Goon power
The new tradition of town hall thuggery
Goon power
Dick Polman, Inquirer National Political Columnist
I was in college when I first witnessed goon squads in action. Back in those distant days, left-wing radicals would storm into the auditorium and shout down conservative speakers with whom they disagreed. These assaults on free speech occurred all the time. Far more recently, in the autumn of 2003, I covered a Democratic rally in Los Angeles and found myself surrounded by screaming left-wing protesters who were determined to disrupt my street interview with Duff Sundheim, the California chairman of the Republican party. He had come to the rally to offer another point of view, and I wanted to get it into my notes. I wound up yelling back at the protesters and defending the Republican chairman's right to be heard. Sundheim was so startled at my outburst that he said to me, "Hey, man, I owe you a beer."
Lately, however, the angry right appears to have cornered the market on anti-democratic thuggery. The incidents mount with each passing day. With aid and encouragement from fake-grassroots corporate lobbying outfits, as well as from the Republican party, are making a mockery of the American town hall tradition. The way things normally work, congressmen on recess meet with constituents and engage in two-way dialogue; the way things have worked lately, choleric conservative citizens engage in a one-way dialogue, shouting down the congressmen and basically trashing the democratic format - not caring a damn for the fellow citizens in attendance who might actually be interested in hearing about the health care reform effort, however flawed it may be.
The right-wingers who drowned out congressman Lloyd Doggett in Texas, who shouted down congressman Tim Bishop on Long Island, who screamed insults at congressman John Dingell in Michigan, who forced congresswoman Kathy Castor to cut short her meeting in Florida, who heckled and harassed congressman Steve Kagen in Wisconsin, who shouted down congresswoman Ann Kirkpatrick of Arizona so severely that she had to cancel the event during its opening minutes...these are people who actually think they are standing up for America, when, in truth, they are subverting the American tradition of free speech. Worse yet, sometimes they have no idea what they're talking about. At one Texas town hall meeting, the vocal protesters ranted against all forms of "socialized or government-run health care," yet when congressman Gene Green asked how many were Medicare recipients, half the hands went up.
Fear and ignorance is rampant, as always. What's noteworthy is how brilliantly that fear and ignorance is being harnessed by the corporate and political forces that have a big stake in the status quo. Witness, for instance, the organizational efforts of lobbyist-run Washington groups such as Americans for Prosperity and FreedomWorks (one of the FreedomWorks volunteers wrote the now-infamous memo that advises the goons to "rock the boat early...watch for an opportunity to yell out...the goal is to rattle him").
But my favorite is the faux-grassroots group called Conservatives for Patients' Rights, which, as it turns out, is run by Rick Scott, the former boss of a for-profit hospital chain who lost his job during a fraud probe that ultimately forced the chain to plead guilty to serious charges of overbilling and to pay $1.7 billion in fines. (Scott's group had publicized the Arizona town hall that had to be shelved during the opening minutes.)
Then we have the handiwork of the Republican party. The latest worthless remark by national chairman Michael Steele came in reference to a query this week about whether the GOP was encouraging or condoning the goon behavior. Absolutely not, said the chairman, "that’s not something deliberately coordinated by me or any one state party."
Actually, the Connecticut Republican party has been listing the times and dates of town halls. The Texas Republican party posted video of Lloyd Doggett's chaotic event, with nary a word of condemnation for the goon behavior. The Hillsborough County Republican party in Florida sent out emails encouraging people to pack the Kathy Castor event, and offered talking points (right-wing talk host Glenn Beck also publicized the event).
Then there are the Republican partisans who show up on false pretenses. At the Kagen event in Wisconsin, a vocal woman named Heather Bliss insisted that she was "just a mom from a few blocks away." A local TV affiliate (to its credit) decided to fact-check her claim. It turns out that, as recently as last year, "just a mom" Bliss was the vice chairwoman of the county Republican party, with ties to the Republican National Committee.
Obviously, there are legitimate grounds for questioning many aspects of the Democratic health reform effort, and not all town hall dissidents should be lumped with the goons. But it is nevertheless chilling to hear Pete Sessions, chairman of the National Republican Campaign Committee, declare that the days of civil town halls are "now over," while offering nary a rebuke to those who exhibit anti-democratic behavior. Nor should we expect him to. The Republican strategy is not to find the best road to health care reform via a two-way dialogue; it's about breaking Barack Obama and regaining power - and the goon squads are very useful.
Kathy Abrahm in attacking Sen Specter at the town hall meeting in Penn. said she wanted to go back to the way America was when it was founded. That is code for all African-Americans to be slaves and Hispanics to live in barrios. She said nothing the government does works right. Is she prepared to give up her parents or grand parents being covered by Medicare and Social Security so she doesn’t have to support them? Will she give up her bank account being guaranteed by FDIC? Will she drop her unemployed neighbors being covered by unemployment compensation? I am a vet. If super patriot Kathy had ever been in the service, she would have been covered by socialized medicine (the US Army medical Corps). atowhead
Swedes: Who is the leader of the Republican party? p-diddy
Swedes: You're right! I forgot about Michael Steele's plan to bring Republicanism to "urban/suburban hip-hop environments". The black chairman of the RNC is scared of Rush Limbaugh. p-diddy- The lobbying efforts of Big Pharma on the Obama administration is going to pay big time for big Pharma. Obama supporters need to take their blinders off. You are being sold a bill of goods from this administration that they care about your needs.........................In return, Big Pharma isn't just supporting universal healthcare. It's also spending lots of money on TV and radio advertising in support. Sunday's New York Times reports that Big Pharma has budgeted $150 million for TV ads promoting universal health insurance, starting this August (that's more money than John McCain spent on TV advertising in last year's presidential campaign), after having already spent a bundle through advocacy groups like Healthy Economies Now and Families USA.
With all of this screaming and hollering at these meetings, is anyone finding out what i actually in these proposed health-care packages? I have not been able to find. It seems that you have a lot people who don't appear to be in good health screaming. Most health care in America is subsidized either by the taxpayers or by their employers. Most people can not afford a really good health plan without some type of assistance. Anne Arkey- Still Independent- In the general election most politicians run as a centrist. Obama ran on tax cuts and fiscal repsonsibility. But he really wants to do is transform the United States. Cap and Trade, Univseral healthcare, Employee Free Choice etc are not centrist positions and we heard little on these issues on the campaign trail. Right now he is 50-50 in the approval department according to Rasmussen. About 6 points below Bush at this time in his presidency. We shall see where this goes but you're counting your chickens before they hatch in thinking the Democrats will be eternally in the majority or that there will not be a resurgent Republican party. Who's extreme is just a lable thrown at people with which they do not agree.
- p diddy- Michael Steel is the head of the RNC. I hope you have more in the stockpile of ammo when the midterms approach than saying Limbaugh is the head of the Republican party. I know you guys think that statement is cute but seriously if the economy doesn't turn around and we keep having trillion dollar deficits it's foolish to think there will be no political price to pay. The big leads that the Republicans have in the the races in Va and NJ should be a cause for concern. In NJ I think Corzine is toast because all he can do is attack ads- he cannot do an ad on his record because it is abysmal.
- JimR- Generally the only posters you seem to disagree with are the conservative posters. My liberal brother in law hides behind the independent lable then proceeds to regurgitate the Democratic talking points wiht remarkable accuracy. So Obama is not your guy. OK it is duly noted.
smike, "Take a postion JimR ". OK, my position is that you, knowing almost nothing about me, made up a judgement on my political beliefs and now you won't justify it. Again, I ask: where did you get that Obama was my guy? My voting record ( about which you have no knowledge)has nothing to do with it. JimR
swedesboromike: first of all, there was that Clinton guy that won in '96, and Gore won the popular vote in 2000 (I know that's not how we run elections in this country, but there is no denying that a majority of voters preferred him over GW), so not all D's lost. And what did they have in common? They ran as centrists, not extremists. The reason that political dialog has disintegrated in this country is because too many on both extremes are convinced they are "right", and no amount of facts or evidence will convince them otherwise. What's wrong with being on the extremes? All it means is not in the middle. Besides, you regularly use terms like liberal towards anyone that disagrees with you. If they are extreme, then so are you; I think many of those you call liberals aren't any further left of center than you are right of center... I would argue that Republicans lost the last two elections because 1 - Bush's incompetence 2 - Iraq 3 - economy tanked 4 - not living up to any of your stated principles. Again, " fiscal responsibility " isn't an extremist position, it isn't a position at all. I could argue that high spending with high taxes is just as responsible as low spending with low taxes. Now as I'm thinking about it, the reason political discourse has turned so ugly is that neither side is willing to actually compromise. Many here have written "I'll be bipartisan so long as I don't have have to compromise MY principles", meaning that the other side must. Clinton managed to work with a Republican congress. Reagan managed to work with a Democratic congress. Neither side got everything they wanted, both sides had to give some. No one is willing to do this anymore... And finally, I'll go back to my earlier examples. Voters are selfish. "I can get gov't healthcare [Medicare], but those other people shouldn't". "Those other towns should consolidate". What people state their beliefs are are often very different than how they vote or act. still_independent
Michelle Malkin wrote a book a couple years ago called "In Defense Of Internment". I'll admit that she's become B-list as a tv guest, but she's still very visible. Glenn Beck is another one, and he gets huge ratings. He said Obama has a "deep-seated hatred of white people" and that he was a "racist". This is coming from a guy who asked Keith Ellison, the first Muslim member of congress to "prove to me sir, you are not working with our enemies". On this very thread we had a Republican call Obama a "city gutter thug". We have the birther movement still running wild. But I think at the bottom of this is desperation. Their side is losing, and they know it. p-diddy
Swede: Who's the leader of the conservative movement right now? Most people would probably say Rush Limbaugh. So yeah, there is an extremist element in the Republican party that has not necessarily grown, but has become more prominent because so many others have left the party. The Republican party right now is basically a Southern white party. There's nothing wrong with being white or Southern, but the brand of conservatism that the South is known for (racist-tinged social conservatism) has come to dominate the party. That's why they've been losing. On a broader level, there's no acceptable avenue for populist outrage in America anymore. That's why you have kooks like Glenn Beck trying to say that the bank bailouts are socialism, and others like Sarah Palin trying to conflate healthcare reform with nazism. p-diddy- Still Independent- Losing an election doesn't make you extreme. Under your line of thinking the Democrats had been in the extreme from 1994 until 2006. You lableling people extremists because they don't agree with you is a big reason the poltical dialog in this country has disintigrated so greatly. I would argue that Republicans lost the last two election cycles because they didn't live up to their principles of fiscal responsibility not because that is an extremist position.
swedesboromike : " I believe in low taxes, self reliancy, national defense and fiscal responsibiltiy. Those are my issues and they are not extreme" Those are not issues. Those are guiding principles. Issues are individual policy issues. There's an important difference. You believe in low taxes and fiscal responsibility? Great, so do I. Cutting the first without cutting the second isn't fiscally responsible. Nor is raising the second without raising the first responsible, either. As far as getting "side tracked" by other issues, fine. Don't. But perhaps a majority of Americans don't put the same priority on the same principles that you do. Perhaps the arrogance of your "These are my positions. These are most important to me, therefore they must be most important to everyone else" attitude is why Republicans are losing elections. And I appologize for using arrogance, but it's the best word I can come up with. I fully admit my positions on various issues are ideologically inconsistent, and at times downright arbitrary. I don't care because they are MY positions, no one else's. On certain positions I am extreme, in that a majority of Armericans would disagree with me. I have no problem with that. On many positions, I am very mainstream. I could really care less either way. When it comes time to vote, I line up the candidates, put their positions in priority order, and vote with the one who lines up best, regardless of party. As to whether the Republican party is extreme, well I'd offer that if you keep losing elections, then you are by definition in the extreme - a majority of Americans are continually disagreeing with you.... As an aside, if you pay attention, most of my arguments with various posters here tend to be fact based, not ideologically based. By that I mean that when posters throw up information that is incorrect, I like to call them on it. If the R's tend to throw out more factual innaccuracies here, then so be it. still_independent- P diddy- I am with you. People do that at the Airport all the time. They clog up the walking escalator by not walking making it pointless to even use the thing.
Swedes: I don't think you're an extremist. I'd like to have you over my house to discuss some possible action against people who stand on escalators. Maybe we could start a movement. p-diddy- JimR- OK, so you didn't vote for Obama? Take a postion JimR. Seems like you're trying to have a foot in both camps.
- Still Independent- But you are calling me an extremist because I believe in low taxes, self reliancy, national defense and fiscal responsibiltiy. Those are my issues and they are not extreme. Why someone would allow themselves to get sidetracked by global warming theories doesn't make any sense to me. The broader point here is that my positions are not extreme and neither is the Republican party. You might want to spin it that way for political gain but saying it and reality are two different things.
smike, last week..........Posted by swedesboromike 04:32 PM, JimR- Comrad Xi put it all in perspective. It depends on who's ox is being gored. Classic and so true. Your guy pranced around on the campaign trail pretending to have all the aswers. And now he is finding out that this" whole being President thing aint so easy! " (I don't know why this copies this way) My vote is irrelevant. I am luke warm to many of his policies (at best)and have never posted advocating him as a candidate. I was just wondering where that came from. You make this stuff up, right? JimR
swedesboromike: as for the polling data, "likely voters" isn't close to the same thing as Americans. Gallup, polling Americans, found "Six in 10 Americans indicate that they are highly worried about global warming, including 34% who are worried "a great deal" and 26% "a fair amount." ... The person on receiving Medicare can of course have an opinion. I may view their opinion that others should not receive the same benefits they do as suspect, however. If the free market is the best solution, then it should be the best solution for everyone, right? .. As for your last post, it's a red herring. Of course people are less concerned about global warming than polluted dringing water - it's far more immediate. Even though I am e skeptical believer (sorry, I do defer to the vast majority of CLIMATOLOGISTS that do hold similar opinions to each other), and do think it's over-hyped, it's still hard to get worked up about a gradual threat a hundred years away. still_independent- Still Independent- I don't agree with you definition of extreme but by using your own standards I would not be in the extreme....................... n the poll, Americans rated global warming last in a list of eight environmental problems. The environmental issue that most Americans worry about (84 percent) is pollution in drinking water.
- Still Independent- Why if some one is senior citizen on medicare can they not comment on or have a position opposed to a complete single payer system?
- Still Independent- ust one-out-of-three voters (34%) now believe global warming is caused by human activity, the lowest finding yet in Rasmussen Reports national surveying. However, a plurality (48%) of the Political Class believes humans are to blame. Forty-eight percent (48%) of all likely voters attribute climate change to long-term planetary trends, while seven percent (7%) blame some other reason. Eleven percent (11%) aren’t sure................. The above is from Ramussen Reports polling. I don't think I have taken an extreme position
swedesboromike: there is a market for "fiscal responsibility, self reliancy, low taxes and national defense" (although the last one means different things to different people). Unfortunately, neither major party actually subscribes to more than one or two of them. And truth be told, it's not what people really want. It's like the people at town hall meetings complaining about "socialized medicine", over half of whom receive medicaire or medicaid. Or people who complain about property taxes, but won't allow their school districts or municipalities merge. Or freak out when services are cut. Or complain about the deficit but don't want any of the programs they depend on cut (I'm sure only liberals have cashed in on "Cash for Clunkers"). Or want to "save" social security, so long as their payroll taxes aren't raised nor are their benefits cut. Let's be honest. Nearly everyone exhibits some form on NIMBY when it comes to politics... Finally, you are extreme (as is the left) if extreme means believeing differently on issues than the majority. A majority of Americans do favor major revamping of healthcare. A majority of Americans do believe in "the nonsese of global warming". A majority of Americans do believe the federal government should regulate financial markets. still_independent- JimR- I don't remember making such a statement. Did you vote for Obama?
JimR: hey, I'm apparently a "flaming lib" and Obama's my personal messiah and I didn't even vote for the guy. still_independent
smike, the medium doesn't matter. A lot of people seem to dance on the grave of the Philly news outlets (cyber and paper) and then spend hours posting on Philly.com boards - insuring a solid future. BTW, where have I posted (on any board) that Obama was 'my' guy or even my candidate. Several here see me greatly otherwise. Even Tal called me a 'conservpub' JimR- p diddy- Like I said, you will always paint your opposition as extreme. That is the way the game is played. But there is a market for fiscal responsibility, self reliancy, low taxes and national defense. You can discount this all you want and call us every name in the book. I know politics is an ugly game. So go ahead and keep running up the debt and you'll see what happens at the ballot box.
Swedes: I don't what makes you think I was "pontificating on one party's eternal success". I was merely pointing out that the Republicans, should they lose seats in 2010, will be forced to confront the Limbaugh-style conservatives within the party. The past two elections have been routs; they can't afford to lose more seats. p-diddy- Yobil626- It is interesting that you think McCain caved into right wing interests. When I look back at the campaign the two candidates really were not that far apart on policy. Both wanted healthcare reform, both bought into the nonsese of global warming and both wanted to close Guantanomo. There were some sublte differences but truth be told they were two big government liberals. Your side is always going to try to paint my point of view as extreme. It's politics and that is the way the game is played. But it is foolish to think there is not a market for fiscal responsibility, self reliancy, low taxes, and national defense.
- JimR- I am sure Polman likes the activity on his blog. And yes there is market for writers like Polman. But the Inquirer in its current form will not survive. They have printing presses, trucks, drivers etc to distribute a product that I can read for free on line. It can survive on the internet but papers in general are going to go the way of the typewriter and buggy wip.
We may be hitting a record for posts on this site today. And as yobill observed earlier, site hits are what it's all about. So for all the folks who think Polman and the Inky should be driven into the sea, this won't do it. Keep it up. JimR
Next election dont forget The politicians holding up national health care.They are beholding to their biggest donators. The unscrupulous bloodsuckers have made fortunes off the misfortune of generations of americans.They will fear monger,threaten,use wedge issues or pay goons to disrupt significant dialouge.Next election KEEP AFTER send them back to the rocks they crawled out from under! c4xfire
SMike: To quote one of your heroes, "there you go again". I never wrote anything about the Rebups having to adopt policies of the Far Left in order to win. I wrote that they need to move TOWARDS the Center-Left when selecting some candidates, just like the Dems had to move TOWARDS the Center-Right when selecting some of theirs. The implication here is (to me), that the Dems were too far to the Left prior to '06, while the Repubs are currently too far to the Right. Using McCain as an example of a Moderate Republican losing is disingenuous. He fell in the line by catering to the Far Right, made a horrible choice for running mate & ran a slipshod campaign showing a startling lack of self discipline. He certainly was dealt a raw deal by following Bush & the crashing economy he presided over, but he blew it on his own as well. Personally, I wouldn't have a problem with a True (financial) Con. My problem (& many in this country) comes when the Social-Religious Right is allowed to have one of the louder says in governing. yobill626
smike, there may not be polling data to show a longing for far left (non)values but there's little evidence to indicate a longing for the far right either. The R's don't have a significant lead in polls - indicating a displeasure with all of it. The country seems to be longing for a system in the center without a lot of screaming and yelling about the evil of the "other side" We have been lulled into assuming that the last XX presidents were such and have found that not to be the case. JimR- Obama’s Health Care News Conference Facts vs. Obama July 23, 2009 Summary President Obama tried to sell his health care overhaul in prime time, mangling some facts in the process. He also strained to make the job sound easier to pay for than experts predict. Obama promised once again that a health care overhaul “will be paid for.” But congressional budget experts say the bills they’ve seen so far would add hundreds of billions of dollars to the deficit over the next decade. He said the plan "that I put forward" would cover at least 97 percent of all Americans. Actually, the plan he campaigned on would cover far less than that, and only one of the bills now being considered in Congress would do that. He said the "average American family is paying thousands" as part of their premiums to cover uncompensated care for the uninsured, implying that expanded coverage will slash insurance costs. But the nonpartisan Kaiser Family Foundation puts the cost per family figure at $200. Obama claimed his budget "reduced federal spending over the next 10 years by $2.2 trillion" compared with where it was headed before. Not true. Even figures from his own budget experts don’t support that. The Congressional Budget Office projects a $2.7 trillion increase, not a $2.2 trillion cut. The president said that the United States spends $6,000 more on average than other countries on health care. Actually, U.S. per capita spending is about $2,500 more than the next highest-spending country. Obama’s figure was a White House-calculated per-family estimate.
And on a minor point: the voter intimidation in Philly's 14 ward last year. Aside of the political shenanigans that make the story real, the two clowns dressed up in 60's Panther garb (the equal of KKK poll watchers in Alabama)weren't likely to be scaring any McCain voters away since the area was likely to be a 99% lock for Obama from the get go. It proved to be, and these knuckleheads got 15 minutes of fame by showing the bizarre side of Philly politics to the rest of the country with no context of how REALLY bizarre it can get. Pick a better example. JimR- gphilly- you can report Xi and myself to the Obama Regime at flag@whiteshouse.gov
- yobil626- For you to say that Republicans have a blind allegiance to conservative values flies in the face of such Republicans like John McCain, Olympia Snowe, Arlen Spector etc. In fact the reality is that Republicans seldom all vote the same way. We were never working with super majoritiies in either house. At times we had a slight majority but nothing more. The Iraq War Resolution and the Patriot act were actually voted for in a bipartisan fashion. But you are just plain wrong that we should gravitate to the left to win. We just did that with John McCain and lost. Which is why you guys are terrified that a true conservative will win our nomination. There is not one piece of polling data on the issues that indicate Americans have values similar to the far left of your party. Look at Obama's campaign. He basically ran as a tax cutting fiscal conservative in order to win. He went to great measures to disguise his true radical leanings and with the help of a complicit media he got a away with it. But you can't hide from who you actually are forever. And we are seeing that now.
Funny thing: last week another columnist on Philly.com wrote about the lack of political civility in the the last XXX years and a large part of the responses were posts trashing the "other side" (not making any arguments regarding the article) which only made the writers point. It was almost comical. JimR
So, now that we have decided that "the other side" is responsible for the lack of civil discourse, who is going to be the first one to take the high ground on this and bring it all back in line? JimR
I think the labeling of DINO's & RINO's is part of the problem. You're right in the fact that the Dems can pass what they want, but the Dems haven't shown the same blind allegiance to Liberal values like Repubs have shown to Conservative ones. And I think that's OK. That's what you get when you have a bigger tent. You're also right about the fact that Dems moved towards the Center-Right in some of their recent candidate selections. Its exactly the mirror image of what the Repubs have to do (move towards the Center-Left) with some candidate selections in order to raise their Party numbers. yobill626
HIstory shows that its likely the Dems will lose seats in '10. Right now the Repubs are in the toilet, but its more because of the long term erosion of their voting bases, which is giving the opportunity of the more extreme elements to have more influence. Watch them pick up seats in the House & in Governorships and stay @40 in the Senate. The Repubs won't address their long term problems until they get their clock cleaned in '12 with Palin being the nominee. yobill626- yobil626- I did not say Obama wants to bankrupt the nation. I said he knows another entitlment will bankrupt the nation. I am sure he wishes we were not in such deep debt. The debt grows by the trillions no matter who is in power. My problem in all this is I don't understand the controversy. You have supermajorities in both houses. Anything you want to pass can get passed. To sit here and blame Republicans smacks of scapegoating. Your problem with your agenda is with people in your own party. Lets call them Dino's. Democrats In Name Only. These are guys who gave you a majority but the problem is they dressed up like conservatives to get elected. What it should be telling you is that any hope of some eternal majority is an illusion at best.
- p diddy- It is all cyclical. I think it is unwise for either party to pontificate their eternal sucess. The current trends are not in favor of the Democrats with Republicans leading large in Virginia and New Jersey governor races. I don't have a crystal ball but I think more balance will be restored to our government.
Mike S.: I don't mind the Democrats losing seats if that's what it takes to get healthcare reform passed. But I think the Democrats will do fine in 2010. It's the Republicans who should be really worried. If they lose even more seats in 2010, there's no way for them to continue without some drastic changes. It would be a crushing blow to Limbaugh-style conservatism. p-diddy
Swedes: Wall Street firms were both McCain's and Obama's top contributors. Wall Street gave marginally more to Obama because they knew he was going to win. p-diddy
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You left-wing morons are unbelievable hypocrites!!! I guess ACORN and the SEIU just to name two aren't called upon by the "idiot-in-chief" to cause trouble..... You morons need to start listening to someone besides this idiot Polman.... Your control on power will end on 2010 and be totally done on 2012 when we get rid of "The One", and hopefully another liberal idiot will be gone when this paper finally folds!!!! Mike S.
SMike: C'mon now --- EVERY President loves his country & wants to do what he thinks is best for it. As much as I despised Bush, I never doubted his love of the US. Those on the Right that claim Obama WANTS to bankrupt America are just off base. He most definitely can't get his own guys in line, but if he's convinced its best for the country & will save us money in the long run (which I do on both counts) he needs to get this done. He's done just a decent job on selling the idea that its best for the most citizens, but has failed on showing the cost vs. value to us on the back end. yobill626
Comment removed.- yobil626- You are correct. If Obama wants a healthcare bill just pass it already with a party line vote. But I think the problem is he knows it will bankrupt the nation and wants the poltical cover of bipartisanship. His problem is he can't get his own party in line for this and then there is the dubious donations that healthcare insurers have made to Democrats like Ted Kennedy and Mary Landrieu. Bottom line is the whole healthcare bill is a mess at this point. It would appear to me that many democrats really don't want a bill. All they want is to campaign that they want a bill to please their constiuency but those pesky lobbyists from the healthcare lobby have been so generous so democrats that they would never sacrifice the donations.
- hejiria33312- do you just call anyone who disagrees with your left point of view a racist and a member of the KKK? It is actually very pointless to debate with you if that is all the intellectual ability that you bring to the table.
- P diddy- what in the world is that link you put on here? Are you trying to bore us to death with the musical vibes of Sonny Shorock? LOL
- P-diddy- you said " As far as the bailouts are concerned, if McCain had won the election, we'd be seeing the same massive bailouts we've seen under Obama (and Bush, lest we forget). My problem is not with the bailouts, it's with the lack of regulation that should have accompanied them. Goldman Sachs is engaging in exactly the same sort of duplicitous trading they engaged in before the crisis broke. But maybe Bush should have addressed the fact that Goldman Sachs paid 1% (1%!!) income tax last year. Let's put this in perspective. Goldman Sachs took in $2 billion in profits last year, and paid a puny $14 million in taxes. Also, back when we had a surplus, what did Bush do with it? ""..................... I don't totally disagree with you. In fact it is just as well that Obama won so the horrific policies of big government liberalism happened while a Democrat was in charge. And you are correct that the proper regulation of our financial system is not in place. But you have to remember that many of the execs at Goldman Sachs were big contributors to Obama's campaign. We would not have had Ronald Reagan without American's first witnessing the foolishness of Jimmy Carter. One thing I would like to clear up is the myth that we ever had surplus. In the link below is our historical debt. The fact is that Bill Clinton grew the national debt by 1.2 trillion dollars. To his credit he got within 20 billion of balancing the budget in 2000 but never ran a surplus in any year. So say we had a surplus is to believe in the Arthur Anderson style of accounting that was fashionable at the time. ........................ http://www.treasurydirect.gov/govt/reports/pd/histdebt/histdebt.htm
chicago gutter thug ? You have some serious racist leanings if you believe that the articulate and thoughtful President Obama is a gutter thug whatever that is in your KKK programed mind. How many of the goons at these meetings have a deep seated prejudice towards anyone with a bit of tint in their skin, I'd guess 100%. I can not imagine what hate speech you spew behind clossed doors but I am sure it covers every small minded ideaolgy that is killing any meaningful discourse in this country. If you love your country its your right to speak out but not at a level that spawns even smaller minded people to harm others. hejira33312
Listen to this: www.youtube.com/watch?v=jks0N05l4OY p-diddy
Obama is really missing the point in getting this health care bill passed. He wants to get everyone to agree with him, but this country is just too diverse (with way too many PAC interests). He's in the driver's seat, so he needs to man-up & just drive the bus in the direction he wants to go. If he takes more right turns then wrong, he'll get rewarded in the polling booth. yobill626
You know, maybe this universal health care isn't such a good idea. Seeing all those loud, fat & stupid people screaming & crying in these town halls makes me not want to have these people covered in any plan I might be in. yobill626
Gee, Dick really hit it out of the park when he picked this topic to get folks riled up. 222 hits & it just turned into Sunday. You Polman-haters are really helping show the Inquirer why they should fire him. You guys do know that in the blog world, its all about the hits, right? yobill626
Just yesterday Palin was perpetuating this phony nazism stuff by saying that Obama's plan would mean people appearing before "death panels" that decide who live and dies. In reality, the policy she is referring to only would offer death counseling and hospice care, IF someone wants it. I find that kind of bad faith offensive. You can't engage in an honest debate with someone making those kind of charges. p-diddy
First off, I never said Bush and Cheney were Nazis. But some of their policies were police-state type policies. Spying on American citizens without authorization, torture, extraordinary rendition, the expansion of presidential authority, etc. were fascist tactics. Even the name "Patriot Act" is Orwellian. The FBI list of something like 400,000 names that are considered potential security threats is another example. The birthers are racist. There's a lot of white resentment on display right now that was unleashed because a black president won the election. Remember Palin implying that cities were not "real America"? But to call Obama's plan to help 47 million without insurance to finally get coverage "Nazism"? That's stupid. p-diddy
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bill at: Let me see if I understand you correctly. You think Obama is a Nazi? You know he's black, right? Also, the Jewish people don't appreciate the "Nazism" charge against Obama. They feel it serves to demean the Holocaust. The "Nazism" charge doesn't even rise to the level of hyperbole, because there's no connection. But I must admit I find the spread of such nonsense fascinating. p-diddy
As far as the bailouts are concerned, if McCain had won the election, we'd be seeing the same massive bailouts we've seen under Obama (and Bush, lest we forget). My problem is not with the bailouts, it's with the lack of regulation that should have accompanied them. Goldman Sachs is engaging in exactly the same sort of duplicitous trading they engaged in before the crisis broke. But maybe Bush should have addressed the fact that Goldman Sachs paid 1% (1%!!) income tax last year. Let's put this in perspective. Goldman Sachs took in $2 billion in profits last year, and paid a puny $14 million in taxes. Also, back when we had a surplus, what did Bush do with it? After shooting down healthcare reform in the 90's, Republicans were in a position to effect their own brand of healthcare reform during the Bush years. But they didn't, because the GOP doesn't want to reform healthcare. They only began to talk about it during the election because they were forced to. p-diddy
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Comrade Xi: It's not going to be paid for in one or two years. No one is going to completely overhaul the healthcare system and balance the budget. Another Bush voter who all the sudden has qualms with spending. At least we get something out of THIS. p-diddy
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Comrade Xi back from reeducation, where were you when Bush was digging this hole? At reeducation? Why don't you go play with the bully's they seem to be more your type, we would like to have an adult conversation sans the hate that your party is so expert at dealing out and which will finally bring an end to the horrible freshmen antics you all drool over. Obama has been burdened with this economy and two wars from Bush and Cheney and their fascist party that backs them. Just like the mess Clinton had to clean up after the first Bush. What a travesty your policies are. Now go play somewhere else where you can feel empowered and loved because we have stopped pitying you and your WWF mentalities long ago. hejira33312
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Xi - Why are you so angry? Is it the male tookus odor? the stupid does burn
"The changing global climate will pose profound strategic challenges to the United States in coming decades, raising the prospect of military intervention to deal with the effects of violent storms, drought, mass migration and pandemics, military and intelligence analysts say. Such climate-induced crises could topple governments, feed terrorist movements or destabilize entire regions, say the analysts, experts at the Pentagon and intelligence agencies who for the first time are taking a serious look at the national security implications of climate change. Recent war games and intelligence studies conclude that over the next 20 to 30 years, vulnerable regions, particularly sub-Saharan Africa, the Middle East and South and Southeast Asia, will face the prospect of food shortages, water crises and catastrophic flooding driven by climate change that could demand an American humanitarian relief or military response.......... 'We will pay for this one way or another,' Gen. Anthony C. Zinni, a retired Marine and the former head of the Central Command, wrote recently in a report he prepared as a member of a military advisory board on energy and climate at CNA, a private group that does research for the Navy. 'We will pay to reduce greenhouse gas emissions today, and we’ll have to take an economic hit of some kind. Or we will pay the price later in military terms,' he warned. 'And that will involve human lives.'" - NY Times, 8/8/09 WHY IS OUR MILITARY PERPETUATING THIS LIBERAL HOAX???!!! the stupid does burn
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Such stupid righties that post here - have never been right about a single thing in their comments, but give them an A for persistence - stubborn, stupid, and persistent: http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/the_daily_dish/2009/08/pelosi-wasnt-hallucinating-ctd.html TwoLanes
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Tom: Small business won't have to pay for their employees insurance. The employees would be able to opt into a government plan. In any case, a major reason for reform is that many small businesses can't pay for insurance because the current premiums are so high. In other words, more people will have insurance. Which is the entire point. p-diddy
OBAMA: "Ok Biden, that's that. We've drafted an entirely new healthcare system. Give me a couple stamps so I can mail this sucker out to Reid and Pelosi." p-diddy
Swedesboro: When did I say healthcare reform was free? I said that the bulk of reform is going to necessitate higher taxes on the wealthy. It's going to be hugely expensive, so naturally the bulk of the funding is going to come from wherever the bulk of wealth lies. I don't think this is going to be free at all. p-diddy
Tom: You're so clueless. Obama's strategy came out of the lessons learned from the failure to overhaul healthcare during the Clinton administration. This project requires loads of maneuvering and political gamemanship by the Obama administration. You pretend that it's simply a matter of drafting a plan and submitting it to congress. The president isn't going to submit a DETAILED plan to congress for something as complex and controversial as healthcare. To do so would be to invite members of congress to become bogged down in disagreements over relatively minor issues and killing reform. Instead the Obama administration has provided general guidelines and has worked with the pertinent committees to insure those guidelines make into the final bill. In order to achieve reform Obama needs to force joint ownership on congress. Obama set rough guidelines because he doesn't want the whole endeavor to be shot down over details. I know they probably didn't teach that when you learned how a bill becomes a law in high school, but that's the reality. p-diddy
Nice comeback. You can use this one in your next post. Oh Yeah. I like your statement about Congressman never lying. It kind of explains why Philadelphia has voted one party for 55 years as the City has gone into the toilet. tr88
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God no, a Congressman would never lie. My what brainwashed fools liberals are. tr88
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Glad to see you now think an investigation is warranted - even though you somehow know the outcome. Why are liberals so dumb? tr88
Miller's office turned the death threat over to the Capitol Police. Like any investigation outside of water boarding , it may take some time to give you your evidence, but I am sure some beer stuffed moron is behind the treat. Hope hes wetting himself in fear of jail time. hejira33312
A North Carolina congressman says his Washington office received a death. Yep thats what he says while at the same time the Democrats and the media are having an all out blitz to demonize the protesters as crazies. I wouldnt take what a democratic congressman says at face value on this issue without some evidence. tr88
Just took some time to review the demographics of most of these goon squads that Beck has released, mostly over weight very white people who are using the scream tactic ( perfected by Bill OReiley) to bully and disrupt any reasonable connversation. Veal is all they are, fattened, milk feed, restricted and led to slaughter by their corporate masters. When Obama became president and reached across the aisle it was a time to be heard, now after the months of nit picking even programs that are working ( cash for clunkers) these overstuffed Goons are screaming about wanying to be heard. Foolish cattle, your place in history is sealed by the fiasco of Bush propaganda and Beck crocidile tears. hejira33312
A North Carolina congressman who supports an overhaul of the health care system had his life threatened by a caller upset that he was not holding a public forum on the proposal, his office said Friday. Democratic Rep. Brad Miller received the call Monday, one of hundreds the congressman's office has fielded demanding town-hall meetings on the health care proposal, said his spokeswoman, LuAnn Canipe. She said the callers were "trying to instigate town halls so they can show up and disrupt." Hope they track the person down and shove them in a dank moss cover hole. hejira33312
"I'll be long gone before some smart person ever figures out what happened inside this Oval Office." --George W. Bush, Washington, D.C., May 12, 2008 hejira33312
of course reading bills that are coming up for vote would take much needed time away from begging special interests for campaign contributions... and they wonder why people are upset? randall man
BTW ,for all the Union haters, they gave us 40 hour work weeks, lunch breaks , child labor laws and safe work place regulations. They may have gotten out of hand in modern history but equal to the greed of the corporations management , look it up and learn. hejira33312
Odd, The video I saw yesterday showed some rather large individuals providing "security" at an event who weren't the least bit concerned with pushing people around and depriving them of their right to free speech. Looks like the days of the progressive brownshirts are back! Change we can all goosestep to! Norton
Republicans blowhards trying to sweep the Bush years under the rug when the whole time Bush bumbled his way around the oval office they blamed Bill Clinton for everything , except the surplus which was gifted to all of GWB's rich playmates. If you had held his feet to the fire maybe , just maybe the country would be in better shape. Thousands of our young men dead in a war he created and lied to the populas in the state of the union address.. As I stated before the thoughtful people in the country read and research the talking points , there are websites dedicated to digging out the lies from both parties, so the misleading propaganda is a calculated waste of time by insurance companies and their lobbyist. But in this forum we get people that would rather deport people from the other side then compromise. I think the hate has taken over and the discourse that we once had, the give and take of molding a bill that is best for everyone not just the special interest and people that can afford representation rules our government. Just how many babies are uninsured? How many of those babies were given the chancee to live after the mother was swayed by the prolife people? So logic dictates that once a baby is born prolife and the republicans feel its the babies responsibilty to fend for itself. Screaming about government take over of a free market insurance is like screaming about anti trust laws , with their dying breath the firms that were to be regulated played the same scare tactics as the insurance companies of today. hejira33312- July proved the most difficult month of his young administration. His approval ratings dropped. Disapproval of his major initiatives rose sharply. Neither the House nor the Senate met his deadline to pass a version of health care. Finally, the White House and its allies at the Democratic National Committee ended up in a high-pitched argument over whether citizens protesting health care were expressing real or manufactured anger ........... Dan Balz from the Washington Post................... This is so true. We are now embroiled in a conversation as to wether the protesters were from an organization. How silly. All these protests, wether they are from a left wing group or a right wing group, are organized. This is like telling me the sun rises in the East
- Two Lanes- Thanks for the research. You do know that the Swastika the protester is holding up with the words " No Repeat " isn't exactly an endorsement of the Nazi party right? The message the sign is trying to convey is that Obama's nazi tactics need to stop. This isn't the insinuation that Nancy Pelosi is making by her statement. She is implying that the town hall meeting protesters are in support of the Nazi party. But perhaps I am assuming that you are a smart guy.
Today's Republicans: http://mediamatters.org/blog/200908070008 TwoLanes
RodneyRoz- What in the world does that comment mean? Are you really this ridiculous? If you should want to open your ears and eyes the right's position is published on the RNC website. ModerateMike
What kind of leadership is this when a sitting President goes to speak to a crowd in Virginia and says " the people who made the mess need to be quiet " I don't think I have ever seen a more divisive President in my lifetime. This man is a perpetual campaigner who is not suited for this office. He is tearing the country apart and the direction this debate on healthcare is heading is ugly. I mean" union heavys" showing up to intimidate people at a town hall meeting? I can only see this escalating in the wrong direction. I don't have much faith in this President but I at least thought he would have the temerity to try to calm the situation. Instead he appears to want to fan the flames. ModerateMike
All I ever hear is attacks from the right but yet I have not heard any solutions. RodneyRodz
The Democratic party is panicking, lashing out like a cornered animal, all because its effort to take over the health-care industry is coming apart like so much wet toilet paper. Nancy Pelosi, who will get her own bound volume in the annals of asininity, has outdone herself. When asked by a reporter whether the protests at various town-hall meetings represented legitimate grassroots opposition or were manufactured "AstroTurf" stunts, she replied, "I think they're AstroTurf. You be the judge. They're carrying swastikas and symbols like that to a town meeting on health care."..................... Just a question but do any of you on this blog actually believe what Nacy Pelosi is saying about the town hall protesters? swedesboromike
Liberals have run out of gas. There is nothing left in the tank. All they can do at this point is bring up Bush, which nobody cares about anymore. Comrade Noodlehead
P-diddy and his ilk are as clueless and out of touch with America has Nancy Pelosi and Comrade Obama. Obama is going to be the first lame duck president in history after only 9 months in office. Comrade Noodlehead
It is a disgrace that Obama is asking Americans to rat out other Americans who disagree with the White House. What kind a President asks citizens to report other citizens directly to the White House? Obama is not "big brother", he is "big bro". Comrade Noodlehead
pdiddy- you can't pay for these things without increasing taxes massively on everyone. Nothing in this world is free so evenentually they wil work their way down to you. Healthcare is great and all but if it destroys the prospertiy of everyone, what will we really gain? In the end we'll have worse healthcare and everyone will be poor. Deep down I kinda think that makes a person like you happy. swedesboromike
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yobil626- In Corzine's defense he try to get the municipalities to combine and or share services but every little feifdom fought him tooth and nail against that. So the bottom line is that we have the highest property taxes in the nation and one of the biggest causes of this is we have more municipalities than any state in the union. There are other thing is that Corzine wasted money on such things like billions for embryonic stem cell research. My point on this is that if the research is so promising then surely private capital will fund it and that a state in such dire budget woes should not be looking for things to spend money on. He insitituted a millionares tax that was supposed to bring in 3 billion in additional money. And what happened was not only did it not bring in more money from this segment of wealth earners it actually lowered revenue by 1.2 billion. Basically the millionaires either left or found a way around it. It is this misguided tax policy that causes the state to be non competitive with such states like Delaware. swedesboromike
Chris matthews fired up a few Nolan Ryan "Hardballs" last night. One of his segments looked at the racists behind the Town hall uproars. Chris asked "Pulitzer Prize winning Journalist, Cyntia Tucker, editpor of the Atlanta Journalist Constitution and BFF"S with all the black editorial writers who mimic each other what percentage of these protesters are "racists" and were demonstrating just becasuse they dont like a black President. Tucker repsonded thoughtfully "45 to 65%". Did Matthews fire back a hardball asking her she divined this information? Nope, he asked what percentage of the protesters were Sarah Palin supporters and Tucker came back with a scientific "about the same" HA! http://newsbusters.org/blogs/mark-finkelstein/2009/08/07/cynthia-tucker-45-65-townhall-protesters-are-racists tr88
Wow, the NY Times did look into Anti Iraq War Demonstrators. look at this "hard-hitting" piece on Leslie Cagan (An original member of the vanceremos brogade}. HAHAHAHAHA, liberals are so stupid to think they can continually brainwash us with misinformation. http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/18/nyregion/18nyc.html tr88
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Most of the "so-called thugs of the right" are true independents, who are critical of the way two party handling of this economic mess. It is their democratic right to be heard, not to be bullied by both sides of the government.... Dadair1- All we ask, is for them to "READ THE BILL" Spector said it , to big and last minute changes we can't read the whole bill. We the people will get what we deserve, just remember in 2010 and 2012, vote these idiots out Dems and Rebs.
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I dont recall the Inquirer of Dick Polman or any of the major dailies, networks and all cable outlets except one having the same interest in discrediting the Iraq Anti-War Organizers. Good communists and America haters all. For example, take a look at ANSWER, Leslie Cagan, (an Original member of the Venceremos Brigade), the entire lineup really joining hand in hand with the Union organizers. Shameful double standard by our liberal media to attack good Americans and to give the haters a pass. tr88
camtheman :50 and 60 year olds screaming about the government taking over health care while they are in a government run health care program. You have no idea how stupid they are. Tell me again when the Iraqi oil is going to pay for the Iraq war. Philly-Mughsots
diddy...so you are saying no president should submit a plan to Congress about legislation he wants passed? He should just sit back, let them write the bills, and then just sign whatever they put in front of him? Bush actually wrote bills with members of Congress...such as NCLB. What does it say about Obama and his leadership if he just sits back and does nothing except sign his name. The President should set the agenda, set the parameters, offer guidance, make suggestions, give a plan. Even Dennis Hopper says "you need a plan". If Obama just lets Congress write the bills on their own, then he deserves what he gets. And what happens next year when taxes on the wealthy go up automatically....should we increase them even further? How high should they be? What happens to all the small businesses who make up a large number of those wealthy when they get the double whammy tax increase? Will they then go out and hire 10 more people? Bad strategy, and there is not enough money in the trough. Besides, cutting costs deeper and deeper will just cause more rationing of care. Just where do you think we are going to get all the doctors to treat all the additional people, and who would want to be a doctor, go several hundred thousand dollars in debt thru student loans, and then have their salary dictated by the government with reimbursement cuts. Nah, bad strategy. tom - wilmington, de
Vernon...you are correct. Especially with all the civil debate over the past 8 years prior to Obama. I mean, the left was so nice and fair to Bush, never doing things like making movies about his assassination, shouting for him to be impeached, disrupting Congressional hearings where his staff was to testify, or anything like that. Political debate was so civil from 2001 to 2008....I wonder what happened to those good old days. tom - wilmington, de
hej....I do not know if they are correct or not, I live in DE and am not an expert on Chris Christie history. However, judging by the way campaign commercials run, there is probably some truth and some falsehoods in them...just like everyone else's commercials. And I bet if you did follow Christie around you would be listened to and not attacked by SEIU members like that guy in St Louis. Those darn Republican thugs..... tom - wilmington, de
Here is a question....how can Obama go around saying he inherited a $1.3 Trillion deficit when the budget deficit just hit $1.3 Trillion in July...six months after he took office. Isn't the deficit he inherited the none that was in place when he took office? And isn't he just speaking with so much dignity and class that fits the office of President of the United States? Telling the American people to just, in essence, shut up? Not even Clinton did that when he took office. And Bush NEVER said "9/11 would never have happened if Clinton had just killed Bin Laden when he had the chance, or Jamie Gorelick had never written that memo about DOJ and CIA not sharing information". tom - wilmington, de
The sad thing in all of this is the fact that some people who proclaim themselves to be "real Americans" don't seem to have any clue as to how our Republic works. They insist it was formed as a "Christian Nation" when it wasn't. It was formed as a secular Republic. They insist that those who disagree with them are unpatriotic. In reality dissent is the cornerstone of the democratic process. They talk about the "Founding Fathers" and their values when everything they say shows they have never read one word written by these men. Politics in America has always been contentious and always will be. But this recent wave of right wing redicalism has done more to undermine the very foundations of the Republic then anything that has come before. We have moved from heated debates over differences in opinion into pure dogmatic hatrid fanned by a dangerious ideology bent on bringing about their flavor of a monotheistic world view. God help those of us who don't conform. B Vernon
NJ may be a solid blue state, but it has had quite a few Repubs as Governors over the last couple of decades. I happen to think Corzine has really tried to straighten out the state financially, but he's had every bad break go against him, besides not coming across as one of the warmest guys around. Corzine is too far behind in a bad economy to get a second term. yobill626
Tom: Of course the Obama administration isn't going to submit a detailed plan for healthcare to congress. That would be a surefire way to have it shot down. But I do agree with the general thrust of his attempt at reform - a government run insurance program. The program will be paid for mainly by a tax increase on the wealthy, along with cost cutting measures. We live in a society where the top 1% of income owns 90% of the wealth. Something like this would have to require a tax increase on the wealthy. p-diddy
Whats Christies campaign schedule? I wonder if I make a couple signs and start questioning Christie at the top of my lungs how long would I be allowed to stay in the room? hejira33312
yeah, so you are saying Corzines commercial facts are correct? Cause I don't hear you disproving them. Jersey is way to Democrstic anyway. hejira33312
hejira....Corzine has been running those commercials for weeks, and Christie's lead has only grown. I believe people care less about that than they do the mess Corzine has created in New Jersey. tom - wilmington, de
While attorney general, Chris Christie Awarded a $52 multimillion-dollar contract to former Bush Attorney General John Ashcroft. Awarded David Kelley, a prosecutor, with a multimillion-dollar no-bid contract. Kelley investigated but declined to charge Christie’s younger brother, Todd, in a stock fraud case. Awarded John Inglesino, a longtime Christie friend, adviser and fundraiser, a $10 million no-bid contract. Approved the tracking of citizens through their cell phones without warrants, ignoring a U.S. Justice Department recommendation that prosecutors obtain probable cause warrants. hejira33312
Chris Christie's health care proposal would Allow insurance companies to offer mandate-free, bare-bones policies that leave consumers at risk if they get sick or hurt. Not require insurance companies to cover such procedures as mammograms, childhood checkups or prostate cancer screenings. Cause premiums for older workers who need more coverage to increase and leave younger, healthier workers with plans that may not cover them if they get sick or hurt. hejira33312
The Rethugs motto on healthcare (to quote James Brown): "I got mine - ain't worried about his." They just don't care about the greater good. johngilb
Rove Helped Arrange Christie’s Appointment as U.S. Attorney. According to the New York Times, Karl Rove “helped arrange the nomination of a major Bush campaign fund-raiser,” Chris Christie, who “had little prosecutorial experience.” (New York Times, 3/29/09) hejira33312
Republican challenger Chris Christie has regained his 13-point lead over incumbent Democrat Jon Corzine in New Jersey’s closely watched gubernatorial race... I think this is a good barometer of what the electorate thinks of the Democrats in charge. Youve overreached greatly and you will lose at the ballot box. It is all nonsense. quite frankly I get fed up with all of them and wish they would all retire so true statesmen could run. I mean are you guys serious! Union Thugs at town hall meetings? Is this what it has come to? At this point I think you libs deserve to get everything you want along a party line vote. swedesboromike
yoda....great. Then you read the CBO report that the current House plan increases the deficit in the first 10 years, then really increases it in the second ten years. You've seen the polls saying people think this plan will increase calls, ration care, and they do not want it. As for the Obama plan being whatever comes out of the House/Senate conference committees....WOW. Great leadership there. As for my statistics....prove one thing I have posted on this site in my numerous posts today that is incorrect. Just one. Go ahead...everything I've posted I've provided either the source or the link. I always supply a link.....but debate is all about opposing views, not always agreeing. So when you scan what I've said here today and cannot refute anything....I appreciate your apology. tom - wilmington, de
meanwhile back in the states hospital are closing everywhere http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/28394340/ from 12/08 hejira33312
Nice article in the WSJ "France Fights Universal Care's High Cost"...http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124958049241511735.html. Seems as we go toward government health care, France is moving away from it...instituting co-pays, closing hospitals, cutting prescriptions, rationing care. Of course, none of that will happen here under the House plan, or Obama's plan (whatever that is). tom - wilmington, de
I am just showing how much help your side needs, reckless spenders who can not govern a full term or string a sentence together. Thats why all the quotes, and I am being a goon....freedom of speach ! hejira33312
Tom, this just continues to get more hilarious..."cherrypicked statistics?"??? Your reputation precedes you...anyone who's been on this blog more than a month has seen you get called out for fake statistics over and over - you are a master chef who posts no statistic before it is fully cooked! I would go so far as to say Mark Twain should have made your acquaintance, because then the famous quote would be "There are lies, d**ned lies, statistics, and Tom from Wilmington's statistics"! I don't pay attention to any statistics posted here, lib or wingnut, because they're probably all cooked. I get my facts elsewhere (NYtimes, WSJ, Economist, BBC, Business Week, CBO...). yoda
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Oh, geez, I can't keep up...Tom, the Obama health care plan is whatever comes out of the House/Senate conference committee. How could you ever imagine he would be stupid enough to offer details that the lobbyists, health insurance companies, and faux medical interest groups could pick to pieces? Do you think they didn't learn from the Clinton fiasco? Obama's people are way ahead of the obstructionist sappers...they've got them off in a corner screaming at the wall while they are moving their agenda inexorably forward. Like I said before, wait for the votes, and watch the result come out the way Obama meant it to. He's WAY smarter than your team! yoda
yoda....fish in a barrel for sure...I have checked out several polls...WaPo/ABC; NBS/WSJ, CBS/NYT, Rasmussen, Zogby, Gallup, CNN, etc etc etc...yet I have not seen a poll stating what stupid stated...that republicans in congress have a 10% approval and 75% disapproval...not even on the Research2000 website. I guess you didn't either, since you also did not supply the link. All I ask is for some substantiation...this is the same person who cherrypicked one line in the Quinnipiac poll which showed overwhelmingly people do not believe the current House plan will accomplish what they supporters say it will. All he did was say people supported a public option, but neglected to state all the negative results. So, where is this magical poll showing the 10%/75% Republican fav/unfav results? tom - wilmington, de
hej...what is the purpose of all those statements, and how is it relevant to the current health care debate? tom - wilmington, de
I can't resist...fish in a barrel...Tom, re the 8:55 post, so you like the stupid burning so much you want "the stupid does burn" to go find you a poll even lower than the pitiful ones you are used to seeing? I hesitate to ask where you like to feel the stupid burning you...weird kinky for sure! And doggone lazy, as usual... yoda
I'm just wondering...exactly what is the Obama health care plan? We have a plan from the house, and we will get a plan from the Senate. However, have we ever heard what Obama wants as a health care plan? What types of coverage does he want, how does he want to pay for it, when does he want it to begin, who does he want it to cover, how will it intertwine with medicaid. Obama has not come out yet and offered a plan. Do we even know if he supports the current House plan in its current form? tom - wilmington, de
"I'm the mayor, I can do whatever I want until the courts tell me I can't.'" --Sarah Palin, as quoted by former City Council Member Nick Carney, after he raised objections about the $50,000 she spent renovating the mayor's office without approval of the city council, what a civic minded woman....great role model for future hater war mongers kid hejira33312
two lanes...I know polls show people want health care reform...but like I stated in the recent Quinnipiac poll...people do not want this health care reform. I believe you stated people want the current plan to be enacted...and the polls simply do not back that up. tom - wilmington, de
Major combat operations in Iraq have ended. In the battle of Iraq, the United States and our allies have prevailed." Bush speaking underneath a "Mission Accomplished" banner aboard the USS Abraham Lincoln, May 1, 2003 $895,550,152,905 the cost of both wars so far. hejira33312
pagoda, republicans have a plan....check it out at Eric Cantor's website. However, nobody polls on the Republican plan for several reasons, chief among them they are not in charge, their plan will not get debated, and their plan will not be voted on. It matters little what people think of the Republican plan unless somebody polls on it, but since they (as you, Polman and many other liberals stated several times) matter little since they are out of power. tom - wilmington, de
See, in my line of work you got to keep repeating things over and over and over again for the truth to sink in, to kind of catapult the propaganda." --Greece, N.Y., May 24, 2005 (Listen to audio clip) hejira33312
stupid does burn...please post the link to that poll showing Republican favorable at 10%...I cannot find it, although I find others showing Republican favorable low, I cannot find one that low. tom - wilmington, de
"I'm the commander -- see, I don't need to explain -- I do not need to explain why I say things. That's the interesting thing about being president." --as quoted in Bob Woodward's Bush at War hejira33312
wendy wendy wendy...read the CBO report. The current House plan adds to the deficit over the first 10 years. During the second decade, the deficits get even higher because for the first 10 they have the benefit of collecting taxes for 5 years before the health plan even takes effect. So, on the out years (i.e. the second decade), the deficits grow greater incrementally. You are right about one thing though..a simple google search would find out these facts. You should try it sometime. tom - wilmington, de
Think About the Vets! Palin on Ethics Complaints July 21, 2009 – 10:36 am Sarah Palin wants you to think about the vets when you file ethics complaints against her. On July 20th, Sarah Palin received her 19th ethics complaint. Her Twitter account lit up with a rambling steam of conscious which she tried to mold into the argument that if you file an ethics complaint, then you don’t support the troops. Here is a direct copy/paste of her twitter thread (warning, it’ll hurt your brain to parse it into meaningful chunks of information): “In violation of Ethics Act more allegations were filed today by serial complainer;gave to press be4 we could respond;ridiculous, wasteful…it costs political critics NOTHING to file/play their wasteful game;They should debate policy in political arena,not hide w/process abuse…BUT if there was a suit to end public waste of time/funds to constantly address false allegations I could see perhaps a veteran filing it…someone who’s put their life on the line protecting even opponents’ right to speak & protest, was willing to die for freedom of press but knows it’s shameful 4 valuable time& public resources to be diverted frm needed causes to deal w/this abuse of govt accountability system…Hopefully these political critics filing this stuff (& some in press perpetuating it) appreciate the freedom to do so, protected by our vets” Here’s the summation: Ethics complaints are wasteful. That’s because vets die for the freedom of press. Because of that, we shouldn’t make ethics complaints, unless the complaint is filed against the people who are filing complaints about her…then it’s okay (and also, Vets should do it). hejira33312
Regg_PSU88...I wonder what your 401(k) was invested in before the crash that you've recovered 80% of your losses. Seeing that the DOW was at 14,000 and the NASDAQ was above 2500 and the S&P was around 1500, you must have been in a 2% interest account to not have had too high a value to have recovered 80% by now. Either that or you got in late. By the way, to whomever posted the remark....what recessions in 2004 and 2006. Did we have a recession in 2004 and 2006? tom - wilmington, de
This is hilarious. Obama and his troops were touting unemployment lowering to 9.4%. However, in the AP article describing this as good news was this little tidbit...buried about half way down..."In fact, the main reason the unemployment rate declined last month was not an inspiring one: Hundreds of thousands of people, some discouraged by their failed job searches, left the labor force. The labor force includes only those who are either employed or are looking for work. If laid-off workers who have given up looking for new jobs or have settled for part-time work are included the unemployment rate would have been 16.3 percent in July. All told, 14.5 million were out of work in July. Job-seekers are finding it harder to get work because there are so few openings. A record 4.97 million people had been unemployed six months or longer in July. And the average length of unemployment grew to 25.1 weeks, also a record." Gee...we heard all through the Bush years that unemployment was not really as low as reported, and now it seems the same is true during the Obama era. Funny how that was not included in Obama's talking points today. tom - wilmington, de
proof, ummm I live right up the street from the court house, what do you want photos or video I have friends that were involved so I'll check if the video are still on youtube. I think the one difference in the left and right protests is the dems typically show respect for the office whereas the Pubs have been trying to be Bill OReileys and scream down the people they are supposeldly asking questions of. They are truly one step away from the mad mob in the movie Frankenstein, or maybe lemmings marching towards the cliff while their corporate masters chuckle from on high. I believe most moderate people look into the facts and will make their own mind up, and the grandstanding is half world federation wrestling , half KKK meeting. hejira33312
Wow, this issue sure generates a lot of noise, not just in town meetings but on this blog too! I would suggest, though, that before anyone pays too much attention to the shouters, you need to understand that with Team Obama, as with Team CheneyBush, you need to watch what they are doing, not what they are saying. The last crew used to say all sorts of cheerful, positive things (remember the Clean Skies Act or whatever they called it?) while actually running the most heinous, evil, corrupt, fraudulent state-sponsored criminal enterprise ever seen in America. Conversely, Obama says all sorts of hope & change stuff, which is very inspiring, but when you look at his accomplishments, you realize that this guy gets it done. He passed the stimulus bill, took over the car companies, set serious re-regulation of Wall Street in motion, ramped up a huge surge in Afghanistan which just 2 days ago killed the top terrorist in the AfPak region, and got pretty much everything he wanted, or expected to get, in the health care bill. Shouters can scream all they want, but the American voters elected Obama to do exactly what he is doing, and he's doing an amazing job of it, considering his helpers are people like Nancy Pelosi and Harry Reid. Now that unemployment may perhaps be recovering, he's well positioned to be riding a massive economic recovery right around November 2010. If the Dems can win 3 or 4 more Senate seats in 2010, it's lights out for the Rush party. yoda
By the way, what you say is factually untrue. Middle class people pay a larger percentage of their income for premiums than the wealthy do. That's why so many middle class people have been forced to go uninsured. Small businesses often don't provide insurance for this same reason. p-diddy
We're already paying for people to receive medical care who have no insurance. That's a big reason why premiums have skyrocketed. p-diddy
It isnt Obama giving you a handout P-Diddy it's the people who are yelling that are paying for it, just like they pay for everything. tr88
I personally don't care about polling data. I want healthcare reform. The reforms Obama wants stand to save me a lot of money, while also providing me with insurance. p-diddy
friend & george: Yes, there is a big difference between marching on Capitol Hill and denying the other side their right to speak. People who are against healthcare reform need to create a message beyond "no". If they want the status quo, then that should be their message. As for friend's charge that the effort to reform healthcare is political: Of course it's political, but it's about much more than winning an election. It's about making a tangible improvement in the lives of millions. p-diddy
p-diddy, It's "..kill healthINSURANCE reform..." Keep up with the polling data. A Friend
Obama on the campaign trail last fall, telling supporters to argue with their neighbors and get in their faces if they don't see things his way: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZCMDur9CDZ4 Now, they're being told to report those same dissenting neighbors to the White House. justwondering
Stifle debate?? What debate?!?! If it weren't for the mid-term elections next year - THERE WOULD BE NO TOWN-HALL MEETINGS!! I wouldn't be surprised if the DNC was organizing these confrontations. And enough with the, "we were righteous protestors and you're not" nonsense. A Friend- Leftists are excercising there free speech rights. Right wing mob of goons. Now I understand.Commie moron. georgel
NEPhilly: I think 2010 is absolutely huge for Republicans. If they don't pick up seats, the party will change drastically. Republicans know this. Their best hope is to try to kill healthcare reform because it will be a major defeat for Obama. I think the intensity of opposition we're seeing has very little to do with healthcare policy. Dude, the "opposition" doesn't even have a focused counterargument. p-diddy
Tom from Wilmington: It doesn't matter what they are shouting - the intent is to shut down debate. In fact the protesters are instructed to shout, it doesn't really matter as long as no one else can be heard. I remember doing something similar when I got into a fight with my brother - when I was six. I think some of the protesters are real grass roots activists, but many of them are Astroturfers - polls simply don't support the level of opposition we've seen. A USA Today/Gallup poll shows most people want a reform bill passed before the end of the year. p-diddy
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p, we will see you in 2010 & 2012, don't you worry:) hej, what does McCain and Palin have to do with anything, other than Pres. Obama stealing the very idea McCain had to fund healthcare reform and he ridiculed during the campaign? Repubs are doing the same thing dems have been doing for years, organizing at the grass roots, and letting our congressmen know where we stand on an issue! It is called democracy and the Pres. should recognize communities organizing and their right to do so! NEPhilly
tjm: I attended anti-war protests that were organized in part by Moveon.org, among others. But I have no affiliation with them whatsoever, I just happened to agree with them about the war, like most of the millions of people who attended anti-war protests over the past several years. This is different. The healthcare lobby isn't organizing general protests to get their message out, they are organizing to stifle debate. Big difference. p-diddy
hejieria33312- What proof do you have of this? swedesboromike
The reason for the great division and polarization to which you refer SMike is the hatred of Obama by these angry white voters. Nothing he does or says will appease them. They hate him for what he is. mxlplk
The day McCain and Palin were in Media at the courthouse before the election the Pubs actually were having people arrested that had signs against McCain and Palin ! They were standing silently and because the crowd was screaming at them they were arrested . Another thing about that day, the pubs parked on peoples lawns and blocked driveways, blocked handicap access ramps, they were the most unlawful , selfish group of people I ever saw ( most about 100 pounds to heavy as well) in one place. I turned Obama's "Yes we Can" speech up and put the speakers out the window and called the cops on the people blocking my drive. Can't wait till Palin shows her face around Media again , I won't mind pulling the same smack on her the pubs are pulling, she thought she had it rough then...... hejira33312
I have no problem with people showing up to the town hall meetings and raising reasoned objections. But these people who show up to the town hall meeting with the goal of disruption are wrong. I remember the outrage when some Columbia University students shouted down the leader of the Minutemen. Where's the outrage now? I really think the Republican party as we know it is now in its death throes. They obstruct without having any ideas of their own. I mean healthcare is a huge issue, but if McCain had won the election we wouldn't even be talking about it right now. p-diddy
Amazing. The left has spent the last week decrying the tactics that they themselves have been using for years. The disingenousness of the reporting on these town halls has been astounding. Are protests not "orchestrated" by special interests on the left? moveon.org, seiu, acorn, george soros. I find the shout-downs distasteful and unproductive, just as I have similar actions by the left, especially over the last 10 years. The hypocrisy is abosultely astounding. PS: please don;t report me to the white house. tjm333126
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Just a couple of thoughts on all this. I have seen protesters throw pies in the faces of Ann Coulter and Pat Buchanan while speaking at college campuses. Acorn and moveon.org certainly organize and mobilize protests and disruptions at town hall meetings, the Republican convention and various other places. But I missed the article that Polman wrote deriding these activities from left wing groups. Only now that the community organizer is getting a dose of his own medicine is it a problem. To make matters worse we now have reports of liberal groups harrasing and using intimidating tactics to silence the conservative groups. I guess we aren't going to be singing Kumbuya any time soon. We are probably more divided and this president more polarizing than any before in our history. I would have thought that Obama would try to temper the situation a bit but it appears as though he is fanning the flames of divisiveness by declaring that " we don't need to hear from the people who created the mess". I tell ya folks this man has lost control and his remarks today were even less presidential than calling the Cambridge police stupid. I can see the direction this is heading and I tell you that sooner or later someone is going to get hurt at one of these events. swedesboromike


