Flash, cash, crash
The downfall of a well-heeled Clinton buddy
Flash, cash, crash
Dick Polman, Inquirer National Political Columnist
When I heard last night that Terry McAuliffe - the legendary Democratic money man, former national party chairman, and longtime Clinton buddy - had been decisively trounced in the Virginia Democratic gubernatorial primary, I couldn't help but remember the story about Terry and the alligator.
True story: Back in the mid-1980s, when young McAuliffe was already cementing his reputation as a fundraising wunderkind with an unparalleled gusto for greenbacks, he met up in Florida with a group of Seminole Indians. They had money, and he was determined to get some of it flowing to the Democratic party. So he made them a deal, one that was more unique than his usual deals for money. He offered to wrestle an alligator. (There was such a creature in the vicinity, and it weighed roughly 260 pounds.) The deal was that if he wrestled it with some modicum of success, the Seminole Indians would have to fork over $15,000. So he did the gig, and they paid up to the Democratic party.
I cite this episode because it gives us a flavor for McAuliffe's outsize personality and dealmaking, his determination to network far and wide at all costs - the same kinds of traits that ultimately helped doom him last night, in his failed bid to enter elective politics and become Virginia's Democratic candidate for governor in 2009.
It's certainly true that Virginia has recently been trending blue - it voted for Barack Obama in 2008, elected Jim Webb to the Senate in 2006, and elected two Democrats in succession for the governor's job - but there's something about McAuliffe that seemed woefully ill-suited for that state. His personality is too flashy, he flashed too much money, and on the trail he flaunted his farflung national political friendships. Even though McAuliffe and his family have lived in Northern Virginia for years, he came off during the primary campaign like a national heavyweight in search of a launching pad. In short, he looked like a carpetbagger who had parachuted into Podunk.
We all generally bemoan the notion that well-financed candidates can virtually buy their way into office. But quite often, the opposite occurs; candidates with lots of money often lose, simply because they seem to be about nothing except their money. (For instance, California is a notorious boneyard. GOP voters have recently rejected three wealthy businessmen who wanted to become governor: Al Checchi in 1998, Bill Simon in 2002, and Steve Westly in 2006.) McAuliffe actually tried to be substantive, at one point offering a detailed plan to pull Virginia out of recession, but there was something about the size of his war chest that turned off the Virginia voters.
Bottom line: He raised roughly $7 million for his primary bid, tapping his network of big-shot national donors, and in the end three-quarters of his money came from out of state. That tab is more than double the amount raised by Creigh Deeds, the rural state senator who wound up winning the primary last night. Deeds raised only $2.83 million - yet he waxed McAuliffe in the vote tally by a margin of roughly two to one.
Money isn't everything, particularly when it winds up looking like a negative character trait. AFSCME, the public employe union, gave McAuliffe $600,000 - which may have been a perceptual asset had McAuliffe been running for office in a northern state (such as his native New York), but Virginia is not exactly union-friendly and many Virginians who vote Democratic tend to be wary of anything that smacks of the traditional liberal label.
Moreover, McAuliffe was essentially trying to sell himself as a highly connected guy. Donald Trump gave him money. Ed Rendell did a video endorsement. Democratic Gov. Brian Sweitzer of Montana flew in, and hit the trail with the candidate. (Were Virginians supposed to know who Sweitzer was, or care?) Bill Clinton hit the trail, too. McAuliffe clearly thought that Bill was an asset, because he kept saying at rallies, "Look, I know Bill Clinton!"
And that was supposed to impress Virginians? Those voters rejected Bill Clinton in the '92 presidential election and again in '96. And since last night's low primary turnout was by definition dominated by those most knowledgeable and motivated about politics, it's a fair bet that many remembered McAuliffe's role as a key player in some of the seamiest '90s money-raising episodes. After all, it was his idea to rent out the Lincoln Bedroom to high rollers, and to sell face time with Clinton. And although he was never charged with any wrongdoing, his name repeatedly surfaced in connection with an illegal money-laundering scheme involving the Teamsters and the Democratic National Committee in 1996.
Indeed, it's significant that McAuliffe began to free fall in the polls when the third candidate in the Democratic field, Brian Moran, began to air ads attacking McAuliffe's long history of corporate dealmaking ("working insider deals for himself"). As often happens in three-way races, the ads hurt the target (McAuliffe) as well as the attacker (Moran), with Creigh Deeds benefiting on the rebound.
All told, McAuliffe seemed too closely linked to the "national" Democratic party (particularly the pre-Obama brand that never played well in Virginia) - whereas Virginians, characteristically, preferred someone a tad more home grown. Hence, Deeds the underdog.
Moreover, Obama's political lieutenants are probably relieved that McAuliffe lost. They realize that, fairly or not, the impending November gubernatorial election will be framed in the national media as some kind of referendum on Obama specifically and Democratic fortunes generally, so they might as well be grateful that the more electable guy got the nomination. For starters, Deeds is perceived as more politically moderate than McAuliffe.
Facing off against Republican Bob McConnell, Deeds will win the heavily Democratic vote in Northern Virginia just as McAuliffe would have - but, as an unflashy rural guy (he hails from the second smallest county in the state), he'll perform far better than McAuliffe in rural western and southwestern Virginia, areas that have recently proved pivotal for successful Democratic candidates such as Webb, Mark Warner, and Tim Kaine.
Besides, the Obama people will probably be relieved that they won't have to dispatch Obama across the Potomac to stump for a Clinton buddy who chaired Hillary's primary campaign and spent much of last year on TV assailing Obama. Win or lose in 2009, at least Obama won't have to wrestle that particular alligator.
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In a column five weeks ago, I referred to the GOP as the Older White Guy Party. Well, this is precisely what I was talking about:
For the latest USA Today/Gallup poll, Americans were asked to identify the person who speaks for the Republicans today. The top five "winners" were Rush Limbaugh (cited by 13 percent), Dick Cheney, John McCain, Newt Gingrich, and George W. Bush.
Leaving aside the embarrassing fact that 52 percent of Americans couldn't even name anybody, and leaving aside the fact that the plurality winner is a radio demagogue, it's mostly worth noting the key trait shared by those top five finishers.
They're all older white guys.
Which is not an opportune image to have, given the fact that, according to USA Today 's report on the Gallup stats, the GOP is currently suffering "an erosion of support across almost all demographic groups — the steepest decline since
Ed Rollins, the veteran party strategist, put it best when he said that, as Republicans, "we're in the basement of a 100-story building."
Comments (77)
Dems are already falling faster than the Inky's finances. In New York, they lost control of the state senante (of course it is not reported in the media outside Albany). They are falling in Europe. Wonder why?— CD75- Corzine is next. His fall will be fun to watch.— CD75
Comment removed.- McAuliffe, while having a dynamic personality, would have been a terrible Governor for VA, and most likely would have cultivated an highly corrupt atmosphere there. Deeds can pull out a (close) win, with the right message.— Chris_CRHS1981
- A ponderous examination of Dem politics in VA. Thanks, Dick.— A Friend
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- Gotta love our VP, big mouth Joe. He said today to a national convention of cops that Sotomayer "has their backs". Nice. Real fair and balanced. I guess Joe knows since he was on the judiciary commitee and vetted her. Do we really want an addmitted bias on the Supreme Court?— CD75
- CD75.("not reported in the media outside Albany.") It was on the front page of yesterdays NYT with a follow-up piece on today's NYT.— Chris Landee
- Did Polman know this was coming? Pretty much underscores his column from yesterday. http://www.gallup.com/poll/120806/Limbaugh-Gingrich-Cheney-Seen-Speaking-GOP.aspx Palin was identified as a leader by 0.5% of 1,015 respondents. Ouch! – she was their party’s VP Nominee only 10 months ago, for crying out loud … rally up that base – Romney/Palin 2012 - you betcha! If a serious leader who can speak to the independent voters and moderates of both parties does not come forward by Fall 2010 at the latest (since Presidential elections now start 2 years out, Spring of 2010 is more realistic), the GOP is done in Presidential elections for a long time to come. The Congress is a whole other animal – the Dems have only themselves to lose to …— Abbey_Robe
- VP Biden is the gift that keeps on giving:) Add him to Speaker Pelosi and Majority Leader Reid and shake well and you have the makings of a GOP win in 2010 and talk of a supermajority shattered! You have the liberal wing of the democratic party in full charge of the levers of power in Wash DC and we all see what you get. Runaway, irresponsible spending, exploding govt. growth and a weary world tired of seeing us living beyond our means! Not as Marge has said the adults back in charge in Wash DC, but a bunch of career political hacks trying to run companies, fix financial companies who followed govt. fiscal policy to a T, run insurance companies, change the rules of the TARP $$$ after the fact, attack private citizens with the threat of specific taxes on their bonus', etc! Just as Europe seems to be moving to the right, we are moving to the left and it doesn't make sense! The govt. does nothing well and giving them all this power just spreads its inefficiency, corruption and bloat to more of the economy, IMHO :) Do you think Obama would take back that Biden pick if he had to do it over again?— NEPhilly
- Who oversees all these czar's and makes sure they are not abusing their power? ***WASHINGTON — The Obama administration on Wednesday appointed a compensation czar who will have broad discretion to set the pay for 175 top executives at seven of the nation’s largest companies, which received hundreds of billions of dollars in federal assistance to survive. The mandate given to the new compensation official, Kenneth R. Feinberg, a well-known Washington lawyer, reflects the federal government’s increasingly intrusive role in the corporate affairs of troubled companies. From his nondescript office in Room 1310 of the Treasury building, Mr. Feinberg will set the salaries and bonuses of some of the top executives in America, including Kenneth D. Lewis, the chief executive of Bank of America; Vikram S. Pandit, the head of Citigroup, and Fritz Henderson, the chief executive of General Motors.**** http://www.nytimes.com/2009/06/11/business/11pay.html?_r=1&hp— NEPhilly
- jwad (D): Um, no simpleton. VA is NOT the US, just a state (commonwealth actually) within the US. Deeds simply needs to run a campaign that addresses the high unemployment in the state and extending benefits, keeping the state moving forward (remember, it is in a heavy wave of blue support right now), and having the President (who won the state) campaign for him. And he’ll have the entire, powerful national Democratic apparatus working for him. McDonnell, while not a weak candidate per se, has a fight, a good one, on his hands. Deeds seems to be more representative of today’s voters in VA than McConnell, who reflect the voter’s views of about 20 years ago. VA has had quite a few transplants (my brother and his family, along with several friends and co-workers were re-located for their DOD jobs from Philly to a Richmond suburb – once Red up to 2005, now solidly Blue) over the last decade and they are not the traditional southern republicans that the VA GOP could have relied on before.— Chris_CRHS1981
- McAuliffe loses the Dem primary in VA....big deal. I guess with the Reps in such disarray, the Dems could nominate a tortilla chip and it would win, right? Polman has to write about Palin, losing Dems and anti-Republican. He cannot honestly write about anything being done in Washington, Afghanistan, Pakistan, people losing their businesses, people being foreclosed on and evicted from their homes, or anything else that permeated these pages B.O.(Before Obama). Could you see his post if McCain had won in November, when unemployment was 6.7%, and his economic prediction of unemployment capped at 8% was 1.4% too low? Gallup poll showed that, even though Obama is popular, more people are dissatisfied with his handling of spending (51% to 45%) and the deficit (48% to 46%) for the first time since his election. Obama is following lots of Bush programs on terror and the detainees, much to liberal base chagrin. So, Terry McAuliffe lost, but who cares when the opponent party is just a bunch of old white guys that have no leader and no agenda. This is similar to the dire straits of rhe Republican party in 1983....and who won the next two Presidential elections?— tom - wilmington, de
- If they don't like the arrangement, they are free to resign, seek high-paid employment at another company, and send them down the tubes too.— phlcynic
- The NJ Governor election will be interesting to say the least. I like some of what Christie is saying, but ultimately, he has no management experience, especially managing finances. While Corzine has not helped himself by raising taxes, cutting the homestead rebate and his car crash, I still think he's better than Christie. I'm not sure how Christie will balance the state budget without resorting to budget gimmicks like Whitman used in the 90's and NJ is still paying.— chasing history
- I wasn't aware that the Democrats had a party that ran for election all over Europe.— HandNik
- People want to bash the GOP and claim they will soon go the way of go dodo, but realistically, think back to the 2004 election, the fact that John Kerry got nominated shows what kind of dire situation the Dems were in back then. Kerry turns off so many people, had the Dems had a real canidate in '04 they would have won. Same could be said for Gore in '00. What good qualities Gore has, they disappear based on his personality. For two elections the Dems really should have won, but put out canidates that you couldnt get enthusiastic about. Right now the GOP is in that position, but be it '12 or '16, bad things will happen while in the Dems are in power (their fault or not) and someone with some personality will come along from the GOP. Its all cyclical.— Greg S
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- chasing history, how do you blanace the state budget in NJ? Get rid of the bloated payroll of state employees. I have to work with state govt a lot and I can tell you that nothing gets done, even though NJ has an absurd ammount of state employees.— Greg S
- I think it's a good thing the nationally connected, well-heeled (and possibly corrupt) candidate lost to a person the electorate could relate to better. My caveat is that 'W' won on chummy, have-a-beer-with electability, but his skill with governance was a tad lacking. Unfortunately, like the gerrymandered red district turned blue in NY state, I'm none too interested in VA politics. If my interest is going to get piqued about regional politics elsewhere, I crave local impact. For example, I wonder whether Pawlenty will certify the Senate race in Minnesota that would seat a 60th D senator. He says he would, unless.... ••• http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,525101,00.html— Phrossty
- Security Alert! Danger! An Guantanamo prisoner is being tried on U.S. soil! All righties should stay in their homes until further notice!— Djoko Pritza
- Says NEP: "VP Biden is the gift that keeps on giving:)" Giving what? Doesn't seem to hurt the Dems. NEP goes on: "we are moving to the left and it doesn't make sense!" That's the point, NEP, the country is moving away from the Repubs, and they, and you, still don't get it! Your party and ideas have failed ... and failed not in theory but in practice. Give 'em up!— Djoko Pritza
- jwad, I live in the deep South. Things are NOT good down here at all. The Southeastern states have the highest H.S. dropout rates,lowest graduation rates, lowest SAT scores, lowest numbers of people with bachelors' degrees or higher, highest prison populations (GA #1), highest obesity rates, highest poverty rates ... on and on. Be glad you live where you do.— NigeltheMastiff
- "Security alert!Danger!a Guantanamo(or an Guatanamo,whatever) prisoner is being tried on U.S.soil.All righties should stay in their homes until further notice." I guess all lefties should break out the brie & the '04 Chateau St.Jean Chardonnay.— (reeducated)Yankee Air Pirate
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Another Clinton Apparatchik bite the dust! Z----ZZZZZZ!- it too early to declare the Republican Party a domestic terror group?: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/31208188/ Religious extremists, Gun lovin' extremists, ant-government extremists ...— Mandy_C63
- djoko, do you think Pres. Obama would pick someone else for VP, if he could? Do you think he will keep him for 2012? Palin probably would have conducted herself better as VP than Biden has! she couldn't have done worse:) I bet Pres. Obama would lock Pelosi, Reid and Biden in that secure bunker under the VP residence, if he could:) The country is about to move back to the right as the dems have overreached, again!— NEPhilly
- jwad, you do get something for your tax dollar in NJ. The state is always in the top three in education statistics (graduation rates, etc.)in the U.S. Here in Georgia, salaries are low, taxes are low and the quality of life is fairly low.— NigeltheMastiff
- Polman fails to mention that the VA governors race is sort of a rematch. Apparently these two ran against each other for VA Attorney General. In that race, the Republican won, by a narrow margin.— tom - wilmington, de
- I want to address this stupid daily story about who speaks for the Republican party. Since when has this mattered? Who spoke for the Democratic party after Al Gore was defeated and John Kerry was defeated. In 1984 Walter Mondale lost every state in the nation except one. Who spoke for the Democratic party at that time? In the aftermath of a a lost presidential election there are many voices vying to be the leader of the party out of power. It's called Democracy! This business of deliverying the eulogy of the Republican party on a daily basis is about as phony as it gets. When the party in charge has only that fact that they won the last election to cling to as sucess then you know they won't be in charge for long. Insurmountable debt and rising unemployment has all but sealed the fate of any hope democrats have of being a long term majority. Leadership is not about constantly crowing about winning an election. Leadership is actually sound governance that reduces debt and improves the economy.
- Let's see....the only names the media uses when discussing Republicans are Rush, Cheney, W. and Hannity. How many times do you ever hear them talk about Paul Ryan or Eric Cantor? Meanwhile, it is being reported that the Justice Department is now ordering FBI agents to mirandize any combatants captured on the battlefield in Afghanistan before sending them to Bagram Air Base (Obama's GITMO). If true, that would contradict what Obama said back in March about these guys being undeserving of Miranda rights. I wonder why that is not all over the conservative media, like the new Gallup numbers on Obama and spending/deficit, Jeremiah Wright trashing "them Jews" who will not let Obama talk to him, and Letterman talking about Palin's teenage daughter getting knocked up by A-Rod during the 7th inning of the Yankee game. Where is that conservative media?— tom - wilmington, de
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- You never cease to amaze me with your misleading articles Polman. The old white guy forum works for the dems to - Biden, Reid, Frank, and then you thorw in that old white woman Pelosi, and hang your hat on Obama (mixed racial even though you will call him black to make you seem right and show the Dems care about minorities even though Dems would rather they NOT have jobs so they do not wise up to the fact the government rips them off) as the only one not "old". Bush and Limbaugh are not the "old" you were going for anyway you liar. Maybe once you can write somethign that does stink of either lies or misleading information.— reddog44
- chasing history: Corzine not only cut the property tax rebate but he raised the sales tax and was supposed to dedicate half of that money to the rebate (BEFORE the recession started).....I hate to break the news to you but NJ has been in financial straits since Florio. The bottom line is they either need to cut services and/or layoff workers. Even if they do layoff thousands of workers, that really isn't going to change the underlying financial problems in the state.— chasing history
- Nigelthemastiff- The schools are good here in suburban South Jersey but we could have that without paying so much in school taxes. My township is the fastest growing muncipality in the state by percentage. Which isn't saying much since a decade ago we were nothing than peach orchards and tomato fields. But we got discovered and the developement started. Now we have a separate schools( all new) for Kindergarten, 1st& 2nd Grade, 3rd&4th grade, and a school for just 5th graders. Do you see a cost problem? We are hamstrung by the state which mandates a school be built no bigger than a 3 year population projection. On top of that the State goes crazy funding poor school districts with declining enrollent and funds virtually nothing for what is considered rich school districts( we are not rich,we're average). On top of all this we have more municipalities than any state in the nation. I drive through 3 townships on my way to the ACME. And there is the recipe for the highest property taxes in the nation. Did I mention that as a state we are, and have been run top to bottom by Democrats for a very long time.
- Well, jwad, I lived in NJ for 30 years and managed to live an OK lifestyle -- certainly better than I have here, with more services and more resources. Northwest Georgia is breathtakingly beautiful, but it's very classist. There's a huge divide between the haves and have-nots. The same families rule the roost from one generation to the next (maybe that's just small-town, though). I had so many friends in NJ, but here there is a couples-only mentality, so I find myself rather isolated. My experience in coming back here hasn't been very positive overall.— NigeltheMastiff
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- Where have all the Repubs gone? MSNBC reports: "Homegrown hate groups increase in number. Civil rights group blames recession, election of first black president"— Mandy_C63
- Let's talk about something more upbeat like the General Motors boycott......OK Al Sharpton. Actually, my Accord is getting up there in age and mileage. I looked at the new Chevy Malibu over the w/e. Pretty sweet ride for a 4 door in that price range.— chasing history
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- mike, your problems have more to do with poor local leadership then anything else. Your mayor is spending millions to build a municipal building you don't need with money he doesn't really have. While some of your argument about the state requirements is valid, it's also not completely right since many of the schools in South Jersey are regional, specifically Kingsway and Clearview, the two closest to where you live. So while there are a lot municipalities, they all don't have the schools that you portray. They all have lower schools but then go to a regional high school which saves the individual municipalities a lot of money. As for your comment about which party has had control of the state for a long period of time, perhaps you should check again. Starting from Tom Kean (keeping it somewhat modern history here) Repubs have been in office as Gov for 16 years (Kean 8 & Whitman 8) while Dems have held the office for 12 years (Florio 4, McGreevey 4 and Corzine 4 - rounding of course). Additionally, both Kean and Whitman served two consecutive terms which gave them more time to implement policies. As for the state House and Senate, Repubs controlled both or split with Dems for the most part from the mid-80's through 2003. After that Dems have had control over both houses in NJ. So, in truth, Repubs have had greater control of the state over the last 20 or so years. As for your little berg, you need to get rid of Chila and the rest of his Dem cronies as quickly as you can. Oh, and see if they'll take their buddy Sweeney with them.— amg
- swedeboromike: go and read "The Soprano State" if you want to get REALLY worked up. It goes into a lot of the corruption from Florio to present, the party bosses, NJ's non-existent ethics laws, pension-padding, patronage, pay-for-play, and all the rest of it. The writing isn't especially good, but the research and reporting is first rate.— still_independent
- AMG- You certainly know your Woolwich Twp politics. Don't get me started the Taj Mahal of Municipal buildings. My plan would be to give all the township employees a pay raise have them work out of their homes. If a meeting needs to occur they certainly could have used one of the 7 schools we have.
- Still Independent- I don't think I could stand reading that book. I love the state. Especially South Jersey but hate the taxes and the politics.
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- I hear they will be reading Miranda rights to enemy combatents in Afghanistan. I wonder if they will read to these people in English or their native toungue? You can't make this self up. The War on Terror is now called Overseas Contingency Operations and now we're gonna read em Mirand rights? Sheesh! The libs are going to lawyer this whole thing up.... Who would have thought this is where it would end up on 9-12-2001. I thought we had gotton beyond treating this problem as a law enforcement issue. But leave it the libs to mess it all up. sigh
- NEPhilly, I agree Biden might engender second guesses. If I were Obama, I'd find another veep candidate for 2012, explaining that we, the Dems, need to prepare someone for 2016 and Joe is too old. BUT, to say Palin compares favorably -- that sentiment just bolsters the argument that you guys on the right are so dense! So slow. So not getting it. I'm happy you offer such little effective opposition, but I must admit it depresses me that I have to share the planet with people so clueless.— Djoko Pritza
- SMike, you keep making this argument: "I want to address this stupid daily story about who speaks for the Republican party." It is clear this issue, the lack of a Repub heavyweight and your inability to pinpoint one, really bothers you. So you go on the attack. I look forward to your continued flogging of this argument. When you quit, you will know you've finally found someone. Good luck.— Djoko Pritza
- "Meanwhile, it is being reported that the Justice Department is now ordering FBI agents to mirandize any combatants captured on the battlefield in Afghanistan before sending them to Bagram Air Base." By whom is this being reported? Rush? Fox? Hannity? Newt? Sarah? Beck?— Djoko Pritza
- "By whom is this being reported? Rush? Fox? Hannity? Newt? Sarah? Beck?" A US Congressman who is a former FBI agent; note that Gibbs is not denying it: "A senior Republican on the House Intelligence Committee is accusing the Obama administration of quietly ordering the FBI to start reading Miranda rights to suspected terrorists at U.S. military detention facilities in Afghanistan. The move is reportedly creating chaos in the field among the CIA, FBI and military personnel, according to Rep. Mike Rogers, R-Mich. -- Rogers, a former FBI special agent who served in the U.S. Army, just returned from Afghanistan and a visit to Bagram Air Base, where he said the rights are being read. -- Asked if the Obama administration had ordered that Miranda rights be read to certain detainees, White House spokesman Robert Gibbs said, "I have no reason to disbelieve a member of Congress. But I don't know any of the circumstances that are involved around it." But Gibbs acknowledged that it wouldn't be a surprise to find out that it was happening."— Vandy
- New Jersey has not been the same since Brendan Byrne won re-election running on the platform "I will make the state income tax permanent" back in the 1970's on the heels of Watergate. Take the Abbott decision on school funding, all the corruption, exceedingly high auto insurance rates, school districts that have no schools, all the sprawl from the farmers selling to the developers, and the fact South Jersey always gets dumped on by the North and you have one messed up state. I grew up in Glassboro (moved to DE in 1991 at 30) surrounded by apple and peach orchards, produce stands all up and down 322, 538, 694, and 47 selling Beefsteak tomatoes from the Commordore Barry Bridge to Atlantic City (at least Rosie's is still there). What a mess that state has become due to runaway spending and too much pandering to every interest group known to man. And yes, we are now reading Miranda to captured terrorists on the battlefield. Next thing you know we will be paying for their public defenders.— tom - wilmington, de
- djoko, it was nice of you to criticize mike and NEPhilly, but do you have anything of substance to offer? Mike appropriately compared the liberal media(?) constantly talking about no leader of the Republicans to the Democrats in 2001, 2005, and, before that, 1988. Why is this any different? Who among the Democrats can be called a leader of the party after Obama? Patrick Leahy? Specter? Tim Kaine fizzled, Howard Dean is way too left, so who else has the "gravitas"? Before Obama, Hillary was probably the Dem party leader, and she is an old white woman. Republicans have young leaders like those I mentioned earlier...Paul Ryan and Eric Cantor. There is also Bobby Jindal (true he looked bad after Obama's speech earlier this year), Tim Pawlenty, Romney, John Thune, Huntsman (just named ambassador to China by Obama to get him out of the media range). There is also Palin. The problem is that the conservative main stream media (Polman clarified it is not a liberal media the other day) focuses on Rush, Newt et al instead of the current effective Republican leadership in the House and Senate. Who would have thought that after his 1988 keynote convention speech that Bill Clinton would have been the nominee in 1992. Who would have thought that George W would have beaten Gore in 2000? Anything is possible, and you should never count somebody out. So, do you have anything of substance to offer against the points NEP and SWMIke made in their posts?— tom - wilmington, de
- Vandy 10:39 PM, 06/10/2009 - any CREDIBLE news sources reporting this? I only found links to the FOX/GOP propaganda outlet and some other wingnut blogs that mention this without any sourcing other than 1 "anonymous" person - hardly credible by any standard, even for Fox. And why all the silence from you Repubs on the latest right-wing terrorist gunman ... it's deafening and very telling.— Mandy_C63
- Djoko- You don't address the point I am making. Your responses is another ta ha, hee hee I won and you didn't. Losing an election is not a novel experience. My point is that in the aftermath of a lost national election there will be many voices vying to be the leader of the party, as there should be. After 2004 you had Hillary and Edwards then eventually Obama. Frankly I consider it all childish bluster from your democratic surrogates and an obvious attempt at distracting everyone from a 700 billion dollar bill that hasn't stimulated anything. You are foolish to believe there is no political price that Democrats will pay. Look at the Virginia gubanatorial primary. Seems to me like a low key conservative with a D in front of his name trounced the flaming liberal( Terry McCauliffe) by 24 points.
- Djoko- The reading of miranda rights is being reported first by the only news source that does its job. Fox News. All the rest are nothing more than propaganada outlets for the Democratic party. So of course they are not reporting it! It would make Obama look silly once again. I heard one captured combatant actually called their bluff and wanted a lawyer. So I guess since you say the report of Miranda rights being read is fabricated you are agreeing that if true it would be very stupid? Right? I have a feeling once you find out it is true then you'll tell us how good it is to read miranda rights while on the battlefield
- "Vandy 10:39 PM, 06/10/2009 - any CREDIBLE news sources reporting this? I only found links to the FOX/GOP propaganda outlet and some other wingnut blogs that mention this without any sourcing other than 1 "anonymous" person - hardly credible by any standard, even for Fox." Calm down, Mandy; this is the excerpt from Robert Gibbs' actual briefing yesterday, from the White House itself; sheesh...nothing is made up, so perhaps a better question is why weren't the other media outlets reporting it? "Q Robert, something completely different. Mike Rogers is a member of Congress, Republican from Michigan, has come back from Afghanistan and he tells our network that while he was there he witnessed U.S. military personnel reading Miranda rights to high-value detainees at Bagram detention facility in Afghanistan. He said this -- was informed by the military there that this is a common practice now to, upon their capture of these high-value targets, read them the Miranda rights. And he considers this a significant policy change, one that suggests to him, at least, that the administration has changed the orientation in Afghanistan from war fighting to law enforcement with this use of Miranda rights read to detainees. Would you care to comment on any of those observations? MR. GIBBS: I think I'd need a little bit more information. Q Do you know if that's true or untrue, that the Miranda rights are read? MR. GIBBS: I have no reason to disbelieve a member of Congress, but I don't know any of the circumstances that are involved around it. Q Would it come as a surprise to the White House that that's what would be happening? MR. GIBBS: It's not a surprise to me" -- http://www.whitehouse.gov/the_press_office/Briefing-by-Secretary-of-Commerce-Gary-Locke-and-Press-Secretary-Robert-Gibbs-6-10-09/— Vandy
- The problem with criticizing the Repubs for lack of one voice and annointed leadership is that the Dems don't have much more to offer. Is Pelosi really the voice of the Democrat party? R's like to point to her but she's really a net loss to D's. And, as NEP wrote, Biden is the gift that keeps on giving. Obama is charismatic but his success is his timing in history rather than his vision. If he hasn't accumulated a lot of wins in the next two years, there's no one in the wings. Both parties are damaged goods. Looks like a good time for complete house cleaning or maybe a realistic third party.— JimR
- Comment removed.
- "And why all the silence from you Repubs on the latest right-wing terrorist gunman ... it's deafening and very telling." I'm not sure I understand all the hatred, Mandy. This anti-semitic clown should never see the light of day again. Why are you attaching him to the GOP, though? He's just a nut, plain and simple. He'd advocated conspiracy theories about 9/11 that more resemble the fringe left than the right, he hated the Bush/Cheney administration, and his hatred of Jews is ironically a lot more similar to the views of Jeremiah Wright than it is the "right-wing" folks you reference. But I would NEVER say this guy is representative of any segment of America's Democratic party. He's just a lunatic, plain and simple.— Vandy
- Bill - the "joke" was about Bristol the 18 year old. It's comical to hear the right wingers complain about the lack of civility after spending time denigrating their loyal competition. Ms. Palin ought to just ignore not feed the comments.— ModerateMarge
- Comment removed.
- OK, tasteless humor from liberal Dems is offensive. "Barack the Magic Knee Grow" played on Rush Limbaugh is funny. It's comedy, people. Nobody died. Both sides need to climb down from the high horse.— Phrossty
- tom, you only have one leader; that is the nature of the concept.— Djoko Pritza
- tom, what are those points you'd like me to respond to from NEP and SMike? I thought they were just putting forth more talking points. You might have noticed that most of what's posted here would not pass muster as serious debate, just heavily partisan trash-talking; hence, my feeling that responding to specific points is, well, pointless. Some people though enjoy the mental masterb*tion, and I say have at it!— Djoko Pritza
- Obama warns against anti-semitism as his former mentor complains that "the Jews won't let me talk to Obama." You can't make this stuff up.— (reeducated)Yankee Air Pirate
- Dick, you know everything. I guess all 55 million registered republicans in the USA are "old white guys".— CD75
- Dick, is too dumb to see that his obession with "whose your leader" is exactly what the repubs want right now. Before all the loons respond that is a silly thing to say, I challenge them to really, really think about it (I know, an oxymoran for them) and why Polman's view actually works to the long term advantage of the repubs. Keep it up Dick.— CD75
- It's amazing how the taste for rightwing paranoia makes people who otherwise might have some common sense just plain stupid. Reading Miranda rights to detainees in Afghanistan only ADDS to the remedies the US has against them, it doesn't reduce our options in any way. Mirandizing them means that if there's evidence of a crime under US law, they can easily be tried in our courts and put away. If not, they will be treated some other way. How little sense do you have that you can't figure that out?— liberal
- CD75 states: Dick, you know everything. I guess all 55 million registered republicans in the USA are "old white guys". Ah yeah , they are.......— hejira33312
- "Reading Miranda rights to detainees in Afghanistan only ADDS to the remedies the US has against them, it doesn't reduce our options in any way. Mirandizing them means that if there's evidence of a crime under US law, they can easily be tried in our courts and put away. If not, they will be treated some other way. How little sense do you have that you can't figure that out?" I respectfully disagree. I don't see how it helps our cause to Mirandize these folks and immediately inform them that they can choose to say nothing and go get a lawyer...who will instruct them further to say nothing. Why do we want to encourage them to remain silent?— Vandy
- @Vandy - My "Adam-12/Dragnet" knowledge of the law and its enforcement informs me that cases are thrown out of US court when suspects aren't read Miranda when initially detained. You're right. Encouraging high-value suspects to "dummy up" is counter-productive and counter-intuitive to gaining intelligence to combat terroism and its perpetrators. However, if they are to be tried on US soil, then "Mirandizing" would prevent the automatic dismissal of charges in a court of law (I presume). Therefore, I think it's a benefit on balance to so do.— Phrossty
- "However, if they are to be tried on US soil, then "Mirandizing" would prevent the automatic dismissal of charges in a court of law (I presume)." I don't disagree with the logic; I think the philosophical difference lies in the question of why would we want them tried in a US criminal court?— Vandy
- "[W]hy would we want them tried in a US criminal court?" Because blindfolding and shooting them in the field is, um, a war crime I believe. Spiriting them away to an undisclosed location for torture -- ok, enhaced interrogation -- isn't a palatable or viable option either. Basically, I'm fairly sure we don't *want* to try them on US soil. We don't have a lot of options that keep our values in tact while we fight the good fight against terrorism. Playing by the rules against scum who shoot at you from mosques, hospitals, orphanages, etc. is brutally tough. But if we're the good guys, we have to fight "fair." (Which is quite the dichotomy given "All is fair in Love and War." I guess that cliché is, uh, cliché.)— Phrossty
- "Because blindfolding and shooting them in the field is, um, a war crime I believe. Spiriting them away to an undisclosed location for torture -- ok, enhaced interrogation -- isn't a palatable or viable option either. Basically, I'm fairly sure we don't *want* to try them on US soil. We don't have a lot of options that keep our values in tact while we fight the good fight against terrorism." Was thinking more about utilizing military tribunals instead of the U.S. justice system.— Vandy
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Cited by the Columbia Journalism Review as one of the nation's top political reporters, and lauded by the ABC News political website as "one of the finest political journalists of his generation," Dick Polman is a national political columnist at the Philadelphia Inquirer. He is on the full-time faculty at the University of Pennsylvania, as "writer in residence." Dick has been a frequent guest on C-Span, MSNBC, CNN, NPR and the BBC. He covered the 1992, 1996, 2000, and 2004 presidential campaigns.
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