Two developers who hope to change the face of Manayunk with their proposed high-end restaurants run by top-notch chefs received a cool reception at a meeting of the Manayunk Neighborhood Council Oct. 7.

Richard Rivera and Robert Nydick, partners in the Belvedere Business Group, have a plan to bring two new eateries to Main Street: One, an Italian-style small plate restaurant/wine bar, the other, a "no-holds-barred" barbecue joint.

The developers, who have purchased a property at 4359 Main St., the former storefront serving as their office, envision the businesses, with their well-respected chefs and operators, as helping Manayunk maintain its position as a place known for fine dining.

But while the businessmen, and their restaurateurs, aim to draw a new, upscale clientele with their offerings, neighborhood council members appear leery at fighting fire with fire.

"Forget about what was, and what could have been," Rivera said. "We're trying to be part of the solution, not the problem."

The problem for civic leaders has been what they view as an overabundance of drinking establishments in downtown Manayunk, something that has led to quality-of-life problems. The MNC seems to have reached a boiling point, whereby any new business proposals that include alcohol are viewed as undesired.

"As a resident of Main Street, I cannot support anything that will not remediate the issues that I have," said MNC member Hilary Langer. "I don't hear anything (in your proposal) that's making the situation better in the neighborhood. You have a business here, but I have to live here."

Langer's issue, which others echoed, has to do with a desired liquor license for Agiato, the Euro-style cafe/wine bar, and a possible beer-only license for Rubb, the restaurant poised to sell so-called "punk rock style barbecue" created by well-renowned chef Matt Levin.

Residents like Langer worry that more alcohol will only exacerbate the neighborhood's problems, which have included noise, litter and other quality-of-life issues.

But Rivera and Nydick see things differently. Bringing two high-end restaurants to the community, they claim, will actually help offset the problems caused by corner bars catering to younger, potentially destructive crowds. The idea, they said, is to sort of raise the bar for Manayunk, since opening two places like these may lure in similar types of businesses down the road.

"We're not trying to take an adversarial position. It's not that we don't understand why you feel the way you do," Rivera said. "We are investing in a community, in a chef, in a concept, in a location."

The main points of contention at last week's meeting were hours of operation and liquor licenses. MNC members want the restaurants to close around 11 p.m.; the developers want their investments to have the option to remain open until 2 a.m. It's only fair, they say, since establishments are granted that same courtesy.

"There's an opportunity down here, and we'd like to reserve the right to capitalize on that opportunity," Nydick said on why he is hesitant about entering into an agreement with the MNC at this juncture. "It's going to be a dynamic schedule because we don't know what opportunities are going to be presenting themselves."

Rivera had similar reservations, saying, "To have it carved in stone and written in blood, today, makes me sort of uncomfortable."

As for the booze, the developers assured residents these would not be your average bars - far from it. Agiato will most likely only serve wine, to compliment the meals, which will include Panini-type sandwiches and small dishes using locally grown foods and gourmet meats and cheeses. Rubb may not even serve alcohol. If they do opt for drinks at the barbecue place, it will probably just be beer, but that decision will be made down the road.

Nydick said he lived on Main Street for two years, and "I understand the problems. I understand the nuisance bars." He said the diners they're looking to attract, at Agiato in particular, are more "upscale," such as a more mature crowd from areas like the Main Line.

Nydick and Rivera said the focus at both places will be the food, and not the booze. Besides, the small spaces wouldn't be conducive to throngs of young drunk people.

"It's a small property, only 30 seats," Joe Scarpone, who will be head chef at Agiato, said of the restaurant, which will be located at 4359 Main St., Belvedere's current office.

Rivera said that property is 885 square feet, 425 of which won't even be used for seating. Furthermore, Rivera pointed out that the restaurant could have moved into an existing space with a liquor license on Main Street by-right, but his team opted for the smaller space, precisely to appease neighbors.

Rubb's space, slated for 4445 Main St., is similarly small, and wouldn't cater to a large crowd, they said. That building is 600 square feet of "raw space," Rivera said, 400 of which will not be for seating.

Both restaurants would be open seven days a week. Rubb would be open from 11 a.m. to 2 a.m., while Agiato would be open from 7 a.m. to 2 a.m.

While civic members were leery about the late hours, Scarpone pointed out that his former restaurant in Northern Liberties, Sovalo, usually closed around 10:30 or 11 at night, even though it had the option to go until 2 a.m. The point, he said, is that the market should drive the operating hours, not civic members.

Nevertheless, when it came time for a vote, civic members stuck to their guns. The restaurant proposals were voted on separately. The MNC agreed, in a close 5-4 vote, to support Agiato, even with a liquor license, so long as it would agree to close at 11 p.m. It also agreed to support Rubb, as long as it closes at 11 p.m., and vows not to seek out a liquor license.

While the MNC was a tough sell, at least one local business came out in support of the restaurants. Gary and Norma Mann, who run Gary P. Mann Design, a jewelry shop on Main Street, said they would like to see more businesses of this type on the commercial strip.

"I feel very strongly we have two really great chefs who have come to Main Street," Norma said. "Manayunk is at a crossroads. We've gotten good buzz from this. I'm personally very excited about having a great restaurant on my block. I hope that there's some (compromise) because it's great for Main Street."

Rivera pointed out that Sovalo, Scarpone's previous restaurant in Northern Liberties, was supported by that neighborhood's civic association, and never viewed as a nuisance in its three years of operation.

Reporter Jon Campisi can be reached at 215-354-3038 or jcampisi@phillynews.com