"Adventures in fantasyland"
The GOP cry of "Repeal" is unrealistic and politically dumb
"Adventures in fantasyland"
Dick Polman, Inquirer National Political Columnist
Having lost their grand crusade to deny Americans the same health care security that is standard practice everywhere else in the western democratic world, the Republicans and their allies can't seem to agree what to do next.
One natural impulse is to burrow even deeper into dreamworld. For instance, a vocal faction - which includes Mitt Romney, John McCain, Jim DeMint, Bill Kristol, and the tea partiers - is already hoisting the banner of Repeal, insisting that Congress rise up and wipe the new law off the books. But another faction - which includes ex-Bush speechwriter David Frum, and the U.S. Chamber of Commerce - insists that any repeal effort would be a colossal waste of time.
Romney is perhaps the most vociferous repealer, arguing yesterday on a conservative blog that the health reform needs to be reversed because President Obama "has betrayed his path to the nation." (As a 2012 GOP presidential hopeful, Romney needs to be shrill on this issue, lest conservatives notice that Obama's health reforms closely resemble the Massachusetts health reforms that he himself succcessfully championed as governor.) He was joined yesterday by McCain, who, having lost another one to Obama, apparently wants to further extend his streak; on TV, he declared, "We're going to repeal this." And fellow senator Jim "Waterloo" DeMint, having failed along with his colleagues in the quest to "break" Obama, said yesterday that he intends to push for repeal legislation.
I have to believe that these people are not as dumb as they seem, that deep down they are fully aware that the so-called repeal crusade is just raw meat for the dimmest denizens of the conservative base. It's an emotional gimmick to keep the base pumped during the '10 election season, which probably explains why 35 GOP Senate candidates (including Pat Toomey in Pennsylvania) have taken the repeal pledge.
Anyone with a fundamental grasp of math would quickly realize that the talk of repeal is worthless. Until at least January 2013, and quite possibly until January 2017, the guy in the White House would veto any such bill. And for however long Obama serves as president, the Republicans would need 67 Senate votes and 290 House votes in order to override such a veto. Even if the Republicans did manage to elect a president in 2012, it strains credulity to think that the party can achieve a 60-seat Senate supermajority for repeal. No wonder the U.S. Chamber of Commerce president said yesterday of repeal, "We're not going to spend any capital on that."
Ex-Bush speechwriter and conservative blogger David Frum wrote online yesterday, "No illusions, please. This bill will not be repealed." Frum is frequently mocked by many of his brethren because of his habitual attentiveness to empirical reality, and this may be yet another instance. Frum righly scoffs at the repeal strategy ("adventures in fantasyland"), not just because the congressional math is so daunting, but because it fails even as raw-meat politics.
Frum points out that any Republican who votes for repeal would essentially be voting to again permit health insurers to deny coverage on the basis of pre-existing conditions. He warns that any Republican arguing for repeal is essentially arguing "to banish 25 year olds from their parents' insurance coverage." Any Republican pushing for repeal is essentially saying that we should "reopen the 'doughnut hole' and charge seniors more for prescription drugs."
For those reasons alone, Democrats should hope and pray that the GOP talks up repeal between now and November - because it's dumb politics to try to take away people's benefits. Democrats can therefore challenge their pro-repeal opponents: Why do you want to reinstate lifetime caps on health insurance coverage? Why do you want to again allow insurance companies to dump the people who get sick? Why do you want to eliminate the new tax credits for small businesses that provide coverage to their workers?
(The dimmest pro-repeal conservatives will no doubt trumpet the new CNN poll, which shows - on the surface - that 59 percent of Americans oppose the health care reform law, while only 39 percent support it. But spend two seconds on the fine print, and the figures look very different. Thirteen percent of those opposing the law happen to believe that it's not liberal enough - which puts the conservative foes in the minority. And when poll respondents were asked whom they trust most to handle health care - Obama or the Republicans in Congress - they chose Obama, 51 to 39 percent.)
Also, with respect to this repeal issue, Democrats can put the squeeze on those GOP candidates - such as Ohio Senate hopeful Rob Portman - who thus far have declined to take any stance. If the holdouts finally say yes to repeal, Democrats can challenge them with the aformentioned questions. If they say no to repeal, they risk being hammered by the talk-radio teeth-gnashers in their own camp.
Speaking of Rush Limbaugh, he issued a cri de coeur for repeal yesterday. Frum, the conservative blogger, is not surprised; in his words, the GOP's "abject and irreversible defeat" on health care is actually "a huge win for the conservative entertainment industry," which thrives on polarization and fantasy remedies.
Frum writes that, in the aftermath of the health reform defeat, the Limbaugh camp's "listeners and viewers will now be even more enraged, even more frustrated, even more disappointed in everybody except the responsibility-free talkers on television and radio. For them, it's mission accomplished. For the (conservative) cause they purport to represent, it's Waterloo, all right: Ours."
Need I say more?
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Temporarily sick of politics? Read my new freelance piece, a farewell to America's first TV-marketed cultural icon.
Comments (123)
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At this point, the left should count there blessings that conservatives are not really the gun-clinging, militia loving crackpots they believe we are.— jmc
"It's the end of the world as we know it, and I feel fine"— dawkins20d- Comment removed.
- It's true that this is a jackpot for the radio and TV haters like Blimpie and Dreck, but my worry is that they will get their dimbulb lemmings so fired up that we'll have more episodes like the Texas tea bag terrorist flying his plane into government buildings. The downside for the Republicants, as I suspected it might be, is that all the bombast and hatred drives away the independents, and may actually backfire and give the Democrats an advantage in the fall elections. When we see all these people spitting and cursing, it is inevitable that those people become the face of the Republicant party, and rightly so, since people like Boehner and McConnell are encouraging them to behave that way with a wink and a smirk. And who wants to vote for a spittle-spewing, screeching, bloated angry old white man? Time for these people to join Bull Connor, Lester Maddox, George Wallace, and the rest of the old generation of haters in the dustbin of history.— yoda
- "(As a 2012 GOP presidential hopeful, Romney needs to be shrill on this issue, lest conservatives notice that Obama's health reforms closely resemble the Massachusetts health reforms that he himself succcessfully championed as governor.)" And just how is that Massachusetts plan working out for them? Let's see, highest health insurance premiums in the country, double digit increases every year, care beginning to be rationed, the mandate proving to be ineffective as people only buy insurance when they need it, huge deficits, sluggish economic growth and GDP. Yep, this plan, close in resemblance to the Massachusetts plan, will deliver on all its promises just as the Massachusetts plan has done. Great analogy.— tom - wilmington, de
- yoda, the guy who flew his plane into the IRS building was not a tea bag protestor. Perhaps you should go back and re-read his "manifesto", which was full of radical left wing ideology.— tom - wilmington, de
- Those numbers will change as people learn what's actually IN the plan (many don't know) and they pull out the number from the Left who believe it doesn't go nearly far enough. The Dems did a lousy job communicating this.— yobill626
- Mr. Polman and other democrats seem to think that because the healthcare bill passed, the american people are on their side now. Far, far, far from it. Conservatives, liberals and independants were against this bill before and their still against it now. It will not be forgotten at election time in 2010 or 2014. People already know the benefits and costs of this bill and that's why their against it, the cost is too high and most will support repealing it. Telling people they're losing the 'no pre-existing condition' or any other benefit if it's repealed won't change anyones mind.— Phillysub
- I'm still seeing a lot of "Marxist!", "Communist!", "unconstitutional!", "repeal!", "secede!", "bad!", "Armageddon!", "hell no you can't!", "liberal!", but not a whole lot of substantive reasons why a bill to the right even of Richard M. Nixon's recommendations is such a horrible thing. I suspect it's because Barack Obama championed it, and there are segmants of our population that have an irrational hatred for him, because he is intelligent and pragmatic, among other characteristics.— schnail
- Now that we have been forced to pay for their Health Care the Obama nanny State supporters who rioted on South Street can go back to being the productive citizens we all know they would be if we just give them enough of other peoples money. Wanna bet? Yes we Can!— tr88
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- Schnail, we cant afford it. The people who are already paying for everything will have the double pleasure of having increased taxes and reduced health services to pay for one more entitlement that has served us so well the last 40years. CNN Poll. 39% for, 59% against. And that's with the media running cover for all things Obama.— tr88
- Phillysub: This bill is not getting repealed. The numbers the GOP needs to get to in Congress in 2010 just aren't realistic. After Americans start utilizing the Health Care, no way no how is enough Legislators going to vote to take that away. How many Pubs would vote to take away Medicare today?— yobill626
- Its not going to be repealed. This much is true. But watch and see how this thing plays out over the next decade and you'll see why there was so little public support for it.— tjm333126
- Dick is full of himself after the democrats rammed this through by means that would make the polituro proud. He's back to making political predictions.— tr88
- cheese: 59 oppose the plan but of that 59 percent, 13 percent said it doesn't go far enough. Be careful when throwing out those numbers.— HeywoodEm
- Counting chickins before they hatch is a dangerous game, Mr. Dick. Remember when you said the repubs were a permanant minority party from the south?— CD75
- Data from a recent Harris poll: 57 percent of Republicans (32 percent overall) believe that Obama is a Muslim 45 percent of Republicans (25 percent overall) agree with the Birthers in their belief that Obama was "not born in the United States and so is not eligible to be president" 38 percent of Republicans (20 percent overall) say that Obama is "doing many of the things that Hitler did" Scariest of all, 24 percent of Republicans (14 percent overall) say that Obama "may be the Antichrist." The poll, which surveyed 2,230 people right at the height of the health-care reform debate, also clearly shows that education is a barrier to extremism. Respondents without a college education are vastly more likely to believe such claims, while Americans with college degrees or better are less easily duped.— Rabe56
- Watching the hysterical desperation of the GOP is the greatest show in town these days! Alienate - Distort - Fear Monger - it's all they got - it's failed them time and time again, yet they refuse to learn their lesson. Oh well, I love their plan to run for mid-terms on repeal! LOLOL!! Circus time!!!— PicassoArt
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The only thing that has went bankrupt is capitalism on Wall Street. The only thing that can save capitalism when it periodically collapses is the Federal Government. Health care is a wise and prudent investment, that is paid for and well within any measure of affordability. The bill spans ten years and for the numerically challenged republican propaganda artists, that is less than $99 billion per year, paid for by tax increases and spending cuts. The real bankrupting time bomb is the $600 TRILLION per year derivative market for credit default obligations. Ask actual bankrupt businesses like GM and Chrysler, ask the former executives of the wiped out Lehman Bros and Bear Stearns. Or the still insolvent Bank of America, GMAC, AIG or any other entity kept alive by 0% interest rates by the Federal Reserve and tax payer money from the US Government. The big bankruptcies have already happened. Our medical care delivery system is now on firmer footing than 24 hours ago. It is no longer on a unsustainable trajectory, similar to Wall Street, but under rational policy guidance. GOD BLESS AMERICA, AND GOD BLESS PHILADELPHIA, THE CRADLE OF LIBERTY.- From the last blog:) I saw this on another blog and wonder if Jefferson did say all thses things:) "The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not". -- Thomas Jefferson "I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them." -- Thomas Jefferson "My reading of history convinces me that most bad government results from too much government". -- Thomas Jefferson "To compel a man to subsidize with his taxes the propagation of ideas which he disbelieves and abhors is sinful and tyrannical". -- Thomas Jefferson "When we get piled upon one another in large cities, as in Europe, we shall become as corrupt as Europe". -- Thomas Jefferson— NEPhilly
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- When 25-year old adults need to be on Mommy and Daddy's insurance policy...you know this country is in a downspin.— rbpeeple
- Europe was saved from corruption when they chopped the heads off of the kings, the queens, the rich, and shot the tsars. Now, everything is just fine.
- If you are 25 and need to stay on your parents' health insurance, something is drastically wrong with the way you prepared yourself for adult life. Typically, most college graduates are in the working world by the time they are 23 or 24. Most high school graduates that do not go to college are also working. I can understand the need for 25 year olds that happen to still be in college but why should any 25 year old have to sponge off their parents?? I think the only exception to this should be anyone that is physically or mentally impaired.— frankfj
- frankfj - not every 25 year old is healthy or efficiently health-sustaining. There are many circumstances where young adult depend on their parents for car. The 1st that comes to mind are special needs individuals who do not receive social security disability, Medicare or Medicaid or any other subsidy. What is with the Repubs anymore? – such callous and despicable people they’ve become.— PicassoArt
- Ha, Fernando, 59% oppose.— tr88
- Bush tried to change the Social Security system. Democrats railed against it, the public was opposed to it, Bush dropped the plan. Obama tried to change healthcare. Republicans railed against it, the public was opposed to it, Obama rammed it through anyway. Maybe Bush should have rammed Social Security changes through and just said "government of the people and by the people still works for the people". FYI - Obama has yet to sign that executive order promised to Stupak. What a chump.— tom - wilmington, de
- Notice how the republican propaganda now attacks the family unit. Driving a wedge between parent and child, at any age is the underhanded politics of resentment, pitting generation against generation. First they fabricate a non issue of gay marriage when non existed before. Now, sponging children are the enemy, to be wiped from the family books as an unnecessary payroll expense, to made fun of as losers who don't carry their weight. It is none of anybody's business who is on or not on anyone's insurance policy. Keep your nose out of my family, and do not tell me how to treat my children. You can all go to hell when it comes to protecting my family, they come first.
- How many times is the President going to roll out poor little 11-year-old Marcellus Owens & I wonder how many times in the future the President will be in contact with this young man?— NEPhilly
- tom- the public doesn't oppose HCR - they want HCR - and the want HCR WITH a Public Option - which they'll get after the mid-terms - bank on it bub.— PicassoArt
- “For decades the G.O.P. has been the party of fear, ignorance and divisiveness. All you have to do is look around to see what it has done to the country. The greatest economic inequality since the Gilded Age was followed by a near-total collapse of the overall economy. As a country, we have a monumental mess on our hands and still the Republicans have nothing to offer in the way of a remedy except more tax cuts for the rich. This is the party of trickle down and weapons of mass destruction, the party of birth-ers and death-panel lunatics. This is the party that genuflects at the altar of right-wing talk radio, with its insane, nauseating, nonstop commitment to hatred and bigotry.” - Bob Herbert. True – so very, very true. And sad.— PicassoArt
- Mr. Polman, I think it's fantasyland to think that this bill will do anything to lower the costs of healthcare. When I was an economics student, I learned that when demand for a commodity increases, the price usually goes up. Someone explain to me how adding 30 million people to the health rolls will lower the price. I think that the situations in Massachusetts and Tennesee are illustrative of this point, and it would behoove the Republicans to watch the implementation of this boondoogle like hawks and prevent it from becoming a fiscal black hole.— ILikeIke
- Hey PicassoARt, you dope, if you read my entire comment you would have seen that I said that exceptions include physically impaired or mentally impaired people. Before you start wanting a debate, learn how to read. By the way, I am a democrat.— frankfj
- Wow, all of you touting the CNN poll surely got chumped by Polman. I wish I knew how to let anger and ignorance get in the way of fact just like you.— HandNik
- MOCKY: Smell test? The isolated incidents have happened with Barney Frank in the Capitol Bldg., who was wrong about health care because he's gay. And they proved him wrong by slurring him. 3 black congressman were wrong about health care, because they are black. They were called the N-word and 1 was spit on to prove them wrong. One Mexican Rep. was wrong about health care, and they proved it by slurring him too. Stupak was wrong about health care, and they proved it by calling him a baby killer, like George Tiller. Dem Reps. were wrong about health care, and bricks thru their windows proved them wrong. Tiller was wrong about abortion, and they buried him to prove it. Some old guy with Alzheimer's was wrong about health care at a rally, and they proved it by throwing him 2 dollar bills. ........... The message is clear, vote to repeal the bill you were wrong on. Next step is an isolated incident that the congressman will be injured to prove him wrong, maimed to prove him wrong, or buried like Tiller to prove him wrong. And it will be their own fault for being wrong on this bill.— Talvenada
- I wouldn't neither credit nor blame Bush for no action on social security. He didn't have the senate votes even with the republican majority up until 2006. Believe me if he had the votes I believe Bush would have changed social security.— Rabe56
- 59% against until you take away the 13% that think it didn't go far enough. Do you people even read the blog before you spit stupidity out?— jettro
- Polman, dude... you basically just rewrote Frum's article, which, incidentally, I found refreshingly centered and objective, considering I am used to seing sensationalist conservative articles that, for example, shout their titles IN ALL CAPS.— puttinonthefoil
- The world is coming to an end. Flee, flee, flee my friends. Dig deep, quickly. The sky is falling. God himself will strike us all down with thunderbolts. HCR passed. The world is over.....— Tony_From_PA
- Talvenada: I was not there so I don't know what happened. I was sitting in my adirondack chair with a cold beer soaking in the rays on Sunday but I can't help but think that story is just clever stage craft that gets gobbled up the left wing websites and people like you. There was a story out the past summer about a census worker who found dead from hanging with the words " Fed " painted on his chest. This story got some traffic on the far left websites but it turns out the incident was a suicide made to look like some angry tea partiers were the guilty party.— Alvenada
- JETTRO: Fox NEWS put the number at SEVENTY PERCENT AGAINST with all agreeing with Conse 'Pubs, as in not now and not ever!!! Against it is against it, and any reason for Conse 'Pubs to separate is nonsense. That's ONLY Polman's opinion that it doesn't go far enough for 13%.— Talvenada
- I believe the rationale for the claim that costs will be lowered is that by adding so many more people,the bet is that most of the those people will be healthy ones. If they are healthy, they won't be utilizing costs in the system --- thus driving down the overall costs. I don't believe this will turn out to be true, and I certainly don't believe the CBO numbers. Hopefully, if will help in keeping costs from rising as sharply as they have over the last 10 years.— yobill626
- Hate to have to agree with DP but repeal does seem like a longshot. But perhaps the symbolism of trying to repeal it will redound to the Rs benefit. Hard to day.— pj katauskas
- Oops, meant hard to "say," not "day." But given the BO signing of the bill, that probably works too.— pj katauskas
- MOCKY: It was on CNN & MSNBC, but how could it happen if you didn't see it? .............. It's easy to see with eyes closed, misunderstanding all you see. ........... BTW, I like the successful-equals-right Conse 'Pub enjoying the fruits on his labors, while the phony stories are coming from extremist Lib blogs. Good one!! Break-no-sweat brilliance is your usual effortless best.— Talvenada
- Oh my internet life how gullible art thou? How easy would it be for the DNC to infiltrate the tea partiers and do such a thing? It's a bunch of average schmoes campaigning against government largesse. All you have to do is take a few left wing activists and have them pretend to be in the group and have them hurling racial insults then fram the entire movement as racist. It's actually rather simple.— Alvenada
- New Fox News Poll: 50% opposed, 40% very opposed, 30% extremely opposed. There you have it, 120% of the people are opposed. Case closed, Liberals.— pic man
- MOCKY: So, ALL situations of bad behavior are from Conse 'Pub enemies infiltrating the little old ladies of the tea parties, and causing ALL the raucous? Anybody who doesn't buy your thinking is gullible? LOL AND THEN SOME!!! MOCKY: Even YOU don't buy the bull you're slinging!! Yeah, The DNC is to blame. Everybody is to blame except CONSE 'PUBS!! Be thou O so holy, Conse 'Pub.— Talvenada
- Still - just wondering. It's been 5 hours and I haven't seen Obama sign the second fix it bill. You know the one that you said he would sign 5 minutes after the first health care bill. Did you have your facts wrong or were you intentional being misleading.— Mike Welbourn
- MOCKY: Tea parties being racists? It's real simple if you're white and against health care, you're a baby killer, while everybody else is wrong because they are not white and/or not straight. You can count on one hand the number of non-white and non-straight people in the millions of right-thinking Americans.— Talvenada
- I don't know Talvenada, sure sounds like a contrived incident to me. But hey, I was not there.— Alvenada
- Bob White, Non White, 100 Gay People, look over there it's a conse pub church steeple.— Alvenada
- MOCKY: Meant to say for Health Care, you're a baby killer.— Talvenada
- Talvenada: I just looked at the video. The only thing I can hear is people chanting " kill the bill " . This appears to be another bull**sh*t story from the Democrats in their incessant attempts to characterize people who do not agree with them as racists.— Alvenada
- MOCKY: It's 'Pub and not Pub. Pub is slang for Publican: the licensee of a public house. 'Pub is short for Repub, and it features an apostrophe, like 'bout for about, to replace a missing letter or letters at the beginning, middle or end of a word. Some words have 2 or 3 apostrophes to replace missing letters. Gov'm't for government.— Talvenada
- Alvenada, it's probably foolish for me to jump in here, as the hysteria here has been a bit over the top. But for what it's worth, Rep. Lewis is from Georgia, so the Atlanta stations ran a story this morning about this incident. Lewis commented on it. You can disbelieve if you want, but I think it happened.— NigeltheMastiff
- MOCKY: It isn't just one event, but MANY that I refer to. Yeah, you doubt because you didn't see. It doesn't matter because Conse 'Pubs aren't done by any means, and you can avoid it all you want until it's outside your front door, dude. It would have to be right in your face for you to even consider it, right? Maybe?— Talvenada
- Nigelthemastiff: I was able to find some video and I couldn't hear it. Watch the video and let me know if you can hear it. Just seems to me that this would be a very easy thing to pull off for the Democrats in an attempt to frame the opposition as racist. Demonstrating against runaway government spending has nothing to do with ethnicity so I don't quite understand why the left is always playing this card. Here is the video that I was able to find/////////////////////http://www.thefoxnation.com/health-care/2010/03/21/protestors-put-heat-pelosi-dems-historic-vote— Alvenada
- Outside my front door? Oh boy, I am going to get tea partiers outside my front door? They're like christmas carolers.— Alvenada
- frankfj : what about those getting advanced degrees? It's ironic that those trying to become doctors are "sponging" off of their parents. How about those that went into the military right after high school? They'd probably be in college at 26. Maybe those that actually had to work a few years to save some money. Lazy sponges, all of them.— still_independent
- Mike Welbourne - it's called hyperbole. At no point did Tom mention the time between the signing of the first bill and the second. He intentionally gave the impression that what the house passed exempted only unions. That was not the case. When union members aren't paying the tax and other are, please speak up ....— still_independent
- NIGEL: Thank you. Don't expect MOCKY to see or hear anything he doesn't want to see or hear. I don't. That would really be a surprise, because I doubt he'll see any video on Fox NEWS. If they don't report, you have nothing to decide. MOCKY: Why don't you google The Atlanta Journal-Constitution and see what's there. I didn't have to, and have no idea what you'll find. Or offer up more of your mindless drivel.— Talvenada
- NEPhilly: the best site I could find is linked below. I think some are legit and other aren't. The language seems way to modern in many of them. Anyway, ..... http://wiki.monticello.org/mediawiki/index.php/The_democracy_will_cease_to_exist— still_independent
- MOCKY: I just got it; you went to Fox NEWS. You didn't see it means it probably didn't happen. It's not on Fox NEWS means it probably didn't happen. It's real news like Fox NEWS, or MSM State-run propaganda. Sorry, I didn't realize what you were saying. Why didn't you just say so!— Talvenada
- It is just live video from Sunday. What does it matter if it is from Fox News or MSNBC? Why don't you produce some proof for once. You know I might have a more intelligent conversation with a snail.— Alvenada
- The USA Today did a two page spread on what takes effect when on this healthcare bill. It reads like who's who of how many different ways we can tax you. In 2011 a 2.5Billion dollar fee on Pharmaceutical mfgs will be implimented.. In 2012 the fee will increase by 3 billion for the next 3 years. In 2013 the medicare tax you see on your pay stub will be increased by .9% and 3.8% will be imposed on unearned income. In 2012 and annual fee of 8 billion will be assesed on Health insurance companies. In 2015 an annual fee on health insurance companies will be inceased to 11.3 billion. In 2014 the health insurance fines will be begin on families. Essentially the government will be raising the cost of insurance while forcing you to buy insurance. And those fees on Pharmaceutical companies and insurance companies are not only a tax on those companies but a tax on the American people. So essentially Obama lied when he told you that you would not be taxed one more dime if you made under $ 250,000- The tax on the insurance companies is a tax on you. How deceitfull- dare I say a questionable act?
- MOCKY: The prove-it defense from a guy who proves nothing, because he has more important things to do. ..........Lewis said he was leaving the Cannon office building across from the Capitol when protesters shouted “Kill the bill, kill the bill,” Lewis said. “I said ‘I’m for the bill, I support the bill, I’m voting for the bill’,” Lewis said. A colleague who was accompanying Lewis said people in the crowd responded by saying “Kill the bill, then the n-word.” ............. I know, the source doesn't meet your standards, or there's a sentence, phrase or word that makes you, as usual, right. ............. John Lewis hit with the 'n-word' by tea party demonstrators ... 03/21/2010 Mar 21, 2010 ... This was posted by McClatchy Newspapers last night: Demonstrators outside the US Capitol , angry over the proposed health care bill, ... http://blogs.ajc.com/political-insider-jim-galloway/2010/03/21/john-lewis-hit-wi...— Talvenada
- MOCKY: Thnx, for the intelligence insult, BTW.— Talvenada
- Tal: If there is video proof of this happening I sure cannot find it. I found this link. But the Video certainly does not show any evidence that the title of the article implies. If you've got 7 minutes the video is hysterical Ihttp://article.wn.com/view/2010/03/20/Tea_party_protesters_hurl_racial_insults_at_Georgia_Rep_John/— Alvenada
- Please play the "repeal care," please!— jack5225
- The propaganda will fade, and people will realize the catastrophe that some talked about isn't coming - no government officials getting between you and your doctor, no socialism, no death panels, no "end of America as we know it". People are going to realize how ridiculous all that talk was.— p-diddy
- MOCKY: You have to have video proof? Well, then it must not have happened.— Talvenada
- Tom: Imagine if Bush's idea for SS reform went through, and then the crash of 2008 came along. There'd be huge number of seniors wiped out. I agree that it needs to be reformed, but I don't think SS accounts should be replaced by 401k's until we get away from this boom-or-bust economy.— p-diddy
- The story says people were yelling racial insults. The video produces nothing other than protesters yelling " kill the bill " I just don't think it is helpfull to create a controversy. Just because people are protesting runaway government spending that does not make the racists. In my view the left acts in a very divisive manner by constantly trying to gin this stuff up.— Alvenada
- PDiddy: What if we just paid people back they money the paid in plus interest and stopped collecting the money from people's hard earned paychecks? Would not everyone be able to provide for themselves better and the government would save money because the would not need the adminstration to run the program in the first place.— Alvenada
- I think 25 yr olds should be allowed to be on their parents' insurance. This is not 1960. A college degree doesn't mean what it used to, and the type of temp jobs that job-seeking college grads might find to pass the time until they find a career-type position often don't provide insurance. Someone brought up the fact that people with only a HS diploma would have been working several years by the time they're 25. Agreed, but statistics show people with only a HS diploma make less. A lot of them are working at service industry jobs, which often don't provide insurance. The service industry, in fact, is the largest segment of the labor force - a scary thought, and indicative of the deeper problems facing the American economy.— p-diddy
- Alvenada: Because many people don't make that much, and we can't simply allow them to grow old in dire straights.— p-diddy
- MOCKY: You missed the point, as usual. It wasn't to say it was racist; it was to say the next step is a physical attack. It's an-I'm-right-and-you're-wrong disagreement to a shout down to insults on any kind (black, Mexican, gay, or white baby killer) to spitting to bricks thru windows to where? This is where we are now, and if this bill isn't repealed, what needs to be done to convince those who are wrong from Obama on down? A fist, a weapon, a burial? That's THE POINT!!!— Talvenada
- I'm shocked at how eager so many Americans are to have the government run their lives. What the hell is wrong with you people?— bobbyd24
- BOBBY: Be conservative or be wrong!!— Talvenada
- BOBBY: Long live George W. Bush!!!— Talvenada
- Alvenada, if you're really going to believe the incident was created by Democrats to make the Tea Party movement or conservatives look bigoted, then even if you saw a video with clear, understandable slurs, wouldn't you still think the people saying them were Democratic plants? You know, you can spend your life being paranoid and not believing anything that doesn't match your own bias, but that's a pretty unpleasant place to be.— NigeltheMastiff
- Nigelthemastiff: Sorry I just don't buy any of this. Did you watch any of the video?— Alvenada
- Oh, and Nigelthemastiff, for the record, trust me, when I tell you I am in no unpleasant place. Shall I write you a haiku?— Alvenada
- NIGEL: I didn't realize that MOCKY had all exits covered; he cannot possibly be wrong. He didn't see it, didn't see clear concise video, and if it's real, it's staged.— Talvenada
- NIGEL: MOCKY is doing great, but would be doing even better with Conse 'Pub control of The WH, SC, and super majorities in the house and senate. It doesn't matter if it's Cheney, Beck, Palin, Brown, McDonnell, and it doesn't matter what they do besides TAX CUTS FOR MOCKY AND CONSE 'PUBS!!— Talvenada
- NIGEL: Oh yeah, MOCKY wants the balanced budget spent on war, defense, strict enforcement of illegals, while cutting all unnecessary spending: health care, Medicare, Social Security, Unemply. & Welfare. He doesn't need HIS money wasted on deadbeats.— Talvenada
- Alvenada : first of all, that video was a hoot. I don't know who I enjoyed more, the guy in the "pink Nazi outfit" or the woman in the ridiculous red hat that had something red (and dead) perched on the front of it. Enjoyment aside, two comments. First, I have no idea why they used that clip that had ABSOLUTELY nothing to do with the story. However, saying that not one of the couple of dozen people on the clip shouted the "n word" as evidence that it didn't happen is pretty weak. I say this because a) it was only a few people, and b)it appeared to be taken at a completely different time. The Georgia congressman didn't appear to be around at the time the clip was taken. I agree that it's also not evidence that it DID happen. Second observation is that the tea baggers, who are supposedly bastions of constitutionality, seemed awfully intolerant of anyone of a differing opinion. They got to the point of physical intimidation, whether it was the hick in the cowboy hat screaming nose to nose at the pink nazi guy, the hat lady hitting the code pink woman's poster with her cowbell, or the anonymous guy sort of draping his banner over them. They seem no less hypocritical than the politicians they're angry with.— still_independent
- Still: The lady with the cowbell was hilarious. If you anyone else wants a laugh, please watch this video. It's almost like a Saturday Night Live skit. All laughs aside though the tea party movement is about issues with runaway govt. spending. The left is always trying to frame these people as racists instead of paying attention to their core issue. From the news coverage I saw I didn't see anything of the sort going on but if it did happen I don't think one bad apple should indict the entire tea party movement.— Alvenada
- Enjoyed your freelance piece Dick!— landscape
- MOCKY: FOX NEWS, DUDE!! ............ Updated March 21, 2010 Tea Party Leader, GOP Condemn Racial Slurs Hurled at Black Lawmakers FOXNews.com ............. Republican National Chairman Michael Steele and one of the organizers of Saturday's Tea Party rally strongly condemned the racial slurs that some black lawmakers alleged were yelled at them by some health care protesters as they headed for a procedural vote at Capitol Hill.— Talvenada
- The entire press had descended upon Capital Hill. No audio or visual of this occuring? Nancy Pelosi walking with the cave man sized gavel up the steps of Capital Hill with every camera from every news agency on the planet and not one person captures anything to verify these allegations? Sounds made up to me- oh well.— Alvenada
- Alvenada : no argument w/ any of that (especially the skit-ish aspect to the whole thing). As an aside, who are these people? And what does anyone think protesting in DC accomplishes, other than showing up on TV? MAYBE protests are effective on a local level, where congressmen are confronted by their constituents, whose vote they need, but en masse in DC?— still_independent
- MOCKY: Good News from Palin. Fox link @ MOCKY: www.foxnews.com/.../tea-party-leader-condemns-racial-slurs-hurled-black-lawmakers/ ........................PALIN: It's time to RELOAD; she has TARGETS (Dems)and a map with CROSSHAIRS!! She's for the freedom to carry Uzis!! And use if necessary. If not NOW, WHEN??— Talvenada
- STILL: It's national proof that 70% of America wants what Conse 'Pubs want. What Mocky wants! What George W. Bush wants. MOCKY: Fox NEWS made things up in that link I provided? YOU: Prove it! ME: the Fox link. YOU: Everything sounds made up to me. ............... Fox NEWS link sounds made up to you too? Or you couldn't be bothered? Had better things to do? Easier to say it's all made up?— Talvenada
- MOCKY: More news for you regarding throwing bricks thru Dem Offices. So far, only 3 in New York, 1 in Ohio, 1 in Ariz., and 1 in Kansas. The point is change your vote on health care to being AGAINST it, and they won't have to pick up their fire arms to get what they want. One threat to ASSASSINATE the children of Dems who vote for health care. They're meeting April 19th in DC, are you going Mocky? April 19th is the anniversary of The Branch Davidian fires and Tim McVeigh. The message is clear, don't MAKE us shoot you. All we ask is that you change your vote from for to against. Well, they are for FREEDOM for them. I'm not one of them, but you are, Mocky.— Talvenada
- Funny how the conservatives argue that we can't afford health care reform, but they had no problem pouring billions down the rat holes in Iraq and Afghanistan during Alfred E. Neumann's 2 terms. I would rather waste money helping out my fellow citizens than on poorly planned and executed foreign misadventures.— johngilb
- here here— p-diddy
- Uh, I mean hear, hear.— p-diddy
- with every camera from every news agency on the planet and not one person captures anything to verify these allegations? ....................... FOXNews.com ............. Republican National Chairman Michael Steele and one of the organizers of Saturday's Tea Party rally strongly condemned the racial slurs that some black lawmakers alleged were yelled at them by some health care protesters as they headed for a procedural vote at Capitol Hill.— Talvenada
- Interesting piece from the New York Times..."For all the political and economic uncertainties about health reform, at least one thing seems clear: The bill that President Obama signed on Tuesday is the federal government’s biggest attack on economic inequality since inequality began rising more than three decades ago.....Beyond the health reform’s effect on the medical system, it is the centerpiece of his deliberate effort to end what historians have called the age of Reagan..." So, maybe he was being honest when he spoke to Joe the Plumber.— tom - wilmington, de
- Tal, from your post, did you note the word "alleged"? Still no verifiable evidence that any of the slurs actually happened.— tom - wilmington, de
- One thing Obama has succeeded in doing that he promised on the campaign trail. He has brought this country together like never before. Yep, all that rancor and partisanship about which he spoke overcoming and erasing during the campaign is gone. Obama has really been a uniter....what a guy.— tom - wilmington, de
- John Gilb- you said " Funny how the conservatives argue that we can't afford health care reform, but they had no problem pouring billions down the rat holes in Iraq and Afghanistan"............ So are we now to excuse the quadrupling of deficits and expansion of the war in Afghanistan? This is the " all the other kids are doing it " excuse.
- I need to admit, I have seen the light. After re-reading the healthcare bill, and all the different media stories out there, and Polman's posts, I have come to realize this bill is not nearly as bad as I first believed. Therefore, I am going to petition my Congressmen to speed up the provisions in the bill. First, the Medicare tax on unearned income of 3.8%, that should start immediately to help pay for the bill. The tax on cadillac health plans of 40%, why not start it now. Since the bill brings down the deficit by more than $1 trillion over the next 20 years, just think what it would do if we started the taxes sooner? The tax on medical suppliers, everything from defibrillators to condoms, why not begin it now? I saw where a company that makes defibrillators, which grossed $10 million in 2008, said the tax will cost them $6 million. Oh well,just pass it on to the consumer..after all, the rich can afford it. Obama promised everyone would be saving $2,500 on their premiums, so that should start immediately, especially if we speed up when the taxes begin. The Medicare Advisory Panel, which will set what Medicare will cover and will become law, start it tomorrow. After all, we need to reduce those Medicare costs. Those hospitals with high re-admission rates, let's set those penalties now. The mandates to buy insurance? Start them immediately. I want the government to tell that family of four making $100,000 they need to spend $10-15,000 on a new health plan and oh yeah, they make to much to receive any subsidy. If this plan will insure 95% of Americans by 2019, and reduce the deficit by $1 Trillion if phased in over 10 years, just think how many more it will insure and how much more it will save if it is all begun immediately. Write your Congressman/woman. Start the healthcare now. After all, 123 people a day die due to a lack of health insurance. Lives are at stake.— tom - wilmington, de
- Still Independent- you asked " As an aside, who are these people? And what does anyone think protesting in DC accomplishes", They are people who don't have to shuttle their kids back and forth from sports practices and activities. Funny thing though is this question is only asked when people are assembling for a conservative cause. You wouldn't dare say this about the 200,000 man march ( called the million man march-marking the last time the park service did crowd estimations ) in Washington.
- For someone who has a healthcare plan now through their employer this bill drives up the cost. I'll use one of my customers as an example. I would estimate his salary at $ 60,000 a year plus his wife's salary of $ 30,000 a year. His monthly out of pocket contribution to his employer provided healthcare is $ 500 a month. With the increased taxes on medical products, pharmaceuticals, insurance companies, and mandates to accept people with prexisting conditions with no lifetime cap on benefits a person like this will no doubt see his insurance costs skyrocket. His employer is eventually going to drop their coverage all together. At that point this person will be forced to either pay the $ 2500 per year fine for no coverage or buck up and pay the $ 14,000 a year Obama plan. Essentially doubling this families health insurance costs.
- Obama says" this bill will not be Armageddon." Well sorry mr President, some of us are not your every day ordinary fools that gobble up anything you say as the gospel of truth. An intelligent person can see this bill will exaccerbate the very problem this bill was intended to resolve. This legislation - with its maze of mandates, dictates, controls, tax hikes and subsidies - pushes costs further in the wrong direction.
- During his presidential campaign, Obama repeatedly pledged "you will not see any of your taxes increase one single dime." Dare I say liar, liar, pants on fire? You just did sir. When you increase taxes on medical products manufacturers, pharmaceutical companies, and insurance companies you raised the tax on anyone who uses these services regardless of income. It's the deceitfull round about ways the government increases taxes that drives me crazy. And truth be told most people are so ill-informed they never call these polliticians to the carpet for it. I got my comcast bill yesterday the hidden taxes included a PPV Monthly State Assessment, Local Franchise Fee, NJ Sales Tax, Monthly State Assessment, FCC Regulatory Fee, Internet Monthly State Assesment, and a UCC Fee. You think you know what you pay in taxes? We all have no clue how much money they steal each year out of our wallets.
- this plan will insure 95% of Americans. Sure it will by mandating they buy insurance or face fines or imprisonment. Its absolutely going to be cost prohibitive for the family that makes around $ 100,000 a year.
- swede--re your sympathy for the $60,000 a year guy. Under the health-care system pre-reform, his healthcare costs have been going up for decades at a rate greater than inflation. No change there. Under the previous system, if he got seriously ill so he couldn't work, he would be faced with COBRA payments of the full premium and then when COBRA runs out he'd probably wouldn't be able to get new insurance because of the preexisting condition. So he and his family would lose everything in bankruptcy court. Are you going to tell me that this is a better system for this guy than the reform?— liberal
- As an observation regarding people who assemble in DC, we like to hit museums in DC and have been going for several years. Every time we've been down there, there's always several protests going on. I don't know if it's the aura of the Capitol of the U.S. or the possibility of TV coverage but there is always some group protesting. Conservative, liberal, and all the others are represented. It is the 1st ammendment in action. ---- Smike, the Pro-Life marches each year in January are always covered and people don't ask who they are.— JimR
Has Ross Limbergher bought his tickets to Costa Rica yet? I guess when he moves there as promised he'll enroll in Caja the CR governemt heathcare plan. Ross? Ross?- Republicans would have proposed a similar bill if they were in power, and liberals would have fought it as a giveaway to the insurance companies.— dartvader
- swedesboromike: yes, I did ask it at the time. What did the "Million Man" march accomplish? Was anyone's life improved one whit by it? No. Obviously, everyone has the right to peaceably assemble. But did you watch that clip? Forget about shuttling kids around. I seriously hope that none of the people in that clip even have kids. And I say that w/out a hint of sarcasm. .... Listen, if mutual, public m**turbation makes people feel like they accomplished something, then fine, have you protests. There are much, much better ways to spend your time and money to influence actual change.— still_independent
- JimR: ever been there when the Supreme Court is in session? Wow.— still_independent
- Still Independent- What can I say. I'm not going to defend the indefensible. Obviously people get carried away. Looks like the racous few were carrying the torch as most of the protester were just standing around. Ever see the crowd that shows up at the G8 summits? They are crazy X 4. As for the tea party movement I feel that if it brings the issue of government spending and government largesse to the forefront of politics then it will have accomplished something. It has been a silent majority for a very long time.
- Liberal- you said " Under the health-care system pre-reform, his healthcare costs have been going up for decades at a rate greater than inflation."............. The point I was making is that his costs are going to go up faster and higher than before. This just exacerbates the problem
- dartvader, were you asleep for the past year? Were you awake when the vote was taken and all republicans voted no?— PA_Dutch
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Cited by the Columbia Journalism Review as one of the nation's top political reporters, and lauded by the ABC News political website as "one of the finest political journalists of his generation," Dick Polman is a national political columnist at the Philadelphia Inquirer. He is on the full-time faculty at the University of Pennsylvania, as "writer in residence." Dick has been a frequent guest on C-Span, MSNBC, CNN, NPR and the BBC. He covered the 1992, 1996, 2000, and 2004 presidential campaigns.
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