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Wednesday, September 10, 2008

 

 

As I watched Joe Lieberman flack for John McCain at the GOP convention, I was reminded of the fate that befell Carlo Rizzi in The Godfather.

I happen to share the view, best articulated by Tom Hanks in one of his romantic comedies, that "The Godfather is the I-Ching. The Godfather is the sum of all wisdom." In the case of Lieberman, who has betrayed his party just as Carlo Rizzi betrayed the Corleones, one gets the sense that the Senate Democrats are patiently waiting for the opportunity to strike.

After Carlo set up Sonny Corleone for that hit at the tollbooth, years passed. Sonny's brother Michael bided his time until the day when he deemed it right and proper to "settle all family business." And here in real life, the moment may soon arrive - after the election, after the Senate Democrats presumably pick up a few more seats and safeguard their majority - when, metaphorically speaking, they will place Joe in the front seat of a car supposedly headed for the airport, and fat Clemenza in the back seat will slip the rope around Joe's neck, and squeeze so hard that the Joementum will propel the turncoat's feet through the windshield.

That's what seems likely to happen - but only if the Democrats have the guts to be as ruthless as the Republicans would surely be if one of their own former vice presidential nominees had showed up at the opposition convention to endorse the nominee and diss the GOP's candidate.

For now, Democrats appear to be playing it cool. They say that Lieberman (an independent who caucuses with the Democrats) is welcome to show up at their weekly luncheons, as always, even though Lieberman himself has decided not to attend. Senate Democratic leader Harry Reid is saying that Lieberman faces no imminent punishment. Senate Democrats did not interact with Lieberman when he showed up in the chamber two days ago, but few have been venting about Lieberman in public, saying only that they are "disappointed" with his behavior. And even though Lieberman's legislative director abruptly quit his job this week and gave no reason - the timing was suspicious, coming right after Lieberman's GOP convention appearance - the departing aide claimed only that he was hoping to explore other career opportunities.

Still, there have been rumblings, confirmed in high Democratic circles, that if the party expands its Senate majority - picking up anywhere from three to seven seats in the '08 elections, a very real possibility - then they won't need Joe anymore. Right now, with him in the Senate Democratic caucus, they have 51 votes. If they organize next January with, say, 55 or 56 seats, they can safely strip him of the Homeland Security Committee chairmanship, and kick him out of the party entirely.

Lieberman surely would not be surprised; he's not living as obliviously as Carlo Rizzi, who actually believed he would become Michael Corleone's "man in Vegas." Lieberman's grievances with the party go way back, starting with the fact that he was waxed in the '04 presidential primaires (being a hawkish supporter of George W. Bush's Iraq disaster had something to do with that); and that he was embarrrassingly beaten by an anti-war candidate in his own Connecticut Senate primary two years later, forcing him to run and win the general election as an independent.

His support for McCain is not based on mere revenge, however; he obviously likes and respects McCain. But Democrats are quietly steamed about the extent of his support, the disdain he has voiced about Barack Obama, and his hypocrisy about hailing McCain as a nonpartisan figure (and framing his own endorsement as nonpartisan) while conveniently ignoring all the partisan lies concocted by the McCain campaign.

Lieberman has earned serious demerits for dissing Obama in his GOP convention speech, for condescendingly calling him a "young man," and suggesting (through rhetorical omissions) that he is not fit to be commander-in-chief. Worse yet, Lieberman's critics are incensed that this self-advertised figure of nonpartisan rectitude has remained silent while McCain  lies about Obama on a daily basis in the pursuit of partisan gain - claiming, for instance, that Obama will raise everybody's taxes, whereas, in factual reality, Obama's tax-raising plan exempts families earning less than $250,000 a year.

Meanwhile, a new McCain ad declares that Obama has supported "'comprehensive sex education' for kindergartners," whereas, in factual reality, Obama in the Illinois Senate supported giving local school boards the right to provide only "age-appropriate" information, in the hope of teaching young kids how to recognize inappropriate touching from sexual predators. Will Lieberman rise above the fray, as a nonpartisan independent supposedly would do, and condemn these kinds of partisan lies? Even McCain, while stopping well short of endorsing Democrat John Kerry in 2004, nevertheless publicly condemned the tactics of the Bush-friendly Swift Boaters.

But Lieberman at this point doesn't want to do anything that might jeopardize a McCain victory - because a McCain victory might be his only political salvation. McCain, as president, could rescue Lieberman from his Senate predicament by sticking him in the Cabinet or some other high-profile post. But if Obama wins, and the Senate Democrats wind up with enough new seats...cue that Godfather music. Assuming that the Democrats have the killer instinct for the deed. 

After all, if the GOP was in the same situation with one of their own, that wayward soul would already be wearing cement shoes on the mud floor of the Potomac.

 

 

Posted by Dick Polman @ 11:04 AM  Permalink | 125 comments
Comments   
Posted 12:41 AM, 09/12/2008
p-diddy
Mike: Ratcheting up incursions of U.S. military into Pakistan seems to be the popular wisdom on how to win the "War on Terror" right now. It's really weird that this position has been taken up by many Democrats as part of an anti-Bush agenda, despite the fact that this course of action would have very "Bush-like" repercussions.
Posted 07:32 PM, 09/11/2008
mike l
When Sen. Obama last year said he would go after bin laden in Pakistan if that country would not, despite the billions we've given it, mccain slammed him for being naive. That we couldn't go into a sovereign country (like Iraq wasn't?). However, shortly after a US drone took out an al-qaida camp and leader in Pakistan. Nary a word from mccain in protest. Last week, a combined US-Afghan op attacked a terrorist camp 20 miles inside Pakistan. Again, nary a word for or against from mccain. Today, it was revealed that the bush administration has given the go-ahead to use special ops in Pakistan and still no word from mccain. Why the heck not? If Obama was so naive, then what does that make our military? What does that make mccain, the guy with the plan to catch bin laden, but only if he's elected. The gates of hell are not in Pakistan, I guess. Which candidate is the one with guts? It doesn't appear to be mccain. He's all talk-the BS Express.
Posted 06:58 PM, 09/11/2008
p-diddy
still independent: A sizable chunk of Pakistan's population are moderates and do not "already hate us". This is not Afghanistan. Disrespecting Pakistan's territorial integrity, with the inevitable civilian casualties accompanying such action, would no doubt further inflame anti-American sentiment, destabilize the Pakistani government and serve to radicalize former moderates. Your attitude is glib. Furthermore, any American efforts inside Pakistan will be futile if the Pakistani government isn't onboard anyway. They have made clear in the strongest terms that U.S. military action on Pakistani soil is unacceptable. You are arguing that we should abandon Pakistani cooperation and ignore the sovereignty of Pakistan. Any gains from such a state of affairs would be outweighed by the resulting hostility. In any case, we can't do it without Pakistani help. Your attitude reeks of the sort of hubris associated with the Bush administration, and the American "War on Terror" policy in general.
Posted 02:30 PM, 09/11/2008
James TL
It seems that the government of Pakistan has no intention of stopping the terrorists within their borders. They promised to do this but have not done it. We have funnelled milions of dollars to them so they would fight the terrorists. Since they apparently won't do it I'm afraid it may be up to us. We canot allow these terrorists, who only goal is to bring down our way of life to continue to be a threat to America. Let's get out of Iraq (responsibly) and fight the real 9/11 terrorists. This is what Bush said he was going to do. So, lets do it!
Posted 02:29 PM, 09/11/2008
James TL
It seems that the government of Pakistan has no intention of stopping the terrorists within their borders. They promised to do this but have not done it. We have funnelled milions of dollars to them so they would fight the terrorists. Since they apparently won't do it I'm afraid it may be up to us. We canot allow these terrorists, who only goal is to bring down our way of life to continue to be a threat to America. Let's get out of Iraq (responsibly) and fight the real 9/11 terrorists. This is what Bush said he was going to do. So, lets do it!
Posted 01:20 PM, 09/11/2008
still_independent
p-diddy: whether or not I agreed w/ going to war in Iraq (I didn't), and whether or not I think we need to rethink our entire foreign policy vis-a-vis the middle east (I do), we are where we are. If I balance the dont-make-them-angrier approach, which at worst may further anger someone who already hates us, against the they're-already-attacking-us argument, I'll side with the latter. Again, they are already attacking us. If we suddently pull out, then they'll use that as propaganda against us as well. Leaving the Taliban alone in Afghanistan didn't work out se well before, why would it work better now?
Posted 12:19 PM, 09/11/2008
junethe4th
Again Modernmarge, what's your point? I suggested some discussion on the issues, and you turn back to bashing McCain. You mentioned that we can not drill ourselves out of this current enery situation. I did not mention anything about drilling. Yes, I'll agree Obama does favor limited drilling, and this only after realizing approx 70% of the US are open to more drilling. I can be snide about Obama's remarks on tune-ups and tire inflation, but no, that's common sense. I am in favor of exploiting all sources of energy, nuclear, solar, wind, oil, bio-fuels, water, even foot power. We have had 35 years to work on these problems. From the first oil embargo in 1973 to just 12 years ago when drilling in ANWR was vetoed we did nothing. Alternate sources of energy take time to develop. Frankly we are running out of time. Did you pay attention to the latest OPEC meeting results, they want to cut back production of oil. Why, because we here in the US took action by cutting back on our usage. OPEC is not making the big profits it was raping (yes this is correct) from just a couple months ago. Start discussing the issues and stop mimicing the empty-heads talking points.
Posted 11:05 AM, 09/11/2008
p-diddy
still independent: That's exactly the problem - many in the Middle East and the larger Muslim world perceive the U.S. to be an occupier, a state sponsor of terror and directly involved in the indiscriminate killing of civilians. Increasing U.S. military incursions into Pakistan and widening the "war of terror" will only solidify that belief, not to mention the destabilization of the Pakistani government.
Posted 10:30 AM, 09/11/2008
still_independent
p-diddy: if we were allowing our citizens to harbor the Taliban, al-Qaeda, Alman al-Zawahiri, and Osama bin Laden, and also allowing said groups to stage attacks (on U.S. and Nato troops, I might add) in a neighboring country, then we might be less than shocked if this resulted in an attack on our soil. Here's a thought. Spend the $80M a month we're paying you to crack down on Islamic militants and terrorists, and ... crack down on Islamic militants and terrorists.
Posted 10:10 AM, 09/11/2008
p-diddy
still independent: I think sending troops into Pakistan is totally stupid, considering just yesterday their government issued a warning that U.S. incursions into their sovereign territory are unacceptable. Such action undermines the Pakistani government by rallying support for militant Islamic groups there. Pakistan's "territorial integrity ... will be defended at all cost and no external force is allowed to conduct operations ... inside Pakistan," according to a military statement attributed to Chief of Army Staff Gen. Parvez Kayani. This is pure arrogance on America's part, considering dozens of Pakistani civilians have already been killed by American military actions inside Pakistan. The hypocrisy is unbelievable - can you imagine if another country's military killed American civilians on American soil?
Posted 09:46 AM, 09/11/2008
fetchez la vache
And from a different IG report in May regarding the RIK program, "While assisting in an Office of Inspector General (OIG) investigation initiated in 2006, the Royalty Initiatives Group found that the RIK Program had modified oil sale contracts without clear criteria, and that the modifications appeared to inappropriately benefit the oil companies. We reviewed 72 contracts comprising 718 individual bid packages awarded to companies during 2001 to 2006. Of the 718 bid packages awarded, 121 were modified, but only 3 of these modifications favored the government. While we did not do an in-depth analysis, we estimate the value of the modified bid packages not in favor of the government to be approximately $4.4 million." (http://www.doioig.gov/upload/2008-G-0021.txt) So when Obama questions the validity of drilling offshore and the President argues that it could be done very quickly, I question the honesty of the President since his administration is biblically intimate with the oil industry.
Posted 09:44 AM, 09/11/2008
fetchez la vache
tom, Here's another reason for cause to be concerned about the Bush admin. From today's WSJ, a report by the inspector general for the Interior Department that handles the offshore drilling leases found "...a 'culture of ethical failure' by allegedly accepting gifts from and having sex with industry representatives." (http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122107135333120223.html?mod=hpp_us_whats_news) Employees of the department housing the royalty-in-kind program "...'frequently consumed alcohol at industry functions, had used cocaine and marijuana, and had sexual relations with oil and gas company representatives,' the report said, adding that 'sexual relationships with prohibited sources cannot, by definition, be arms-length.' “ (Editorial Note by Me: I love that dig by the report writer that by definition sexual relationships cannot be arms length.) The article states, "The Minerals Management Service oversees the nation's natural-gas, oil and other mineral resources on the outer continental shelf, and its duties include drawing up leases for drilling in offshore waters. In some years, it is the second-largest source of revenue for the U.S. Treasury, behind only the Internal Revenue Service." One of the four companies named in the report, Chevron, has been additionally cited for refusing to cooperate in the investigation. Thanks to the compromised work by this fine agency, errors were committed that "government auditors have estimated will cost taxpayers as much as $10.5 billion over about 25 years."
Posted 09:22 AM, 09/11/2008
yobill626
tom: [another lost comment] --- I can't understand why you don't get this. McCain's party has run the Executive branch of our government for the last 7+ years (and with Cheney, they've run his fourth branch as well...). He can say he wasn't a part of it, but with the R after his name, he was. Just because the Gov & Lt Gov in DE are full of crap doesn't make him right.
Posted 09:14 AM, 09/11/2008
fetchez la vache
tom, You really need to brush up on those reading skills. From me yesterday at 1:55 PM: "According to CQ, John McCain voted in 2007 in support of the president’s position on legislation considered 95% of the time." What was not specific about that statement in regards to time period covered for the study. So, no it wasn't intellectually dishonest. And at least I posted information that softened my argument once I found it, which was after my original post. And I also provided supporting information for your assertion that Obama votes with his party. That's being intellectually honest. How's the search going for the 143 days? Are you even going to try to figure out where 143 days came from? And as still_independent stated last night, trying to pawn the 143 days off as something found elsewhere and not take responsibility for it once you posted it is an example of intellectual dishonesty. When you saw the stat you could have googled "143 days" and obama and come up with some arguments against the figure. It took me 5 minutes once SteveMG pointed me in the direction of what you were getting at with your argument. And once you found some arguments against the stat, you could have questioned whether it is a reliable figure.
Posted 09:14 AM, 09/11/2008
yobill626
tom: No, it just meanss the Gov & Lt. Gov in DE are as full of crap as McCain.
Posted 08:35 AM, 09/11/2008
still_independent
An interesting (and lengthy) read from local conservative talk show host Michael Smerconish on an issue you hear rarely discussed by either candidate (http://www.philly.com/dailynews/columnists/20080911_Michael_Smerconish_.html) ........ And bon, tom, lastRepub, et. all, ready for this? Yeah Bush! We're finally going to foray into Packistan. It's about six years too late, and it undercuts McCain's ridiculing of Obama when he suggested doing this during the primary, but it's still good. (http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/11/washington/11policy.html?hp)
Posted 08:32 AM, 09/11/2008
tom - wilmington, de
yobill, I find it funny that Obama is more of an agent of change because he is in the opposite party. Down here in DE, we just had a gubernatorial primary where the two Democrat candidates, one the Lt. Governor and the other the state Treasurer, both ran as agents of change.....from the current Democrat administration. So, it seems Democrats are using the change argument when it is against their own party as well. Funny.
Posted 08:27 AM, 09/11/2008
tom - wilmington, de
fetch, so to sum up your point....saying McCain has voted with George Bush either 90% or 95% of the time without the caveat that those figures only relate to specific year or two is...in your words....intellectually dishonest. And just out of curiousity, which of Bush's economic policies would you want Obama to reverse, besides, of course, the tax cuts.
Posted 04:48 AM, 09/11/2008
SCB
Xi Jah: It's called a metaphor. It is often used in intelligent writing and conversation. Polman doesn't actually advocate the killing of Joe Lieberman or anyone else. It is equivilent to the "pig with lipstick on" quote that the Republicans are making such a fuss about because, like their fundamentalist supporters, they take everything literally. Good God, man, get a grip!
Posted 01:05 AM, 09/11/2008
yobill626
Tonight Craig Ferguson spent the first two segments of his show screaming at the Americans who don't vote & actually showing them how to register. Leave it to a guy who just became a citizen last year to show others how lucky they are to be Americans.
Posted 12:51 AM, 09/11/2008
yobill626
The Cons seem to think we Dems hate Pal Joey for his support of McCain. It is obvious the two of them are real friends who share common views. Our disgust with him goes back much further than that. His truly lame work with Gore. His obvious 2004 oriented political stances during the Florida recount. To me the worst was his consistent allowance of the Bushies to use him as a tool. It was apparent to me that the genuiness that exists between him & McCain never was there with Bush. He was used for photos. It seemed to me he was too busy sucking up to even notice.
Posted 12:46 AM, 09/11/2008
p-diddy
I've never heard McSame deny that he voted for Bush's policies 90% of the time. McSame's not denying it because it's true.
Posted 12:43 AM, 09/11/2008
p-diddy
Hey Tom, why are you dumping on Bush? After all, you voted for the man twice.
Posted 12:40 AM, 09/11/2008
p-diddy
The idea that the Republicans are going to bring change after 8 years of Bush is the most ludicrous BS I've ever heard. McSame supported Bush 90% of the time, and we're supposed to believe that he is an agent of change? Say no to the Torture Party!
Posted 12:35 AM, 09/11/2008
p-diddy
Please, bipartisanship is one thing, endorsing the other party's presidential candidate, giving a speech at the other party's convention and openly jockeying for a spot in the other candidate's cabinet is another thing. Lieberman knows that he will never be reelected as an Independent or Republican in CT, so he's throwing all his chips in with McSame. If Obama wins, Lieberman's career is over, plain and simple. But Lieberman is such a phony. There's footage of the guy on Youtube talking about how he's going to do his all to help elect a Democrat to the White House in 2008.
Posted 12:30 AM, 09/11/2008
yobill626
fetch: Bush is like kryptonite to McCain right now. How ironic is it that for the guy who campaigned on "restoring dignity to the WH" is being followed by one of his own campaigning on needing to change --- from him! By the way, excellent posts!
Posted 12:18 AM, 09/11/2008
yobill626
tom: Obama is certainly more of an agent of change than McCain can ever be simply by his being a member of the party NOT in the WH. Whether he can actually do it is a different assertion. With McCain spending the last 2-3 years ingratiating himself with his support of Bush, & then pulls his Grandpa Simpson routine "I will change WaRRshington" his claim just doesn't make sense.
Posted 12:18 AM, 09/11/2008
fetchez la vache
tom, The FactCheck article provides a link to CQ, but unfortunately you need to be a subscriber to get to the voting analysis. As to the change issue, I don't believe that Obama is positioning it as an issue of who could be more of a change from their respective party. When he is talking about change, he's talking about change from the Bush admin, which has an unfavorable rating of 29%. (http://pollster.com/polls/us/jobapproval-bush.php) So when I and others assert that McCain is not the agent of change, it's in relation to Bush. (Check my previous postings and you will not see any statements asserting McCain vs his party against Obama vs. his party) Reframing the argument does not change the fact that McCain votes in step with the Bush admin. Why is that such a bad thing? Unless, of course, one believes that the Bush admin has been a disaster for the country. Otherwise, stand tall and proud and proclaim that McCain voted for the Bush admin's position between 77% and 95% of the time. I'm sure Bush would be proud to have McCain go around the country and state that he would continure the Bush policies between 77% and 95% of the time. Heck, Bush might even campaign with McCain. I bet McCain would love that.
Posted 12:03 AM, 09/11/2008
fetchez la vache
Part two from FactCheck.org (Since postings here are limited to 2,000 characters) "The McCain campaign points out that Obama told a local TV interviewer recently that "the only bills that I voted for, for the most part, since I've been in the Senate were introduced by Republicans with George Bush." Obama was actually wrong about that. In 2006 he voted alongside the president 49 percent of the time, and in 2005, the year before Democrats took control of the Senate, Obama voted with the president only 33 percent of the time. Also, Obama voted in line with fellow Senate Democrats 97 percent of the time in 2007 and 2005, and 96 percent of the time in 2006, according to CQ. And so . . . So to sum up, McCain has indeed voted to support the unpopular Bush 95 percent of the time most recently, but less so in earlier years. And Obama has voted pretty close to 100 percent in line with fellow Democrats during his brief Senate career."
Posted 12:01 AM, 09/11/2008
fetchez la vache
tom, From FactCheck.org of the Univ. of Penn Annenberg Public Policy Center, a fairly non-partisan site (http://www.factcheck.org/askfactcheck/is_it_true_john_mccain_voted_with.html) "Q: Is it true John McCain voted with George Bush 95 percent of the time? The Obama campaign keeps claiming McCain has voted with President Bush 95 percent of the time. Is this true? Is this significant? A: Yes, it's true, according to Congressional Quarterly's assessment of McCain's voting record. Sen. Barack Obama has attempted to use the Arizona senator's voting record against him in statements like this: Barack Obama (June 3): It's not change when John McCain decided to stand with George Bush 95 percent of the time, as he did in the Senate last year. The claim is true. According to Congressional Quarterly's Voting Studies, in 2007 McCain voted in line with the president's position 95 percent of the time – the highest percentage rate for McCain since Bush took office – and voted in line with his party 90 percent of the time. However, McCain's support of President Bush's position has been as low as 77 percent (in 2005), and his support for his party's position has been as low as 67 percent (2001). Democrats are, of course, attempting to make the case that a vote for McCain is a vote to continue the policies of Bush, whose approval ratings are, to put it charitably, not a political asset for McCain. Is 95% "Significant"? As for whether voting with Bush 95 percent of the time last year is "significant," that's a matter of opinion that we leave to readers to determine for themselves. When doing so, they may wish to consider that Obama's votes were in line with the president's position 40 percent of the time in 2007. That shouldn't be terribly surprising. Even the Senate's Democratic leader, Harry Reid of Nevada, voted with Bush 39 percent of the time last year, according to the way Congressional Quarterly rates the votes."
Posted 11:03 PM, 09/10/2008
tom - wilmington, de
Oh, and by the way, 81.1% is also not 90% as stated constantly in the media and this site, and it is also not a guaranteed Bush third term.
Posted 11:01 PM, 09/10/2008
tom - wilmington, de
yoda...the goal is not $1.50 gas or to just drill forever. The goal is to get more domestically produced oil that will/should be used for US consumers, send less money to the Middle East (even though Canada is our number one oil exporter), and use our oil until the other energy sources are more readily available. Like it or not, oil is the fuel that powers our economy at the moment, and that will not change overnight. You need to be a little more realistic.
Posted 10:58 PM, 09/10/2008
tom - wilmington, de
From January 3, 2001, to present, McCain voted with his party a total of 1,687 out of 2,081 votes, for a percentage of 81.1%. I cannot find from where I got the 74%, I probably messed it up. However, the 81.1% is voting with the Republican party, which may or may not be the same as voting with Bush. I do not know the breakdown on these votes...some may be duplicate votes on the same bills for one reason or another. The souce for the above is the Washington post vote database http://projects.washingtonpost.com/congress/members/m000303/. For anyone interested, Obama has voted with his party a total of 935 times out of a total 982 votes, for a 95.2% average. Now, who is the real maverick and agent of change?
Posted 10:50 PM, 09/10/2008
yoda
Wow...drill here, drill now, see results in 5-8 years...yeah, that will really solve this problem and get us all back to $1.50 gas...what is so hard to understand about needing to use LESS FFFFIN OIL so we don't need to drill and pollute all the seashores? You think California or Florida (no longer a wholly owned subsididary of the Bush Empire) or New Jersey is going to allow drilling that could foul their beaches for years? DREAM ON. Believe it or not, they get a vote too. Hello, democracy! The play here is green energy...unfortunately, China is the biggest investor in that these days, and if we don't get someone with a brain in charge of America they will own a market bigger than Big Oil, and they will own America. And if you don't like it, you can totally blame it on the "drill here drill now" crowd....
Posted 10:40 PM, 09/10/2008
tom - wilmington, de
Marge, McCain has been expounding on the virtue of clean coal, wind, solar, hydro, biofuels, nuclear, natural gas, as well as drilling (you need to drill to get natural gas too). As T. Boone Pickens says in his ads, we cannot drill our way out of the oil mess, but since the new technology is not yet available, drilling for more oil will act as a bridge between now and then. Who knows when renewable energy sources will be available in enough quantity and at a reasonable cost, so drilling is a nice way to close that gap.
Posted 10:40 PM, 09/10/2008
tom - wilmington, de
Marge, McCain has been expounding on the virtue of clean coal, wind, solar, hydro, biofuels, nuclear, natural gas, as well as drilling (you need to drill to get natural gas too). As T. Boone Pickens says in his ads, we cannot drill our way out of the oil mess, but since the new technology is not yet available, drilling for more oil will act as a bridge between now and then. Who knows when renewable energy sources will be available in enough quantity and at a reasonable cost, so drilling is a nice way to close that gap.
Posted 10:35 PM, 09/10/2008
tom - wilmington, de
McCain on the 2001 Bush tax cuts: "At the time, McCain publicly criticized it as a plan that had not been outlined well. "We are about to enact one of the most massive tax cuts in memory or history, and we do not have any idea how much money is going to be devoted to defense spending and how much is going to be left over for it." McCain on the 2003 Bush tax cuts: "Two years later, on the day before the U.S. invaded Iraq, McCain declared on the Senate floor that he could not vote for a second package of tax cuts worth $350 billion, most of which went to wealthy investors. "I cannot in good conscience vote in favor of tax cuts irrespective of their size or to which segment of the population they are targeted," he said." Both quotes are from a story on NPR.org on whether the Bush/McCain voting record assertions are accurate. Fetch..I cut and pasted the above directly from the article.
Posted 10:09 PM, 09/10/2008
ModerateMarge
Dear June4 - The point about fact check and other non partisan sites is how pervasive out and out lies about McCain and his ticket have been lately in their zeal to make this election about personality and not about issue. Drill and drill now will not lead us out of an energy crisis. Most including Obama are for more drilling along with conservation and other energies to replace oil. The Republican soundbites are frankly dumb and disingenous.
Posted 09:45 PM, 09/10/2008
still_independent
Tom: first, you never did cite the 74% average. In any case, what does "143 day claim did not originate with me...it has been around for quite some time. Stop acting like I made it up" mean? I can go to any left or right wing website, see something, and tout it, since I didn't make it up? That pretty much sums up intellectual dishonesty. Case in point, the oft-repeated "spending cuts". McCain did vote against the tax cuts, but it's only now that he talks about spending cuts to accompany them. I tried and couldn't find any quotes from him from 2001 or 2003 talking about spending cuts in conjunction with the tax cuts. I can find lots of Dem-sounding quotes like he couldn't "in good conscience support a tax cut in which so many of the benefits go to the most fortunate among us." and "I'd like to see much more of this tax cut shared by working Americans. . . . I think it still devotes too much of it to the wealthiest Americans." I did find one passing reference to deficit, but that was about it. Don't get me wrong, I agreed with him voting against the cuts (although for me, it was about spending and pay-as-go).
Posted 09:32 PM, 09/10/2008
yoda
Puttinonthefoil, I would love to agree with you, but there is a crucial difference now - Lil' Bush got appointed Prez after 8 years of relatively responsible political government by Clinton, and 8 years of solidly responsible economic government by Robert Rubin (when was the last time anyone saw a $300B surplus? Yes, under Clinton!). McSame would take control of a government eviscerated by right-wing purges, enervated by ideological orthodoxy, and stripped of virtually all competent upper management through attrition or just plain disgust at the wretched leadership. So, Bush started from, say, +50...McSame (or Obama) is starting from somewhere like -800. Policies and intelligence will be crucial. McSame doesn't seem to have anything for the former except more of the McSame, and he seems to have lost whatever he ever had of the latter. Not to mention his integrity - he has become a lying tool of Karl Rove, and the only thing to his credit I can say is that in the last vicious lying ad he took responsibility for, he actually seemed to feel guilty - shifty eyes, fidgeting, wavering voice - he knows what he is doing. And he doesn't care about his country, or his fellow citizens, or anyone but John McSame. He's lost it all.
Posted 08:55 PM, 09/10/2008
fetchez la vache
JeffA, Include me in on the long and distinguished list of people that will be laying claim to "Caribou Barbie"
Posted 08:54 PM, 09/10/2008
fetchez la vache
tom, The extent of my research on the 90% was looking at another source that cited CQ. I tried to find the primary source but could not. I wish I could. Even more so, I wish I could find the primary on his voting record over Bush's term in order to evaluate hopw close he is to Bush. I didn't take a pill. Instead, I went for a quick 2 mile run while listening to London Calling. If I ever get a song stuck in my head and I can't dislodge it (like the Journey song after the Sopranos finale), I just start singing Death or Glory to myself and soon I get rid of the other song. So now I have chilled. Good night tom. And I hate to say it while the Phils season is still alive, but E-A-G-L-E-S, EAGLES!! (After a while, that fight song got boring on Sunday at the Linc. At the end of the game, me and the guys in my section couldn't even remember who scored the last touchdown for the Birds)
Posted 08:44 PM, 09/10/2008
JimR
puttinonthefoil, Luca faked a Lieberman, got a REALLY bad manicure, and now shares a condo with Charlie the Tuna.
Posted 08:39 PM, 09/10/2008
JimR
Tom, you can't lump supporters (and what the interpret) as anointed spokespersons for a candidate. Conservatives have wrestled with support from fringe backers for years....those who KNEW the code words for race hating and plans to purify the country. They were crackpots and sane people knew it. BTW, Saddam Hussein was a big Reagan backer. Obama and McCain have both repudiated supporters who were loonies. JeffA "Caribou Barbie." That's in a class by itself. That will be stolen - shamelessly.
Posted 08:34 PM, 09/10/2008
tom - wilmington, de
How do you know when Obama is lying? First you need for him to once tell the truth so you have a baseline to measure against.
Posted 08:34 PM, 09/10/2008
tom - wilmington, de
fetch, I took a pill. Got quite a good buzz too. I never stated McCain was against Bush, but Democrats constantly say McCain voted with Bush 90% of the time when that is incorrect over the course of the entire 8 years. Maybe in 2007 or 2006 he voted the 90% of the time, but that is never included in the text when the % is stated. Again, if you believe the part of the quote I left out was germaine to the meaning of his statement, then we need to agree to disagree. Maybe I should have put a .....in there, but to me it has no significance. Pardon me for not including that portion of the statement. I wish I could do like a Senator and revise and extend my post, but I cannot. Either way, to me it bears no weight. It was simply an oversight as I was typing while listening to the Youtube video and listening to the Phils blow another game...it was quite upsetting. The 143 day claim did not originate with me...it has been around for quite some time. Stop acting like I made it up....I suppose you researched the 90% of the time assertion too right? I am a lot of things, but I like to believe I am not intellectually dishonest. Intellectually challenged maybe. But any oversight in typing a quote is simply a mistake, like that quote from earlier. Have a great night.
Posted 08:16 PM, 09/10/2008
Fernando08
How do you know that McCain is lying? His republican lips are moving.
Posted 07:19 PM, 09/10/2008
puttinonthefoil
Let's be reasonable, folks. If McCain wins, it cannot possibly be as bad as the last 8 years. Seriously. No way. Temporality will finally relieve us in 2009 and good riddance at that. With that being said, the Palin decision and all it entails is so disturbing to me, since it demonstrates a symbolic gesture to the far right whacko base that got us here - and if you are wondering whom I would pick should the unsavory choice between a fundamentalist and a socialist present itself, I'd pick the latter. So, I am hoping that if McCain wins, that the Palin pick was just a stunt to get him into office and when MAJOR generation defining decisions are at hand (SCOTUS anyone?), he won't just ram some selection from the Heritage Foundation & Co. down our throats. This must be any sane Obama voter's hope should Obama lose. Man, if only McCain could've overcome in 2000 the tactics his camp is now using. And finally - what about Luca Brasi?
Posted 07:04 PM, 09/10/2008
fetchez la vache
tom, why don't you chill out. I'm not the one going around making outrageous claims like 143 days. Or that Obama voted for the Bridge to Nowhere (ignoring the fact that it was part of a much larger appropriations bill). Or selectively taking parts of a quote from Obama at the time of his election. Or claiming that McCain is against the President when his voting record shows otherwise. I'm not going to apologize for you being intellectually dishonest. If you don't like having your assertions challenged, then put the facts out there as they stand and don't shade them in such a manner as to fit your narrative. Otherwise, if I see something that is either an outright falsehood or is intellectually dishonest I will speak up. I've never called you a liar or an idiot. You're too smart for that. But in formulating your arguments, you only take what fits your needs. And yeah, I've been to the Capital. And I know that a legislative session can last as few as a couple of minutes. But I'm not so lazy as to rely on some lame stat like 143 days that can't be verified because no one has taken the time to tabulate every minute of Obama's (or McCain's) whereabouts and whether they were doing something legislatively related.
Posted 06:53 PM, 09/10/2008
tom - wilmington, de
McCain/bush voting record, a lot of the votes are symbolic. Obama had I believe a 43% record of voting with Bush in 2007. McCain voted against Bush on the tax cuts, stem cell funding, constitutional amendment banning same sex marriage, global warming just to name a few of the bigger ones. In 2006, National Journal rated McCain the 46th most conservative Senator. He has voted with his party only 88.3% of the time in the current Congress (not counting votes he's missed). That must be the origin of the 90% figure. I actually got my figures from the Washington Post, which has a database on all members of Congress and their votes. By contrast, Obama voted with his party 96% of the time during the current Congress. Since being in office, Obama has actually voted with the GOP on 22 votes (and against his own party a grand total of 26 times). I do not subscribe to Congressional Quarterly
Posted 06:30 PM, 09/10/2008
tom - wilmington, de
Democrats are really losing it. Today, Congressman Steve Cohen said on the House floor in a speech that change will come with the Democrat party and "Jesus was a community organizer, Pontius Pilate was a governor". Yesterday, Donna Brazile (sic) said "Jesus was a community organizer, Pontius Pilate was a governor". The other day, a retired Congressman (forget his name) said the same thing. And also today, the Chairwoman of the South Carolina Democrat Party said that McCain chose Palin based on the single qualification that "she never had an abortion". David Patterson (gov of NY) said Palin's belittling of Obama as a community organizer was "racially charged". I am glad Obama is against the politics of fear and name calling, against swiftboating and wants to discuss the issues. Too bad his surrogates and others in the Democrat party want to do otherwise.
Posted 06:21 PM, 09/10/2008
tom - wilmington, de
fetch, I will put this in simple terms. McCain was against the Bush tax cuts because they were not accompanied by any spending cuts. He is now for making them permanent because, as I am sure you are aware, allowing them to expire amounts to a tax increase for everybody...raising the lowest rate back up to 15% etc. McCain is against any type of tax increase. He has stated, and continues to state, that he will reduce spending to offset making the tax cuts permanent. But not making them permanent is equal to putting through a tax increase, which McCain believes would harm the economy. Got it?
Posted 06:19 PM, 09/10/2008
tom - wilmington, de
fetch, chill out. To the 143 days point, I am merely stating from where that statement originated. I have no way of knowing what else Obama was doing on those days, but do you really believe that the Senate is working every day it is in session? Some days, as during the August recess, they simply gavel the session open and then put in a motion to close the session. You are either naive or just being plain disingenuous yourself to try and assert that EVERY day they are in session according to the legislative calendar all 100 Senators and 435 Congressmen/women are in the chambers debating legislation. Have you ever toured the Capitol? I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and say two years. As for my flying example, I stand by that.
Posted 05:55 PM, 09/10/2008
junethe4th
Dear Moderatemarge, I have look at factcheck. So what's your point? You back Polman, I think he is very left of center. Find some new terms will ya, troopergate? You are mimicing the empty-heads. Why don't you just state why you are for Obama. If you are black and for him, fine, I understand. If you are white and for him because you don't want anyone to call you a racist, sad. If you want to discuss his tax plan, let's. What to discuss energy and drilling, let's. The economy, pro-life, pro-choice, anything? All you Obama supporters do is bash McCain & Palin.
Posted 05:41 PM, 09/10/2008
fetchez la vache
tom (and anyone else ascribing to the 143 day logic), Let me put this in simple terms that you can understand. When the Eagles drafted Donovan McNabb, did they look at him as a QB with 49 days of expereince (his record as a starting QB at Syracuse was 35-14) or did they look at him as a QB with 4 years of starting experience. Obviously, it was the latter since there is more to being a QB than just game days. He spent time in practice and in film sessions. But those can't be measured. So anyone that goes around quoting 143 days is just being lazy. Just day that Obama had 2 years of experience as Senator. Just because 143 sounds so little and fits your narrative doesn't make it true.
Posted 05:35 PM, 09/10/2008
jwad56
Not sure what to make of that except to tell you to get a dictionary. Why don't you stop looking for your hand out and get a job?
Posted 05:20 PM, 09/10/2008
Talvenada
J-WAD: Oh, we know who doesn't think like us, but when those tax-cut McCainiacs say something so outrageous it begs for a comment, we have no choice but to opine reality to said blind man. Ergo, YOU.
Posted 05:16 PM, 09/10/2008
sully64
tom, please site your 74% average. According to Congressional Quarterly's voting studies, McCain's LOWEST level of voting support for Bush was 77% (in 2005). Clearly this makes any claim of a lower average ... well ... "problematic." In any case, the obvious counter to your claim is that, no matter what McCain's previous record, he is currently in almost complete agreement with the Bush administration's positions. That being the case, if he wishes to prove he is not a mere extension of the Bush presidency, the onus is on him - and on his supporters - to prove we are getting the John McCain of, say, 2005 when he did not agree so closely with the Bush administration. You will not get such evidence looking at his current record, so you'll need to begin researching other evidence.
Posted 05:15 PM, 09/10/2008
fetchez la vache
tom, Based on your logic regarding McCain vs. Bush, the fact that McCain voted against the Economic Growth and Tax Relief Reconciliation Act of 2001 means that he is against the tax cuts. However, this goes against the fact that he has now stated that he would like to see the cuts made permanent, thereby putting him in line with Bush. You keep twisting yourself up like with your logic that in order to fit your narrative and you are going to need to see a chiropractor real soon.
Posted 05:06 PM, 09/10/2008
fetchez la vache
tom, If it refers to the number of days that the Senate was in session and working, then you are flat out wrong. Go to the Library of Congress site for the 109th Congress (http://thomas.loc.gov/home/ds/) and count the number of days that the Senate was in session in 2005 and 2006. As I said in my earlier post, the Senate was in session for 225 days before Obama formed his committee. So if you rely on 143, you are not only disingenuous but also factually incorrect. Not much of a way to form an argument.
Posted 05:03 PM, 09/10/2008
sully64
Meh. Much ado about nothing. There is no reason the Dems should present whatever happens to Lieberman as retribution, nor is there any particular reason it should be parsed as such. (Although rabid dogs on either side love the red meat "retribution" seems to offer.) The fact of the matter is the Lieberman is no longer a Dem; thus they owe him nothing. If they've left him his committee chairs, they've merely extended him a courtesy for many years of service and the fact that he remains quite liberal on most issues. His performance at the GOP was a discourtesy, however, and thus negates any particular obligation on the part of the Dems. Godfather analogies are certainly dramatic and make for good blog-fodder. That doesn't necessarily mean they reflect the reality.
Posted 05:02 PM, 09/10/2008
fetchez la vache
tom, So the 143 days reflects "flying" days. So if he was in Washington meeting with health care professionals on a day that the Senate wasn't in session in order to get a better understanding of the health needs of this nation, then according to you that would not be a "flying" day of experience, despite the fact that dealing with the health care problem in this country will be a major issue for either McCain or Obama. Your "flying" analogy just doesn't cut it. The experience of a politician is more than just the number of days he sits at his desk in the Senate chamber or governor's mansion. It would be disingenuous for me to argue that Bush only had 350 days of experience as governor from 1995 to 1999. When the legislature wasn't in session, he was attending to other duties that impacted his ability to govern. Since you're an accountant, tom, I'll put this in terms to which you can relate. If you are in a class/conference reviewing proposed changes to FASB (or tax law since I don't know what kind of accountant you are), would you say that you gained no experience those days? Of course not. Just say he had two years of experience at the time that he announced and don't be intellectually lazy by falling back on this 143 trope. Unless you can prove that he wasn't doing anything related to his role as a Senator for those 624 other days, you are once again being disingenuous.
Posted 04:53 PM, 09/10/2008
tom - wilmington, de
First post should have read "It refers to the number of days the Senate was in session and working".
Posted 04:52 PM, 09/10/2008
tom - wilmington, de
McCain has voted with Bush and the Republicans roughly 74% of the time over the course of Bush's entire terms in office. People keep on harping on the 2007 percentage, but fail to look at the entire tenure. Many of Bush's economic policies McCain voted against, such as the energy bill giving $15 Billion in tax breaks to the oil companies that Obama voted to approve. So, it cannot be honestly argued that McCain would be a continuation of Bush where the economy is concerned. McCain is much less of a spendthrift...where he said at the convention about Republicans "we got elected to change Washington and allowed Washington to change us". Also, with tax revenues at their highest level in history, it is spending that needs to be controlled, not taxes. Obama will increase spending and also increase the deficit as well as taxes. Should Congress go along with his tax increases, there will be a major shake up in Congress in 2010 as we head toward a depression.
Posted 04:48 PM, 09/10/2008
tom - wilmington, de
still, Palin was not meant to simply to attract Hillary voters. If you looked at the electoral map, McCain needs help in Pennsylvania, Michigan, Colorado, Nevada, New Mexico, Ohio. Those states have a lot of rural areas with middle to lower income, white, working class voters. Palin is seen as one of them in a way that either Biden or Obama never will be viewed. It is those voters that McCain went after with his Palin selection. Polls show he has greatly closed the gap in women voting for him, and Palin has greatly helped that movement. But it was also the rural areas where he needed help that Palin is meant to appeal. Not being a Hillary supporter, maybe they are her people. Those voters usually, even if pro-choice, do not base their vote on abortion alone....a lot of them voted for Bush and Reagan.
Posted 04:44 PM, 09/10/2008
tom - wilmington, de
The 143 days refers from the date Obama was sworn into the Senate to the date he announced his Presidential Exploratory Committee. It refers not to the number of days the Senate was in session and working. As I am sure you all know, many days the Senate is "in session", many Senators are absent and no business gets conducted. I am sure if you are a pilot for two years but only have 143 days of actual flying experience, you would not be considered a pilot with two years experience, but a pilot for two years with X number of hours of flying experience. Same thing is being used in applying the 143 days to Obama.
Posted 04:42 PM, 09/10/2008
jwad56
I'm smoking the peace pipe! It amazes me that people around here think everyone else thinks like them.
Posted 04:32 PM, 09/10/2008
still_independent
If the D's were smart, they'd come up w/ their own version of McCain's "Celebrity" ad. They could have Fred Thompson speaking at the convention, pick a few inane celebs, and then close w/ the crowds I've recently seen video of chanting "Sarah .. Sarah ..". It's amazing to me that McCain has managed to blunt his two most effective arguments 1) experience, and 2) Obama's "cult" following, in one VP pick. Once ex-Hilary supporters actually learn Palin's views over the next few weeks, they'll start abandoning her. I really do wish he had gone with HIS picks - Lieberman or Ridge.
Posted 04:00 PM, 09/10/2008
James TL
Yeah.. Bush's approval rating is 25% and you think people believe in 90% of his policies? What are you smoking jwad?
Posted 03:43 PM, 09/10/2008
ModerateMarge
Once Palin was chosen the experience argument used by the GOP was SO OVER. I will get arguments until the cows come home but the GOP ran the show in the oval office for the past 8 years and congress for many years ending in 2006. We do need change - not to Bush lite however.
Posted 03:40 PM, 09/10/2008
ModerateMarge
Dear junethe4th, Poleman did not attack Palin today because there are only so many ways to say just how scary unqualified her candidacy is from lying on being the earmark reformer (bridge to nowhere etc) to shady dealings in the Alaska troopergate - see factcheck.org. America will be much better off if we choose on ideas and qualifications and not personalities. Wasn't McCain complaining about the lipstick and pig remark nothing short of asinine ???
Posted 03:39 PM, 09/10/2008
fetchez la vache
SteveMG, I googled Obama and 143 days. From there I found a link to a site that refutes the 143 days. Nice thing is that this site provides a primary reference to the Library of Congress. Tom and the other right-wingers really need to stop drinking the Kool-Aid. First off, the Senate was in session for 109 days in 2005, 109 days in 2006 and 7 days before announcing. That equals 225 days. GW Bush (by that same standard for days in session) was only governor for 350 days (approx.) by the time he announced. And if someone raises the argument of "executive" experience, then just remember that you are then arguing against a McCain-Palin ticket instead of Palin-McCain and that in the requirements of qualification for president the Constitution does not state that you cannot be a Senator. But in the end, the whole argument is intellectually dishonest since it does not address the fact that a Senator has responsibilities outside the Senate chamber which provide useful experience. tom, are you sure that you really want to hang your hat on this argument? Turns out the number of days is wrong and it's dishonest.
Posted 03:35 PM, 09/10/2008
ModerateMarge
Tom, It is clear that the Bush financial shenanigans are going to have to stop. Imagine the first president to lower taxes during a war and I would suggest to our detriment. There is a reckoning for Bush's reckless use of the nations credit card and I suggest no matter who gets in the bill will be due.
Posted 03:34 PM, 09/10/2008
junethe4th
What's the matter, Polman, not attacking Gov Palin today? You advocating political assassination? Reaching to the bowels of the Inferno for your next political idea? How sad your commentary!
Posted 03:01 PM, 09/10/2008
yobill626
So McCain's change of strategy to completely re-tool his campaign by co-opting the change message is DESPITE the overwhelming support Bush receives from Americans? Gee, putting it that way, it doesn't seem as smart as I thought it was when I first heard it.
Posted 02:55 PM, 09/10/2008
fetchez la vache
tom, Is Steve correct? Are you referring to the number of days in session? That still doesn't make sense since he was a Senator for two years before he declared. That would mean that the Senate is in session just 70 days per year. Where are you getting 143 days tom? It just doesn't make sense.
Posted 02:50 PM, 09/10/2008
SteveMG
Fetchez, the 143 days comes from the number of days the Senate was in session. McCain gets full credit for weekends and recesses, but Obama doesn't, I guess. It's just another disingenuous smear.
Posted 02:48 PM, 09/10/2008
yobill626
JeffA: "Caribou Barbie" --- thanks for my best laugh of the day! {I'll be co-opting that from now on, since I love nicknames as much as Bush)...... Nigel: The types of incidents you mention are easily identifiable. Its the unspoken ones that have yet to be quantified. Near the end of the primary campaign, it became a bit noticeable that the overwhelming percentage of "undecideds" in many different states consistently went to Clinton. Statistically odd, to say the least.
Posted 02:48 PM, 09/10/2008
Talvenada
J-WAD: 90% of Americans agree w/ Bush? So, Obama's change is all BS, but why does McCain talk about change from what 90% of the country wants?
Posted 02:37 PM, 09/10/2008
JeffA
djoseph - a little levity please. 6% unemployment is nothing. Check your history and you'll find 10% unemployment with 15% interest rates. That'll take a bite out of the housing market! Worse than the credit crunch and government grabbing for more control to help the 'free' market, there's no appearance of moral outrage with an outcry for accountability.
Posted 02:37 PM, 09/10/2008
sleepy
The pure as the driven snow, Rizzo, Daley, JFK, LBJ, election stealing, fraud perpetrating, graft enhancing, city destroying Democratic party. This is politics as usual in the Democratic party. How many, as Reagan said, are leaving them, because they left us.
Posted 02:37 PM, 09/10/2008
NigeltheMastiff
Actually, what I should have said is that when one is married to ideology, one has a very difficult time admitting anything amiss in the ideology or anyone associated with it. That's dangerous. I have my issues with Obama, but still he is my choice over the extreme right.
Posted 02:33 PM, 09/10/2008
fetchez la vache
jwad, If the country agrees with Bush so much, then why are his approval ratings so low? Why did McCain NEVER refer to Bush 43 by name in his acceptance speech? (He referred to him once as "President") Why was Bush not even at the convention? (And don't say Gustav because he could have been there and delivered his speech and still been in communication with FEMA and Gov. Jindal) McCain runs away from Bush 43 because our current president is so unpopular. But his record ties him to Bush. And before you cite the approval ratings for Congress, remember that you are referring to an institution versus an individual. When voters are asked about their particular Rep or Senator, they respond with much higher approval ratings. I'll bet you any amount of money that you would like that incumbents (both D and R) are returned to Congress at a rate of over 50%, which far exceeds the institution's rating. Remember to compare apples to apples when comparing favorability ratings.
Posted 02:32 PM, 09/10/2008
JeffA
jwad - "most of the country agrees with him" Seriously? Dude with those kinds of statements, please send me a check for 14.99 so you can be the first to own the all-new Caribou Barbie. LOL!
Posted 02:30 PM, 09/10/2008
NigeltheMastiff
jwad, there are many of us who do agree with Obama/Biden and respect them both. Neither is perfect -- nobody can possibly be. I am certainly not a socialist, but I see the chasm widening between the wealthy and the poor, with the middle class being squeezed more than ever. I live in small-town Georgia, and every Sunday I have been going to a small get-together of mostly well-heeled (and extremely conservative) people for a quick drink in the evening. Most of them inherited wealth. They are not lazy, but they have certainly been given a great deal to work with. We sometimes debate politics, though not often. I have decided that I will not go back, as last Sunday one of the men asked if everyone thought Obama is a N_____? His wife then said she would say he is a N_____. I was literally shocked, sickened, horrified and outraged. Under other circumstances I would have stood, said something about how completely out of line the slur is for anybody, and leave. However, I was a guest at a dear friend's house and I didn't want to make a scene. But my conscience will not allow those kinds of repugnant statements to go unanswered; otherwise I am tacitly agreeing, or at least accepting such a disgusting statement. What really horrified me is that this couple is one of the "elite" in the town. They are supposedly educated. I don't believe anything has changed in the South in 150 years. Yet nobody here draws any parallels to the fact that the Southeastern states have the highest drop-out rates, the lowest graduation rates, the lowest SAT scores, highest poverty rates, highest obesity rates, and on and on. When one is married to ideology, change is not easy.
Posted 02:11 PM, 09/10/2008
jwad56
Obama's problem folks is that even though McCain voted with Bush 90% of the time, most of the country agrees with that 90%. Let me ask you this: Why does Obama feel the need to run against Bush? Perhaps because he has never accomplished a darn thing. His ideas are well worn socialist ones that have long been rejected in America. He says he is forward looking but only talks about the past. He says he is a new politician but he picks as his running mate the oldest retread he can find. News Flash - We don't Obama to save us.
Posted 02:10 PM, 09/10/2008
philly2flag
Hmmmmmm - condescending? Joe L: Referring to Barry as a "young man" Biden: "Well, he's clean and articulate."
Posted 02:06 PM, 09/10/2008
Talvenada
TOM, Have you been imbibing again? Your Pubs are cutthroats of the highest magnitude!!! Besides, Joe is the 1 Dem in the McCainiac's bipartisan fair-and-balanced cabinet. Dig dirt on Palin? You are so right. America only needs to know her version of her flawless life in an election that is NOT about issues, and after she takes over the WH--if McCain cannot finish his term--it's too bad and too late w/ Americans again being too stupid. Face it, Tom. Pubs will do everything they can to prevent partisan politics from ending by increasing their viciousness to the point of their one party dream.
Posted 01:55 PM, 09/10/2008
fetchez la vache
According to CQ, John McCain voted in 2007 in support of the president’s position on legislation considered 95% of the time. I don't see how that last 5% in terms of policy will really make that much of a difference. I guess McCain could argue that he would do a better job of execution (heck, anyone could argue that they could do a better job of execution than Bush 43). He could also argue that Palin won't exert the same influence as Cheney. But as Obama said, McCain calling himself a change candidate is like putting lipstick on a pig.
Posted 01:53 PM, 09/10/2008
yoda
Well, look on the bright side...if McSame does win, and, as predicted, gives us 4 years of even-worse-than-Bush, Republicans will probably be rewarded in 2012 for their continued mismanagement with 8 years of Hillary Clinton. Unfortunately, so will the rest of us, but that would still be an improvement on 4 more years of McSame.
Posted 01:49 PM, 09/10/2008
NigeltheMastiff
Thank you, yobill, for saying what I have been thinking for so long. No matter who is elected, all taxes should rise. I certainly don't want to leave my daughter the kind of debt that we currently carry. I believe we are on the brink of financial collapse, and I'm frankly terrified. Am I a person who sees the glass half-empty? Perhaps, but news reports from the financial markets are very scary. The mortgage meltdown, this immoral and never-ending (and financially disastrous) war, the erosion of privacy in the name of safety. To play off Michelle Obama's words -- for which she has been excoriated -- for the first time in my life I am deeply ashamed of America. Keeping men imprisoned for years on end without charging them with anything or allowing them to defend themselves. A president who declares "I'm a Christian -- let's torture people." We used to be more good than evil, more generous than misanthropic, more live-and-let-live than cookie-cutter idealogues. We now exalt ignorance and lack of intellect, and deride learning and intelligence. I recently finished the John Adams biography. Our founders read Greek and Latin, exchanged letters of civil debate and philosophy and remained intellectually curious throughout their lives. What has happened to us breaks my heart.
Comment removed.
Posted 01:42 PM, 09/10/2008
djoseph
jwad56: you're right. McCain won't be 4 more years of Bush. It'll be worse: bigger budget deficits, more lobbyists running the show, more Bridges to Nowhere, more pandering to people like Pastor Hagee, more body bags, more giveaways to the rich, and a nuclear reactor coming to a community near you. McCain has admitted that "the economy" isn't his strong suit. We have housing market meltdowns, wall street meltdowns, record high unemployment and this guy can't even PRETEND that he knows something about the economy. The only thing McCain had going for him was the image of someone who stood up for core convictions, regardless of party. He threw that out the window when he let himself be bullied into picking someone other than whom he wanted (Ridge or Lieberman) - someone who doesn't believe in many of the things that he believes in (global warming for instance) and he continues to throw that image out the window as he knowingly spreads lies about his opponent. I was considering McCain at one point, but the Bush-connection and similarity and the fact that he clearly will do ANYTHING to get elected, squashed that notion, as it has for countless family members and friends who consider themselves moderates and independents. The Palin pick sealed it for them. They are going for Obama.
Comment removed.
Posted 01:38 PM, 09/10/2008
JeffA
Still_Independent - that debt in the business world would be considered leverage, and most defenders of Bush/Cheney state that the % of our GDP the debt represents has remained essentially flat, so America has increased the debt but not how levered it is. Debt incurred by a business is supposed to be invested in something that will repay the debt over time, also known as a Return on Investment (ROI). Unfortunately for our MBA/CEO leadership, there is no ROI for the debts they've run up. They simply borrowed to achieve an end with no plan on how to repay it. The biggest joke is neither D nor R seems to really care. We need a 3rd party contender who understands the financial quagmire America is in, be it Ross Perot, Ron Paul, or Warren Buffet.
Posted 01:28 PM, 09/10/2008
jwad56
** Attention left wingers ** McCain is NOT 4 more years of Bush. That argument is failing.
Posted 01:26 PM, 09/10/2008
FIZZY
Lieberman sold out everything he ever stood for to the Israeli lobby. Period. That explains it all. Everybody knows it. Most are afraid to say it!
Posted 01:17 PM, 09/10/2008
yobill626
That's what's called cutting off your nose to spite your face. So Pal Joey changes parties & then the Republicans take over Congress again & the few investigations being done on the Bush Administration stop. I assure you that Pal Joey knows he is the most powerful man in the Senate right now, & in politics, right now is all you have.
Posted 01:10 PM, 09/10/2008
frankg962
I agree with JeffA, Joe should just change his affiliation now and be done with it so we don't have to deal with the hypocrisy. (sp?)
Posted 01:06 PM, 09/10/2008
Ed_Tilton
I still have my Gore/Loserman button the RNC put out in 2000. Traitor Joe is just a pathetic loser
Posted 01:02 PM, 09/10/2008
yobill626
Let's say you are part of a couple making $82,000 in 2000. You have no credit card debt. By 2008, you are making $94,000 but you find yourself carrying $10,000 on your credit cards. Not only are you down $2000, but you're in the hole for all the collective interest accumulated over months & years until the cards are paid off. That's the situation we're in. Based on what our MBA President has done, its wiser financially for the poor slob who has to clean up after him (Obama or McCain) to take each of our tax breaks & apply it to the deficit. I'm not holding my breath.
Posted 12:58 PM, 09/10/2008
still_independent
JeffA: continuing on the debt theme, as of this month, it's estimated that U.S. debt is at $9,700,000,000,000. Yes, that's 9.7 TRILLION dollars. The $5 trillion is only the publicly held debt. Our total debt is estimated at $31,700 per U.S. citizen. This year, it'll probably be about 38% of the total GDP. In 2008, we'll spend ~$240 Billion just paying interest on the debt, about 9.5% of gov't receipts. The interest payments on the debt are fourth in size in the budget behind defense, social security and medicare.... Neither McCain nor Obama can explain how to pay for either more spending or continuing all of the tax cuts... Sorry, Virginia, there is no Santa Clause, and tax cuts do NOT pay for themselves.
Posted 12:53 PM, 09/10/2008
fetchez la vache
tom, I'm re-posting a question here from the comments section from Polman's prior post because I would like to get an answer as to where do you get 143 days for Obama to start running his campaign. He was sworn in on January 4, 2005. He announced his campaign on Feb 10, 2007. That is 767 days. (He formed his exploratory committee on Jan 16, 2007) By your calculation, he either commenced running for President on either May 27, 2005 (143 days after being sworn in) or March 25, 2005 (143 days after election).
Posted 12:48 PM, 09/10/2008
djoseph
John McCain: 4 more years of record budget deficits, dying US soldiers, corporate bail outs, tax cuts for the rich, pay back for the extreme "Christian" right, and oil dependence. Sounds great.
Posted 12:42 PM, 09/10/2008
SteveMG
How can Obama raise everybody's taxes anyway? Only Congress can do that. The low information coalition swings and misses again. You low information types would do well to try to comprehend that just because you don't actually pay higher taxes, when the government runs a deficit, you're still liable for those taxes. Except you L.I. types are happy to pawn them off on your kids. Anyway, this retribution talk is silly. If he wants to caucus, let him caucus. Worry about it in four years when his seat comes up for reelection.
Posted 12:40 PM, 09/10/2008
JeffA
YoBill, Frank - dead on! America Equity account is tapped. I don't care if it's an R or a D, but someone has to have the political courage to stand up and say, "Enough! We have to reign in spending, pay down debt, and hold bankers accountable (Fed Reserve, Treasury, Wall St., etc."
Posted 12:37 PM, 09/10/2008
Master Dreamz
I really cant believe that people are even commenting on this. I mean, even Leiberman knows what is going to happen if Obama wins the election. People will make anything into a political argument these days, even on for gone conclusions. Yes, these last 16 years of Clintons and Bushes has sure driven a divide in this country with their partisan politics.
Posted 12:33 PM, 09/10/2008
Shimmy
How dare Lieberman refer to Obama as a "young man." Perhaps he should have emulated Jimmy Carter and called him a "black boy."
Posted 12:27 PM, 09/10/2008
tom - wilmington, de
Obama's tax cuts will go the way of Clinton's middle class tax cut in 1993 as soon as he is in office. Once the Bush tax cuts get repealed, everyone's taxes will go up, then they will "renew" the child tax credit and lower rates for the bottom half of the brackets and call it a Democrat tax cut. So, best case scenario is status quo for those under the $250K. I also wonder about his senior citizen tax cut for those making less than $50K. Does that include social security? Is he repealing the Clinton tax increase on Social Security from the 1990's? That to me is not clear.
Posted 12:20 PM, 09/10/2008
bird11
frank962 - you do realize Lieberman is already out of the party? Think Joe's stance might swing a few Jewish voters from their traditional Democrat vote?
Posted 12:20 PM, 09/10/2008
tom - wilmington, de
I am shocked that the party of bi-partisanship, the party who wants to change the way Washington operates, the party of the people with a big tent, would punish somebody who is utilizing their freedom of choice. Why would they want to be labeled as just like the Republicans, who have their own traitor in Richard Lugar? How about Obama today referring to Swift Boat politics, while the democrats drop 30 lawyers in Alaska to dig up dirt on Palin, while liberals like Olberman trash Palin for her religious views (referring to her as Elmer Gantry), while his finance director calls Palin irresponsible for choosing to run as VP, while he accuses McCain of spreading rumors that Obama is a Muslim. What is he talking about?
Posted 12:19 PM, 09/10/2008
Rauol Duke
How many of you would want to play the role of Fat Clemenza? I am one.
Posted 12:17 PM, 09/10/2008
bon
Lieberman won his seat after his party threw him out. If he had not been thrown out Lieberman probably would have stayed true to his party. Being turned away, he was free to endorse whoever he pleased. Good for Lieberman. He has shown a great deal of bravery and class throughout all of this. ----- Lugar and Hagel are examples of the same sort on the Republican side. Nothing to sneer at with them, either, even if they happen to be wrong. :)
Posted 12:06 PM, 09/10/2008
jmc
Ah yes, the Democratic Party. The party of tolerance, diversity of opinion, and the party that preaches the virtue of dissent. They remind me very much of the Corleones. Well, at least Fredo.
Posted 12:05 PM, 09/10/2008
yobill626
Frank: Heck, Grill's not the only one. I don't see what these guys aren't getting --- we're in (at least) $.5 TRILLION of debt! I'll bet you that same bridge that sometime next year (no matter who wins) there will be an announcement that the debt estimated by the Bush Administration was "conservative".
Posted 12:04 PM, 09/10/2008
palmyra21
Joe doesn't owe the Dems anything. Remember they campaigned against him in the primaries in 06 and Joe beat their candidate in the Fall.
Posted 12:01 PM, 09/10/2008
JeffA
I think the Dems calling Lieberman a traitor or worse is out of line. Joe stood on his principles. He should be applauded for that. If a Republican crosses party lines, Dems hail that as an example of strong values, as putting country before party. Joe could just switch parties and carry on. Instead, we drown in the hypocrisy.
Posted 11:50 AM, 09/10/2008
frankg962
Grill, if you believe your taxes aren't going up after the profligate spending of this administration, regardless of who wins, I have a bridge I'd like to sell you.
Posted 11:49 AM, 09/10/2008
yobill626
Ramon: Zell Miller was already leaving Congress when he "stood on his principles".
Posted 11:47 AM, 09/10/2008
Grill
Obama will raise everyone's taxes in one shape or form Polman and you now that. Shame on you for calling Senator McCain a liar. That is a very appalling charge. Obama has said he will raise capital gains and dividend taxes which means any American who even has one penny in savings will see their taxes on their savings rise. That is called raising taxes on everyone. He also has not said he will keep the Bush tax cuts of 2001 and 2003 permament for everyone and THEN raise rates on only those earning more than 250K. He instead has said he will REPEAL the Bush income tax cuts, which would RAISE the income tax cuts of EVERYONE who earns income and THEN offer tax cuts for those under 250K. Where was all the fanfare when Bush TWICE cut income taxes for everyone under 250K, including ELIMINATING 2 million low income tax payers from the rolls! And those low income tax payers who were not eliminated from the rolls had a tax cut as well some going to a new bracket of 10%. More partisan drivel from Polman.
Posted 11:46 AM, 09/10/2008
frankg962
Actually I think once this session is over, Lieberman should be stripped and kicked out of the party. For all intents and purposes he has left the party and once Congress takes their pre-election recess, that's the end of legislative business really. Let's face it, if Obama wins and the Dems pick up any seats, they're going to effectively block any new legislation until after the new administration is in place. Having said that, what do they need Lieberman for? Nothing. He needs to be drummed out asap imo.
Posted 11:45 AM, 09/10/2008
donde
Xi Jah-come the freak on. Metaphors don't actually mean that he's suggesting someone kill him. Dumb dumb. I hope the dems skewer Lierberman post election. You're correct, the only hope he has is a McCain victory and a cabinet level or similar post. Otherwise, he's a back bencher independent sitting on no committees with no power.
Posted 11:44 AM, 09/10/2008
yobill626
I was under the belief that if McCain won, Pal Joey wasn't going anywhere since NcCain couldn't afford to lose Lieberman's votes in the Senate. However since the CT Gov is a Repub, Lieberman will have his bags packed for pickup next January. I think Harry's mad enough to be dreaming about his boxing days when he could pop this slimeball in the mouth.
Comment removed.
Posted 11:23 AM, 09/10/2008
Ramon
Wow. You really believe that Dems aren't politically vicious and take revenge on people who betray the party? How did it work out for Zell Miller?
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About Dick Polman

Cited by the Columbia Journalism Review as one of the nation's top political reporters, and lauded by the ABC News political website as "one of the finest political journalists of his generation," Dick Polman is a national political columnist at the Philadelphia Inquirer. He is on the full-time faculty at the University of Pennsylvania, as "writer in residence." Dick has been a frequent guest on C-Span, MSNBC, CNN, NPR and the BBC. He covered the 1992, 1996, 2000, and 2004 presidential campaigns.

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All commentaries posted before April 18, 2008, can be accessed at www.dickpolman.blogspot.com.