Jonathan: Hi, here we are again on a Thursday lunch break when we should really be eating on expense account at Le Bec Fin.

Ellen: Yes, everyone knows how much time TV critics spend eating at French restaurants in the middle of the day. One of the lesser-known perks. But before anyone thinks they've wandered into Craig "Don't Show My Face" LaBan's weekly chat, let's take a question from the studio audience.

A: Have you seen anything interesting coming up on any of the old favorites? A lot of them seem to be getting boring

Jonathan: No pictures! No pictures!

Denny Crane: I adored the the season premiere of Boston Legal, my favorite show. John Larroquette is now in the office, sleeping with Murphy Brown, er, Candace Bergen. And the show had lots of music and fun.

Jonathan: That was really me. Don't get confused.

Ellen: Sadly, I missed the return of Legal. I think it's hard at this time of year for people to even remember when their old favorites are on, with all the noise being made about new ones. But I was pretty happy with the return of Heroes. Much better than the season finale, anyway. And it's not as if I ever believed the Petrelli brothers were really gone -- not after having run into them with the rest of the cast this summer in L.A.

Jonathan: Were you flying around, too?

Ellen: No, I try to keep my feet firmly planted around TV stars.

Jonathan: I TiVo'd Heroes, but haven't had a chance to watch it yet. Still trying to get all the new shows launched.

Suzanne: What did you think of the new Private Practice?

Jonathan: Hated it. If I hear sperm called "little swimmers" again, I think I may have to drown myself. And I don't think the all-star cast has a whole lot of chemistry.

Ellen: Men can be so sensitive about what you call their little swimmers. I thought it was better than that two-hour episode of Grey's last season where they introduced all these people. But not so much that I wanted to keep watching. I could change my mind. That's what you get to do when you're not obsessing about little swimmers and such.

Jonathan: That's all they ever talk about! It did well in the ratings, though, winning the time slot, though probably by not as much as ABC would like.

Jonathan: Bionic Woman looks like a hit.

Ellen: Especially since the numbers went up in the second half-hour -- didn't happen for Dirty Sexy Money (much as I like it) or Life, I think. People are sampling, then tuning out on some of these new ones. Second week numbers for Kid Nation were also down significantly, I think.

Jonathan: Yeah. I don't think Kid Nation lived up to the buzz.

Jonathan: And I love it, Ellen, that we have found a show to completely disagree on. Dirty Sexy Money is tommyrot and follderol!

Ellen: There's too much manipulation behind the scenes on Kid Nation. I don't think those kids would ever have gotten around to killing a chicken if the "journal" hadn't suggested it. And people who use words like tommyrot shouldn't make fun of primetime soaps.

Suzanne: The initial episode of Private Practice seemed slow and tedious. Even at the end with the "vote," Addison's speech didn't inspire any thoughts of rooting for her.

Ellen: I didn't see it in real time, but I heard from another critic that he'd heard (yes, there's a grapevine, and it's like playing telephone, but with actual telephones) that yet another critic had gotten a second version of the pilot last week in which Addison's speech was less wimpy than it first appeared to some of us. But if that's what they showed, perhaps it still wasn't not wimpy enough.

Ellen: And if you can follow that, you're better than I.

Jonathan: I can't even watch Grey's Anatomy. I can't imagine how anyone could watch *two* of them. And I have a hard enough time talking to you once a week, how can you stand talking to other TV critics?

Ellen: Hey, some of my best friends are TV critics.

Jonathan: Me, too. I just don't talk to them very much. I'm a hermit and a scrooge and just an old sit-at-home-in-my-underwear-and-watch-TV guy.

Ellen: TMI.

Ellen: WAY TMI.

Jonathan: Let me tell you about my underwear.....

A: Wait, did you say Bionic Woman looks like a hit? A ratings hit or a good show, too?

Ellen: Before Jon gets to the boxers or briefs question, let me just make it clear that hit is never about quality, though quality shows are occasionally hits, too.

Jonathan: I didn't think it was so hot, but there was so much buzz about it, and NBC made the pilot available on-line. And then 9.3 million people tuned in, and the audience got bigger as the hour went along. So that sounds like a hit.

Jonathan: I got bionic boxers.

Ellen: Yes, it does. And good for them. It's not my thing, either, but I have plenty of other things to watch.

Ellen: Of course you do.

Jonathan: I am always happy when a new show succeeds, no matter what it is, if it doesn't cut into the renewal chances of my faves.

Anne: I saw something amazing. Someone actually took a big offer on Deal or No Deal instead of being greedy and losing it all.

Jonathan: You mean they turned down the deal and then wound up with, like $5?

Jonathan: I thought they always took the big deal and didn't go for broke.

Jonathan: I would always go for it, though. Just being able to stand near Howie Mandel is a life-changing experience all by itself.

Ellen: And here you see another of our dirty little secrets: Most TV critics don't watch Deal or No Deal.

Jonathan: Sad, but true. But I will tell you I was positively hooked on Drew Carey's Power of Ten. How many men would give up hamburger if they had to kill the cow themselves?

Jonathan: Can't wait for Moonlight to fail so that show can come back.

Ellen: Sounds like the kind of question they're dealing with on Kid Nation.

Ellen: I'm kind of sad about Moonlight, because I liked Alex O'Loughlin when I met him this summer at this "ladies' lunch" that CBS threw to try to woo some female critics when they couldn't actually show us a pilot. If you saw my review today, you know that I wasn't swayed by Alex's offscreen personality (which is considerable), but it doesn't mean I don't feel bad that the show is so bad.

Jonathan: Moonlight becomes you, Ellen. But it's too bad this show is so talk-talk-talky. I can see why they would try to get all the gals to hang with Alex. A large number of the stay-home-Friday-gals are going to be tuning in just to stare at him. He's gorgeous. But why did they have change all the vampire rules?

Ellen: I thought that was silly, too -- the genre folks will be up in arms, and they're going to need those people. But it might be that they're just making a version of Ghost Whisperer -- one of their most successful bad shows -- but instead of showing us Jennifer Love Hewitt's cleavage in every scene, they're showing us Alex O'Loughlin instead.

Jonathan: Exactly. Maybe they'll show his cleavage, too.

Ellen: He has lovely eyes.

Ellen: But what they have him saying is really boring.

Jonathan: I think all the women on TV these days are cleavage crazy. Not that I'm complaining. Have you seen Survivor????

Ellen: I think it's good that they're not coming into contact with many actual Chinese people.

Jonathan: That would be some culture shock.

Ellen: Americans dress badly enough on vacation.

Peter: Maybe it's my low standards, or my being a sucker for backstory, but I liked Chuck, Journeyman and Life. NBC seems to have a pulse.

Ellen: A pulse is always a good thing, and I like Chuck, and like Life more than most critics seem to. Journeyman could get better -- the second episode did. I just don't know how much of an opportunity it's going to get.

Jonathan: Journeyman is awful. Life is all right, but I gave it short shrift because it's not good enough to attract an audience, I don't think, and the guy was too much like Vincent D'Onofrio. A little of him goes a long way.

Ellen: I think it probably helps that I stopped watching CSI years ago, and that I love Damian Lewis (who's part of the British invasion this fall, and doing better with the accent than some). Journeyman's Kevin McKidd, who some people may remember from Rome, is also part of the invasion, and he seems to be trying to sound as much as possible like Reed Diamond, who plays his brother (and who really does look enough like him to be his brother).

Jonathan: Oh no! Now I know you're nuts. CSI is soo-o-o exciting, what with Jorja Fox lying there pinned under her car all summer. I sure hope she gets out tonight!

Jonathan: NCISCSISVUCILOCSINY.

Ellen: You know, I actually mean CI (as in L&O: CI, which, as some of you know, is moving to USA for its first run this year). Though it's true that I don't much watch CSI, either. I admire the hell out of the thing, but I've pretty much stopped watching all these shows where women get cut to pieces all the time.

Jonathan: My favorite of them all is CSN&Y. They just sing, no cutting of women. Though David Crosby might shoot one of them accidentally.

Ellen: Pinning Jorja under a car seems to be the CSI equivalent of Law & Order's revolving door: It keeps costs down if actors know they can be killed off at any time. Though I keep hearing she's refusing to die.

Jonathan: She's so cool. Very important to that show, IMHO.

Ellen: I think it's important to remember that as packed as this week has been (and I have the dark circles under my eyes to prove it), next week brings more new shows, including my fave, Pushing Daisies. It also brings Cavemen, which I now hear we won't be getting a screener for, ABC having perhaps decided that we're not worthy to judge this one.

Jonathan: Ugh. No screener Cavemen! Not good!

Jonathan: And I'm also upset that your fave is my fave. I love Pushing Daisies, too. Probably means it will last a week.

Ellen: We've killed more shows with kindness than with bad reviews.

Jonathan: I think you're right. And probably anybody who would actually watch Cavemen wouldn't be reading newspapers anyway.

Ellen: Maybe what ABC is really afraid of is that the new pilot is so much better than the old one that we'll all LOVE Cavemen and give it great reviews and it will die a horrible death.

Jonathan: Yeah. Those jerks *like* Cavemen? I'm not watching that!

Ellen: If I were one of those people who actually lived to kill TV shows (and believe it or not, I'm not), I might just review the Geico commercials instead. I love the Geico commercials, and writing favorably about the show as if it was like the commercials (which so far it doesn't appear to be) might result in its extinction.

Jonathan: I like all their new commercials, too.

Jonathan: Still, I ain't buying insurance from a Caveman or a lizard.

Ellen: I know. If the gecko were selling something I wanted....

Jonathan: If you want to insure a good time, tune back here again next week at the same time. We'll be all lathered up and ready to chat some more.

Ellen: Lathered up? Again, TMI, Jon. TMI. But I'll be back next week. Maybe I'll bring paper towels.