iran, Iraq, and Afghanistan.— Alvenada
- Alvenada : agreed. But that's different than some that pretend it doesn't happen. Or those that only decry it when it's "the other guy" doing it.— still_independent
- Tal Vendada: I heard both Chase Utley and Jason Werth are Republicans. What are going to do now!— Alvenada
- Back to the real issues/ http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/36025681/ns/us_news-life/— Alvenada
- MOCKY: You'll be missing the fireworks of this cocktail. You take pols who yell "baby killer," apologize, and then push for donations based on their misspeaking. You add right wing talkers calling Dems the enemy on a daily basis. You add health care with a civil-rights implication (taxpayers paying health care for welfare deadbeats. What color are welfare deadbeats? What's the first color that comes to a Conse 'Pub's mind? You add militia members looking for an excuse to defend America from Muslims like Obama with rifles. As you know, Obama is deliberately trying to ruin the country, and they want their country back. This cocktail is blood red, funereal black with the intoxicating taste of a constitutional revolution. We are at the point of property damage, and the next step is a physical example: human pain, human maiming or human death. Fireworks are boiling to the explosion point. All we need is a hero with a rifle and bullets to tell some how to take their country back from the deadbeat in The WH.— Talvenada
- MOCKY: The good thing about baseball is I don't care if Curt Schilling is a Conse 'Pub. Only what he does on the field.— Talvenada
- MOCKY: I don't care about demonizing 'Pubs, but if they start taking physical action against congressmen of only one party, there is no both sides do it.— Talvenada
- This is why I don't trust Romney.— Falls Ed
- Romney is another big government, overspending politician, just like his pals McCain, Obama, Clinton and Bush. When these guys have the Oval Office within grasp, they have no convictions, no scruples and no shame. The presidency has become too big a prize, with more power than ever. Congress needs to hold the executive branch in check, as outlined in our Constitution. But no, they prefer to be doormats as long some pork comes their way. The public is growing steadily impatient with their ways and would prefer a return to the limited government that was chartered by the Constitution.— Mark Glaeser
- Chris Landee, yes, you can get and continue coverage if you can pay for it. Hence my question which you failed to answer. What is so magical about Obamacare that the people you mention will be able to afford their coverage? It is not free, right? They still have to pay for it, right? A family of four making $50,000 still will have to pony up about $4,500 for their coverage, money they probably do not have just lying around. So, what is the panacea about Obamacare?— tom - wilmington, de
- still_independent, yes, you can change your mind and not be a hypocrite. However, it would be great if the mind change is explained, if the person came out and said "I was wrong, and this is a good idea", especially if they originally openly mocked the idea. As to the happenings surrounding those who voted for the measure, bricks through windows and faxed nooses are done by extremists and should stop. As to calling out of names, that is a constant ploy of the left. Remember the person who shouted "kill him" at that Scranton rally? The secret service never found anyone other than that one reporter who heard it. Does that mean it did not happen? NO. But like a person without an alibi that can be corroborated, it leads to suspicion. As for death threats, these guys probably all get death threats as a matter of routine. Look at what happens to Ann Coulter? Does the left get outraged about that? No. After the prop 8 vote in CA, people's names were printed and property destroyed by a mob and, except on Fox News, was there any outrage? People lost their jobs, their businesses suffered when their names were publicized. Where was the outrage then, the silence was deafening. Sure, it may have been reported, but no condemnation. Those people and actions are justified, they are just carrying out their outrage of being denied rights, so that makes it okay. Death threats are a way of life for people in the public eye who rally to a cause, who get opinions riled, and who make controversial decisions. These guys should just get a cup and deal with it. My guess is it is not the first time it has happened, but conveniently now they can paint the right as the radicals doing it.— tom - wilmington, de
- And the band just keeps on playing. From Politico.."Democrats killed an amendment by Republican Sen. Tom Coburn to prevent the newly created insurance exchanges from using federal money to cover Viagra and other erectile dysfunction drugs for rapists, pedophiles and other sex offenders. The amendment failed 57-42..." Yep, those ads coming up to November will just keep getting better and better. Note to Alvenada, white wine and American Idol? Are you that hard up for getting some? Sheesh!!!— tom - wilmington, de
- From the same Politico story..."Democratic Sen. Max Baucus urged his colleagues to defeat the amendment. "This is a serious bill. This is a serious debate. The amendment offered by the senator from Oklahoma makes a mockery of the Senate, the debate and the American people. It is not a serious amendment. It is a crass political stunt aimed at making 30-second commercials, not public policy," he said." Sure, ED drugs for rapists and pedophiles is not a serious issue, is it? It may make for 30 second commercials, but what great 30 second commercials they will make.— tom - wilmington, de
- Why is this blog called "DP's American Debate"? Relentlessly posting one view point doesn't seem to be true to the "Debate" context of the title. Instead of 'Debate", perhaps "Soapbox" would be more apt.— PeterMyers
- Obama is going around the country saying the bill provides coverage children with pre-existing conditions. Ooops, no it doesn't. That needs to be changed later in the year. Gee, I wonder how that would have affected the CBO scoring?— tom - wilmington, de
- Politico is reporting that the Senate defeated an amendment from Sen Tom Coburn preventing pedophiles, rapists and other predators from using a government plan/subsidy to obtain drugs such as viagara and cialis. The vote was 57-42. Max Baucus urged the amendment be defeated since "this is a serious bill", but the amendment was not a serious amendment. The Democrat party, the party that looks after predators rights.— tom - wilmington, de
- Mark Glaeser, you are correct. Thank goodness we have a fiscally responsible president in office with Obama. He has really reined in that government overspending and brought budget sanity back to Washington.— tom - wilmington, de
- Tom: you asked me : Note to Alvenada, white wine and American Idol? Are you that hard up for getting some? .................. heh, I gotta keep the wife happy. To be exact the wine was Pinot Grigio and I gotta say I had a better time than trying to translate Tal Venada's 11:28 post.— Alvenada
- Obamacare will get a few more people covered. But what "coverage" will mean is merely a place in line to await treatment. That line will grow longer and longer as expenses increase, as care is rationed, as the medical profession shrinks, as the incentives to innovate dry up and blow away, and as a bureaucracy dedicated chiefly to its own growth and preservation shifts the purpose of medicine away from healing and toward the making and enforcement of rules. In short, we will buy -- at tremendous expense, using money we don't have -- a system far inferior to the one we have now. And we'll hire 12,000 new IRS agents to enforce it. Welcome to the new Welfare State Ponzi Scheme. I think Bernie Madoff is blushing.
- MOCKY: My comment about militias wasn't clear, because Vanderboegh is involved in militia activity. This guy has gone over the line before, and is claiming to be doing that now.— Talvenada
- Comment removed.
- TOM: Did you like the Boehner approach to this situation? The Dems aren't listening to the people, and we need to vote people out rather than violence. Translation: you're right about health care, and right about them not doing what the people want. Basically, it's we don't want to offend voters who make ANY kind of threats, do physical damage of ANY kind, and pick up weapons with intent. But hey, we distanced ourselves from any violence, injury and assassinations that occur without losing a single vote from anybody. We still want the base whipped up to a frenzy, still are against violence without condemning it, but if it happens it happens without blame on us. Hey, maybe we can scare up enough house votes to kill the bill.— Talvenada
- Tal Venada: It is most certainly obvious that you are making a bigger deal of this in order to score political points. Unfortantely this kind of stuff happens all the time but your outrage is disengenious considering you are silent when the intimidation is perpetrated against conservatives. No one in condoning this. You are actually becoming quite a bore. Do you need me to write you a haiku?— Alvenada
- MOCKY: I know it's not a big deal if congressman get death threats, and not a big deal if those threats materialize. I know it's no big deal to you.— Talvenada
- MOCKY: I won't be posting once the baseball season starts, so how could I be scoring political points? For what, for when?— Talvenada
- “Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both.” -- Benjamin Franklin— Grazman
- tom: and there's no "outrage" over the current violence and intimidation now, either. It was merely pointed out to counter those that wrote here that it was ridiculous to think that protestors would have yelled racial and/or sexual orientation-related epithets at members of congress. If someone is willing to vandalize an office, they're probably willing to yell a slur. Look, none of this should impugne the vast majority of the protestors in DC. Many seemed to be a bit odd, and they were all wasting their time, but I'm sure that they were peaceful and just trying to make their point. Like many exercising their first ammendment rights, they seemd intolerantof anyone else doing the same that disagreed with them, but hey, that's what happens. However, several posters here simply dismissed the accusations, as if it were unthinkable, or worse yet, lies simply made up to discredit the protestors. That's the only reason it was brought up.— still_independent
- The poll finds that 62 percent want Congressional Republicans to keep challenging the bill, while 33 percent say they should not do so. Nearly nine in ten Republicans and two in three independents want the GOP to keep challenging. Even 41 percent of Democrats support continued challenges. http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503544_162-20001117-503544.html?tag=pop What makes this interesting article is 1. from CBS which tend to be liberal thinkers. 2. 41% of democrats support challenging the bill. --> the real issue remains the bill asserts that people become involved in preventative medicine. However, in education the largest issue is parents not being involved in the fostering of good study habits and the value of education. What makes the govt think all of sudden we have been unsuccessful at providing education to the masses, except for those who understand the value. What make govt think hey we can get people healthcare to the masses to even the people who do not value it?— Fisher
- I love the "academic twit" criticism. It's never well said when it's an insult. In in other words it sounds as if being an academic and running a business are mutually exclusive. If anything I recommend academic training for aspiring entrepaneurs. Can't disagree that it is tough to run a successful business. Sure there are taxes and regulations to contend with not to mention macroeconomic trends. Some businessmen I know resent paying minimum wage. In many cases of my unscientific observation, the reason for business failure is poor planning. Too many people don't know what they are doing and when the business fails they blame government regulations, bla, bla, bla. It's a cop out.— Rabe56
- dick, again you espouse the dem party talking points.— stevejones
- It's the Democratic party not the Democrat party.— Rabe56
- RABE: Firstly, they do that to insult the opposition, like Obama is a community organizer is a slam. I think mentioning anything they do is considered an outrage, like the current atmosphere is anger only. Everything else is ONE bad apple, and Conse 'Pubs are the victims of death threats and vandalism to Dems. Basically, they can be blamed for nothing, and outraged over the smallest thing. Their way is the ONLY way on everything.— Talvenada
As the right gets further and further to the away from reality, a centrist does look like a "leftist" to them from that perspective! BTW is Willard wearing his holy underwear for Armageddon?- Fernando---20 million Russians, under Soviet Communist leadership, died while destroying Hitler's Nazis. You have your bad guys and their respective symbols mixed up. Of course, if you get your history from Glenn Beck you'd have no way of knowing that.— Delaware Jim
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Cited by the Columbia Journalism Review as one of the nation's top political reporters, and lauded by the ABC News political website as "one of the finest political journalists of his generation," Dick Polman is a national political columnist at the Philadelphia Inquirer. He is on the full-time faculty at the University of Pennsylvania, as "writer in residence." Dick has been a frequent guest on C-Span, MSNBC, CNN, NPR and the BBC. He covered the 1992, 1996, 2000, and 2004 presidential campaigns.
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