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Thursday, May 22, 2008

In order to temper the giddiness of Obama fans who may assume that victory in November is assured, I wish to discuss the candidate's greatest obstacle:

Voter ignorance.

It's not easy to raise this topic. It seems to be OK in this country to malign educated people, to dismiss them as "eggheads" and "latte-sippers," probably because there is a sizeable anti-intellectual strain in our culture. But I would suggest that stupid people should also be ripe for open discussion - if only because millions of willfully clueless voters may well function as the swing decision-makers in a close '08 presidential election.

And since we're finally talking about ignorance, I offer Exhibit A - the report of a focus group, featuring 12 independent voters, that was conducted earlier this week in swing-state Virginia by the noted Democratic pollster, Peter Hart.

Hart yesterday circulated this report to folks like me. He took pains to point out, in his summary, that his 12 focus-group participants are not close followers of politics. None of them voted in Virginia's Democratic or Republican primaries. All of them feel like "the election has been going on forever," but none of them have bothered to learn anything about it. All they know is what they have heard - or, more significantly, misheard. And these independents are potentially pivotal in November; in Hart's words, they "represent 20 percent of the electorate."

Kind of a big decision, don't you think? Choosing the next president? Yet, as Hart put it, much of what they know, or think they know, is "truly chilling."

For instance, here's Dorita, opining about Obama: "I'm a little concerned. I don't know enough about his Muslim background and their beliefs and how he views everything. I'm a little concerned. I need to check his background."

You do that, Dorita.

Here's Josh on Obama: "He's representing a minority in more than one case. He is African American and he is Muslim. And in light of that...it does feel like we're being judged or pounded down on because we want to carry a gun or we want to wear the American flag pin."

Here's Melinda, clearly the GOP's dream voter: "I just really feel like he's...not a people pleaser as in the Americans, but the other people who don't necessarily need to be pleased, the other, the enemies if you will, I don't know. I'm just not real positive on that."

Hart reports that whenever somebody volunteered that Obama is a Muslim (which he isn't), nobody in the room protested or sought to correct the inaccuracy. Hart writes: "When asked to raise their hands if they think that Obama is a Muslim, seven of the 12 do, including two voters who currently support him over McCain. One person mentions that she has heard something about him and the Pledge of Allegiance" - this would be the lie that he doesn't place his hand over his heart while reciting it - "and another believes that he was sworn in to the Senate with his hand on the Koran," whereas, in factual-reality world, this Christian was sworn in on a Bible.

Hart continues: "The importance is not that they are misinformed, but that there is such a gross lack of awareness about a presidential candidate who has written so fully and completely on his background and his childhood." But Hart is being too kind. These people - and millions like them, by his estimate - are willfully ignorant because they won't take five minutes to educate themselves on the basics.

Granted, they surely lead busy lives, they have every right to assign politics a low priority, and there is no reason to assume that they would like Obama any better if they armed themselves with accurate information. Fine. But at least they would not be so oblivious. All it takes to raise one's political IQ, in this era of instant communications, is a few clicks on the mouse or a few readings of a decent newspaper.

All told, Hart concludes: "For Barack Obama, who is on the verge of becoming the Democratic nominee, this must feel a little bit like the children's game of Chutes and Ladders, where as one climbs the ladder to a new plateau there is a new chute awaiting that sends the player back to the beginning." In other words, "it is time (for Obama) to start all over again in his introduction" to the electorate.

Fortunately for Obama, however, "he has an ample opportunity to tell his story," because these voters are so fed up with the Bush administration that they will strongly entertain a Democratic alternative.

Perhaps...as long as they can learn to distinguish between Obama from McCain on the issues. Because here's Danny, one of your fellow citizens:

"(The race) has gone on so long....They all kind of say the same thing. They're all saying the same thing, so what's to get excited about?"

Really? McCain and Obama are "saying the same thing"? Perhaps the maligned "eggheads" can enlighten Danny about that.

Posted by Dick Polman @ 8:28 AM  Permalink | 89 comments
Comments   
Posted 09:04 AM, 05/22/2008
MiddleNameHussein
Typical of the elite liberal media - they think everyone is dumb except them. And if you actually figure out how to get out of bed and find your poling place, if you don't vote Baraq Hussein Obama, you're just a dumb hick who can walk.
Posted 09:26 AM, 05/22/2008
tom - wilmington, de
While not as harsh as the prior post, I too am a little taken aback by today's entry. A lot of people who vote do not closely follow politics. Many are single issue voters (how many vote Dem or Rep based solely on pro-choice/pro-life stances); many vote a party line because that is how they are registered, or that is how their parents vote; many cast their ballot based on endorsements (union members based on who their union endorses...why else would the union endorse them); some vote based on scandals (Mark Foley, macacca, etc.); and millions probably vote based on perception of a candidate (elitist, I could have a beer with him, he thinks he invented the internet, etc.). So, who are we to chastise our fellow citizens.....people who vote based on any of the aforementioned reasons I just gave are just as ignorant as those whom are written about in today's blog entry. That however does not make them any smarter or dumber than any one of us who happen to follow politics.....we can get it just as wrong as them, and we all also have preconceived notions about each of the candidates. When was the last time our blogging host said ANYTHING positive about ANY Republican?
Posted 09:39 AM, 05/22/2008
syj
when you tell the truth you get criticized so I assume Polman will get a lot of flak for this. Many American voters are dumb and that explains a lot about the incompetent politicians we have on all levels. While many will spin this post as anti-GOP and pro Obama the fact of the matter is that this type of ignorance helps politicians on both sides in local, state and congressional elections. This is why its a miracle that Nutter was able to get elected when he ran a campaign that talked about adult issues. He ran against 3 people who ran typical Philly campaigns that tried to get out the ignorant vote last May and that likely worked to his advantage. There was so much panderiing out there that his rivals split the ignorant vote up and left him in 1st place. BTW, voting on a single issue, especially when that issue isnt relevant in a particular election, is stupid plain and simple. I dont care if you're a democrat or a republicant it's stupid. When people like those in the focus group represent a huge chunk of the voter turnout its no wonder we have such an ineffective government. The funny part is that the folks who want to defend ignorant voters dont have the sense to understand that the politicians pandering for their votes think they are stupid and thus taylor their message to appeal to those voters.
Posted 09:49 AM, 05/22/2008
yobill626
There does seem to be a portion of the electorate that seems to embrace their political ignorance as a badge of honor. Its one thing to be dumb --- lacking intelligence, but when you talk to some of these nitwits who can recount the smallest detail about their favorite sports team, you have to get angry. Its OK with me if you are happy & carefree in your ignorance, but when you take that ignorance with you & go into a voting booth, that's when it affects the rest of us. You need to pass a test in order to drive a car, why not to vote as well?
Posted 10:15 AM, 05/22/2008
Fredclaims
Yo Tom: When is the last time a Republican DID anything positive?
Posted 10:26 AM, 05/22/2008
Markus ur Alias
Most of this is because of the GOP's successful viral e-mail campaign. I have NO idea why the dems can't do this. Middlenamehussein, you ARE a dumb hick.
Comment removed.
Posted 10:33 AM, 05/22/2008
Rich LeBlanc
I actually (not sarcastically) agree with yobill626 too. I think anyone who wants to vote should have to pass the same test that immigrants have to pass in order to become citizens. I bet 85% of the native-born citizens could not pass. That would be the end of self-made morons electing one of their own as President, or anything else above the level of dog catcher.
Posted 10:49 AM, 05/22/2008
anonymous
Pass a test? Sorry but that is completely contrary to the democratic process. What is needed is public shaming of those who don't bother to take at least some time to educate themselves. There are plenty of uneducated people in this country who actually do take the time to learn about the candidates and follow the elections. Sadly, in this country, we do coddle those take pride in their ignorance and heap abuse on those "latte-sippers" who want to be informed. We have it backwards. That is the root of the problem.
Posted 11:00 AM, 05/22/2008
t_dmanns
Tom, there are single issue voters out there, however they are at least informed about their single issue. A pro-life voter can tell you which candidate is pro-life. Ignorance is another issue. If the religous belief of a candidate is important to you, find out what the candidate actually believes. Bush has been elected twice, partly because of peoples willingness to believe false rumors about his opponents.
Posted 11:01 AM, 05/22/2008
chris duckworth
Dick Polman wrote: "in factual-reality world, this Christian was sworn in on a Bible." This is incorrect. In reality, no member of Congress is sworn in on any religious book. That is not part of the swearing in ceremony. Members of Congress are sworn in en masse by raising their right hand and reciting an oath, or pledge. The photos you see of members of Congress with the Speaker or the President of the Senate, along with their family Bible and family members, is just a photo-op.
Posted 11:41 AM, 05/22/2008
davec
While misinformed voters, single-issue voters, etc. make up a huge percentage of the electorate in any election, I actaully think that in this case, it will work towards Obama's favor. For all the votes Obama will lose because people think he's a Muslim, or Anti-American, or an elitist, or whatever other incorrect and superficial reason, he will more than make up for them with the votes from people that know nothing about him except he isn't an old white guy like the previous 43 presidnets were. So as irritating as it must be for Obama to have so much of your personal life so accessible yet egregiously misconstrued, I don't think that will cost him the election should he lose.
Posted 12:01 PM, 05/22/2008
JimR
You may be a single issue voter but you still need to be aware of the bigger picture. Yobill is on to it. There are a lot of people who wear their ignorance as a badge of honor. They can give you sports stats but don't know what's going on in congress. Government is work - knowing it and living it. We just don't seem to place a great weight on being educated about anything. I was out of the country part of last week and was surprised at how much middle and lower class people had going in their local politics. They had the need to know. Folks here seem to be amazed at what THEIR candidates do a year or two into the term. It's because they had no idea what THEIR candidate was all about. The late William Buckley (that elitist!) railed against the ignorant voter for a long time. The fact that smear campaigns work is testament to the ignorance of voters and the Internet has given us the ability to spread the stupidity. (Legal)Immigrants are required to pass a test to become citizens in the U.S. I'd love to see how many people born and raised here could pass the same test.
Posted 12:06 PM, 05/22/2008
JimR
BTW, I've posted on this site for a couple of years. What's with comments completely evaporating or showing up hours later? I don't use bad language or racist insults but some stuff never appears. Any regulars having similar problems?
Posted 12:09 PM, 05/22/2008
p-diddy
Yes, there are masses of willfully ignorant people out there. Like many others on the board, I've vented about this in the past and probably will again before the elections are over in November. The thing is, people who are willfully ignorant are not necessarily stupid. For example, take the first poster on this thread, who refers to Obama as "Baraq Hussein Obama". This poster almost certainly knows that Obama is not a Muslim, yet pretends not to know in order to help fuel ignorance. Likewise, politicians court ignorance when ignorance helps to achieve their goals. How many times did the Bush administration and its supporters connect Iraq to the 9/11 bombings? I still meet people who think Saddam Hussein was involved in 9/11. Sometimes it is difficult to distinguish between the politically calculating and the ignorant. Although I agree with Polman's column, I think he fails to acknowledge both the role of the media and government officials. Instead of indulging our ignorance and prejudices (McNews, entertainment news, politicians drinking shots) they ought to challenge our ignorance and prejudices. That's what real leadership is.
Posted 01:00 PM, 05/22/2008
what is truth?
The beauty of democracy is any moron not only can vote, but also can be elected President. So go ahead and revel in your ignorance - just don't complain about what happens when you get what you voted for.
Posted 01:34 PM, 05/22/2008
tjc
Great column.
Posted 01:46 PM, 05/22/2008
marat
None of this is new. H.L. Mencken, back in the 1920s, excoriated the American electorate as small-minded, bigoted, and materialistic, as well as plain selfish when it came to large issues. I think Dick's initial point, however, is well-taken. The nitwits enjoy attacking anyone who's smarter, or better-educated, as 'elite' (this is the least of the verbal assaults they put out), but if someone has the effrontery to in any way raise questions about their ignorance, then be prepared for a fight. They're stupid, and no one's going to take away their right to be stupid. Education? We don't need no education!
Posted 01:47 PM, 05/22/2008
marat
None of this is new. H.L. Mencken, back in the 1920s, excoriated the American electorate as small-minded, bigoted, and materialistic, as well as plain selfish when it came to large issues. I think Dick's initial point, however, is well-taken. The nitwits enjoy attacking anyone who's smarter, or better-educated, as 'elite' (this is the least of the verbal assaults they put out), but if someone has the effrontery to in any way raise questions about their ignorance, then be prepared for a fight. They're stupid, and no one's going to take away their right to be stupid. Education? We don't need no education!
Posted 01:49 PM, 05/22/2008
JeffA
Just to add to the conversation, I know plenty of people who are well-educated who take no time to follow or get involved in politics..and still vote. There are many root causes for this disinterest, one of which is our nation has been a war-free zone (except Pearl Harbor) and has endured great prosperity for over a century. People will pay attention when they have an interest to do so...like not losing their liberty or oil costing $135. Ignorance is the friend of the powerful. Both parties and their corporate banker friends would prefer we all pay homage to the bread & circus that is sports & television so they can continue to consolidate wealth and power into the hands of the few.
Posted 01:52 PM, 05/22/2008
pagoda
I'm still waiting for the media to properly address the fact that Cindy McCain stole prescription medications from her charity org. to feed a dangerous habit, asked an employee to lie about it on an adoption form, then had her husband make a deal with the DOJ so she could walk. She likes to be a recovering addict, when in reality she should be a felon who stole drugs from the less fortunate. Wonder if those folks in Virginia knew that.
Posted 01:59 PM, 05/22/2008
Wally
Although it is a fact that the past two presidential elections were stolen / fixed / rigged...we still have to attempt to finally elect someone with competence and good judgement. The right-wing folks and media have done a great job of both giving McBush a free pass so far...and spreading the myths about Obama. The morons who still believe Obama is muslim or un-american need to just wake up for a few moments and become conscious. The Democrats need to confront these myths and make it a main issue and beat it into their heads.
Posted 02:04 PM, 05/22/2008
yobill626
JimR --- Your screen name has been singled out (like mine) either because of something you wrote or someone's complaint of what you wrote, justified or not. It could be one or multiple incidents. Posts under flagged names are routed for approval & then posted when cleared. The new "Report Abuse" key helps them further catch these things. Like any organization, I'm sure there are delays or screwups, but I've always eventually seen my posts. I'm sure my being flagged is more deserved than yours, but this whole process attempts to keep everyone playing nice --- a good thing. Before the recent site change, had you read "Attytood"? Those folks were crazy sometimes.
Posted 02:04 PM, 05/22/2008
CB
Hey Wally: Let's see Obama was born with a Muslim father and a non religious mother, and later converted to Christianity and practiced it for 20+ years through the radical and rasist Rev. Wright. With all those questioning voters out there it would probably be better if he had stayed Muslim.
Posted 02:16 PM, 05/22/2008
bird11
Wally - the last two elections were stolen/fixed/rigged ?? If you truly believe that why bother voting since Mr. Big or the Boogie Man or whoever stole/fixed/rigged the last two elections will certainly do it again. And why does a lack of interest in politics make a person an idiot? I can speak from personal experience that following the Phillies and the Flyers the last few weeks sure trump watching Hillary win West Virginia or Obama steal/fix/rig Indiana. It is time to make the distiction between following "politics" and being informed about your government. I'm sure the politicians of the Democratic Party would prefer to have these 12 undecideds discussed in the article read the Daily News every day - guess with reporting like Dick Polman's we know how they would vote. The most uneducated voter knows he is being screwed no matter what the outcome or as Bob Dylan said "You don't need a weatherman to know which way the wind blows"
Posted 02:20 PM, 05/22/2008
John Brumfield
Are you sure Melinda didn't lift those remarks verbatim from one of George W.'s press conferences? And to MiddleNameHussein at 9:04 a.m., Yeah, sounds like you have a lot of geniuses voting there at "your poling place".
Posted 02:21 PM, 05/22/2008
pagoda
CB- Nice use of those Republican talking points, (radical and rasist)
Posted 03:02 PM, 05/22/2008
LeChance
I'm a little sick and tired of hearing complaints about the "elite liberal media" every time a story is printed about voter ignorance. Comments like the ones made by this focus group are discouraging to everyone who takes the time to know something about the people who are running for the most important job in the country. It's not elitest to expect a voter to know that a man who has received an enormous amount of coverage in the media for 4 years now is NOT MUSLIM. Polman is not saying "vote for Obama or you are stupid." He is saying that everyone has easy access to information on these people, and it does not take much time or effort to obtain it. Do you think it would be fair if Obama supporters started focusing on John McCain's health? "Don't vote for McCain because his cancer could come back, and he's old and senile." The fact is that McCain is in very good health for his age so that would be a disingenuous attack. People who are repeatedly mentioning Obama's middle name obviously don't bring much else to the argument. I wonder how Muslims in this country feel about a Christian candidate being vilified because his name sounds Muslim.
Posted 03:06 PM, 05/22/2008
jwad56
How do you all know he isn't a muslim? Just cause he says so? I just don't believe anything he says cause he is just such an obvious liar.
Posted 03:08 PM, 05/22/2008
Rauol Duke
FOR THE POEPLE WHO CARE Instead of vent about these ignorant morons, go out there a engage them challenge their beliefs. Do not be afraid to speak about politics and religion in the public place. What is the worst that can happen? Are you afraid somebody going to punch you in the mouth? Isn't your community and country worth it? This is a dialogue which most happen. It is a dialogue which the powers do not want us to have. The thing they fear most is an enlighten electorate so take among yourselves and SPEAK TRUTH TO POWER.
Posted 03:10 PM, 05/22/2008
SteveMG
Just don't call them bitter.
Posted 03:13 PM, 05/22/2008
RG
Good point jwad, how do we know Bush isn't a Muslim? He's such an obvious liar.
Posted 03:17 PM, 05/22/2008
jwad56
Well I guess it's only obvious to the people who are listening to what he says instead of those who are in rapture.
Posted 03:31 PM, 05/22/2008
CB
pagoda: The truth hurts, live with it.
Posted 03:42 PM, 05/22/2008
RG
Another good point, jwad. The people cited in this post have clearly been listening to Obama's every word.
Posted 03:47 PM, 05/22/2008
Timmy
Maybe we should have let Virginia go during the Civil War :b In all seriousness, the willful ignorance of the American public in all levels is scary. It is no surprise that the more educated you are, the more liberal you become. I think this has a lot to do with the pride in ignorance that we find throughout the country. God forbid you agree with us commies from the Northeast and West Coast!
Posted 03:57 PM, 05/22/2008
LeChance
jwad56 - because I read newspapers, I surf the web, and I watch the news on TV. I agree that you shouldn't take a politician's word for it about anything, if that's what you were trying to say. That's exactly my point. Just like I won't judge McCain based on false attack ads aimed at him either. I'm going to know as much as possible about both of these candidates and then vote for the best one. It's not unreasonable to expect this of everyone.
Posted 03:57 PM, 05/22/2008
jwad56
It is kind of curious how stating the truth has become a republican talking point.
Posted 04:01 PM, 05/22/2008
bird11
I'll try it again and if this never shows up I'll know I did something wrong. Wally is you truly believe the last two elections were stolen/rigged why would you possibly have any interest in this election. Don't you think the mysterious Mr Big or the Boogie man or those evil Republicans won't just ignore the results and appoint whoever they want? If they did it twice why wouldn't they do it three times. Actually sounds more like a sore loser whining then anything else. And why is everyone not glued to the primaries an idiot. The election is over 5 months away - do you really need that much time to decide between two candidates that will probably have less than a dozen differences in how they intend to govern? Maybe Democrats in this area should be slightly more informed - they actually had a primary to vote in - and a chance to decide between two candidates with even less difference then the candidates will have in November. I'll be honest I spent April and May following the Phillies and Flyers. Try it! It is much more entertaining then following Hillary pull out West Virginia or Obama rig/steal/fix Indiana's primary. It doesn't take 24 hours 7 days a week to figure out the delegate count. My suspicion is the real point of Polman's article is that everyone should read his opinion and follow it - read Polman and you will know that someone with the name Barack Hussein Obama is not Muslim - it isn't a crime to not care about an election - all deference to the PC crowd but certain names just sound Muslim, Hindu, or Catholic - how many people assume the name McCain is Catholic? It isn't like the 12 people sited in this survey voted in the primary and I doubt they will vote in November.
Posted 04:01 PM, 05/22/2008
bird11
I'll try it again and if this never shows up I'll know I did something wrong. Wally is you truly believe the last two elections were stolen/rigged why would you possibly have any interest in this election. Don't you think the mysterious Mr Big or the Boogie man or those evil Republicans won't just ignore the results and appoint whoever they want? If they did it twice why wouldn't they do it three times. Actually sounds more like a sore loser whining then anything else. And why is everyone not glued to the primaries an idiot. The election is over 5 months away - do you really need that much time to decide between two candidates that will probably have less than a dozen differences in how they intend to govern? Maybe Democrats in this area should be slightly more informed - they actually had a primary to vote in - and a chance to decide between two candidates with even less difference then the candidates will have in November. I'll be honest I spent April and May following the Phillies and Flyers. Try it! It is much more entertaining then following Hillary pull out West Virginia or Obama rig/steal/fix Indiana's primary. It doesn't take 24 hours 7 days a week to figure out the delegate count. My suspicion is the real point of Polman's article is that everyone should read his opinion and follow it - read Polman and you will know that someone with the name Barack Hussein Obama is not Muslim - it isn't a crime to not care about an election - all deference to the PC crowd but certain names just sound Muslim, Hindu, or Catholic - how many people assume the name McCain is Catholic? It isn't like the 12 people sited in this survey voted in the primary and I doubt they will vote in November.
Posted 04:03 PM, 05/22/2008
bird11
and now of course it post twice immediately.
Posted 04:03 PM, 05/22/2008
JimR
Timmy, The educated TEND to be more liberal than not, but you have to go no further than some of the regulars on this blog to see that this frequently is not the case. There's a number of conservatives on here who are very well educated AND heartfelt conservatives. Relative to the topic, I'd rather see these folks getting more say in the election process. There's an awful lot of really intelligent give and take here. Some folks really know their stuff.
Posted 04:19 PM, 05/22/2008
USA#1
I think it was a good article. People need to spend some time trying to get the facts about who is running for president. Of course we all have biases, which will most likely determine who we vote for but to be totally ignorant about a candidate is not living up to your responsibilities as a citizen. Some people will only care if the candidate is a Dem or a Repub. Since both parties are basically bought and paid for by the lobbyists that should not always be the deciding factor. The parties want it that way though, just because they say they are pro choice or anti abortion doesn’t mean they really are, they are just going after the single issue voters and it seems to work. The last thing the two party system wants are educated voters, they want one issue voters who don’t want to see past the one issue that they feel is important to them. The new word this year seems to be ‘elitist’ which shows how narrow minded people are when you have one multi millionaire claiming someone else is an elitist when neither one of them gives a crap about the average person. They are just saying what they have been told to say to get the votes. What cracks me up is when you have news people who are chauffeured to and from work telling us that this person or that person is an elitist. They are just playing to their target audience and people end up buying what they are saying. The Main Stream Media is another joke, ABC, CBS, CNN, FOX, MSNBC, NBC and all the news papers with large circulations are all Main Stream Media but yet certain ones in this group call each other ‘part of the MSM’. Unfortunately there are a lot of people who let people with their own agenda form their opinions on whom they vote for. Some of it is because some people are lazy but I believe most of it has to do with our own biases based on how we have been brought up and our experiences in life.
Posted 04:32 PM, 05/22/2008
LeChance
bird11 - maybe these 12 people won't vote in November, but they represent a substantial percentage of the voters who will. Even if it is 5 to 10 percent, that is enough to swing an election. It's not just about religion either. People who are spreading this Muslim rumor are trying to take advantage of the fear many people have of the Muslim faith after the 9/11 attacks. They are trying to associate Obama with terrorism. They are smart enough to know that if you say "Hussein" enough times it will resonate with less-informed voters who don't take the time to look into the matter. It is a bigger problem than you are making it out to be and it deserves to be addressed. There is absolutely nothing wrong with disliking Obama if you disagree with his ideas, but the more we have to talk about rumors like this, the less time we are spending on legitimate debate.
Posted 04:33 PM, 05/22/2008
bird11
Timmy and JimR, I need to disagree. I would imagine the education level of Republicans in the Northeast greatly exceeds that of Democrats. You are falling into stereotyping all Republicans as red neck hillbillies. I live in the predominately Democratic city of Philadelphia - do you really think the average democratic voter in Philadelphia is a Rhodes Scholar? I imagine the average Republican in Philly has a much higher education level than the average Democrat - and education level doesn't mean you are smarter. It is comments like yours that lead people to the "elitist" stereotype/label "I'm sooooo smart and I'm liberal so if you disagree your an idiot". Polman's post reflects this bias and most of the post reinforce it - just because someone is not interested doesn't mean they are not intelligent. How many people don't have the time or inclination to follow every nuance of the campaigns because they are working and raising a family? Most people have either made their decision - I doubt the "liberal" Timmy has voted Republican that often and certainly will not in November regardless of what McCain says - or will make a decision closer to the election. There are certainly uninformed voters out there who will vote in November. As a McCain supporter, I just hope the number of uninformed McCain voters at least balances out the number of uninformed Obama or Clinton voters.
Posted 05:01 PM, 05/22/2008
bird11
LeChance, I have no problem with a standard that forcing people to be informed to vote but we both know it will never happen - we have problems with laws that actually force people to prove they are who they say they are when they go to vote. Honestly I think the number of uninformed voters is much higher than 10% (in the 90+% for lesser local elections) but those uninformed voters aren't all for or against one candidate - how many people do you think know the amount of no-bid Federal contracts Halliburton had in Kosovo, Bosnia, Somalia, etc under Clinton? Democracy is not a very good way to arrive at sound decisions - even in the most enlightened of times the majority is far to often wrong. That said I still prefer it to any form of government that excludes me from the decision process. Trust me somewhere down the line McCain will be the Manchurian Candidate brainwashed during his POW years in Vietnam. I guess at that point we'll need to decide it we want Obama's Sharia Law or McCain's Socialism LOL.
Posted 05:20 PM, 05/22/2008
amg
The debate over who is smarter is silly. Just like saying only Dems are "elitists" is silly. Both parties are filled with the full spectrum from genius to lobotomized drool factory. Just as each party has plenty of elitists in it's ranks. This whole argument is a waste of time. I wish Polman would have spent his time today talking about the fact that in the exit polls of KY 30% of "working class white Democratic voters" said they would vote for McCain if Obama is the nominee and how it's irrelevant since 32% of the SAME EXACT GROUP voted for Bush and not Kerry. Last time I checked, Kerry is a white Catholic guy. Or maybe his post could have focused on the fact that Obama got 52% of that same demographic in Oregon. These are more useful things to learn then whether some focus still thinks Obama is a Muslim. The "liberal" media keeps pushing this "blue collar white voter" thing while ignoring the fact that it wasn't an issue in Iowa, Wisconsin or even Ohio (which he lost but did better then expected in that group). These are the things those of us that follow politics need to know. We already know the ignorance level of the average citizen is pretty high.
Posted 05:32 PM, 05/22/2008
deee
I completely agree that our culture supports and promotes ignorance. It is not "cool" to be informed or well read. It is not unlike high school girls who act stupid so the boys will like them. Unfortunately, this dumbing down of the American citizen is not lost on the rest of the world. Other countries' citizens take their voting privileges very seriously, even risking death to secure them. Here the ignorant masses love to say that it is their right NOT to vote! Americans, as competitive as we are, do not rally to the notion of becoming the world's best and brightest. Or is it that we are so ignorant, we actually believe we are?
Posted 06:59 PM, 05/22/2008
johngilb
I agree with RDuke - you have to call these ignorant muslim emailers out. I am a white resident of NE Philadelphia, and I recently was forwarded one of these muslim emails by a neighbor with the admonishment to "pass it on." I didn't pass it on - rather, I responded to his entire list of 20 recipients that the muslim allegation was a load of hogwash, and I directed them all to Snopes.com (http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/muslim.asp) where they could read all about it. So here's the big finale - if you get one of these emails, don't just delete it - respond to every recipient with the snopes link. Don't worry that the sender won't associate with you any more - while my neighbor doesn't send me any more emails, he is still friendly! I personally feel that these muslim emails are code for "don't vote for a black." If folks don't want to vote for Obama because he is black or for any other bona-fide reason, that is their right, but I don't want anyone voting against him for a BS non-reason. By the way, the muslim email also alleged (without proof) that Obama's campaign contributions are coming from the Middle East. Regular bloggers here know that this is not the case - his money comes from Tom in Wilmington!
Posted 08:31 PM, 05/22/2008
hannibal64
In response to Tom from Wilmington, that type of thinking is the reason this country is in the shape it is in today, people voting for the wrong reasons or because they agree with the candidate on one issue. Also what has any republican done lately for anyone to speak good of them. They are destroying this country and getting rich in the process. Every republican president as of the last 30 years has been a joke, yes I'm talking about reagan too the only president worst than him is bush. Learn about your candidate and make a educated choice in the voting booth. Not who you think is going to set back history!!!!
Posted 08:38 PM, 05/22/2008
noel711
All this talk about our 'democracy' is bogus. The USA is a republic, not a democracy. That is why we have representational government, that is why we vote for delegates. There is no direct popular vote. The founders did not want this country ruled by the 'ignorant rabble,' and thus built in the safety valve of representation. All things considered, the notion of the 'sanctity of the vote' is laughable. Do we really want to say that all things are equal in the voting booth? Do we want to suffer another ignorant boob in the White House because the masses want a president with whom they can drink a beer? This may sound 'elitist,' but perhaps we need to admit that the great public education system has failed to educate the public. Perhaps there needs to be some kind of accountability by the citizenry before they can vote.
Posted 08:42 PM, 05/22/2008
hannibal64
It's people like bird11 that have us paying $4.00 a gallon for gas. Totally brainwashed by the republican smog machine. Do you really think mccain will be any good for this country, it will be the same old crap for the next four years. Look inside yourself and try and figure out why you support the candidates and the party you do. (good old boy network)
Posted 09:10 PM, 05/22/2008
JimR
bird11, Slow down. I was arguing opposite Timmy's point. I am a lifelong student and I've been in and around a number of colleges. I've found by my experience that the more educated folks TENDED (numerically) to be more liberal. I'm not making a case for it. I visit this site regularly and know that some conservative bloggers really come prepared. We disagree often but they come ready for battle. I get frustrated with the fact that we send hundreds of thousands of our armed forces to achieve and protect a right that we, in the U.S., either use in ignorance or don't use at all.
Posted 10:07 PM, 05/22/2008
JDDavid
I read this post many hours ago and have been thinking about it all day. More than any other issue I worry about the willful ignorance of a significant portion of the populace--because it affects every other issue. When Benjamin Franklin said we had been given a republic "if you can keep it," he must have envisioned the possibility of an electorate too uninformed or apathetic to preserve it. I know that ignorant people exist all over the globe, but too many Americans do seem to be proud of it -- a Larry the cable guy phenomenon. This has nothing to do with partisan politics, and those who try to frame it as such miss the broader and more important point. Thank you, Dick, for a forthright and courageous post.
Posted 12:48 AM, 05/23/2008
tom - wilmington, de
What bugged me most about this post was the classification, made in the second paragraph, that the people who do not follow politics are "stupid". For all the back and forth, that is an elitist statement, as if to say those who follow politics are somehow better or smarter than those who do not. It is a choice, and intelligence has nothing to do with it. Single issue voters do know something about a candidates stance on their issue, but they are usually either ignorant or apathetic to the candidates other positions. Voters who follow others like lemmings and cast their vote based on what their mentor, leader, friend, family believe are also ignorant...but not necessarily stupid. A lot of people feel intimidated about politics...because they may not understand it. Also, recall the statements that "all politics is local" and "people usually vote their pocketbook", which mean that most people do not vote based on what a candidate may believe about ANWR, but do vote based on NIMBY (Not In My BackYard). Anyway, "ignorance is bliss", and all citizens get to vote. If we did have a test (remember the grandfather clause), it would probably get challenged by the ACLU as being discriminatory. After all, didn't an appellate court just rule that our paper currency discriminates against the blind?
Posted 07:26 AM, 05/23/2008
JimR
Tom, all of us political junkies are more intelligent, aren't we? Yobill, I suspected that I was a target somewhere. Thaks for the response....and yes, I have seen "ATTYTOOD" I think some of the posters there are exactly what THIS topic was all about
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Posted 09:42 AM, 05/23/2008
amg
Xi, what's your point exactly? Are you insisting that since Obama's father was a Muslim that makes Barack a Muslim as well? Or that because the Koran says his mother's religious affiliation is irrelevant then he's a Muslim? Or are you arguing that the combination of the two equally stupid statements makes him a Muslim despite his choice to follow Christianity? When all of us are born decisions are made for us in regards to the religion we follow but that doesn't mean we are always going to follow that religion ourselves as we grow and have the ability to choose. My mother was Baptist and my father Catholic. I was baptized Catholic but as I got older I was allowed to choose. I attended services in both churches for many years before, as a pre-teen, deciding I felt more comfortable in the Catholic church. I didn't receive First Holy Communion until the 6th grade (Catholic children receive it in 2nd grade) when I made the choice to do so. I identify myself as Catholic because that's the choice I made. Second, millions of people convert religions all the time worldwide. Once converted they are then part of that religion. They've made a decision to believe a certain way. Their birth is meaningless once a conscious decision has been made to believe in a certain faith. Third, who gives you, Josh, Melinda, the "noted scholar and academician Edward Luttwak" or anyone else the right to say that Barack ins't a Christian and essentially call the man a liar? Oh, right, I forgot, your hatred and ignorance give you the right because allowing the truth to seep in would mean you have to actually use logic, reasoning and intelligence to form an opinion. I'm glad we've cleared that up.
Posted 09:53 AM, 05/23/2008
p-diddy
I think the ignorance about Obama's religion works on a level that even the more enlightened among us may not be willing to acknowledge. Obama is not a Muslim, but what would it matter if he was? Are we equating Islam with terrorism? You've got to remember, there are a billion Muslims out there (and here) who aren't thinking about politics all day. Xi Jah - Yours is exactly the type of ignorance we're talking about.
Posted 10:05 AM, 05/23/2008
p-diddy
Wait a second, I thought Obama was a radical Christian.
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Posted 10:58 AM, 05/23/2008
SteveMG
XJ, in America we have this mushy principle of self determination If ou want to be a Christion instead of a muslim, you can be. If you want to stop being a Christian and become Jewish, you can. In this land of opportunity, we can shakes off the bonds and constraints that we are born with and set our own course and become who we want to become. Just because some guy calls him a muslim doesn't make him one.
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Posted 11:09 AM, 05/23/2008
LJL
Well said, SteveMG. I am firmly convinced the american electorate is principally stooopid. Maybe lazy is a better word. Most citizens will watch a "news" channel, and whatever BS they are fed, they believe, without regard of the motives that may be behind the "news", and certainly without any effort to find the truth, which is usually in the middle. A great example is the "Obama is the most liberal US senator" line, a Faux News channel favorite bloviation. Independent voting analysis of US senate votes shows 36 senators with a more "liberal" (whatever that means) voting record than Obama. His Illinois senate voting record is also centrist. But hey, many dolts in this country still think Saddam was involved in 9/11. Oh well, the old truism is still valid.....You can't fix stupid.
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Posted 11:30 AM, 05/23/2008
p-diddy
Xi Jah - Obama has been attending a Christian church for over 20 years. That's not an opinion, it's a fact. So you're saying that this whole Reverend Wright thing is bogus? Or is Wright now part of the Muslim conspiracy? Come on man, get your propaganda straight. Dweeb.
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Posted 11:52 AM, 05/23/2008
p-diddy
I can see you're quite an "academician".
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Posted 12:32 PM, 05/23/2008
p-diddy
People in Muslim countries are aware that Senator Barack Obama is not a Muslim, and yet he enjoys wide support in those countries. That support has nothing to do with Mr. Obama's being full, half, or non-Muslim; it is rooted in the fact that he promises to change the kind of policies that have led to such a negative view of America by people in other countries, both Muslims and members of other faith communities. Zaid Shakir Berkeley, Calif., May 12, 2008 The writer is a professor of Arabic and Islamic studies at the Zaytuna Institute.
Posted 12:38 PM, 05/23/2008
RG
Xi Jah is truly brilliant. in another thread he tried to pass this group off as democrats when they are clearly labeled independants. Also note how he keeps calling Josh a muslim. Where did he get that from? doesn't say it in the article. He misread Josh's quote and took it as a description. Finally, he misses the whole gist of luttwaks article, not that obama is truly a muslim, but that other fundamentalists may consider him an apostate.
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Posted 01:16 PM, 05/23/2008
RG
Umm, why would you randomly specualte that only Josh is both an African American and a Muslim and repeat that on here and attytood? Here's your quote from above, doesn't sound like speculation: "Or maybe Josh, particularly as a Muslim". Its clear that you either misread his quote (Here's Josh on Obama: "He's representing a minority in more than one case. He is African American and he is Muslim.") or intentionally misrepresented it. You also claimed on attytood they were Dems , they are independants. Stop spinning and give up your quest, you failed miserably.
Posted 02:03 PM, 05/23/2008
tom - wilmington, de
Personally I believe all this Muslim talk is a complete waste of air. All that exhaling being done is just emitting more CO2 into the air, thereby contributing to global warming/climate change. So please, enough on the Muslim talk. Obama has stated he is not a Muslim, so he is not. If you believe being Muslim is simply a religious belief and not an ethnicity, then only Obama has the right and moral authority to tout his beliefs. If you believe being Muslim is more than a religion, then saying you are no longer Muslim would be like saying you are no longer Italian or Irish. I take being Muslim as a religious belief, so it can be disavowed just as converting from Catholicism to Judaism. More devout people may differ from that opinion, as is their right. Obama is 50% African-American, 50% Caucasian (yet he is always spoken of as being AA), and 100% Christian with Muslim heritage. End of story.
Posted 03:53 PM, 05/23/2008
James TL
ok..... one more time(hopefully).... Barack Obama is NOT a Muslim! He might be considered one by Muslim extremists but to anyone else he is a Christian. I'm sick of worying about what extremists think, be they Muslims, Christians or neocons.
Posted 04:34 PM, 05/23/2008
amg
Xi, I wasn't disrespecting Muslims, I was disrespecting you. I'm not surprised you missed that point. Tom, a post that I completely agree with. I couldn't have said it better myself.
Posted 08:56 PM, 05/23/2008
p-diddy
Oh man, we've descended into insanity. Tom, this is not a matter opinion. Being Muslim is not an ethnicity any more than being a Christian is an ethnicity. Are you telling me that Albanian, Nigerian and Chinese Muslims share an ethnicity? I know a Russian Muslim with a thoroughly Russian last name! If my great grandfather was a Muslim, does that make me one? Before I get sucked into this insanity any further, I'm going to enjoy the long weekend.
Posted 09:52 PM, 05/23/2008
JimR
p-d... Before you enjoy the weekend - re-read Tom's post!
Posted 08:28 AM, 05/26/2008
dcguy
Some of these people aren't willfully ignorant at all. They know full well Obama isn't a Muslim but use it to hide their racism as the Muslim boogeyman accusation is a socially acceptable comment.
Posted 01:00 PM, 05/26/2008
BrianMT
Being a single-issue voter is one thing -- repeating hearsay as fact because you refuse to crack open a book is quite another. And that's ignoring for a moment that vague suspicions about someone's religion is a rather lousy reason to vote for a candidate anyway. Polman is spot on -- it's consistently open season on anybody well-spoken and nuanced in their positions ("liberal elitists"), but it's this monstrous taboo look askance at anyone who might be considered "jes plain folks," regardless of the damage they're doing. I've worked at an iron foundry, drink my coffee black, and was the first person in my family to graduate from college. But I've had it with the so-called "common man" and those who would defend him as if he's some sort of oracle.
Posted 02:50 PM, 05/26/2008
mizonglohong
There is a huge difference between being ignorant and willfully racist. Ignorant means you don't know better. Racist means you hate because of skin color, etc. I think we should call it what it is and stop suparcoating and pampering those who choose to hate because someone looks different than them. I honestly believe that people who accept and even celebrate diversity are the majority, and those who don't are scared which leaves them open to suppestion to believe the worst of people different from themselves. Throughout history, evil people have exploited those fears to further their agendas: Salem witch trials, KKK, Nazism, etc. As a person whose eyes have been opened wide from history, I feel it is my moral responsibility to keep my nose to the grindstone, and make the ignorant aware, but the willfully racist? I don't know how to begin to soften their hearts. I really wish I knew.
Posted 11:34 PM, 05/26/2008
Buddha
Here's the thing. The Left tends to dismiss a lot of people in this country. "We know what's best for you," they seem to say. That's the problem that underlies Obama's comments about "bitter" people who "cling" to guns and religion. Those comments reflect a definite disconnect from many people in this country. At the same time, the Right has this tendency to latch onto certain themes and beat them to death, whether or not they are true. He's a Muslim!!! Heck, his middle name is Hussein!!! He's unpatriotic!!! Doesn't swear on the Bible or say the Pledge!!! Even if those claims are easily debunked, the Right tends to latch onto them, passing them along to more impressionable parties, and doesn't do anything to debunk them even when asked directly (this even applies to Clinton - Obama's not a Muslim "as far as I know.") Rather than attacking Obama on the merits (which, as I pointed out initially, provides a substantial opportunity), we end up having people yell "his middle name is Hussein!", "he's a Muslim!", rather than trying to have a serious discourse. I have many problems with Obama, but I'm embarassed to be on the same side as people who simply chant "BHO, BHO, BHO" and "Muslim" when asked about him. And even worse, as this article points out, there isn't any attempt to remove these misconceptions so that we can have a real conversation on the merits of the various candidates.
Posted 06:46 PM, 05/27/2008
p-diddy
Jim R - I think you need to reread Tom's last post. He was framing this debate as a matter of opinion. It isn't a matter of opinion. Islam is not an ethnicity or something that is passed by genes, it is a belief system.
Posted 09:27 AM, 05/28/2008
JimR
P-diddy, I agree with you. I think Tom was making the argument that the entire thing was absurd - that being a Muslin is not an ethnic identity.
Posted 12:04 PM, 05/28/2008
p-diddy
The point is not whether you agree or disagree with someone's opinion, the point is whether this is a factual issue or a matter of opinion. It is not a matter of opinion, it is a factual matter. So you don't "take being Muslim as a religious belief" - it IS a religious belief. Get it?
Posted 12:06 PM, 05/28/2008
p-diddy
But this whole issue was raised in the first place to slander both Obama and Islam. People talk about it as if it were a blood disease.
Posted 03:15 PM, 05/28/2008
JimR
The whole thing is BS. It was designed to put a better spin on ignorance and bigotry. If you don't like the guy's policy, don't vote for him. But, don't hide behind his religion or his background.
About Dick Polman

Cited by the Columbia Journalism Review as one of the nation's top political reporters, and lauded by the ABC News political website as "one of the finest political journalists of his generation," Dick Polman is a national political columnist at the Philadelphia Inquirer. He is on the full-time faculty at the University of Pennsylvania, as "writer in residence." Dick has been a frequent guest on C-Span, MSNBC, CNN, NPR and the BBC. He covered the 1992, 1996, 2000, and 2004 presidential campaigns.

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